Siri Protocol Cracked, But Unique iPhone 4S ID Requirement Hampers Distribution

[KnightWRX]

Siri involves a ton of licensed software. Do you have any proof that this software is legally licensed to (or payed for by) Apple for use on anything other than a 4s?

If there is no license, than anyone can argue that it is illegal for this software to work on anything other than a 4s.

That's not a technical limitation, which was the point of the whole subthread you're replying to.

 

[subsonix]

They did, they also gave it a new case. And a new name : iPhone 4S. Stop being obtuse.

I know they did, that isn't the point is it? It's to show you that in this case, your definition of a technical limitation can be transfered to a economical limitation, in that sense they are the same. Technical limitations can be solved by throwing more hardware and cash on the problem. Customers of the 4s payed more, so they get more technological resources, both on and of the device, why make the distinction, that is my point.

 

[KnightWRX]

I know they did, that isn't the point is it? It's to show you that in this case, your definition of a technical limitation can be transfered to a economical limitation, in that sense they are the same. Technical limitations can be solved by throwing more hardware and cash on the problem. Customers of the 4s payed more, so they get more technological resources, both on and of the device, why make the distinction, that is my point.

Where is the face palm guy...

 

[subsonix]

Where is the face palm guy...

That's a very convincing argument! I think I have to change my mind.

 

[KnightWRX]

That's a very convincing argument! I think I have to change my mind.

You're just not understanding the conversation at all. There is no technical limitation that prevents the 3GS from running Siri.

 

[subsonix]

You're just not understanding the conversation at all. There is no technical limitation that prevents the 3GS from running Siri.

First of all, you don't know that for a fact, but that aside. Part of siri relies on a server backend service that is not included, that is a technical limitation that will prevent it from running. My point was why make the distinction, it was not about the device it was an attempt to get the discussion past that point (see post #176).

 

[firewood]

No argument there. That's really not germane to the last several posts where the discussion centered around technical issues.

Technical issues are about as relevant as unicorns if some of the software or services required aren't legally licensed by Apple.

Technically, Apple could also provide you full download access to any music, movie or app in iTunes for free. They're not going to do that.

 

[samcraig]

Technical issues are about as relevant as unicorns if some of the software or services required aren't legally licensed by Apple.

Technically, Apple could also provide you full download access to any music, movie or app in iTunes for free. They're not going to do that.

Speaking of unicorns. Next time you post - can it be relevant to the topic/sub-topic.

It's possible a puppy could fall from the sky and speak perfect english while juggling three iPhones and reciting the gettysburg address.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

First of all, you don't know that for a fact, but that aside. Part of siri relies on a server backend service that is not included, that is a technical limitation that will prevent it from running. My point was why make the distinction, it was not about the device it was an attempt to get the discussion past that point (see post #176).

and we have ask multiple time provide some logical reason for that.

So far all signs point to the phone does nothing. There are zero signs that there are technical reason for the block. Everything is point to Apple is doing a software block.

 

[samcraig]

and we have ask multiple time provide some logical reason for that.

So far all signs point to the phone does nothing. There are zero signs that there are technical reason for the block. Everything is point to Apple is doing a software block.

And we're not arguing that it's right/wrong/we want this/we don't wan't that.

We're merely stating the facts that exist. Why is this so hard for people to swallow?

 

[KnightWRX]

Part of siri relies on a server backend service that is not included, that is a technical limitation ...

Of the 3GS ? How is a server backend service a technical limitation of the handset ?

See, you seem to be confused about the actual discussion here... Maybe you want to re-read through the thread now. I'll stop responding to you until you get your bearings here.

 

[subsonix]

and we have ask multiple time provide some logical reason for that.

So far all signs point to the phone does nothing. There are zero signs that there are technical reason for the block. Everything is point to Apple is doing a software block.

None of us have that information at hand, which is why it's indications at best, no proofs in any strict sense at all. Apart from a straight translation, other parts required relates to AI and Natural Language Processing (NLP for short) among other things, how and where this part of siri runs is not known, but most likely on the device. Note, that I'm not saying that it can't run on any other device than a 4s or equivalent any more than I say that it can. I prefer to leave it open.

 

[VictorWI]

ya i tested it out in an AT&T store, didn't work as well as the google version it couldn't connect to the server, then it kept lagging and doing the wrong thing.

Compared to my Android before getting the 4S there is no comparison. Siri is by far better.

 

[shandyman]

If your point(s) are reasonable - so are those that disagree with you. Since you can't state for a fact that Siri won't work on other devices (notice I said FACT) - then both possibilities are plausible. Yet you only want to acknowledge one. Do you even know the definition of denial?

the only facts we have is that it works on a few occasions. Thats it. show me evidence that someone has had it running with a normal daily usage for even 2 weeks without any issues and i'll agree. until someone does that, then we have no idea for certain if there is some unforseen technical issue that apple discovered whilst they did thorough testing that obviously no-one in the real world has actually done. As i and others have said, currently we cannot 100% confirm why Apple left it out and that's all i'm trying to convey, but you and the others on your side are so much in denial you cannot admit that it's still not certain either way.

As for entitlement - I think you're reading too much into it. No one (or at least the ones discussing this with you specifically) is arguing that they are entitled to Siri or even WANT Siri. That's a leap in logic/namecalling which is ridiculous. Just because we argue that it's possible doesn't mean we want it. We are saying there's no reason for it not to be on other devices. That's a statement. Show me where I (or others arguing this with you) have said "And I want Siri on my device" or something even remotely similar.

where did i name you when i made that comment? i didn't. i was making a general comment in response to others in this thread, but if you think it's aimed at you, maybe you have a guilty conscience...

Bad analogy - but I expect nothing else. Try arguing your point without one. You can't. And you're incorrect. Siri has been show to work 100% as it's supposed to in the latest demos. So either you're making stuff up - or you haven't done your research. And it's funny to see you call us defensive. Especially after you claim you're done with this thread and then keep coming back to DEFEND yourself

You're only calling it a bad analogy cos it proves you wrong.... i didn't bring any analogy into my argument until then, i debated my side fine til then, but since other people were bringing such bad analogies in (even admitted as such) i thought i would too for chits and giggles, your side brought analogies in first and you're digging at me about it?! haha.

only reason i'm still in this thread is cos i am stuck in hospital longer than i thought and been a bit bored, but you picking on that just shows desperation dude....

Who made you the arbiter of what is enough testing to "prove" it works or doesn't. Here's a hint. Nobody. If the testing isn't enough for you - so be it. But that doesn't mean the tests aren't valid.

the tests just prove it works a few times, not enough to prove it works in normal daily use. but you seem to miss this very crucial and my main point.

And the Antenna issue was a PERFECT example to counter your comment about how Apple would have done extensive testing and KNOWN that Siri would or wouldn't work on other devices. Newsflash - Apple isn't infallible. And you also have zero proof that they tested Siri on other devices and found it to NOT work.

no it's not. nowhere near the perfect example. Apple had all the factors to test Siri in their labs, they did not have all the factors for the antenna issue as their campus obviously has perfect full signal strength and their field testing was done in cases to disguise it, so explain how that is the perfect example compared to Siri? The fact Apple has all the devices, it's more logically that they did test it on older devices, unless you're a conspiracy nut....

Notice all those features were already announced. Feature freeze was in effect when that first Beta shipped. iOS Betas are rolled out in phases for the developer release. That is concentrate testing on key areas instead of one big package (an OS distribution is huge compared to an application like Siri). Internally, the Beta already had all of those, they didn't just write the code then and there as they added those features to the subsequent Betas. They send out subsets so that testing is much more efficient and so is bug reporting. If they shipped out a full release, they'd spread out the reports and testing and might miss more bugs.

Also Beta means feature complete.

Beta testing does not mean everything is turned on. For iOS 5 for example if you noticed everything was feature complete. They just turned items on after testing was completed in beta.

Provide evidence that there could be a possible slow down in older devices. Nothing found out so far points to that conclusion. All signs point to the iPhone is just a being a recording device that sends the audio to Apple servers to all the work.
There have been zero signs to possible device issues. The worse thing I can see siri doing is it starts building a file storing some information. But that type of searching is pretty easy to do and very quick as it would be index and in some type of order making it a cake walk to jump threw.

really? so custom SMS, Email and other alert tones, they were all announced before? oh wait, they weren't. Also, if Siri was feature complete for beta, how is it that there's new features for Siri in 5.1 with the hardware controls that are coming, that weren't announced when Siri was announced.....

Also these new hardware controls for Siri are pointing towards more local based dealings for Siri, such as turning wifi on and off. Not solid evidence, but it's just showing that my comments are not baseless....

 

[samcraig]

the only facts we have is that it works on a few occasions. Thats it. show me evidence that someone has had it running with a normal daily usage for even 2 weeks without any issues and i'll agree. until someone does that, then we have no idea for certain if there is some unforseen technical issue that apple discovered whilst they did thorough testing that obviously no-one in the real world has actually done. As i and others have said, currently we cannot 100% confirm why Apple left it out and that's all i'm trying to convey, but you and the others on your side are so much in denial you cannot admit that it's still not certain either way.


where did i name you when i made that comment? i didn't. i was making a general comment in response to others in this thread, but if you think it's aimed at you, maybe you have a guilty conscience...



You're only calling it a bad analogy cos it proves you wrong.... i didn't bring any analogy into my argument until then, i debated my side fine til then, but since other people were bringing such bad analogies in (even admitted as such) i thought i would too for chits and giggles, your side brought analogies in first and you're digging at me about it?! haha.

only reason i'm still in this thread is cos i am stuck in hospital longer than i thought and been a bit bored, but you picking on that just shows desperation dude....



the tests just prove it works a few times, not enough to prove it works in normal daily use. but you seem to miss this very crucial and my main point.


no it's not. nowhere near the perfect example. Apple had all the factors to test Siri in their labs, they did not have all the factors for the antenna issue as their campus obviously has perfect full signal strength and their field testing was done in cases to disguise it, so explain how that is the perfect example compared to Siri? The fact Apple has all the devices, it's more logically that they did test it on older devices, unless you're a conspiracy nut....

Let's get this straight. YOU are the one that isn't convinced. Not WE. You understand the difference right? Because you keep saying we when you really mean you.

I have no guilty conscience because I didn't think you were talking about me specifically. I was replying in general. But since you're so interested in trying to transfer your feelings of denial, frustration and desperation on us, I can understand how you might get confused.

Apple could have tested the iPhone 4 in the real world. They chose not to. There's a big difference. You are the one that brought up that you were sure Apple tested Siri extensively and must have found it not possible to work on other devices. How can you "trust" their testing methods so easily and their results based their marketing of Siri. Clearly they have show that their testing methods are not always perfect. And I wouldn't expect them to be.

They also discovered that their algorithm for figuring out how many bars to display was wrong. Really? After a few years they just discovered that?

Believe what you want. Seriously. I'm not going to try and "convert" you. So please do me the same courtesy.

And naturally I know where you are because you're one of my friends and I have "find my friends" locating you. Of course I know you're in a hospital. Of course I meant it deliberately as an "attack." It had NOTHING to do with the fact that you, yourself stated you weren't coming back into this thread.

Wow.

 

[firewood]

Speaking of unicorns. Next time you post - can it be relevant to the topic/sub-topic.

Whether Apple can legally download the result of some part of Siri's processing (voice recognition?) is perfectly relevant as to whether they can enable some data operation in their data center. Just like iTunes.

 

[shandyman]

I have no guilty conscience because I didn't think you were talking about me specifically. I was replying in general. But since you're so interested in trying to transfer your feelings of denial, frustration and desperation on us, I can understand how you might get confused.

if you knew i was saying it in general, why did you pick up on it and start spouting about me 'namecalling'?! my guilty conscience comment was just a jibe since you seem to take it so personally that you had to specifically reply to that point.

Apple could have tested the iPhone 4 in the real world. They chose not to. There's a big difference. You are the one that brought up that you were sure Apple tested Siri extensively and must have found it not possible to work on other devices. How can you "trust" their testing methods so easily and their results based their marketing of Siri. Clearly they have show that their testing methods are not always perfect. And I wouldn't expect them to be.

they tested it in the real world, just within a case as Apple is big on secrecy, there's bound to be variables they cannot account for, as no-one is perfect, the reason why i "trust" they tested Siri compared to the antenna more is cos the problem with the antenna was a fluke that no-one would have thought of, but testing siri on older devices is kind of an obvious thing to do, unlike testing an antenna for if someone touches it and bridges the bands....

I'm not saying that Siri was limited to the 4S as a selling feature like the other devices before it had exclusive features that should have worked on older devices. I'm just saying that some random messing around for a short period is not a viable test for daily use. this is a perfectly reasonable point, why on earth are you so against it?!

And naturally I know where you are because you're one of my friends and I have "find my friends" locating you. Of course I know you're in a hospital. Of course I meant it deliberately as an "attack." It had NOTHING to do with the fact that you, yourself stated you weren't coming back into this thread.

i said i wasn't coming back when i thought i was leaving hospital as i had no time to bother replying once out, i was just explaining that i came back to this thread after that cos i am stuck in with little to do and this thread was slightly amusing, that's all. Just explaining my reason for changing my mind, since you decided to pick on it, so i explain myself and you turn it into me accusing you of attacking me? wow, you really are getting very defensive aren't you! Didn't you say a few months ago you never agreed with what i said and didn't want to see my posts or reply to me again so you were blocking me? you really saw that thru.....

 

[Rodimus Prime]

really? so custom SMS, Email and other alert tones, they were all announced before? oh wait, they weren't. Also, if Siri was feature complete for beta, how is it that there's new features for Siri in 5.1 with the hardware controls that are coming, that weren't announced when Siri was announced.....

Also these new hardware controls for Siri are pointing towards more local based dealings for Siri, such as turning wifi on and off. Not solid evidence, but it's just showing that my comments are not baseless....

The fact that Custom SMS, and email (along with other alert tones) you some how think is a feature is a joke. Sorry that not exactly a real feature. Really all it is adding another place for it to look for a list of files. Total lines of code to that is 1 maybe 2 lines of code but really it is not anything. All that is added is a string to tell it to look in another location/


As for hardwrae controls you listed. Sorry are just software things not hardware. Siri is able to access the settings menu on the phone and make changes. BOY that is REALLY hard to do. I guess that is the reason why only the 4S can turn on and off blutooth and Wifi.

Give you a hint. Here is the SINGLE line of code required to turn on (or off wifi)
to turn off wife.
Wifi.enable = false

to turn on wifi

Wifi.enable = true

That is all that done on Apple iOS code. It is something to change a Boolean variable to true or false.

Now they could have the setting part marked as private so outside Apps can not mess with it. They can get its current value but that does not change the fact that those are single line of code changes.

So yet again you have provided ZERO evidence that the phone is any more than just a recording device. Siri receives commands back from Apple's servers to tell it what to do.

Your argument is grasping at straws.

 

[samcraig]

cos the problem with the antenna was a fluke that no-one would have thought of, but testing siri on older devices is kind of an obvious thing to do, unlike testing an antenna for if someone touches it and bridges the bands....


Didn't you say a few months ago you never agreed with what i said and didn't want to see my posts or reply to me again so you were blocking me? you really saw that thru.....

A fluke? really? No one would have/could have seen how testing an antenna without real world usage was an error? You're arguing that you want real world usage data for Siri - but you're ok that Apple failed to test the antenna in real world conditions because who could have foreseen it? APPLE should have foreseen it. LOL

And I don't believe I said that. I haven't blocked anyone on here because I think that's pretty lame. I have the ability to not respond to someone if I don't want to. I don't need to "censor" my viewing experience. Maybe you're thinking of someone else. And if it was me - I'd love you to link me to the post because I really have no such recollection. The "you really saw thru with that" comment is going to come back to haunt you though, if you're wrong

 

[shandyman]

The fact that Custom SMS, and email (along with other alert tones) you some how think is a feature is a joke. Sorry that not exactly a real feature. Really all it is adding another place for it to look for a list of files. Total lines of code to that is 1 maybe 2 lines of code but really it is not anything. All that is added is a string to tell it to look in another location/


As for hardwrae controls you listed. Sorry are just software things not hardware. Siri is able to access the settings menu on the phone and make changes. BOY that is REALLY hard to do. I guess that is the reason why only the 4S can turn on and off blutooth and Wifi.

Give you a hint. Here is the SINGLE line of code required to turn on (or off wifi)
to turn off wife.
Wifi.enable = false

to turn on wifi

Wifi.enable = true

That is all that done on Apple iOS code. It is something to change a Boolean variable to true or false.

Now they could have the setting part marked as private so outside Apps can not mess with it. They can get its current value but that does not change the fact that those are single line of code changes.

So yet again you have provided ZERO evidence that the phone is any more than just a recording device. Siri receives commands back from Apple's servers to tell it what to do.

Your argument is grasping at straws.

technically it's classed as a feature. but ok, not a major one. there's probably more relevant examples out there, but i really cannot be bothered.

as for Siri, people have been harping on that the device is just a recording device and no processing is done on the phone, now you're changing the facts to say oh it's going to do some processing, but it's only minimal?!

Also you're just totally making up what you THINK Siri will do with this new hardware control feature. Which i only said hint's that there may be more local processing involved, i'm not stating a fact, but it makes sense that Siri should do local based processing of commands for hardware, especially since turning wifi off will possible disable Siri if you're in a poor area... I could be wrong, but just saying that it makes sense that it's going that way, which in turn points to a possible reason why it's 4S only and not 4 or 3GS as the 4S has more power. But like i have said since i brought up the new hardware features for siri that are supposedly coming in 5.1, this is purely logical speculation, that even others in the thread about 5.1 are talking about.

If it's all server side, then why is 5.1 needed to bring in the hardware features otherwise?

A fluke? really? No one would have/could have seen how testing an antenna without real world usage was an error? You're arguing that you want real world usage data for Siri - but you're ok that Apple failed to test the antenna in real world conditions because who could have foreseen it? APPLE should have foreseen it. LOL

And I don't believe I said that. I haven't blocked anyone on here because I think that's pretty lame. I have the ability to not respond to someone if I don't want to. I don't need to "censor" my viewing experience. Maybe you're thinking of someone else. And if it was me - I'd love you to link me to the post because I really have no such recollection. The "you really saw thru with that" comment is going to come back to haunt you though, if you're wrong

they did test it, just in a case, the problem was caused by using without a case and usually in an area of less than perfect signal, since the apple campus and the surrounding area will have such a strong signal, it would be hard to test, so yes, it's a fluke.

you did, you got quite worked up in arguing against me that the argument got deleted from the thread, but i recognise the name well enough to know, but i think you knew that it got deleted so you can try and show me up....

 

[samcraig]

you did, you got quite worked up in arguing against me that the argument got deleted from the thread, but i recognise the name well enough to know, but i think you knew that it got deleted so you can try and show me up....

No. I am 99.99999 percent sure you're wrong. Because, again - I haven't ever put anyone on ignore. And believe me - there are people who would be on that list WAY before you if I did.

There's no conspiracy. You are giving me too much credit there LOL

 

[28monkeys]

bad idea.

 

[KnightWRX]

really? so custom SMS, Email and other alert tones, they were all announced before? oh wait, they weren't.

Oh wait ...

*SPOILER* : look at the right, 4th from the top.

I'll be expecting that apology now. Damn those small characters, first they screw us out of money on car purchases, now they screwed you out of winning this argument.

 

[shandyman]

Oh wait ...

*SPOILER* : look at the right, 4th from the top.

I'll be expecting that apology now. Damn those small characters, first they screw us out of money on car purchases, now they screwed you out of winning this argument.

That just says 'set tone' not custom ringtone. Close but no cigar.

Plus nice to see you're totally ignoring Siri getting new features in iOS 5.1, which people claimed wouldn't happen as since it is in beta it was 'feature complete', so, taking a leaf from your book, where's the apology from those who were adamant of betas being 'feature complete' like you and Rodimus?!

 

[KnightWRX]

That just says 'set tone' not custom ringtone. Close but no cigar.

There's that denial again. Why I am not surprised.

No matter how much you don't want it to be, that is the feature you were gloating over. Even when proof is shoved right in front of you, you'll ignore it if it makes you wrong.

It's ok to be wrong. What makes you the bigger man is accepting it.