Siri Protocol Cracked, But Unique iPhone 4S ID Requirement Hampers Distribution

[mjtomlin]

It's funny all the arm chair quarterbacks and back seat drivers posting here.

Sorry, but unless you work at Apple and are on the Siri team, I seriously doubt you know Apple's intentions with the software. Meaning how it works now and how it's supposed to work when it is finally released. Just because a few people have hacked the current beta onto other devices doesn't mean that it will in the future work on those devices.

For all we know, the A5 could in fact contain a DSP unit which could enable local speech recognition.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

For all we know, the A5 could in fact contain a DSP unit which could enable local speech recognition.

already proven that it is not required.
Plus testing for Siri was originally done on the iPhone 4 which runs on an A4.

Right now all signs point to Apple is pulling the block off to give the iPhone 4s a reason to sell. That speaks volumes that they (Apple) does not feel that the 4s has enough over the 4 to sell so they had to come up with a another BS.

With the 3GS to 4 there was legit hardware difference (retina display) and face time was completely understable as it was a hardware issue.

 

[ScottishCaptain]

Lol this thread is so full of self righteousness.

I personally couldn't care less about Siri, but I would like to say to all the folks who "paid for the right to use Siri" by purchasing a 4S -- Did you pay any more than the folks who purchased a 4? Were both the 4 and 4S not starting at $199 upon release? Just wondering where that extra Siri payment is, and if thats the case then would you still be bitter if Apple charged a small one time fee for all other iDevices to access Siri?

I bought a car a while ago. It cost me around $27K.

Then they came out with a new car that has a hybrid engine in it.

Where is my hybrid engine? Why don't I get one now? Both cars sold for ~$27K originally.

-SC

 

[RobHague]

Why stop at Siri? The iPhone 4 and 4S cases are the same. Apple should give iPhone 4 users a walk in upgrade to an 8MP sensor too. There is no technical reason why not after all.

 

[E4tH]

Why stop at Siri? The iPhone 4 and 4S cases are the same. Apple should give iPhone 4 users a walk in upgrade to an 8MP sensor too. There is no technical reason why not after all.

Are you being sarcastic or serious?

 

[nerdhunter]

Bought an ApplePlus in '88, followed by a $12,000 AppleIIe in '90.
That huge expense started my DTP career and was worth it.
Been upgrading ever since with mostly positive results. (***** the Cube, BTW).

When it comes to creating better and more effective products, iPhone4S is but a pit-stop autograph session, fulfilling the cleverly manufactured need to upgrade.

Long-time loyal users can't be surprised by this dilution of innovation over profit margin. I do feel however, that I've earned the right to call bizuulshite.
Whatever that's worth.

 

[Skoal]

ya i tested it out in an AT&T store, didn't work as well as the google version it couldn't connect to the server, then it kept lagging and doing the wrong thing.

Google version? LOL ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Your hilarious!

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[/COLOR]I'm sorry, but Android is the biggest piece of bollocks since...the last piece of bollocks. The whole platform was and is still being designed with stolen ideas from Apple that they weren't clever enough to develop themselves.

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is that why apple stole android's notification dropdown and took from samsung's addon's to form their own? or how apple took the grid ui from phones that existed already rather than invent a new ui like android... I get it jobs says apple invented everything and u believe it fine but your spewing false info. apple is really good at marketing but they didn't invent everything hell even on mac that launchpad thing was swiped from ubuntu as were several things in osx but apple markets best so no one questions it...

fact is siri is not needed on android, android has its own solutions but i do know this if google developed a killer app for android they work so it could run on older phones or allow the rom cookers to develop a version for older phones and not have any problem with it. apple expects everyone to pay the apple tax plus extra so they can get paid that is fine but they are purposely giving users the shaft...

i just got a mac mini 2gb's of ram upgraded to lion started getting lockups and freezes apple wants 500 extra bucks for 8 gigs of ram... went on amazon 8gb's cost me 47 bucks now my mac mini runs smooth...apple makes great products but lets not pretend they are perfect and don't screw the user for extra money whereas other companies don't. no company is perfect and they all screw users in some way and they all take from someone elses idea to make it their own, apple included.

So is this why there is a new Android phone every damn day? Because they care about you and don't wanna rip you off! Google cares about you? haha! Your kidding yourself.

 

[divinox]

"fragmentation"

The newest most over used and least understood word on the internets.

When people refer to Android fragmentation, they refer to the fact that there are several versions of Android being used on brand spanking new devices being sold today. Not only that, the latest and greatest Android can't even run on phones, only tablets.

There is only 1 version of iOS installed on all new Apple devices. Some devices may have more FEATURES, which allow Apple to charge a premium over another model.

So, having multiple/additional features does not fragment a platform, having multiple versions of the OS on the market does.

I was joking you know.

p.s. my gf bought a new iPad2. it ran iOS4. just saying.

 

[divinox]

Even more overused and misunderstood than the word "ecosystem"?

Hint: "ecosystem" is newspeak for "walled garden".

I don't speak newspeak, but i am quite fluent in academic hype. according to research, an ecosystem need not be walled. I won't state that i have the definition of the word, but i have a definition:

Ecosystems can be defined as the “collection of the platform and the modules [or complements] specific to it” [22: 676].

For those who care: reference is Tiwana, A., B. Konsyski and A.A. Bush, “Research Commentary: Platform Evolution: Coevolution of Platform Architecture, Governance and Environmental Dynamics”, ISR 21(4), INFORMS, Linthicum: MA, 2010, pp. 675-687.

There is, of course, an even broader definition stemming from its use in economy, but i won't go into that here. Regardless, an ecosystem is just that: an ecosystem. The trick is getting it to work to best serve your interests :- )

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It's funny all the arm chair quarterbacks and back seat drivers posting here.

Sorry, but unless you work at Apple and are on the Siri team, I seriously doubt you know Apple's intentions with the software. Meaning how it works now and how it's supposed to work when it is finally released. Just because a few people have hacked the current beta onto other devices doesn't mean that it will in the future work on those devices.

For all we know, the A5 could in fact contain a DSP unit which could enable local speech recognition.

Challenge: Point out these arm chair quarterbacks and back seat drivers that claims to know Apples intentions with the software.

And, as already stated, it (Siri) not running in the future has no relevance for whether or not it runs today. In essence, moot point.

p.s. for all we know it could be running alien technology too. however, even if it does, it clearly doesn't stop it from running on 3GS.

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Why stop at Siri? The iPhone 4 and 4S cases are the same. Apple should give iPhone 4 users a walk in upgrade to an 8MP sensor too. There is no technical reason why not after all.

Way to miss the point. The argument was never that Apple should give everyone Siri, but that Apple could give everyone Siri. In that sense, yes, your remark is analogous albeit stupid - whats your point?

 

[shandyman]

No you are the one refusing to listen to reason. The "proof" you want is impossible to get due to the fact that it is easy for Apple to block on their end (4S ID required) and it is a cake walk to determine if one is being used for multiple devices. Just see if request are coming from location distances that are impossible to travel to in that amount of time and it is happening repeatedly.


But what we do have is more and more evidance that none of the work is done on the phone. Audio to string is done on Apple's servers, The required searches done on Apple servers and then results are send back to the phone.
Proof of that is in the amount of data being sent from the phone. The fact that it is 20+kb is proof.

Since all the heavy lifting is done on Apple servers that tells us that the phone is doing next to nothing. Commands to open said app and perform said functions is nothing for the phone.
Top it off there was a Siri App before Apple disabled it that worked just fine on the 3G which is even older than the 3GS.

Multiple people have provided strong evidence that it is a 100% software block on Apple.
You need to provide some evidence for a technical limitation phone side on why the 4 and 3GS can not run Siri. You have yet to provide anything.

It has been funny watching the arguments for why only the 4S got Siri degrade. All signs point to a BS block by Apple.

My point is perfectly reasonable. In software development, it's easy to look at code and say something should work perfectly, making it work a couple of times seems fine, but then under daily usage, things can then start to break. Look at iOS 4 for the 3GS, no major issues in beta, but once released, crippled majority of 3GS' with terrible slowdown

Something shown working once or twice is an extremely weak foundation for an argument. Anyone using it is either in denial, or plain bitter about their iOS device not getting it.

Also Siri is in beta, for all we know, the 4S may take on more of the brunt once Beta is done.

Also the self entitlement in here is hysterical. Even if it's fully proved a 3GS can handle Siri properly from day to day, Apple doesn't have to give older devices this feature, they've withheld features before, so it's nothing new. It's like someone moaning that they can't have some feature that Lion has when they're running Snow Leopard.

 

[B777Forevar]

All you jailbreaking lamers can GTFO of my Siri service.

Calling the Jailbreak community a bunch of lammers?
Without the jailbreak community, you wouldn't have some of the features that are avialable on the iPhone today.

 

[KnightWRX]

Yes, and if Apple wanted to they could have equipped the 3Gs with an A5 and retina display. Hence, non-technical.

They did, they also gave it a new case. And a new name : iPhone 4S. Stop being obtuse.

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So, having multiple/additional features does not fragment a platform, having multiple versions of the OS on the market does.

Android's framework is built for this though. They have API levels you can target, and on their developper portal, they have an up-to-date graph showing how many users you'll reach depending on the level you target :

http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html

It doesn't matter that some are running 2.3.4, 2.3.5, or 2.3 or even 2.2. You can target the proper API level to reach the broadest or tinniest share of market you want to reach with your application.

Their frameworks also account for screen sizes/densities, and again, they provide a helpful graph :

http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/screens.html

People see fragmentation, I see diversity. With good tools, diversity is quite the plus (more people get what they want, more people tend to gravitate towards your platform).

 

[divinox]

My point is perfectly reasonable. In software development, it's easy to look at code and say something should work perfectly, making it work a couple of times seems fine, but then under daily usage, things can then start to break. Look at iOS 4 for the 3GS, no major issues in beta, but once released, crippled majority of 3GS' with terrible slowdown

Something shown working once or twice is an extremely weak foundation for an argument. Anyone using it is either in denial, or plain bitter about their iOS device not getting it.

Also Siri is in beta, for all we know, the 4S may take on more of the brunt once Beta is done.

Also the self entitlement in here is hysterical. Even if it's fully proved a 3GS can handle Siri properly from day to day, Apple doesn't have to give older devices this feature, they've withheld features before, so it's nothing new. It's like someone moaning that they can't have some feature that Lion has when they're running Snow Leopard.

1) An OS is far more complex than a single application, both in terms of code and in terms of use-cases.
2) Siri being in beta is irrelevant, as the Siri beta is indeed what we claim the 3GS can run.
3) None of the people making this argument are guilty of self-entitlement. In fact, some of us already own the 4S.

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Calling the Jailbreak community a bunch of lammers?
Without the jailbreak community, you wouldn't have some of the features that are avialable on the iPhone today.

Without the jailbreak community, there would be no iPhone (by MR-logic, that is).

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They did, they also gave it a new case. And a new name : iPhone 4S. Stop being obtuse.

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Android's framework is built for this though. They have API levels you can target, and on their developper portal, they have an up-to-date graph showing how many users you'll reach depending on the level you target :

http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html

It doesn't matter that some are running 2.3.4, 2.3.5, or 2.3 or even 2.2. You can target the proper API level to reach the broadest or tinniest share of market you want to reach with your application.

Their frameworks also account for screen sizes/densities, and again, they provide a helpful graph :

http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/screens.html

People see fragmentation, I see diversity. With good tools, diversity is quite the plus (more people get what they want, more people tend to gravitate towards your platform).

True. People seem to confuse fragmentation with chaos. Properly managed, fragmentation (or diversification) has clear positive effects on e.g. platform growth and generativity. (To be fair, so has the walled garden approach - but as it seems, there is no linear correlation in which more (or less) control (or fragmentation) is necessarily better). At least that is the case if we are to believe research on the matter.

(If not, just having eyes gets us far. Have a look at the mac from 80-2010. Then have a look at Windows. Which boomed, which did not? Which platform did users, developers, and business gravitate toward?).

 

[The Phazer]

Also Siri is in beta, for all we know, the 4S may take on more of the brunt once Beta is done.

What is it with people misunderstanding what "beta" means?

Beta means feature complete, testing for bug fixes. It does not mean "at this point we might fundamentally re-engineer the entire infrastructure."

It's like someone moaning that they can't have some feature that Lion has when they're running Snow Leopard.

No, that would be common sense for Apple given Lion is unusable and the current alternative is for people to drop OSX entirely and move to Windows.

Phazer

 

[KnightWRX]

that would be common sense for Apple given Lion is unusable

Good thing we don't have to give that then uh ? I use Lion everyday. If it was unusable, I couldn't do that now could I ?

 

[shandyman]

2) Siri being in beta is irrelevant, as the Siri beta is indeed what we claim the 3GS can run.

Actually it's very relevant. Why let the 3GS have Siri in Beta then pull it if they change it when taking it put of beta so the phone takes on more of the processing? That'd just cause more of an uproar....

 

[KnightWRX]

Actually it's very relevant. Why let the 3GS have Siri in Beta then pull it if they change it when taking it put of beta so the phone takes on more of the processing? That'd just cause more of an uproar....

Change what ? It's in Beta. It won't drastically change for release from its current state.

Someone stated it earlier, are you ignoring logic on purpose ? Beta means "Feature complete, bug fixes only". Beta stage is reached after a feature freeze usually in software development.

 

[shandyman]

Change what ? It's in Beta. It won't drastically change for release from its current state.

Someone stated it earlier, are you ignoring logic on purpose ? Beta means "Feature complete, bug fixes only". Beta stage is reached after a feature freeze usually in software development.

It's not unusual for a public beta to be different from final release, it's happened before with other things. Take iOS 5, if it was feature complete in beta 1, how come we had othe features added throughout the beta period such as custom ringtones, wifi syncing, OTA updating, etc. Or are you counting them as bug fixes? lol. if that doesn't suit you, a further beta where they are happy that Siri is working perfectly and want to initiate the remaining phase. Again, this has been done before. they could have easily fully tested the iPhone 4S doing most of the processing power for Siri and just needed the public beta to get the back end perfected. It's just a theory and I never stated it was a fact, but there is logic and grounds there. No-one can confirm or deny anything in this thread as no-one here works for Apple or has seen any of their testing, nor has there been any official comment.

All the people claiming that the random 20-30 minute mess around, claiming that that is irrefutable proof that it works perfect (which it isn't) cannot full prove anything without full and proper testing. you get so defensive when you get reasonably challenged as you must know its a shaky foundation for your point... As I said earlier, Your car had some new style brakes that have only ever been tested twice, could you trust that they will work perfectly each time or would you want a make that had been thoroughly stress tested and found to be reliable?

 

[samcraig]

My point is perfectly reasonable.

Also the self entitlement in here is hysterical. Even if it's fully proved a 3GS can handle Siri properly from day to day, Apple doesn't have to give older devices this feature, they've withheld features before, so it's nothing new. It's like someone moaning that they can't have some feature that Lion has when they're running Snow Leopard.

If your point(s) are reasonable - so are those that disagree with you. Since you can't state for a fact that Siri won't work on other devices (notice I said FACT) - then both possibilities are plausible. Yet you only want to acknowledge one. Do you even know the definition of denial?

As for entitlement - I think you're reading too much into it. No one (or at least the ones discussing this with you specifically) is arguing that they are entitled to Siri or even WANT Siri. That's a leap in logic/namecalling which is ridiculous. Just because we argue that it's possible doesn't mean we want it. We are saying there's no reason for it not to be on other devices. That's a statement. Show me where I (or others arguing this with you) have said "And I want Siri on my device" or something even remotely similar.

All the people claiming that the random 20-30 minute mess around, claiming that that is irrefutable proof that it works perfect (which it isn't) cannot full prove anything without full and proper testing. you get so defensive when you get reasonably challenged as you must know its a shaky foundation for your point... As I said earlier, Your car had some new style brakes that have only ever been tested twice, could you trust that they will work perfectly each time or would you want a make that had been thoroughly stress tested and found to be reliable?

Bad analogy - but I expect nothing else. Try arguing your point without one. You can't. And you're incorrect. Siri has been show to work 100% as it's supposed to in the latest demos. So either you're making stuff up - or you haven't done your research. And it's funny to see you call us defensive. Especially after you claim you're done with this thread and then keep coming back to DEFEND yourself

I'm not in denial, i just want more substantiative evidence it works by someone actually testing it on a 3GS for 2-3 weeks of normal use as opposed to what's been done so far, which is probably 20-30 minutes of messing about. give me real world testing and i'll agree with you. How that seems to be unreasonable to the hardcore people in denial on here is beyond me, oh wait, they're in denial and worry about anything that might prove them wrong.....

LOL at the antenna, that's the most idiotic comment i've read from you. Yes they tested it in high tech labs, they didn't test it in the real world without it being in a case, so this flaw bypassed them, if you saw the reports, the ones out in the wild were in cases, which bypassed the flaw. no-one is perfect.

BTW, only came back to this thread cos i had subscribed to it. I'm out for good now and leave the peeps in denial to try and fight their way out a paperbag........

Who made you the arbiter of what is enough testing to "prove" it works or doesn't. Here's a hint. Nobody. If the testing isn't enough for you - so be it. But that doesn't mean the tests aren't valid.

And the Antenna issue was a PERFECT example to counter your comment about how Apple would have done extensive testing and KNOWN that Siri would or wouldn't work on other devices. Newsflash - Apple isn't infallible. And you also have zero proof that they tested Siri on other devices and found it to NOT work.

Again I have to ask if you know the definition of denial. I don't think you do. And if you do - you certainly doesn't understand the definition of hypocrisy.

 

[KnightWRX]

It's not unusual for a public beta to be different from final release, it's happened before with other things. Take iOS 5, if it was feature complete in beta 1, how come we had othe features added throughout the beta period such as custom ringtones, wifi syncing, OTA updating, etc. Or are you counting them as bug fixes? lol.

Notice all those features were already announced. Feature freeze was in effect when that first Beta shipped. iOS Betas are rolled out in phases for the developer release. That is concentrate testing on key areas instead of one big package (an OS distribution is huge compared to an application like Siri). Internally, the Beta already had all of those, they didn't just write the code then and there as they added those features to the subsequent Betas. They send out subsets so that testing is much more efficient and so is bug reporting. If they shipped out a full release, they'd spread out the reports and testing and might miss more bugs.

Of course, you'd know this if you had participated in Q&A and solutions implementation projects over the course of your career.

lol.

 

[steviem]

I bought a car a while ago. It cost me around $27K.

Then they came out with a new car that has a hybrid engine in it.

Where is my hybrid engine? Why don't I get one now? Both cars sold for ~$27K originally.

-SC

Not the same at all, sorry.

More like Ford doing a mytouch firmware upgrade for the Fusion, but not for the Fiesta, even though the fiesta can technically run the upgrade.

Your analogy is more akin to someone with a 3GS wanting a gyroscope added to it.

 

[firewood]

But for people to argue that Siri itself does not work on anything or cannot work on anything but the 4S is silly.

Siri involves a ton of licensed software. Do you have any proof that this software is legally licensed to (or payed for by) Apple for use on anything other than a 4s?

If there is no license, than anyone can argue that it is illegal for this software to work on anything other than a 4s.

 

[samcraig]

Siri involves a ton of licensed software. Do you have any proof that this software is legally licensed to (or payed for by) Apple for use on anything other than a 4s?

If there is no license, than anyone can argue that it is illegal for this software to work on anything other than a 4s.

No argument there. That's really not germane to the last several posts where the discussion centered around technical issues.

No one knows what was contracted or not. Or if anything was contracted at all.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

My point is perfectly reasonable. In software development, it's easy to look at code and say something should work perfectly, making it work a couple of times seems fine, but then under daily usage, things can then start to break. Look at iOS 4 for the 3GS, no major issues in beta, but once released, crippled majority of 3GS' with terrible slowdown

Provide evidence that there could be a possible slow down in older devices. Nothing found out so far points to that conclusion. All signs point to the iPhone is just a being a recording device that sends the audio to Apple servers to all the work.
There have been zero signs to possible device issues. The worse thing I can see siri doing is it starts building a file storing some information. But that type of searching is pretty easy to do and very quick as it would be index and in some type of order making it a cake walk to jump threw.

Something shown working once or twice is an extremely weak foundation for an argument. Anyone using it is either in denial, or plain bitter about their iOS device not getting it.

Where did I or any of us say that?
It more sounds like you have turned to insults when you are finding your only argument is well broken and a grasping at straws.

Also Siri is in beta, for all we know, the 4S may take on more of the brunt once Beta is done.

Sorry Apple has already said other wise. There are no plans for support on anything older than the 4S.

Also Beta means feature complete.

Beta testing does not mean everything is turned on. For iOS 5 for example if you noticed everything was feature complete. They just turned items on after testing was completed in beta. Common practice is you limit what you are collecting data on so you can make it usable. It pretty normal to see betas turning off features to test only the ones they are looking at. At the time.
Swiftkey does it quite often with their betas as they are only testing certain parts and as such only want data from those sections.


For Apple Siri case all signs point to Apple needed some other reason to put another check mark on the 4S as they felt it could not stand well enough on its own.

 

[Shenlong]

So I just wanted to know, If this all works out and gets finalized will I be able to run siri on my 4?