I think puppies are great.
Change of subject: My cat can juggle.
Strawman: How dare you advocate bestiality.
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SJ and Ryan Tate go at it via email at 2AM!
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I think puppies are great.
Change of subject: My cat can juggle.
Strawman: How dare you advocate bestiality.
I am simply confirming awmazz's assertion that you don't really know what a strawman is. Whether or not you'll accept that lack of validation is up to you. *shrug*
I'm surprised you can't see the simple difference between a change of subject and a strawman argument. I was just about to copy/paste some examples from this very thread (and I provided a clear example of a strawman in my earlier post), but cmaier did a fine job of it too:
You can easily try to change the subject of an argument without implementing the strawman technique. It's done all the time, especially in these forums.
The strawman is another beast entirely. Though it's also done all the time, especially in these forums.
You accused awmazz of using a strawman simply because he focused on the porn aspect of the argument. In his case he neither really changed the subject nor used a strawman, despite your accusation. In fact, your accusation itself ("It's a strawman argument to suggest this is only about porn.") could probably be considered a strawman, as you were inventing a position for awmazz (that the whole issue was only about porn) that he never stated himself.
From Wikipedia:
Faux (pronounced /ˈfoʊ/, like "foe") is a French word for false or fake. It is often used in English phrases such as faux pearls. ...
Curse that dictionary for endlessly confounding you. You should really quit while you're behind...
Even if you believe that my definition wasn't good enough can you really assert in good conscience, given my definition and example, that I don't know what a strawman argument is?
Can we all just agree that puppies are great, regardless of whether you personally are allergic to them? Anyone can enjoy their antics from afar. Me: I'm allergic to gawker, I didn't want to give them traffic, but I relented and went and read their little email conversation. Neither one sounded angry to me. The Tate guy sounded a little whiny, but I think everyone assumes more heat & passion on the internet than if you were having a face to face conversation.
Based on your original statement, not necessarily.
Based on your additional arguments on the matter, yeah, absolutely.
And I think puppies are great, even though I'm allergic. (Paradox!)
Your example doesn't match up with what I've actually seen in this thread. You make it look like the Apple supporters are calm and reasonable while the detractors are confused and completely off base. Sorry, but I see both sides going overboard in this thread and fanning the flames with your one-sided examples only helps keep it going.
I think it qualifies. It seems absurd that an allergic person still thinks puppies are great. However, he is able to rise above his animal nature and, being fully human, embrace the greatness that is puppyhood. This is the deeper truth. Just so: Steve Jobs rises above the morass of tablets and netbooks to produce something truly magical. Too much? Too over the top? Ok, I agree with him about freedom from porn, it makes it easier to deal with. You still can't keep it off, and you still have to watch kids like a hawk. But it makes it easier. Don't like it? Go buy an HP Slate.dictionary.com said:
And what exactly are you doing here? :
I see you dislike Apple, do you come just to bash? Because frankly your whole "signature" reeks of uninformed assumptions.
Don't think so. Being allergic to something is not contradictory to thinking something is great. After all, how many commercials are there that go something like "I love ice cream, but I'm lactose intolerant..."
I was wondering what the hell people could still be discussing about this late-night e-mail exchange between Steve Jobs and some drunk blogtard, so I click on "Last Page" and see the slapfight underway on page 47.
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
I actually think Apple makes a lot of really cool and interesting stuff. Unfortunately they've also started doing things that really irk me. Since I'm not a disciple of the Cult of Steve I don't have any qualms about criticizing Apple when they do something I don't agree with. Lately there's been a lot of screw-ups from their end and it's definitely changed how I view them overall. Maybe the Apple fanatics would rather that nobody ever speak ill of Apple but it's too late for that now. Apple is huge. Gigantic. They are impacting the market in ways they never could before and it's a much bigger story now than it was for most of their history. I hope the era of blind devotion will eventually eventually give way to a more objective view from the fans. Then again, I never saw this level of irrational exuberance for previous mindshare behemoths like Microsoft or Sony, so I could be wrong about that.
Lactose intolerance is not an allergy. You don't die from not being able to digest milk. A better example would be peanut allergies. I know a guy who is very allergic to peanuts, and he hates peanuts with a passion, can't stand the smell, not anything. Or Hay Fever, many people hate spring because of it. On the other hand, beans give me gas, but I still like beans. In fact, I know people who say they hate cats or dogs because of allergies. I know people who say they hate Apple because of Jobs' policies. I know people who say they hate inanimate objects, like Apple computers. People are very free with their hate, history is full of it.
But okay, it's not really a paradox, to you, if it doesn't strike you as odd that somebody would be allergic and also think puppies are great. In my experience, most people assume that everyone thinks like themselves, and if they can't be around puppies or Apple computers themselves, then they must be evil. And if the iPad doesn't fit your work & play routine, then it must be useless. And if Steve Jobs says or does something you disagree with, then he must be wrong wrong wrong! But that's just most people.
I read the first several pages, then did the same as you and got sucked in. Must get back to work.
Sometimes people don't criticize just because they agree with the action. It's insulting to suggest that people who disagree with you are brainwashed or cultists.
There you go again.
Strike three. Again, just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are not objective.
It really undermines any point you are trying to make when instead of substantively confronting opposing arguments you accuse others of being brainwashed cultists with blind and subjective devotion.
It may be odd, but it is not a paradox. And allergies are not a better qualifier of a paradox than general discomfort.
Odd, because I pretty much gave an exact example from this thread. I'll try to give a more "two-sided" example next time for the sake of fairness and balance.
Though again, despite your claim, I did not use a strawman and I in no way argued "the Apple supporters are calm and reasonable while the detractors are confused and completely off base". See, that would be your strawman - inventing a position for me that you can easily dismiss.
Wikipedia:
The word paradox is often used interchangeably with contradiction. It is also used to describe situations that are ironic.
Seriously, stop digging the hole.
I'll leave you to your own language misconceptions. Makes no difference to me. But the next time you falsely accuse someone of using a strawman (and ironically creating a strawman of your own in the process) I'll try to point it out.
LOL! The sure sign of a dying thread is its disintegration into complete incoherence.
Allergies are not always fatal (in fact most are not). I had a milk allergy as a child. Had to drink soy milk instead, otherwise I would have spastic coughing fits and breathing difficulty. Didn't kill me when I ate ice cream. I was also allergic to pollen, etc. growing up, and had allergy shots every week. Rolling around in the grass wouldn't kill me - it would just stuff up my nose and make my eyes water. Similarly, I'm still allergic to dogs, but I have two. I think I'm alive.
Off topic, of course, but this thread is already shot completely to hell.
But such a circumstance certainly can be a paradox. A veterinarian who is allergic to animals: paradox.
Sometimes it's fun to kick the body even after it stops twitching. Or so I've been told.
Some folks here do act like they're brainwashed to the point of being completely incapable of objective analysis.
Maybe you should read that yourself.
Yeah, I'm accusing some folks here of being dishonest cheerleaders for most everything Apple does, even to the point of blatant self-contradiction. Sorry, but I'm just calling it how I see it. If you can't handle that then put me on your ignore list or something.
There is no irony in being allergic to puppies, but still liking them. It would be ironic if you had to be allergic to dogs in order to enjoy them.
But this one isn't your fault, most Americans just don't understand irony.
Repeating the insult doesn't validate it.
I didn't accuse anyone of not being objective, so why should I "read that [my]self?"
Well, actually, instead I'll just report you to the mods. The behavior you admit you are engaging in is contrary to forum rules.
Heh, I wish he had posted that drivel earlier so I could use it as a perfect example of a strawman (several, actually) for TuffLuffJimmy.
Good idea.
If you really wanted to claim you pulled an "exact example" you'd have quoted it. Full stop. "Pretty much" doesn't mean anything outside of horseshoes and hand grenades, so the next time you feel the need to say it you might want to reconsider your argument.
See your tirades against AMD.
I'm glad you realize I'm being objective then.
Thanks for helping me make the case that Apple fanatics can't handle anything that contradicts their blind love of Apple. You're the best sidekick I could have ever hoped for.