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I could agree with all EXCEPT the vinyl!
- There are just some specific genres (dead now) that are apart of my soul ... and the vinyl has something unique with that genre that will never happen again, not with these digital tools - unless someone is really crafty enough and daring enough to try it: a riding tempo (disco - real disco not that ABBA crap)! Funk too. BTW I love modern music as well.

Digital doesn't have to mean sampled or whatever. They're just tools. You can still record straight-up if you want.

The usual argument for vinyl is that some say it has better or warmer sound. From what evidence I've seen, it's an even order distortion and even order ones are "pleasant" (think guitar distortion sounding pleasant despite being a distortion of the true tone of the string). The main thing is that if you sample a vinyl record, people can't tell the real record from the recording of it in double blind tests, so whatever it is that makes it "better "to some people isn't a limitation of the digital medium itself, but something the vinyl changes.

I'm a home theater enthusiast. I used Windows for quite a long time before switching, and always sought out the best DVD software...

Because, unlike a stand-alone DVD player, playing a DVD in software allowed the HIGHEST quality in scaling up the low-resolution 480p (sometimes anamorphic) content to fit a much higher resolution projector.

I still have a single Windows machine in my home, in the viewing room's AV rack.

But it doesn't have a blu-ray player.

I can't think of any single reason why, if you want to watch a movie from a Blu-ray disc, you wouldn't instead use a BLU-RAY DISC PLAYER.

If I have a home theater PC with a blu-ray drive in it set up in my home theater system regardless of a stand-alone blu-ray player and it has a Blu-Ray drive in it, why exactly would I want to buy ANOTHER Blu-Ray stand-alone player if I can have ONE device run ALL of my software (whether on hard drive or disc)? I mean, your argument just turns on itself. Why have and use two when you only need ONE?

As for having it on Macs in general, the list is much more extensive and goes beyond your one little area of concern. For example:

1> I personally don't like disc formats (as in having to go find one disc in a library over 600 discs stacked in racks in another part of the room or the room next to it). This is particularly onerous if one has a larger house with multiple viewing rooms (I have two large music setups, one with a 47" display and the other with a 93" screen; the 47" one is really about the high-end audio using ribbon speakers that did not come in home theater arrangements and being 6 FEET tall, they don't work well with center channels at the very least.) That room is also my music room and where I do a lot of recording with my MBP. The 47" display is mounted on the wall so it doesn't get in the way. It can also double as a monitor display when mixing from a listening position across the room using the ribbon monitors when I record my own music. The 2nd room is a traditional home theater room downstairs with a 6.1 speaker setup and a 93" projector/screen.

I have AppleTV boxes in both rooms (which will soon be 1080p 3rd generation boxes). Why would I want to run Blu-Ray discs between two floors (far more inconvenient than just the back of one of the rooms) when I can DUMP all my Blu-Ray discs onto a giant hard drive RAID array (even without re-compressing if desired) and simply send it over my home network to wherever I want to watch it? I can even put a copy on a notebook and take it with me (which I would HAVE to do with a Mac since they don't support Blu-Ray and even if I'm just talking about a basic DVD, the new Macs don't have drives in them). Either way, I STILL have to dump these discs and that means my computer has to have a BD drive attached to it one way or another (you can dump from a Mac or even watch them from a Mac that has Windows on it). I'd prefer them built-in for convenience sake.

2> Home video (or even professional projects for that matter) are typically in 1080p these days and even IF you don't use BD, your friends very well might and so if you want to send them a copy of your home movie, you will probably need to burn them a Blu-Ray disc. You can't burn it if you don't have a BD compuer writer drive.

3> New MBP models will have Retina resolution displays soon and if I'm on a trip, why wouldn't I want to watch Blu-Ray discs on it? Yeah, I can use a digital version or even a digital compressed version, but if it's from BD, I still need a drive SOMEWHERE to do that. For example, I have USB in my car stereo and so I hardly ever use a CD anymore, but what if I see an album at Best Buy I want (either on CD for uncompressed quality sake or because I want to hear it NOW). If I didn't have the CD drive in my car stereo, I flat out couldn't listen to it right away. I'd have to wait until I got home or to my notebook (but not the NEW Mac notebooks since they have NO drive) and DUMP it and then transfer it to a USB stick and then go back to the car to listen to it there (meanwhile, I might as well just listen to it at home).


I think what really bothers some of us is that Apple isn't using the saved space from removing the drive to put something BETTER in there. They are just making the computer THINNER. Well if I wanted a Macbook Air, I would buy one! :mad:

My 2008 MBP is plenty small, thin and light enough. It doesn't need to be light enough to use as a frisbee for god's sake! Why remove USEFUL hardware just to make it like another model? It's just pointless (like making iPhones thinner with new battery tech instead of giving us MORE time with the same size. Look at the new iPad4. I'd rather have an iPad3 with 27 hours of battery life in that case form. I'm not likely to watch a lot of 1080p movies on a freaking iPad. I AM likely to need a lot of battery life on this thing, but Apple doesn't care about that. Frankly, I'm SHOCKED they were willing to make that model thicker even to accommodate a Retina display. I think Steve Jobs would have forbade that if he were alive. The man was obsessed with THIN as you can possibly make it work, no matter the cost and some of us just don't get that at all. A 5 pound notebook is NOT heavy for god's sake. I carried a 30 pound bookbag (with 7+ school books in it plus folders and notebooks, etc.) for many years in college. A 5 pound notebook is nothing.

It seems little more than silly to sit in front of a computer screen to watch Blu-Ray, which is best truly enjoyed on large screens with powerful sound.

I guess you don't ever have to go on business trips. I spent 6 weeks STRAIGHT in a hotel last year. It was a nice hotel, but watching 20 cable channels gets old after awhile, particularly since the tv wasn't THAT much larger than a larger notebook, particularly when I had to watch the TV from the bed but I could watch the notebook from a desk chair at a closer distance (and plug in high quality headphones to boot). The TV was SD. An HD movie would have been more pleasant to look at by far, IMO. At least I had over 80 movies with me to watch (on the hard drive).

And if one has that large screen (or like me, a good HD Projector) and powerful sound in your viewing room, then why on earth wouldn't one have a Blue-Ray player?

See reason #1. Even if I have one, that doesn't mean I want to use it, particularly if the quality can be made nearly equal (straight dump). You don't know how NICE it is to be able to access any tv show, movie or photo from a simple menu system until you try it. With DVDs, the quality isn't an issue. It's simple to handle them any way you want from a straight dump with full menus to just the movie file to a high-setting recompress that can be used from AppleTV menus (XBMC will play DVDs straight with menus or without).
 
Thanks zgwortz & Cubytus. It seems that the choice may be hard:)
Although if the new MB doesn't have the optical drive (I would really hope for the BluRay this time) I'll probably go for the old one as well.

MagnusvonMagnum wrote:
I think what really bothers some of us is that Apple isn't using the saved space from removing the drive to put something BETTER in there. They are just making the computer THINNER. Well if I wanted a Macbook Air, I would buy one!


I don't own a MAC myself and I don't have MAC history in my bio, but I think I'm entitled to an opinion:) And I must say that I fully agree with you.
When I've been considering whether to buy a Macbook or a Windows laptop it has been quite of a puzzle for me. The main reason (after I've made peace with spending more money on the MB) was the ODD and the USB in MB. Don't know if it's Apple's desire to set trends that makes them take weird decisions. Getting rid of the ODD. I mean BluRay may not be a general standard, but it is pretty common in modern laptops, let alone the DVD-ROM which is a must have. And frankly I would expect a BR from a high end laptop like the MB Pro. It is rather light as it is, plus it is a laptop so it should be designed for mobility. And having to drag along an external drive isn't a mobility friendly feature as one of the interlocutors has pointed out. Even if you consider 15" and especially 17" MB to be a desktop replacement, then removing optical drive still doesn't make that much sense since the computer is going to sit still plus has a lot more space in it to hold the ODD.
Another thing that bugs or just puzzles me a bit about Apple is the USB policy. I mean whether Apple likes it or not the USB is a common standard - my old Acer has 4 USB ports. And the new MAC with 2 USB ports looks a bit strange and not as user friendly. Of course I will be able to get by with 2 USBs, but as I frequently use laptops when I'm out of home (since from what I know is their purpose) I tend to have at least 2 USB ports taken - one for the flash drive, where I store and save backup files for work and studies and the other one for my phone. For example, if I want to charge it. So I wouldn't mind 3rd USB just in case there's something I need to copy from pendrive to pendrive whether for myself or for a friend. I'm pretty sure that USB 3.0 will be the next flash storage format and I'm afraid that Apple can't do much about it. Probably same goes for the BluRay. It's that MB's market share is too small. They can set trends in design, which they obviously do since almost every other manufacturer copies them. But getting rid of the ODD and reducing the number of USB ports isn't going to make Dell, HP, Acer, Asus etc do the same. I mean, why would it?
Another thing is that if they remove the ODD from MB the Pro will basically become an ultrabook - which, in my private opinion, is the next marketing idea to make you want to spend extra money on a computer that's something between a desktop replacement and a mobile computer and that's in fact being none of these. And I'm glad that Apple didn't go that way: Air is something between a netbook and an ultrabook while MB Pro is a 100% laptop. First of all it is a clear distinction that makes a customer's choice nice and easy and furthermore should satisfy most if not every consumer. Should you want mobility and good perfomance, you go with Air.
If you want mobility and the perfomance of a PC, you go with MB Pro and if you want a desktop replacement you go with 17 (or even 15") MB Pro. It's nice and simple. Everyone will find a useful Macbook in term of his/her needs.
To sum it up. Progress and innovation should mean: same power and functionality, less space and weight. Getting rid of essentials (and ODD is an essential in my book) in order to gain space, lightness and whatnot simply doesn't seem innovative for me. It looks a bit like cheating.
So as for the new MB - I'm pretty sure it will look nice as Apple products tend to do, I'm rather sure it will have good performance skills. But I also hope it will have 8GB of RAM, which is a must have IMHO, a BluRay and at least 3 USB ports. If it doesn't I will probably try to get the older version, especially if I find it cheaper and considering that it meets all my needs. I may put in additional 4GBs of RAM just to be safe:)
 
Digital doesn't have to mean sampled or whatever. They're just tools. You can still record straight-up if you want.

The usual argument for vinyl is that some say it has better or warmer sound. From what evidence I've seen, it's an even order distortion and even order ones are "pleasant" (think guitar distortion sounding pleasant despite being a distortion of the true tone of the string). The main thing is that if you sample a vinyl record, people can't tell the real record from the recording of it in double blind tests, so whatever it is that makes it "better "to some people isn't a limitation of the digital medium itself, but something the vinyl changes.



If I have a home theater PC with a blu-ray drive in it set up in my home theater system regardless of a stand-alone blu-ray player and it has a Blu-Ray drive in it, why exactly would I want to buy ANOTHER Blu-Ray stand-alone player if I can have ONE device run ALL of my software (whether on hard drive or disc)? I mean, your argument just turns on itself. Why have and use two when you only need ONE?

As for having it on Macs in general, the list is much more extensive and goes beyond your one little area of concern. For example:

1> I personally don't like disc formats (as in having to go find one disc in a library over 600 discs stacked in racks in another part of the room or the room next to it). This is particularly onerous if one has a larger house with multiple viewing rooms (I have two large music setups, one with a 47" display and the other with a 93" screen; the 47" one is really about the high-end audio using ribbon speakers that did not come in home theater arrangements and being 6 FEET tall, they don't work well with center channels at the very least.) That room is also my music room and where I do a lot of recording with my MBP. The 47" display is mounted on the wall so it doesn't get in the way. It can also double as a monitor display when mixing from a listening position across the room using the ribbon monitors when I record my own music. The 2nd room is a traditional home theater room downstairs with a 6.1 speaker setup and a 93" projector/screen.

I have AppleTV boxes in both rooms (which will soon be 1080p 3rd generation boxes). Why would I want to run Blu-Ray discs between two floors (far more inconvenient than just the back of one of the rooms) when I can DUMP all my Blu-Ray discs onto a giant hard drive RAID array (even without re-compressing if desired) and simply send it over my home network to wherever I want to watch it? I can even put a copy on a notebook and take it with me (which I would HAVE to do with a Mac since they don't support Blu-Ray and even if I'm just talking about a basic DVD, the new Macs don't have drives in them). Either way, I STILL have to dump these discs and that means my computer has to have a BD drive attached to it one way or another (you can dump from a Mac or even watch them from a Mac that has Windows on it). I'd prefer them built-in for convenience sake.

2> Home video (or even professional projects for that matter) are typically in 1080p these days and even IF you don't use BD, your friends very well might and so if you want to send them a copy of your home movie, you will probably need to burn them a Blu-Ray disc. You can't burn it if you don't have a BD compuer writer drive.

3> New MBP models will have Retina resolution displays soon and if I'm on a trip, why wouldn't I want to watch Blu-Ray discs on it? Yeah, I can use a digital version or even a digital compressed version, but if it's from BD, I still need a drive SOMEWHERE to do that. For example, I have USB in my car stereo and so I hardly ever use a CD anymore, but what if I see an album at Best Buy I want (either on CD for uncompressed quality sake or because I want to hear it NOW). If I didn't have the CD drive in my car stereo, I flat out couldn't listen to it right away. I'd have to wait until I got home or to my notebook (but not the NEW Mac notebooks since they have NO drive) and DUMP it and then transfer it to a USB stick and then go back to the car to listen to it there (meanwhile, I might as well just listen to it at home).


I think what really bothers some of us is that Apple isn't using the saved space from removing the drive to put something BETTER in there. They are just making the computer THINNER. Well if I wanted a Macbook Air, I would buy one! :mad:

My 2008 MBP is plenty small, thin and light enough. It doesn't need to be light enough to use as a frisbee for god's sake! Why remove USEFUL hardware just to make it like another model? It's just pointless (like making iPhones thinner with new battery tech instead of giving us MORE time with the same size. Look at the new iPad4. I'd rather have an iPad3 with 27 hours of battery life in that case form. I'm not likely to watch a lot of 1080p movies on a freaking iPad. I AM likely to need a lot of battery life on this thing, but Apple doesn't care about that. Frankly, I'm SHOCKED they were willing to make that model thicker even to accommodate a Retina display. I think Steve Jobs would have forbade that if he were alive. The man was obsessed with THIN as you can possibly make it work, no matter the cost and some of us just don't get that at all. A 5 pound notebook is NOT heavy for god's sake. I carried a 30 pound bookbag (with 7+ school books in it plus folders and notebooks, etc.) for many years in college. A 5 pound notebook is nothing.



I guess you don't ever have to go on business trips. I spent 6 weeks STRAIGHT in a hotel last year. It was a nice hotel, but watching 20 cable channels gets old after awhile, particularly since the tv wasn't THAT much larger than a larger notebook, particularly when I had to watch the TV from the bed but I could watch the notebook from a desk chair at a closer distance (and plug in high quality headphones to boot). The TV was SD. An HD movie would have been more pleasant to look at by far, IMO. At least I had over 80 movies with me to watch (on the hard drive).



See reason #1. Even if I have one, that doesn't mean I want to use it, particularly if the quality can be made nearly equal (straight dump). You don't know how NICE it is to be able to access any tv show, movie or photo from a simple menu system until you try it. With DVDs, the quality isn't an issue. It's simple to handle them any way you want from a straight dump with full menus to just the movie file to a high-setting recompress that can be used from AppleTV menus (XBMC will play DVDs straight with menus or without).

Your setup and usage sounds a lot like mine!! I also use a MBP for recording...which is why I can't give up FIREWIRE ports for a while, unless I want to spend exorbitant amounts of money to find a new solution to all my high-quality FW audio equipment.

I don't think you shouldn't have a BD player in your machine! I think whatever you need should be possible.

But yes, I HAVE been in MANY business trips..which is EXACTLY why I don't think carrying discs, popping them in an out, and keeping up with all that junk is convenient AT ALL.

I have used BD laptops. I've seen what they play.

And I know that there is ZERO benefit in trying to watch a BR, HD movie on a laptop screen in an airplane, over having it play from iTunes or whatever other HD source (like the Netflix HD titles they now offer).

With BD....You are in a crap environment, with a small screen, and a pocket full of discs and cases and other irrelevant junk. It's not fun, and it offers no discernible increase in quality.

And for what I do, with professional audio and including VIDEO production, I do not care if my upcoming MBP I plan to purchase in the next 60 days, has any sort of ODD or not.

----------

why exactly would I want to buy ANOTHER Blu-Ray stand-alone player if I can have ONE device run ALL of my software (whether on hard drive or disc)? I mean, your argument just turns on itself. Why have and use two when you only need ONE? .

It does not turn back.

I simply made the point that there is no benefit in quality by up scaling, whatsoever, by playing your BluRay disc through a computer in your HTPC setup.

Therefore, if you have a system already (like I do) that is bang-on super convenient to access all sources with a single remote, there is NO benefit to going to the trouble of adding a BluRay disc drive to your HTPC. Unless you just want the pride of saying its in there.
 
Hi, I'm new to this forum and new to Macs.

I would like to get your advice regarding buying a Macbook Pro.

I've been working on Macs (Mac Pro on daily basis and MB Pro new & old occasionally) for a few months now at my office. I must admit that I got to enjoy the "mac experience) and I'm planning to buy a "13, 2,4 GHz i5 Macbook Pro to replace an old 15" Acer Expensa laptop that is slowly, but inevitably falling apart. I will stick to my old, but still kicking:) windows PC, because I just need to have 2 computers at home to work on - 1 for me and 1 for my girlfriend, but also 1 for media playback and 1 mobile. I have decided to go wild and make myself a treat and spend some extra $ on the Mac. But that doesn't mean I don't want to save up where and when it is possible to do so:)
I should mention that I live in Poland and electronics here are more expensive than in the US. For example lower model of 13" Macbook Pro costs $1,658 in Poland compared to the $1,200 in the States. And when you add that I make around $1,300/month (don't mean to brag, but it's quite a lot for Polish standards for the average wage is $800/month) then you'll know that buying a Mac in Poland is quite an expense (thus is considered irrational and snobbish:). Nevertheless I've decided that MB Pro is worth it, since buying equally powerful Windows based laptop with aluminium or magnesium body isn't that much of a bargain. Plus, they aren't "unibody" like the MB is and they simply aren't that beautiful and aesthetically enchanting:)
Nevertheless, I've saved up some dimes and asked my distant uncle to bring me a Macbook from the States as he will be visiting his daughter there. Obviously it will be cheaper for me even if I add buying an European power adapter. But since all the signs suggest that the new MB Pros are coming I want to ask you guys, as you know a lot more of Apple, should I wait? I mean:
  • does the older MB Pro's price go down when the new one is introduced and if so how much? (if the price difference isn't that significant I will at least be the wiser and able to compare the new with the old and decide which one I prefer).
  • and the last question. Do you know, based on Apple's policy in the past, if the old MB Pro is still available after the new one has arrived?

I think that's all:) I will be extremely grateful for your input: advice, comments, questions...

Thanks in advance.

Hello! Welcome to the forums and the discussions! :)


I have been in your same situation, and recommend buying refurb. They are even more inspected than new, are perfect, and have the EXACT SAME WARRANTY! It can save you hundreds sometimes, but always a useful amount. I have bought several refurb, and they are JUST LIKE NEW, because I've bought them too.

You can wait for the newest major revision that comes out sometime in the next 90 days... But if the current version suits your needs, get a current model and be happy with it!

I switched to Mac just over 3 years ago with the original Unibody MacBook Pro, 15", 2.53 Core2 Duo. It changed EVERYTHING about the way I use computers. I enjoy making a project, and create a beautiful media product I'm proud of, and it takes MUCH less time. I can save that time to enjoy things I love in life. Projects become fun to use, enjoyable to create, and not a chore. Your everyday computer use becomes much more enjoyable after switching from windows.

Here's a link for you, below:

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

Hello, and welcome to new guy from Poland, from the US!
 
Hi, I'm new to this forum and new to Macs.

I would like to get your advice regarding buying a Macbook Pro.

I've been working on Macs (Mac Pro on daily basis and MB Pro new & old occasionally) for a few months now at my office. I must admit that I got to enjoy the "mac experience) and I'm planning to buy a "13, 2,4 GHz i5 Macbook Pro to replace an old 15" Acer Expensa laptop that is slowly, but inevitably falling apart. I will stick to my old, but still kicking:) windows PC, because I just need to have 2 computers at home to work on - 1 for me and 1 for my girlfriend, but also 1 for media playback and 1 mobile. I have decided to go wild and make myself a treat and spend some extra $ on the Mac. But that doesn't mean I don't want to save up where and when it is possible to do so:)*
I should mention that I live in Poland and electronics here are more expensive than in the US. For example lower model of 13" Macbook Pro costs $1,658 in Poland compared to the $1,200 in the States. And when you add that I make around $1,300/month (don't mean to brag, but it's quite a lot for Polish standards for the average wage is $800/month) then you'll know that buying a Mac in Poland is quite an expense (thus is considered irrational and snobbish:). Nevertheless I've decided that MB Pro is worth it, since buying equally powerful Windows based laptop with aluminium or magnesium body isn't that much of a bargain. Plus, they aren't "unibody" like the MB is and they simply aren't that beautiful and aesthetically enchanting:)
Nevertheless, I've saved up some dimes and asked my distant uncle to bring me a Macbook from the States as he will be visiting his daughter there. Obviously it will be cheaper for me even if I add buying an European power adapter. But since all the signs suggest that the new MB Pros are coming I want to ask you guys, as you know a lot more of Apple, should I wait? I mean:
  • does the older MB Pro's price go down when the new one is introduced and if so how much? (if the price difference isn't that significant I will at least be the wiser and able to compare the new with the old and decide which one I prefer).
  • and the last question. Do you know, based on Apple's policy in the past, if the old MB Pro is still available after the new one has arrived?

I think that's all:) I will be extremely grateful for your input: advice, comments, questions...

Thanks in advance.

Hello! *Welcome to the forums and the discussions! *:)


I have been in your same situation, and recommend buying refurb. *They are even more inspected than new, are perfect, and have the EXACT SAME WARRANTY! *It can save you hundreds sometimes, but always a useful amount. *I have bought several refurb, and they are JUST LIKE NEW, because I've bought them too.

You can wait for the newest major revision that comes out sometime in the next 90 days... But if the current version suits your needs, get a current model and be happy with it!

I switched to Mac just over 3 years ago with the original Unibody MacBook Pro, 15", 2.53 Core2 Duo. *It changed EVERYTHING about the way I use computers. *I enjoy making a project, and create a beautiful media product I'm proud of, and it takes MUCH less time. *I can save that time to enjoy things I love in life. *Projects become fun to use, enjoyable to create, and not a chore. *Your everyday computer use becomes much more enjoyable after switching from windows.

Here's a link for you, below:

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

Hello, and welcome to new guy from Poland, from the US!
 
- Burning CDs/DVDs/Blu-rays of your own stuff
- Backups
How do you overcome the no-multisession restriction that is present in Mac OS X? Finding exactly 25GB of data to save on physical space requirements and per-GB cost isn't very practical.

Well... currently I'm not doing backups on Blu-ray because there's not one in my MBP. But I do a lot of backing up of project code and database snapshots on DVD. I never don't worry about it filling the disk because blank DVDs are cheap and plentiful. Many of my project backups could even fit on a CD, but I usually use a DVD anyway because it doesn't really save much, if anything, in terms of cost, and I use the blank CDs primarily for music mix-CDs, so I don't have as many of them laying around.

Were I to have a Blu-ray drive internally, I would probably only burn full system backups periodically on the Blu-ray media, and might then do incrementals from that on DVDs. But even Blu-ray discs are getting cheaper - I've seen them in bulk for around 50 cents or less.

- Data encapsulation and isolation
What do you mean by that exactly?
I've had clients where certain bits of data must be isolated from each other and cannot be kept on the same machine or on the same network for various reasons - security being the main reason, but sometimes also for compliance with government regulations.

For many of those cases, the easiest solution is to put one of the parts of the information onto removable media (password protected, of course), and store that removable media in a safe or better yet off site in a safe deposit box when it's not being actively used. You want archival quality media for this, because sometimes it needs to be stored for years - so an external hard drive or USB memory stick isn't acceptable. I use Archival Gold DVDs for this kind of thing.

- Sneakernet
The problem is you have to deal more and more with people who don't have an ODD to read the data. Even more so when this data is burnt on BD, which is still not frequently encountered on PCs

I honestly use USB sticks more for Sneakernet now -- I mainly listed it because I *have* used ODDs for it as well in the last 2 years. (There are companies out there who have strict restrictions on using USB sticks and external HDDs on their machines, but which have no such restrictions on read-only access to optical media. It has to do with preventing people from copying data off of machines connected to their network.)

And as I said above, it's not BD because Apple hasn't given us one of those yet. That said, I have yet to encounter a machine I've had to work with which hasn't had at least an external ODD available - and the vast majority have one internally.
 
Well... currently I'm not doing backups on Blu-ray because there's not one in my MBP. But I do a lot of backing up of project code and database snapshots on DVD. I never don't worry about it filling the disk because blank DVDs are cheap and plentiful. Many of my project backups could even fit on a CD, but I usually use a DVD anyway because it doesn't really save much, if anything, in terms of cost, and I use the blank CDs primarily for music mix-CDs, so I don't have as many of them laying around.
You clearly don't live in a place where a hefty tax is levied upon blank media. Here, a 100 DVD + or -R of a known-good brand such as TDK, Philips, or HP is priced at $70.

Plus, space requirements are a big minus as optical media takes so much room for so "few" data.

Were I to have a Blu-ray drive internally, I would probably only burn full system backups periodically on the Blu-ray media, and might then do incrementals from that on DVDs. But even Blu-ray discs are getting cheaper - I've seen them in bulk for around 50 cents or less.
I tried burning incremental backups on optical media. This turned out to be an organization nightmare, as I wasn't sure of what to do with deleted or moved documents, etc. I wished there was a Time Machine-like application for ODD. To my knowledge, only iTunes allows for burning a music library to optical media.

I use Archival Gold DVDs for this kind of thing.
Are they really guaranteed to be readable in 50 years, or do you need to re-burn them periodically? And do these DVDs really cost much more?

but which have no such restrictions on read-only access to optical media. It has to do with preventing people from copying data off of machines connected to their network.)
So, DVD-RW isn't allowed? Even is this media is more expensive per-GB than HDD?

And as I said above, it's not BD because Apple hasn't given us one of those yet. That said, I have yet to encounter a machine I've had to work with which hasn't had at least an external ODD available - and the vast majority have one internally.
An available ODD doesn't imply it will be a BD. DVD players are very common on modern computers (although a small part of them still rely on CD-ROM). And if you exclude BD just because Apple hasn't provided one, you have to exclude most PC models, since they don't include it, either.
 
You clearly don't live in a place where a hefty tax is levied upon blank media. Here, a 100 DVD + or -R of a known-good brand such as TDK, Philips, or HP is priced at $70.

Ouch. No, I live in the states. I can get a 100 DVD spindle for less than $25.

Are they really guaranteed to be readable in 50 years, or do you need to re-burn them periodically? And do these DVDs really cost much more?

Well, I tend to make double (or triple) copies just in case, but in theory they are supposed to last decades - some manufacturers are claiming a guarantee of 100 years, but for most applications I'm more concerned with 20-30 years at most. They *are* quite a bit more expensive. Like 10x the price of the normal discs, although that varies a bit by brand.

So, DVD-RW isn't allowed? Even is this media is more expensive per-GB than HDD?

Actually, it's not the media -- the computers themselves don't have burners in them - only readers. So normal DVD-Rs are fine, and while I can burn a DVD-RW on my machine and they can read it, they can't change it on their machines.

An available ODD doesn't imply it will be a BD. DVD players are very common on modern computers (although a small part of them still rely on CD-ROM). And if you exclude BD just because Apple hasn't provided one, you have to exclude most PC models, since they don't include it, either.

I was responding to your comment about using BD for Sneakernet - which I don't do because I don't have a Blu-ray drive in my laptop. Even if Apple releases the next MBP with a Blu-ray (which I would be absolutely thrilled about, BTW - although I consider it highly unlikely...), I'd probably still burn DVDs for those rare occasions where I need to distribute something to other machines for the very reasons you stated.
 
Well, I tend to make double (or triple) copies just in case...

If you aren't already aware of it, check out the "ddrescue" utility. It's available on "Hiren's BootCD" as well as other places. (Note that there are several unrelated utilities called "ddrescue" and "dd_rescue".)

"ddrescue" can essentially turn a set of DVD discs into an n-volume RAID-1 mirror - as long as a sector isn't bad on *all* of the discs it can create a good ISO from the set. It also does extreme error recovery, so a block that the standard OS filesystem can't read might be readable by "ddrescue".

If recovery is not possible - it will create an ISO with unreadable sectors set to nulls. So, instead of an unreadable disc, you have a copy with one or a few files with corruption.
 
Please try to understand--just Ike I have been forced to on other issues--that you are in a MINORITY.

It's just not that common a situation (NO INTERNET+MACBOOK W/O ODD+DVD=HISSYFIT!) and it's similar to how I felt about 15" MBP losing EspressCard slot.

However, while I had no solution but to get a bigger and more cumbersome and drastically more expensive machine (17"), you have a very SIMPLE SOLUTION.

Yes, just like you and other rail and gnash about how silly it is for people to want a computer to weigh less than 5.5 lbs--it therefore seems to me downright SILLY to flatly reject the fact that you can just as easily carry the self-powered external SuperDrive to do exactly what you want. I have one, and it is equal in size to JUST TWO CD jewel cases, and weighs less than my keyring. It couldn't be easier to carry and use--which is precisely why I got it. I work in live entertainment & production, and now carry a 13" MBA for daily duties, and only burn discs for the control booth once every 6 weeks, but I usually burn 7-12 disc revisions over a two day period. Now my 15" MBP can stay with my performance rig, and I'm more mobile and less power-tethered with the MBA now.

So based on your argument, what is wrong with using the external SuperDrive?

Also, someone earlier complained of having too manu adapters sticking out of a machine, for TB dongles, or mDP->HDMI or whatnot..WHY!?!?!?!? If you're ALSO having to deal with a CABLE to lug or plug in..what difference does it make that there be a tiny dongle on the cable? Heck I keep an HDMI cabLe in my bag with a mini-DP to HDMI port connected to it...ready to go.

Like you say people are silly for not wanting a heavy laptop, I wonder why people aren't using a BAG to carry their gear.

The way folks fuss about having to use a dongle, rather than there being a port on every single exposed vertical surface on every single MacBook, REALLY makes no sense.l

That DVD you want to watch, were you carrying it in your shirt pocket? Is your power cable in your jeans?

We carry these things in computer bags, cases, or heck a plastic shopping bag, so how would it ruin one's life to put a tiny dongle in there? ROFL! :)

Argument has a few pot holes in it.

1 you have a MBA and only carry the external SuperDrive for when you need to burn once every 6 wks when mobile on that machine. The reason is you rely on a second MBP in the office to do the heavy burning along with another performance rig (or it is; maybe you had a typo).

^ the problem you fail to see is that for ME my MBP IS my ONLY machine to work on! The MacMini is strictly the kids and for family guests - I'd never trust my personal data on it (Financial records, work notes & videos, course study guides & Rosetta Stone I'd like peace/quite to work with). Unlike you I don't have the extra disposable cash for fashioning off another machine to mac me feel like a supreme mac user; nor does my profession require it.

I already carry around the power adapter - less so now with the Late-2011 machine I have since battery life is just as equal for my mobile uses as the 2011 MBA 13" Ultimate it replaces. I also carry 4 USB sticks, books, 1/2 External portable HDD's and a change of clothes (jeans/shirt to wear home after long work hours). Not heavy at all but to carry an external SuperDrive? What if I'm working with it the night before and rush to work requiring its use only to find out that its at HOME! Not like there are any other Mac users that have a portable SuperDrive (my CIO is pure MBA digital, 2 other colleagues have 15" MBP so to burn I'll be asking them to do MY work). That's just not my style to have them do that.

I'm willing to bet that you DRIVE everyday to work and when you don't its your significant other that has the car for the day or you just chose to enjoy the weather - i don't own a car.

Considering that Logic Pro/Logic Express, FCP, MS Office (as if), iLife, iTunes (does require 2Ghz C2D minimum now for encoding/decoding), Xcode or OSX Server revisions, etc will NOT require more than a Core i3/i5 (first generation anytime in the next 3 yrs), I doubt I'll need to upgrade in that time frame. OSX will and should run fantastically on my 13" MBP Corei7 2nd gen.

So ... would it matter to me if the next MBP 13/15/17" does NOT have ODD? Not really because I'm not in the market, nor the want to buy one. Sure there maybe a SWEET feature that'll make me WANT to upgrade - like the iP4S vs the IP4 but the cost will be 3x as much.

Will the 2012 MBP 13/15/17 not having an ODD bother others?!?
- that'll depend on their:
1. travel itinerary & needs
2. bandwidth capabilities during travel/mobile + cellphone/rocket stick/etc as modem.
3. The CPU performance/speed+size of storage medium chosen/available as upgrade. (I personally run Win7 & Win8Preview in VMWare Fusion: 50GB for each - 256GB SSD max in the Air's limited me own data as priority vs running any VMbased OS).
4. Finally, the ports available vs their existing investment.

^ I believe these items is what will have Apple busy 9mths ago into present as how they'll manufacture, market, and work to woo their target market.
 
If they are to be released next month, they are already shipping it and we will get what Apple wants us to buy, and not necessarily what we would like to end up with.
 
MagnusVonMagnum, if that's not indiscreet, what's your job? Seems you're both passionate and well paid.
 
MagnusVonMagnum, if that's not indiscreet, what's your job? Seems you're both passionate and well paid.

I'm an electronic engineer. I'd rather not mention who my employer is on here, though.

I've been doing song writing and recording on the side, though (I've played guitar for over twenty years and piano/keyboards for about fifteen (and 5 years playing saxophone back in middle/high school) so I can record and mix all the parts myself. I'm almost done with my first album (8 songs completed, 3 more in progress). Who knows, song writing could be my new career if I can move this thing or at least some of the tracks on it. It'd probably be more fun as I'm more of a right-brain creative type and so I can get bored easily doing repetitive tasks (something fairly common in my day job).
 
My response from another thread:

That's great for you -- you've turned your MBP into a desktop, and your situation means the bulky external ODD doesn't need to be used much. My laptop bag doesn't have enough extra room for something that size -- it's barely large enough to carry the MBP, power adapter, and headphones. When I need to carry optical disks with me (frequently), they go in envelopes because the jewel cases are *way* too bulky. I'd have to go with a larger and heavier bag - and I have shoulder issues which make heavier bags a problem.

Um... The "bulk" is there already -- as you yourself have already pointed out, the drive is very light and has a trivial effect on the weight. (In fact, if they removed the ODD and replaced it with anything else, the anything else would likely *increase* the weight...) The size of the computer is based on the *screen*, not the ODD. So the only thing you gain in terms of "lugging the bulk" is a minuscule difference in the thickness of the computer. You might be able to put more features into the MBP if you take out the ODD, but reducing the bulk is NOT a valid reason to do it.

Validity is in the eye of the beholder.
I prefer to be holdin it with one finger, spinning it like a can't with a basketball.

And... People who want an SSD, Firewire, Expresscard slots, Ethernet, etc. can do *exactly* the same thing. Same exact "simple" solution. External USB or Thunderbolt devices exist for all of those. (Um... you might also need an external USB hub...)

That said, I'm not suggesting Apple remove any of those things from the MBP, and in fact I don't think they should - even though I don't actually use some of them, EVER. Apple ought to be *improving* the machine and adding features, not removing them. So why should *you* be suggesting Apple remove the ODD?

I happen to think the internal ODD is as much a Pro feature as Firewire or an Expresscard slot or any of the rest.

Expresscard removal on the 15" is one of the most baffling decisions in human history...

"Hey Steve, do you want an SD card reader, or the card that can literally adapt to all things, especially SD?"

FW 400 in audio interfaces kills FW 800 raid drive speeds.
Also, only specific adapters are actually supported by those interfaces.
Sure, there's the $150 sonnet adapter adapter... NO THX.

Ideally they would remove FW and ethernet, add 4G (if data wasn't the new oil) and stick AT LEAST one Thunderbolt on each side...

$200 to adapt current HDDs to TB, for a measly speed boost over FW (with the exception of RAID)...
$100 to adapt portable HDDs, but those kill the chain, with no TB repeater.
Plus $50 for each cable.

7 is the TB daisy chain limit.
63 for Firewire.
That means for cheap non-RAID mass data storage, FW wins.

SSDs make TB worth it.
...But those enclosures are outrageously priced too.

I'd much rather have internal RAID 0 SSDs, which don't fit until the ODD is removed.

And... As I keep asking the people here - how do you know how common this is? You keep talking about "most of us" or "the majority". Has there been ANY study, statistics gathered, etc., which definitively states that people who still use the internal ODD on their MBPs are in the minority? Not one of you has provided any proof of this -- they simply assume it because *they* no longer need it. I assume otherwise because *I* definitely need it and know plenty of others who use it semi-regularly. It's not a valid argument because no actual data exists on *either* side.

Here's some data =)
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1276538/

It needs to be removed because it's not Blu-ray.
If it was Blu-ray than it would remain a relevant feature for a few years longer.

Optical discs are excellent for data backup.
4.7 GB... are you kidding me?
We have memory cards 30 times that capacity, the size of a mint.
If you have large files (video clips) and try to keep ****** in order, you'd have to burn some discs with large gaps unused, ex. 1)2.5GB. 2)3GB. 3) 0.3GB etc etc. You'd still have the same problem on BD, but it'd be 47/50 GB if the next file was 4GB...

Blu-ray disks are more semi-permanent. They'll remain usable for longer on this planet.
Offsite storage, preferably off-planet storage, is still a necessity.

You should no longer NEED the ODD for anything.
Games - Blizzard offers disc only games, as disc-free downloads w/cd key.
Required software/utilities that came on DVDs... if the company doesn't offer necessary files on their website, ****** them.
Movies/music - Rip w/external, or add to cloud.

What else could you need semi-regularly that warrants consuming nearly 40% of your laptops internal space?

Now, a 17" retina MBP with Blu-ray is an entirely different story.

50GB is still a lot of space.
I curse Apple and Microsoft (Xbox) for ignoring that.
4.7 GB isn't even a nutritious snack.
 
I'm an electronic engineer. I'd rather not mention who my employer is on here, though.
I can totally understand both NDA or just being ashamed of an employers getting a bad reputation laying off thousands of employees while you are seen as more "valuable" by the company.
I've been doing song writing and recording on the side, though (I've played guitar for over twenty years and piano/keyboards for about fifteen (and 5 years playing saxophone back in middle/high school) so I can record and mix all the parts myself. I'm almost done with my first album (8 songs completed, 3 more in progress). Who knows, song writing could be my new career if I can move this thing or at least some of the tracks on it. It'd probably be more fun as I'm more of a right-brain creative type and so I can get bored easily doing repetitive tasks (something fairly common in my day job).
I'm actually admiring of someone who uses his left brain at work, and the right one for fun. Even more so since you don't seem to like your job much.

FW 400 in audio interfaces kills FW 800 raid drive speeds.
Also, only specific adapters are actually supported by those interfaces.
Sure, there's the $150 sonnet adapter adapter... NO THX.

Ideally they would remove FW and ethernet, add 4G (if data wasn't the new oil) and stick AT LEAST one Thunderbolt on each side...
don't see the point in that. Why in hell should they remove what is widely accepted AND used??? The new standard that is TB can peacefully coexist with FW.

$200 to adapt current HDDs to TB, for a measly speed boost over FW (with the exception of RAID)...
$100 to adapt portable HDDs, but those kill the chain, with no TB repeater.
Plus $50 for each cable.

7 is the TB daisy chain limit.
63 for Firewire.
That means for cheap non-RAID mass data storage, FW wins.

SSDs make TB worth it.
...But those enclosures are outrageously priced too.

I'd much rather have internal RAID 0 SSDs, which don't fit until the ODD is removed.
Apple has inexplicably got cheaper as years passed. I remember the iBook came with a VGA dongle. The original MacBook came with its assorted remote. The current one is the same price, but loses those small, desirable extras.

Plus, I'm glad there's finally a good and fast standard available, but was it designed for performance, or to bring money to Intel? It seems they sacrificed flexibility and relatively low cost and high performance for much higher speed. I still get the feeling TB is in an "unfinished" state, as it was intended to be optical. Optical fiber is cheap. Logic-ladden copper cable is more expensive. I don't like the adapters galore that must come with TB-based computers.



Here's some data =)
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1276538/

It needs to be removed because it's not Blu-ray.
If it was Blu-ray than it would remain a relevant feature for a few years longer.

Optical discs are excellent for data backup.
4.7 GB... are you kidding me?
We have memory cards 30 times that capacity, the size of a mint.
If you have large files (video clips) and try to keep ****** in order, you'd have to burn some discs with large gaps unused, ex. 1)2.5GB. 2)3GB. 3) 0.3GB etc etc. You'd still have the same problem on BD, but it'd be 47/50 GB if the next file was 4GB...

Blu-ray disks are more semi-permanent. They'll remain usable for longer on this planet.
Offsite storage, preferably off-planet storage, is still a necessity.

You should no longer NEED the ODD for anything.
Games - Blizzard offers disc only games, as disc-free downloads w/cd key.
Required software/utilities that came on DVDs... if the company doesn't offer necessary files on their website, ****** them.
Movies/music - Rip w/external, or add to cloud.

What else could you need semi-regularly that warrants consuming nearly 40% of your laptops internal space?

Now, a 17" retina MBP with Blu-ray is an entirely different story.

50GB is still a lot of space.
I curse Apple and Microsoft (Xbox) for ignoring that.
4.7 GB isn't even a nutritious snack.[/QUOTE]
 
don't see the point in that. Why in hell should they remove what is widely accepted AND used??? The new standard that is TB can peacefully coexist with FW.

Simple. Efficiency.

If All devices share the same tiny multitalented port, the world is a better, more cohesive place.

In an ideal world.

We don't live in that world, so I too hope for Firewire... and expresscard retention.
 
Argument has a few pot holes in it.

1 you have a MBA and only carry the external SuperDrive for when you need to burn once every 6 wks when mobile on that machine. The reason is you rely on a second MBP in the office to do the heavy burning along with another performance rig (or it is; maybe you had a typo).

^ the problem you fail to see is that for ME my MBP IS my ONLY machine to work on! The MacMini is strictly the kids and for family guests - I'd never trust my personal data on it (Financial records, work notes & videos, course study guides & Rosetta Stone I'd like peace/quite to work with). Unlike you I don't have the extra disposable cash for fashioning off another machine to mac me feel like a supreme mac user; nor does my profession require it.

I already carry around the power adapter - less so now with the Late-2011 machine I have since battery life is just as equal for my mobile uses as the 2011 MBA 13" Ultimate it replaces. I also carry 4 USB sticks, books, 1/2 External portable HDD's and a change of clothes (jeans/shirt to wear home after long work hours). Not heavy at all but to carry an external SuperDrive? What if I'm working with it the night before and rush to work requiring its use only to find out that its at HOME! Not like there are any other Mac users that have a portable SuperDrive (my CIO is pure MBA digital, 2 other colleagues have 15" MBP so to burn I'll be asking them to do MY work). That's just not my style to have them do that.

I'm willing to bet that you DRIVE everyday to work and when you don't its your significant other that has the car for the day or you just chose to enjoy the weather - i don't own a car.

Considering that Logic Pro/Logic Express, FCP, MS Office (as if), iLife, iTunes (does require 2Ghz C2D minimum now for encoding/decoding), Xcode or OSX Server revisions, etc will NOT require more than a Core i3/i5 (first generation anytime in the next 3 yrs), I doubt I'll need to upgrade in that time frame. OSX will and should run fantastically on my 13" MBP Corei7 2nd gen.

So ... would it matter to me if the next MBP 13/15/17" does NOT have ODD? Not really because I'm not in the market, nor the want to buy one. Sure there maybe a SWEET feature that'll make me WANT to upgrade - like the iP4S vs the IP4 but the cost will be 3x as much.

Will the 2012 MBP 13/15/17 not having an ODD bother others?!?
- that'll depend on their:
1. travel itinerary & needs
2. bandwidth capabilities during travel/mobile + cellphone/rocket stick/etc as modem.
3. The CPU performance/speed+size of storage medium chosen/available as upgrade. (I personally run Win7 & Win8Preview in VMWare Fusion: 50GB for each - 256GB SSD max in the Air's limited me own data as priority vs running any VMbased OS).
4. Finally, the ports available vs their existing investment.

^ I believe these items is what will have Apple busy 9mths ago into present as how they'll manufacture, market, and work to woo their target market.

I understand and appreciate your needs. I'm starting to swing toward more keeping the ODD in the MBP, and expanding the Air line to include a 15"

Unless they get FW into the 15" Air body, I can't use it as much for audio production like I use my MBP
 
Here's some data =)
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1276538/

It needs to be removed because it's not Blu-ray.
If it was Blu-ray than it would remain a relevant feature for a few years longer.
Which is why, IMHO, they ought to be *upgrading* the MBP to a Blu-ray - not removing it.

That said, the very poll you linked is almost evenly divided between those who want it gone and those who want it kept - with the majority not caring either way.

And given that it's here on a forum where people are heavily weighted towards heavy power use rather than the average use, I'd say those numbers are actually heavily skewed and not a particularly accurate sample of the larger universe of current MBP users. It also doesn't give us any data breakdown on which of those users actually have an use an MBP, and which are Air users who want the MBP to basically become a more powerful Air. So pardon me if I don't use it as an unbiased source of data.

Optical discs are excellent for data backup.
4.7 GB... are you kidding me?
We have memory cards 30 times that capacity, the size of a mint.
If you have large files (video clips) and try to keep ****** in order, you'd have to burn some discs with large gaps unused, ex. 1)2.5GB. 2)3GB. 3) 0.3GB etc etc. You'd still have the same problem on BD, but it'd be 47/50 GB if the next file was 4GB...

Ever heard of segmenting? That's the process where a file too large to be stored on target media is broken into files just large enough to fit. If I need to archive a large backup, I'll typically turn it into a disk image, then break it into 4.7 GB segments and burn each segment on a DVD.

Of course, the vast majority of my backups are source code trees and static images - so a compressed disk image of those is almost always less than 4.7 GB, and fits on a single DVD.

And as I pointed out elsewhere in this thread - blank media, at least here in the states, is really cheap, so I don't usually worry about wasting space when I burn a disk.
 

Wow, that's a long dissertation on a forum. Interesting reading.

I just hope each person on this forum with such strong feelings at least also sends their suggestions directly the appropriate feedback at apple.com addresses .... with enough feedback from enough people you have a better chance of getting what you want ... at least in comparison to arguing on a forum.
 
Simple. Efficiency.

If All devices share the same tiny multitalented port, the world is a better, more cohesive place.

In an ideal world.

We don't live in that world, so I too hope for Firewire... and expresscard retention.
So users should dump their device every two or three years, or add galors of adapters, just in the name of efficiency?

Doesn't sound so efficient to me.

Ever heard of segmenting? That's the process where a file too large to be stored on target media is broken into files just large enough to fit. If I need to archive a large backup, I'll typically turn it into a disk image, then break it into 4.7 GB segments and burn each segment on a DVD.
How do you actually make split archives that are multiplatform-compatible? So far, I only could do it through the command line, using an old UNIX utility. But it's still not Windows-compatibles. Not that I like the platform, but sometimes, what you have on hand to read documents is only a Windows machine.

I remember that, back when I was Windows-only, I used an application that was both able to compress + split + add recovery .PAR files. That was soooo useful for burning on notoriously unreliable CD-RWs. Is there such a workflow available on unices?
And as I pointed out elsewhere in this thread - blank media, at least here in the states, is really cheap, so I don't usually worry about wasting space when I burn a disk.
Too bad they don't export at a reasonable cost.
 
I just hope each person on this forum with such strong feelings at least also sends their suggestions directly the appropriate feedback at apple.com addresses .... with enough feedback from enough people you have a better chance of getting what you want ... at least in comparison to arguing on a forum.

Actually... The time to do that was many months ago. It takes a LONG lead time to develop new hardware, so if the new MBPs are going to have/not have certain features, that decision was made ages ago and there's no real changing it now. We might be able to have some influence on the 2013 MBPs - but that will generally come from Apple's actual sales and feedback from the new generation. (For example, if the new MBP drops the ODD, and sales of the new machine are lower because of it, or there's a large enough outcry about it, they could then respond with a higher end machine with an ODD as a build option...)

How do you actually make split archives that are multiplatform-compatible? So far, I only could do it through the command line, using an old UNIX utility. But it's still not Windows-compatibles. Not that I like the platform, but sometimes, what you have on hand to read documents is only a Windows machine.

I remember that, back when I was Windows-only, I used an application that was both able to compress + split + add recovery .PAR files. That was soooo useful for burning on notoriously unreliable CD-RWs. Is there such a workflow available on unices?

I rarely worry about cross platform reading of backups so it's not been an issue for me so far. Segmenting can be as easy as using split to segment and cat to join - works on Linux or Mac. (And I've written trivial command line tools for Windows to do the same...) I've also used a variety of tools (burners, disk utilities, drive imaging tools, etc.) which do the job automatically for me over the years. I *thought* that DiskUtility had something for automatically breaking up DMG files, but maybe I'm misremembering or I used another tool for that (Toast?).

Over the last two years, I haven't needed anything so elaborate, though, and most of my backups are of the fits-on-one-DVD variety.
 
But yes, I HAVE been in MANY business trips..which is EXACTLY why I don't think carrying discs, popping them in an out, and keeping up with all that junk is convenient AT ALL.
Agreed. Fussing with accessory bits of hardware when mobile is a PITA and prone to loss and breakage. When traveling, having video on-disk rocks, though of course it means time and effort up-front to acquire it electronically or rip from disc.
And I know that there is ZERO benefit in trying to watch a BR, HD movie on a laptop screen in an airplane, over having it play from iTunes or whatever other HD source (like the Netflix HD titles they now offer).
I'll go one farther - trying to use a laptop at all on an airplane these days is at best futile and at worst dangerous. Last time I tried, the carnie in front of me damn near snapped my display by reclining without notice. Unless one's in organized crime and thus can afford first class, there simply isn't room to reasonably use a display with today's seat spacing anyway. An iPad is perhaps tolerable depending on one's size - it works great for keeping my [autistic] 3.5 year old occupied.
And for what I do, with professional audio and including VIDEO production, I do not care if my upcoming MBP I plan to purchase in the next 60 days, has any sort of ODD or not.
Today I received my second attempt at an MBP update of my 2007 unit that's become flaky. First one was standard glossy. This time $employer got the hi-res part right but still glossy. I'd love to see a refresh come out already before they try it a third time so that for once I don't get a product right before a major refresh.

----------

Ever heard of segmenting? That's the process where a file too large to be stored on target media is broken into files just large enough to fit.
Yes, I remember the 1980's.
If I need to archive a large backup, I'll typically turn it into a disk image, then break it into 4.7 GB segments and burn each segment on a DVD.
Reading your post alone burned more of my time and karma than buying a much-less-vulnerable flash drive instead. Highly-rated 32GB units can be had for all of $25.
Of course, the vast majority of my backups are source code trees and static images - so a compressed disk image of those is almost always less than 4.7 GB, and fits on a single DVD.
Cheaper yet, a wallet-devouring $7 for a 4GB flash drive
 
Reading your post alone burned more of my time and karma than buying a much-less-vulnerable flash drive instead. Highly-rated 32GB units can be had for all of $25.

Cheaper yet, a wallet-devouring $7 for a 4GB flash drive

Ah. You mean those things which can't be write protected, labeled, are easily lost and easily corruptible, for a per-GB backup cost over an order of magnitude higher than optical disks? Yeah - I use them for sneakernet and the occasional boot stick -- They aren't suitable for long term backups. You might have actually noticed that opinion already being posted here if you had actually bothered to read the conversation taking place here, instead of simply making a snarky comment which contributes nothing useful to the discussion.

As for your comment about using a laptop on a plane -- I use mine on a plane. It *can* be an issue if the person in front of me reclines too much, but I haven't had much trouble. That might change if I go for the 17" with my next machine, which is a possibility - and one of the reasons I've considered *not* going for the 17".
 
Time to rip your DVD/CD Collection! I seldom use the drive anyway. I hope it doesn't bring over heating and fan noise issues cramming a quad core bad boy into an even smaller case
 
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