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Somewhere I still have a B&W PowerMac G3, and a grey PowerMac G4 (which I used regularly right up until 2009 - now *that* was a solid machine -- and probably *still* works if I bother to dig it out and set it up...), both of which have SCSI inside, but I don't have the right cables, and some of the SCSI HDDs I want to recover data from are not Mac formats - and not all of them actually power up anymore. (I have some PC, some Linux, some Mac, and several Amiga drives, including 4 Syquest removable platters -- all of which I want to recover stuff off of eventually... :D ) But as I said, I'm not sure it's worth the time and effort to get them working again, or the money to find the right cables.
Seems you have a large house... Or is it a warehouse?

If drives don't power up anymore, you're pretty much screwed. Even exchanging boards only work for identical models.

Cables, have you looked there?
Startech
DX.com
There are SCSI cards, but pricey.


Well, I'm mostly concerned with 10-20 year timeframes, so for work, I've been using Archival Gold discs in normal burners - and I tend to make multiple copies, and store them in different physical locations.

For longer term stuff, if you need it, as you pointed out, 50-100 year manufacturer claims simply aren't testable, so I'd make even more copies, and set up a review and renew program - where you set up a plan to review the media after a period of time, and recopy it to new, more modern, media periodically. You can never have too many copies of data, IMHO.
Are Archival Gold type discs available as DVD+R from all major brands? Or is it a brand in itself?

You CAN have so many copies it simply takes way too much time tor even periodically review them.

E.g., do you seriously expect to need a document so old you don't even remember you created it? I'm not talking about job-specific requirements, such as keeping raw experimental data for 20 years or more.

So I personnaly keep a number of copies proportionally to data's importance, which, so far, happens to be inversely proportional to its size. Downloaded movies exist in just one copy, music collection, virtual machines and hard-to-get application get two (mainly as a safeguard against VirtualBox fussiness), documents have three, and experimental data have five.

Incidently, none of these is located on optical media since I have never found a unified way to catalog all that. How do you manage versioning on optical media / hard drives in the "meat" world?

(There will always be some kind of archival media being produced despite people who think everything will be stored on the net - because there will always be a need to archive huge amounts of data. Our ability to produce large quantities of data is increasing just as fast, if not faster, than media capacities, and definitely faster than network speed increases, and I honestly don't see that changing any time soon...)
Storing on the net is just a cheap way to get physical separation. I learned the hard way that when the most recent version of a file is stored online, but the provider is experiencing issues... You're pretty much screwed.
 
Does anybody else think that the MBP update might wait for Mountain Lion to be the big hardware update with the new operating system? I know Apple has released new hardware before a new OS, but IF the MBP is to get a high-resolution (HiDPI - 'retina') display as some rumours are suggesting (and work on certain mac applications), won't we have to wait until Mountain Lion anyway? Unless Apple are building the HiDPI mode into Lion 10.7.4, which will be released to coincide with the new MPBs in say 2-6 weeks?
 
Apple is standards-observant.
You mean like they are now offering other companies patents as free of charge?
(nano-sim case);)
I know CF is slowly but surely disappearing... What other memory card formats are in common use?
Sony's new video cameras use Memory Stick & SxS.
Guess where do those SxS's go for reading without any adapters or readers?
If the hybrid drive craps, you can't use the laptop anymore until the expectedly hard-to-find part is repaired. If discrete media readers or drives fail, you still have some sort of failover, not least because replacements are easier to find.
Hybrid drives ssd part is meant to be used as second storage next to other internal ssd or hdd storage, not as the only one.
 
You CAN have so many copies it simply takes way too much time tor even periodically review them.

E.g., do you seriously expect to need a document so old you don't even remember you created it? I'm not talking about job-specific requirements, such as keeping raw experimental data for 20 years or more.
Depends on how much data you need to archive.
If a decade a go you needed to archive 10 cd's in a month or year and had 2 sets of them. You can now renew the other set to one dvd. After another decade you can combine 10 dvd's in one bd. And so on.

I've filled a few hdd's with video projects, that now sits on a shelf as a second backup and might not work after a next decade.
Primary back-ups are filling a NAS or two and I'm not buying new NAS'es and put the old ones to some warehouse or garage. So in few years, I will renew those backups to bd(xl). If I would produce more content to backup, I would put them to data tapes.
Storing on the net is just a cheap way to get physical separation. I learned the hard way that when the most recent version of a file is stored online, but the provider is experiencing issues... You're pretty much screwed.
That's why everypody should have multiple backups. If one in the cloud disappears, you still have the other somewhere else and make another backup in some other medium.
I have lost only once my data as technical failure. I managed to insert the molex connector the wrong way in the dark under a desk!
Other times it has only been a (tired) user's error...
 
You mean like they are now offering other companies patents as free of charge?
(nano-sim case);)
I meant it as observant, not as creator, although creating standards and offering it free of charge for all to take could be considered standard, even if not strictly so (not ISO rated). Inversely, having a specification ISO rated doesn't makes it standard IMHO if no one except the original creator is able to implement it successfully. E.g. Microsoft's Office XML, OpenDocument.

Sony's new video cameras use Memory Stick & SxS.
Guess where do those SxS's go for reading without any adapters or readers?
Sony is one of the worst example to take as a company that always tried to push its proprietary interfaces or devices but never licensed them to anyone. Since a few years they relaxed their disastrous stance a bit, but their reputation for over-priced devices, crappy-software, and low-yield remain. But I digress.

They go external card readers.

Hybrid drives ssd part is meant to be used as second storage next to other internal ssd or hdd storage, not as the only one.
It will be way too tempting for manufacturers to use it as the only storage device in computers, hence my comment about failure points.

Depends on how much data you need to archive.
If a decade a go you needed to archive 10 cd's in a month or year and had 2 sets of them. You can now renew the other set to one dvd. After another decade you can combine 10 dvd's in one bd. And so on.

I've filled a few hdd's with video projects, that now sits on a shelf as a second backup and might not work after a next decade.
Primary back-ups are filling a NAS or two and I'm not buying new NAS'es and put the old ones to some warehouse or garage. So in few years, I will renew those backups to bd(xl). If I would produce more content to backup, I would put them to data tapes.

That's why everypody should have multiple backups. If one in the cloud disappears, you still have the other somewhere else and make another backup in some other medium.
I have lost only once my data as technical failure. I managed to insert the molex connector the wrong way in the dark under a desk!
Other times it has only been a (tired) user's error...
Ten CD-R a month for ten years make 1200 CD after a decade. Even if that is not that big by today's standards, you still would have to put the 1200 discs in a reader somewhere to dump them, six by six, onto 200 DVDs, then, a decade after, onto BR (BTW, if you bought a DVD burner 10 years ago, you must have been pretty well-off, as they retailed for $500 and more). I don't consider NAS to be any better than externally-attached HDD, as they are only marginally faster, but much more expensive. What would be the use for hard-to-find-pricey-as-solid gold tape readers? Having removable media but having to spend hundreds if not more for readers isn't that future-proof. Plus, those tapes are vulnerable to magnetic fields, or x-rays, etc.

From what you state, your strategy simply isn't applicable to someone relatively poor or semi-nomad, such as students or junior scientists. We simply don't have the places or money to store data.

And you still haven't solved the versioning and time required for "refreshing" issue. Particularly problematic is when you want to change part of the file tree, and you end up with outdated tree one discs, but still valid data.
 
I really hope they don't turn the 13-inch into a wimpy machine. There's a reason why I don't want an Air. I want power. In fact, I want the 15- and 17-inch specs. However, I don't want to lug a giant screen around with me. 13 is more than large enough for my purposes, but I want high computing. I will not be persuaded to buy the 15-inch no matter the specs. I'd just settle for the 13 but then buy a top-of-the-line PC desktop. I can understand if the casing might be too tiny to house better chips, but if the reason is just to force people to buy the larger Macs, that's a bad idea.

I hope they also keep the optical drive. I make lots of use of it, more than I do with a USB stick.


It is pretty simple: Apple just needs to put a 14" screen into a 13" chassis as Samung does. Then you have bigger screens and still less "to lug around you".

Unfortunately, nobody from the nerd/marketing fraction pushes this killer feature and there are almost no posts about it. Kind of obvious, nobody loses but everybody wins with bigger screens. Either Apple slept on it or can't/doesn't want to introduce it and hence remains silent to avoid protests.

C'mon y'all know it's a must have.
 
Hm. I was planning on buying a new Macbook Pro when they came out (this would be my first Mac laptop), but I need a disc drive. That's one aspect I simply can't compromise on and I can't believe Mac is whipping out the disc drives on all their laptop models. That's a ridiculous move and will probably decrease some sales.

Macbooks are all ready slim and sleek, if someone wants them to slimmer and sleeker, just tell them to get an Air.

However, as a graphic designer, the updated cards on these models look utterly fantastic. You don't have to be a gamer to appreciate a good graphics card.

But, in the end, no way I'm paying $2000 for a laptop without a disc drive. Crossing my fingers it won't remain like this though because I would love to get my hand on a Macbook like is rumored.
 
Seems you have a large house... Or is it a warehouse?
It's a house -- I have a 3 bedroom house that I live in myself. The front bedroom is a computer room. Off the top of my head, I've still got 2 C64s, 4 Amigas, 9 PCs of various vintages (several I custom built), the aforementioned G3 and G4, two intel iMacs, and three Macbooks in and around the house. Right now, my late 2009 15" Macbook Pro is my primary machine, and I still use my 2007 iMac (with upgraded memory...) for games and assorted other things - but the rest of the machines aren't even hooked up anymore - and I know several of them are no longer working.

I'm looking at getting a new 15" or 17" Macbook Pro to become my primary machine late this year, and toying with the idea of building a new Windows gaming PC to play Skyrim and Mass Effect 3 -- although if that Thunderbolt PCI Express card cage I've read about comes out relatively soon and actually *does* let you run a high end video card from a laptop - I might actually put Bootcamp on the new Macbook Pro for gaming purposes and skip the Windows PC entirely. (IMHO - that's the future of Mac gaming - and will finally put to rest the notion that Mac's aren't capable of being gaming machines, a notion I've been trying to dispel for years...)

Are Archival Gold type discs available as DVD+R from all major brands? Or is it a brand in itself?

From a google search I think "Archival Gold" is technically a brand owned by Delkin, but possibly not a trademarked brand, as I own disks from other manufacturers labeled "Archival Gold" as well. I note most other manufacturers are calling their disks "Gold Archive" or "Gold Archival" or "Archive Gold" now. There are quite a few brands which make them. Delkin is claiming 300 years on their www.archivalgold.com website, which I consider ridiculous - but I'd feel more or less secure with any of them for 20 years or so.

Incidently, none of these is located on optical media since I have never found a unified way to catalog all that. How do you manage versioning on optical media / hard drives in the "meat" world?
I usually just label a version with the date and project version number - and then I mostly only worry about the latest version, although the older versions are stored anyway. Incrementals are labeled with the original label and the increment number.

I've never needed to do it, but I'm aware of a couple companies who have things automated - they use printable archive disks, record an index on each archive, print a label with barcode based on the disk ID, and store the index and disk ID in a database. Periodically they archive the index/disk ID database as well, so to find anything, they simply need to load the index/disk ID archive, search for what they're looking for to get the disk ID, and then use a barcode reader to find the correct disk. And then there are the high end disk stack readers/writers which can go through an entire stack of optical media in an automated fashion - but they aren't cheap.

Storing on the net is just a cheap way to get physical separation. I learned the hard way that when the most recent version of a file is stored online, but the provider is experiencing issues... You're pretty much screwed.
I've done that too -- the problem there is bandwidth and storage space limits in addition to the provider issues you mentioned, not to mention you need a reliable internet connection on your side, too. You can avoid the provider issues by using the cloud - Amazon S3, for example, is pretty reliable, but it costs you more depending on how much you store and transfer.
 
From a google search I think "Archival Gold" is technically a brand owned by Delkin, but possibly not a trademarked brand, as I own disks from other manufacturers labeled "Archival Gold" as well. I note most other manufacturers are calling their disks "Gold Archive" or "Gold Archival" or "Archive Gold" now. There are quite a few brands which make them. Delkin is claiming 300 years on their www.archivalgold.com website, which I consider ridiculous - but I'd feel more or less secure with any of them for 20 years or so.
At $300 for 100 discs, I hope they would be good for that long. Those are pretty expensive for a claim that can't be verified.

I usually just label a version with the date and project version number - and then I mostly only worry about the latest version, although the older versions are stored anyway. Incrementals are labeled with the original label and the increment number.
What kind of projects are those?

I've never needed to do it, but I'm aware of a couple companies who have things automated - they use printable archive disks, record an index on each archive, print a label with barcode based on the disk ID, and store the index and disk ID in a database. Periodically they archive the index/disk ID database as well, so to find anything, they simply need to load the index/disk ID archive, search for what they're looking for to get the disk ID, and then use a barcode reader to find the correct disk. And then there are the high end disk stack readers/writers which can go through an entire stack of optical media in an automated fashion - but they aren't cheap.
I feel uncomfortable handing my data to any sort of company... Home-based systems don't exist? I knew of an electronic carousel that was able to spit out a disc according to a search in a connected computer, using a proprietary software.

I've done that too -- the problem there is bandwidth and storage space limits in addition to the provider issues you mentioned, not to mention you need a reliable internet connection on your side, too. You can avoid the provider issues by using the cloud - Amazon S3, for example, is pretty reliable, but it costs you more depending on how much you store and transfer.
That's the point, precisely. bandwidth is most often very limited (100 kilobytes/s max), storage can't be economically extended above 100GB. Internet connection isn't that reliable, and you forgot: client software can be a real pain, especially if in Java or any other interpreted language.

I generally try to avoid US-based datacenters as much as possible, unless privacy is proven.
 
Sony is one of the worst example to take as a company that always tried to push its proprietary interfaces or devices but never licensed them to anyone. Since a few years they relaxed their disastrous stance a bit, but their reputation for over-priced devices, crappy-software, and low-yield remain. But I digress.
They go external card readers.
As lons as sony makes superior cameras you'll just have to cope with their memory card "standards". For example the new NEX-FS700 looks like to be way beyond anything else in it's price range. And panasonic with P2's has always been even worse. With SxS you can use SD in an adapter.
It will be way too tempting for manufacturers to use it as the only storage device in computers, hence my comment about failure points.
What exactly is this failure point? 2 storages and 1 cable?
If the cable breakes, you replace it?
I think broken ssd is as likely inside ODD case than it is inside a laptop anyway.
Ten CD-R a month for ten years make 1200 CD after a decade. Even if that is not that big by today's standards, you still would have to put the 1200 discs in a reader somewhere to dump them, six by six, onto 200 DVDs, then, a decade after, onto BR (BTW, if you bought a DVD burner 10 years ago, you must have been pretty well-off, as they retailed for $500 and more). I don't consider NAS to be any better than externally-attached HDD, as they are only marginally faster, but much more expensive. What would be the use for hard-to-find-pricey-as-solid gold tape readers? Having removable media but having to spend hundreds if not more for readers isn't that future-proof. Plus, those tapes are vulnerable to magnetic fields, or x-rays, etc.

From what you state, your strategy simply isn't applicable to someone relatively poor or semi-nomad, such as students or junior scientists. We simply don't have the places or money to store data.

And you still haven't solved the versioning and time required for "refreshing" issue. Particularly problematic is when you want to change part of the file tree, and you end up with outdated tree one discs, but still valid data.
And if in 90s' you would have made 10 cd's a year, you'd have only 120 of them. If you don't have money to store data, then you just don't store it. If you live as nomad and can't carry your archive, then you just don't do it.
Nobody can solve these problems.

Versioning isn't problem either. If you want to use it, you just buy a backup software that handles deduplicating. Software shouldn't mind what is your choise of media.

If you produce a lot of valuable data and want to archive it and use eg. 2 hours a month to back it up, is it really so hard to use one additional hour to refresh old back ups? Yes, that would mean 360 hours a decade, which sounds bad?

Data tape is the most used media in critical archiving and backupping in big business. If there would be better options they wouldn't use it. LTO and DLT has been backward compatible for decades and those tapes last for decades in proper enviroment.

Maybe the easiest way is just let the Time Machine do it's job and when the hdd fills up, buy a bigger one. Then put the old one on the shelf and wait few years for optical or tape media ti get cheaper and then move data from hdd to tape or optical. Only problem with this is if the hdd currently in use, breaks up. So you need to have another hdd for redundancy.

I've been making low budget video projects, that I can't afford to fully back up with Time machine, so I have to do manual backups anyway. But maybe I'll start using Time machine for the rest...
 
I don't know what the difference between "from the 13" air 13? It is faster CPU and differentiate today perhaps more port (the)? A retina display, may? Perhaps they will use more space to add independent video card? The latter seems unlikely, because in 15 provide integrated graphics rumor ". Or 13 "Pro will be the first to get ivy Bridge, two USB 3.0 ports along to thunderbolt port, and the air with Sandy Bridge will hold to, until the summer.
 
Bring it on! But please leave my ODD alone if you aren't going to replace it with a dual SSD or SSD and HDD CTO.

Oh, and don't skimp on the power.

Oh, and try not to burn my lap off.

Better yet, only make it thinner if you can still give me what I love about the MBP.

Sir, your laptop is almost all booted up and ready to go. Would you like an iphone 5 prototype while you wait?
 
Does anybody else think that the MBP update might wait for Mountain Lion to be the big hardware update with the new operating system? I know Apple has released new hardware before a new OS, but IF the MBP is to get a high-resolution (HiDPI - 'retina') display as some rumours are suggesting (and work on certain mac applications), won't we have to wait until Mountain Lion anyway? Unless Apple are building the HiDPI mode into Lion 10.7.4, which will be released to coincide with the new MPBs in say 2-6 weeks?

HiDPI is in Lion, although hidden. The "Air Display" software allows you to use the new iPad as a Mac monitor. It allows the use of HiDPI to make the interface a reasonable size.

All the Mac hardware is due a refresh, and sales are stalling as people wait you the new machines. I think Apple will bring out the new computers as soon as possible.

It will probably be a case of Apple bringing out a Lion update to expose the HiDPI mode as soon as there is hardware to make use of it.
 
As lons as sony makes superior cameras you'll just have to cope with their memory card "standards". For example the new NEX-FS700 looks like to be way beyond anything else in it's price range. And panasonic with P2's has always been even worse. With SxS you can use SD in an adapter.
Agreed. Only a few years back they made good cameras, but way too overpriced. They are finally learning something.

What exactly is this failure point? 2 storages and 1 cable?
If the cable breakes, you replace it?
I think broken ssd is as likely inside ODD case than it is inside a laptop anyway.
HDD + SSD + ODD in the same box make 3 failure points. And only 1 cable understates there's some sort of chip inside that controls the switching between all three devices. If this chip fails, all data, from all drives, is inaccessible. That is in addition of individual HDD, SSD, ODD reliability. Plus, when so many devices are crammed inside the same enclosure by the same manufacturer, they tend to be lax on each one's quality. E.g., cell phones. Most of the time: crappy cameras, crappy batteries, slow media, slow computer sync, etc.

And if in 90s' you would have made 10 cd's a year, you'd have only 120 of them. If you don't have money to store data, then you just don't store it. If you live as nomad and can't carry your archive, then you just don't do it.
Nobody can solve these problems.
Having less possessions doesn't mean your data is less valuable than other's. Even with sufficient money, the question you must ask is "Is that data really WORTH that cost?", much the same way banks are not looking for best security, but just find the balance between expected theft cost and security cost. Only when the first is high they will implement better security. Much similar is the North American way of building doors and choosing locks: when theft risk is so low, what's the point in installing a steel-reinforced 3-locking points, Medeco-equipped door when you can buy a 5-pin deadbolt in any hardware store for 1/100th of the price?

Versioning isn't problem either. If you want to use it, you just buy a backup software that handles deduplicating. Software shouldn't mind what is your choise of media.
Except, these software don't seem to exist. Obviously a write-once media cannot be dealt with the same way as a read-write media can, and a very large media isn't handled the same way as multiple, smaller media. Also the reason why I don't backup documents that often changes to optical media, since I don't know how to manage them efficiently.

If you produce a lot of valuable data and want to archive it and use eg. 2 hours a month to back it up, is it really so hard to use one additional hour to refresh old back ups? Yes, that would mean 360 hours a decade, which sounds bad?
That doesn't sound too bad, of course. I'm being optimistic here, but the point is, it's essentially a manual process, hence, error-prone. Of course, that is only for ONE disc. If you have many of those, say, 10, which isn't big by anyone's standards nowadays, you're looking at 20 hours a month just to manage backups. That's a LOT of time, and the reason I kept on asking what strategies and software you and other forum-dwellers used to manage large backups without it getting unwieldly.
Data tape is the most used media in critical archiving and backupping in big business. If there would be better options they wouldn't use it. LTO and DLT has been backward compatible for decades and those tapes last for decades in proper enviroment.
So far, no one has been able to come up with definitive advantages of this rare and extremely expensive media. In home or small settings, you can't expect to readily access the necessary readers. Hence my comment why I don't find backup-ing to BluRay to be a good idea in 2012.

Maybe the easiest way is just let the Time Machine do it's job and when the hdd fills up, buy a bigger one. Then put the old one on the shelf and wait few years for optical or tape media ti get cheaper and then move data from hdd to tape or optical. Only problem with this is if the hdd currently in use, breaks up. So you need to have another hdd for redundancy.

I've been making low budget video projects, that I can't afford to fully back up with Time machine, so I have to do manual backups anyway. But maybe I'll start using Time machine for the rest...
In fact, I'm using a leaner approach. I assumed that the chances of having both internal HDD, TM HDD, SpiderOak and external FW800 drive for active projects fails at the same time in different places are practically nil. If one were to fail, I would replace it immediately. I wanted to buy a bigger TM drive, but so far, failed to see what would be the use in having more than 8 months of versioned backup. I'm more into redundancy. Admittedly, it has been only since I started working on my thesis I considered more serious backups than the occasional clone.
 
HDD + SSD + ODD in the same box make 3 failure points. And only 1 cable understates there's some sort of chip inside that controls the switching between all three devices. If this chip fails, all data, from all drives, is inaccessible. That is in addition of individual HDD, SSD, ODD reliability. Plus, when so many devices are crammed inside the same enclosure by the same manufacturer, they tend to be lax on each one's quality. E.g., cell phones. Most of the time: crappy cameras, crappy batteries, slow media, slow computer sync, etc.

Actually, you already have single points of failure on some of this - on the Laptop circuit board. Of course, the advantage of having the failure there over having it on the Hybrid drive is that if the laptop circuit board fails and you replace it, the drive's data is still accessible.

Honestly, I'm not very concerned about the possibility of a Hybrid drive's circuit board failing -- I'm more concerned with the drive failing partially. Most disk drive failures are mechanical - and with an HDD, SSD, ODD in the same unit, if one of those three fails, you can't replace it without having to also replace the other two, which means transferring data from the other two to the new drive.

Still, if presented with the option, I might go for it. I'm thinking that before an ODD / anything else hybrid became available as part of any Mac, though, it would have to be widely available elsewhere -- and I can't find any actual ODD/anything hybrids which are actually for sale. The one link which started this part of the discussion looks like an early announcement to me.

But as noted, this is probably a moot point -- Apple will do whatever they will do and it's probably far too late to direct things. Since pretty much ALL the rumors about Apple ditching the ODD and making the MacBook Pro thinner can be traced entirely to a single source of mixed reliability (Digitimes), I'm not too worried about it right now. We'll see when we see.
 
Actually, you already have single points of failure on some of this - on the Laptop circuit board. Of course, the advantage of having the failure there over having it on the Hybrid drive is that if the laptop circuit board fails and you replace it, the drive's data is still accessible.

Honestly, I'm not very concerned about the possibility of a Hybrid drive's circuit board failing -- I'm more concerned with the drive failing partially. Most disk drive failures are mechanical - and with an HDD, SSD, ODD in the same unit, if one of those three fails, you can't replace it without having to also replace the other two, which means transferring data from the other two to the new drive.
We used different examples to talk about the same thing. Failure of the drive, partial or complete, asks for a replacement during which ALL data is inaccessible, or at risk. Whatever the case, you still lose productive time.

Still, if presented with the option, I might go for it. I'm thinking that before an ODD / anything else hybrid became available as part of any Mac, though, it would have to be widely available elsewhere -- and I can't find any actual ODD/anything hybrids which are actually for sale. The one link which started this part of the discussion looks like an early announcement to me.

But as noted, this is probably a moot point -- Apple will do whatever they will do and it's probably far too late to direct things. Since pretty much ALL the rumors about Apple ditching the ODD and making the MacBook Pro thinner can be traced entirely to a single source of mixed reliability (Digitimes), I'm not too worried about it right now. We'll see when we see.
I would also probably be interested in such a drive, much the same way I was first very wary about glass-plattered hard drives.
 
Actually, you already have single points of failure on some of this - on the Laptop circuit board. Of course, the advantage of having the failure there over having it on the Hybrid drive is that if the laptop circuit board fails and you replace it, the drive's data is still accessible.

Honestly, I'm not very concerned about the possibility of a Hybrid drive's circuit board failing -- I'm more concerned with the drive failing partially. Most disk drive failures are mechanical - and with an HDD, SSD, ODD in the same unit, if one of those three fails, you can't replace it without having to also replace the other two, which means transferring data from the other two to the new drive.
First, hybriDrive doesn't include hdd, only odd+ssd. I don't understand where this "triple play" came from...

Secondly, ssd is far more reliable than hdd, so this should be seen as an improvement to data being safe, not the other way around. Hdd can break instantly, but ssd usually can tell when there is going to be a problem.

Thirdly, there has been laptops with 3 mass storages for ages. Moving one storage inside the other doesn't change much. If there's mechanical failure in odd, you can still use ssd. If there's electrical failure in sata bus, it will fry motherborads chip, so no storages will work.
Still, if presented with the option, I might go for it. I'm thinking that before an ODD / anything else hybrid became available as part of any Mac, though, it would have to be widely available elsewhere -- and I can't find any actual ODD/anything hybrids which are actually for sale. The one link which started this part of the discussion looks like an early announcement to me.

But as noted, this is probably a moot point -- Apple will do whatever they will do and it's probably far too late to direct things. Since pretty much ALL the rumors about Apple ditching the ODD and making the MacBook Pro thinner can be traced entirely to a single source of mixed reliability (Digitimes), I'm not too worried about it right now. We'll see when we see.
Like I have said, I don't mind using external odd. It would be nice to have more compact laptop.
What I'd wish for is that we shouldn't carry half a dozen gadgets with laptop.
Suberb answer to this would be "hyperdrive" that would include hybrid bd-burner and tb-hub. Small and nice design by Apple...
 
Except, these software don't seem to exist. Obviously a write-once media cannot be dealt with the same way as a read-write media can, and a very large media isn't handled the same way as multiple, smaller media. Also the reason why I don't backup documents that often changes to optical media, since I don't know how to manage them efficiently.
Really?
I don't have first hand experience on these "real" backup softwares, but I've been under impression, that you can choose how often you want to have full backup and when just incremental. By these settings you can minimize wasting storage space.
And by the way, you can use rewritable optical media!
Real backup softwares can automatically handle large set of storage. You just have to label the discs, tapes or drives.
That doesn't sound too bad, of course. I'm being optimistic here, but the point is, it's essentially a manual process, hence, error-prone. Of course, that is only for ONE disc. If you have many of those, say, 10, which isn't big by anyone's standards nowadays, you're looking at 20 hours a month just to manage backups. That's a LOT of time, and the reason I kept on asking what strategies and software you and other forum-dwellers used to manage large backups without it getting unwieldly.
So far, no one has been able to come up with definitive advantages of this rare and extremely expensive media. In home or small settings, you can't expect to readily access the necessary readers. Hence my comment why I don't find backup-ing to BluRay to be a good idea in 2012.
Reading a full cd takes 2 minutes. Reading a full dvd takes 10 minutes. And you can do something else at the same time.
I think using any media for backupping isn't still very popular.
Majority of people have so little to back up, that they just buy one hard drive and after few years another. Or burn few dvd's a year.
"Digital bomb" will arrive later, when childrens want to see how their parents lived or people after retirement want to check what happened a decade or a few ago.
I'm not sure that current TM is handy in archiving.
Can you export full snapshots from it?
What to do when you ran out of space?
What if you don't want infinite versioning, but you want to keep one version every year or every 100th version?
 
Really?
I don't have first hand experience on these "real" backup softwares, but I've been under impression, that you can choose how often you want to have full backup and when just incremental. By these settings you can minimize wasting storage space.
And by the way, you can use rewritable optical media!
Real backup softwares can automatically handle large set of storage. You just have to label the discs, tapes or drives.
Agreed, but still looking for proper software to manage that.

And, unfortunately RW media is being extremely expensive, compared to HDD, on a per-GB basis. As you don't want to buy a DVD-RW less than 1,50$ apiece, that still puts it at 31¢/GB, which is three times what a typical HDD costs. In this case, wouldn't it be better to have a RAID-1 (don't remember the exact name) setup so as to get security AND capacity at a lower cost?


Reading a full cd takes 2 minutes. Reading a full dvd takes 10 minutes. And you can do something else at the same time.
More or less. One don't really have the time to concentrate in only 10 minutes.
I think using any media for backupping isn't still very popular.
Majority of people have so little to back up, that they just buy one hard drive and after few years another. Or burn few dvd's a year.
"Digital bomb" will arrive later, when childrens want to see how their parents lived or people after retirement want to check what happened a decade or a few ago.
I still think not many people do archive their stuff properly. Perhaps because bigger stuff tend to be downloaded material available for free on the Internet, hence, instead of managing ever bigger storage media, they'd rather be risking them. The worst that could happen is spend a week or two dowloading massive archives. No that big deal.
I'm not sure that current TM is handy in archiving.
Can you export full snapshots from it?
What to do when you ran out of space?
What if you don't want infinite versioning, but you want to keep one version every year or every 100th version?
I think you cannot automatically export full snapshots. But as the ability to delete a single snapsot while others are being mended together exist, I believe this wouldn't be very hard to do for a coder.
When you run out of space, you usually buy a bigger drive. There are hacks to clone the existing backup onto the new drive, but no Apple-supported version that I know of.
TM does approximately that: saves every hour for 24 hour, then a backup a day after a week, then a backup a week after 30 days... Redundant backups are automatically deleted or merged, and you can delete them one by one as you wish. Granted, TM doesn't provide many options in its user-accessible interface, but it's usable. There have been small applications built to access hidden preferences that we can access from the command line.
 
Graphics Card Please!

All I want is for the 13 inch to have a dedicated graphics or even the option to have one. That piece of crap HD3000 is far to slow for anyone who wants to do any sort of video/photo editing or play light games. Also please put in USB 3.0 (I know you guys don't really think it is the future, but it has been and will continue to be industry standard for at least 2 more years). One extra apple should consider is 4g LTE built in capabilities on some of their lines, or again make it an option.
 
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