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Smartphone Manufacturers 'Lukewarm' on Sapphire, Call Material Impractical Due to Cost and Supply
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I think you miss the point -- if Apple is using sapphire, they won't just use a solid chunk as Corning wants you believe. Using thin layers allows some flexibility in most of the aforementioned materials, and doping of said material means the world (carbon in steel, for example). The better questions to ask: Is it pure alumina? Laminated or not? Bonded to silicates? Plastic? With what bonding agent(s)?
Those answers will more thoroughly determine its flexibility as they have profound differences on the various force moduli.
As I mentioned before, doping means quite a bit. I'm med chem, so I don't know materials science very well, but a lot of materials considered "inflexible" do have a fair amount of elastic give. You can start to alter Young's modulus with small % changes in composition, as shown here for base glass. Unsurprisingly, bulk sapphire has a much higher Young's modulus (345 GPa according to here, but again it comes back to composition and bonding to substrate -- are they even using pure alumina?
I would love for someone with a materials chemistry background to clarify all this.
EDIT: For reference, I also looked up Corning's Willow Glass, which is marketed as flexible substrate glass. It has a nominal E of 70-80Gpa, though it is borosilicate glass so its more shatter prone. Unsurprisingly, Corning recommends using Gorilla glass as its bonded cover glass, which clearly doesn't impact the flexibility too much.
Technically they did, in partnership with GTAT ($578mil deal). Sure, GTAT is running the plant, but it's basically a built-to-order CMO.
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The $2000+ is not going entirely to the manufacturer. The manufacturer, carrier, local and federal governments all have their hands in that pie. But the cost of the material falls squarely on the manufacturer - who may not be able to pass it on entirely to the customer resulting in degraded margins.
This. That demo video showing a guy from GT Adv. Tech. trying to scratch his IP5 with a piece of concrete likely had a solid (say 1mm thick) sapphire chunk as a his demo screen protector. They never showed him trying to bend that at all, and they don't show the bending in the video at the GT AT lab either.
I'd say that the leaked IP6 top glass video is probably legit and apple is using a sapphire laminate to achieve both hardness and impact resistance, not a single piece of sapphire. In fact, its all in the patents previously filed by apple.
SAPPHIRE LAMINATES
Thats from last september. A more recent one involves treating the sapphire to allow for more durability in sensitive parts of the panel (edges, homebutton cut-out, etc)
SAPPHIRE COMPONENT WITH RESIDUAL COMPRESSIVE STRESS
Car windshields are made of laminated glass for strength and shatter resistance, eye glasses are usually made of (polycarbonate) plastic for lightness, clarity, and strength, and there are even some fiber optic cables made of plastic though those have a lot more attenuation than standard glass core fiber. You attack me but my proof is in my experience: my screen protector has been on my iPad mini Retina for 9 months and I have great clarity, colors, and no scratches either on my screen protector or on my underlying screen.
I am comfortable in my $30 expenditure and would do it again (insurance = piece of mind). We can keep arguing bit it seems we will have to agree to disagree and move on though I'm sure you will continue to try to prove something here.
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I've got nothing to prove. As the one who is making stuff up the burden is all on you. But by all means, keep making stuff up, and keep forking over money for replacement screen protectors that iPhone 6 users won't be needing. The reviews for your favorite product say they start to peel off after a couple months...
It doesn't need a "wide ranging problem" to counteract issues like scratches, that is how good technology is made. Of course there are several doubts about the practical advantage of having extremely scratch-resistant surfaces for many, be it the competition or the people who simply have grown up with ZAGG screen protectors or even those who just don't care about minor scratches, yet I find it a good thing to have the screen as scratch-resistant as possible, especially if it doesn't come with a steep price tag. All of my i-devices have scratches on them, after regular usage. So why would I not welcome something more scratch resistant?!
And leaving everything else aside, it's probably not a bad thing for Apple to have more control over the production, the ties between GT and Apple seem tighter than they were between Apple and Corning, which probably sets some people off too...
I really don't recall ever giving an opinion about whether or not there was a need to combat scratches. I simply asked a question about when scratches became an issue or wide ranging problem (much better term btw, conveys exactly what I meant... thx). We just see the scratch issue differently, and that's totally okay. It's more relevant for you than me. If I was getting an issue addressed it would be fracture resistance. I said earlier, never had scratches but I have dropped and cracked a few screens. But that's neither here nor there.
As for Apple having more control over production, honestly, I don't care. I don't say negatively. I just don't care about Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Google, or any of the others for that matter. To me they are simply tech companies that manufacture products. I like tech for tech's sake. I have products from all the above companies and numerous others. I buy what I like regardless of vendor. I like Audi no more for producing my A5 than I do Ford for producing my sweet, sweet baby (69 Mustang) that I spent a good portion of my youngest child's college fund restoring. Fingers crossed for scholarships.
Just kidding... I do like Audi 1% better.I really don't recall ever giving an opinion about whether or not there was a need to combat scratches. I simply asked a question about when scratches became an issue or wide ranging problem (much better term btw, conveys exactly what I meant... thx). We just see the scratch issue differently, and that's totally okay. It's more relevant for you than me. If I was getting an issue addressed it would be fracture resistance. I said earlier, never had scratches but I have dropped and cracked a few screens. But that's neither here nor there.
As for Apple having more control over production, honestly, I don't care. I don't say negatively. I just don't care about Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Google, or any of the others for that matter. To me they are simply tech companies that manufacture products. I like tech for tech's sake. I have products from all the above companies and numerous others. I buy what I like regardless of vendor. I like Audi no more for producing my A5 than I do Ford for producing my sweet, sweet baby (69 Mustang) that I spent a good portion of my youngest child's college fund restoring. Fingers crossed for scholarships.
Ok, I'll attempt to make it easy - do you think that a more scratch resistant screen is a benefit?
Obviously cracked screens still will be an issue, so far your experiences with Gorilla Glass sound quite bad - lots of shattering - eventually we'll see how Apple's product will perform (if the rumors are correct, of course).
Yep, technically it doesn't matter who makes what, but ultimately it can be an advantage to be ahead of the competition in some ways and sapphire might well turn out to be a good example.
OMG I've had another brainwave, have to share
What if the Sapphire is not for the screen
!! Think about it, what is sapphire? A jewel. Who loves jewels? Girls. What if your phone was made of blue sapphire, pink sapphire. The girls would love it, and no more need for expensive covers for the BACK of the phone. It's a win, win people.
You really think apple invented the ssd? They were hardly the first to use one in a computer.
Reminiscent of qualcom downplaying desktop class 64 bit processors, while privately changing their underwear over Apple's technological lead.
Hopefully, sapphire is thinner, lighter and clearer. It would be nice if it was less prone to scratching or cracking and we'll have to wait to see what Apple claims about the product. Speculation is pointless and only encourages these unreliable attention seekers.
I've never scratched a screen, and Apple has no interest in cracked screens from dropped phones (if you haven't figured that out by now), because dropping not covered by the warranty.
I'd like my screen to be clearer and my phone to survive a few more drops, but I'm waiting for the official word from the manufacturer first, then test the ACTUAL released product to see how it performs.
Look over here… shiny new phone. Meanwhile the US government pays your tax money to civilian corporations to start wars in Europe, the Middle East and Africa on behalf of oil companies.
Hopefully, sapphire is thinner, lighter and clearer. It would be nice if it was less prone to scratching or cracking and we'll have to wait to see what Apple claims about the product. Speculation is pointless and only encourages these unreliable attention seekers.
I've never scratched a screen, and Apple has no interest in cracked screens from dropped phones (if you haven't figured that out by now), because dropping not covered by the warranty.
I'd like my screen to be clearer and my phone to survive a few more drops, but I'm waiting for the official word from the manufacturer first, then test the ACTUAL released product to see how it performs.
Look over here… shiny new phone. Meanwhile the US government pays your tax money to civilian corporations to start wars in Europe, the Middle East and Africa on behalf of oil companies.
What's impractical about this being strong ?
Maybe this may be a Fad because who the hell would be bending their iphones just to test this ? It's only the screen, so the back will be ruffed up...
Plus components don't use sapphire... so, bring all that to the table, and suddenly it may not seem that good after all..
I dunno... Good that u can bend it and all, but no one will be doing that in the real world all the time...
Maybe ok on an iWatch, since you do wear that... How often you you wear your phone 365 days a year ?
The car crushing is probably brutal, and unless we start seeing every iPhone 6 owner trying run over their phones, and say "Look, i could it scratched", , it will stand up to *almost* anything.
What we are probably asking Apple is, "I want my phone to be indestructible" Not going to happen.
Maybe this may be a Fad because who the hell would be bending their iphones just to test this ? It's only the screen, so the back will be ruffed up...
Plus components don't use sapphire... so, bring all that to the table, and suddenly it may not seem that good after all..
I dunno... Good that u can bend it and all, but no one will be doing that in the real world all the time...
Maybe ok on an iWatch, since you do wear that... How often you you wear your phone 365 days a year ?
The car crushing is probably brutal, and unless we start seeing every iPhone 6 owner trying run over their phones, and say "Look, i could it scratched",
, it will stand up to *almost* anything.What we are probably asking Apple is, "I want my phone to be indestructible" Not going to happen.
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Is it a benefit? Yes. How beneficial? As it relates to me, not much. That's not to discount the benefit others see. You misinterpret my experience with GG. The cracked screens (3) I experienced were the result of idiocy. 2nd floor balcony drop, roof of a moving truck, hit by baseball (alcohol involved). In none of those situations was there a reasonable expectation of survival. Gorilla Glass under normal circumstances has been great. As I said I don't use screen protectors and my phones have no scratches.
If the sapphire from GTA brings fewer scratches, good. If it brings other properties as well, the great. As long as competition drives further innovation and progress in the industry, I don't care who has the advantage.
I'm pleased with my purchase and think it's a small price to pay to protect a $500 tablet. You've showed nothing to "prove" you're right, you keep regurgitating the same tired rhetoric.
You are free to not buy a screen protector as I am free to do so. You think it negatively affects the color and clarity and I don't see a difference. You think $40 is too much to pay but I think it's a good price for peace of mind. We have differing opinions, you won't change my viewpoint and I won't change yours.
Move on...nothing to see here...
I can't believe there are some negative comments about sapphire on a phone. Your non-progressive limited thinking is not about what apple is. They use high quality materials and they do extensive testing to make sure it is in their and our best interest. Most normal people just scratch their phones because they are prone to it when on a hard surface. A normal responsible adult will not drop an iPhone from a far distance and if they do they probably shouldn't be owning a $650 smartphone in the first place. I have not had a case on any of my iPhones since the iPhone first came out. I have never had any visible serious scratches nor have i dropped it on concrete once in my life. I don't understand why people drop things this expensive in the first place and the whole otter box 80 dollar case industry is beyond dumb to me to pay that for a plastic case. Anyway my point is this is a good thing that no other companies plan on this right now. Most phones are still plastic too if you don't count htc phones. iMacs have been aluminum as well as MacBooks for many many years and other companies still seem cheap and plastic next to them. I applaud apple for using high quality products and this is the next evolution of that.
So by your own admission, you don't need sapphire crystal. Perhaps you could tell us what difference this product, that would undoubtedly make your next phone more expensive, do for you?
I'm still on an iphone 4, its been naked for the majority of the time I've had it (which was pretty much since it released) I still don't have any visible scratches. Any scratches I have are on the metal parts.
I'm not sure sapphire is worth the extra cost.
I'm not sure sapphire is worth the extra cost.
What laptops used an SSD drive at the time when the first MBA was released? By the way, the poster you replied to said "Steve Jobs introduced" and not "Steve Jobs invented", so I suppose we just saw an attempted strawman argument (claiming that someone makes an argument that they are not actually making, and then refuting the argument that was never actually made).
I honestly don't think they'll be using it for the iphone, not yet anyway. The purchase of the sapphire manufacturer is to make small iwatch glass.