This is interesting. When I installed SL on my Mac mini 2006 my guest account was removed. I didn't think anything about it at the time because I didn't lose any data.
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Snow Leopard Bug Responsible for Loss of User Data Gaining Notice
- Thread starter fpbecker
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I bet they did upgrade computers with guest accounts activated and still didn't see the bug. There seems to be more to this than simply having a guest account activated. The first law of software support - don't confuse the language in the bug report with the root of the problem.
If Apple's on it, I'm willing to bet a shiny iPhone that it's more than 12 people.
I've installed Windows XP probably several thousand times by now (mostly by image, but you get the idea). Even if I had the same issue on every single one, it'd still be a small sample size of the install base. 28 computers isn't exactly to scale either.
Currently I run 10.5, 10.6 , xp, vista and win 7 on various machines.
Frankly I remember little about my 95/98 experiences, I just remember that they worked and I got my work done.
I've enabled the Guest account in the past for when inlaws come to stay with us from out of town. They need internet access and email access, nothing more. They don't need to save anything. Using Guest was just convenient in those circumstances. It also gave them a sense of privacy since their browsing history was wiped on logout--not vital, but still a nice little perk.
I agree...and have been a technologist since the very early 80s and work in high tech today.
However, I own 6 computers and I back up only 1 of them about 2 times a year. Average users (and even advanced users) never ever back up their data/computer/whatever. Yes, it is somewhat easy to use a program on the Mac or Windows to back up the data. But people just never do it. Even if they can schedule it. There are countless reasons why, but they just don't back up. It's not that they don't WANT to have a nice recovery set in case the house explodes, but they just seemingly feel there is no need or at least feel there is an extremely remote chance of a catastrophic all-your-stuff-is-gone scenario (like the odds of your house exploding and literally every single thing is totally unrecoverable). And contrary to belief, there is a high percentage of Windows users out there who own a computer for 4+ years without any glitches/data loss and purchase a new machine...and they are then concerned about HOW to migrate the data (which is very simple even if you did it manually copying data to an external hard drive...but there are plenty of $20 programs to automate it for you as well as the free migration tool built into Windows).
I've had a few drive crashes in my 29+ years but every one was recoverable without a backup. Maybe this knowledge or luck is what keeps me from backing up more often. Or...maybe it's me wondering why I need to back up 500GB of movies/mp3s/data every month to a 2nd drive which is just as likely as the first to fail (and no, I'm not going to back up 500GB to 100+ dvds). And eventually, yes, I/you will need more drive space for backup(s). And, finally, a backup is never a 100% guarantee. Never.
I'm just saying that backups are not a reality for 99% of the users out there for a multitude of reasons. Businesses? Yes...they normally have legal obligations as well as "compliance" obligations...not to mention they would very likely go out of business in a week if data got nuked and there was no "backup". Let's also not forget that so much of our lives and computer usage is now "stored" on the internet...pictures on Shutterfly, email on Google/Yahoo/Hotmail, online "lockers" if you really want to access your data truly anywhere in the world and/or if you are unsure how to backup your own computer, etc. In the eyes of so many people these days: "There ain't much data left on my personal computer".
-Eric
Performance - check SMART status
Teekayess
You may have a HD bad block problem - a failing HD
Have you checked your SMART status
Free using http://www.volitans-software.com
Apples' smart status in about this mac is not dependable.
I had very similar problems. Your backup may be failing because you cannot copy files from a bad sector or block. It will just stop your backup which will then fail.
Try backup manually to another HD (you should always have 2). If you encounter copy errors then I would heavily suspect a failing HD.
If you have a failing on SMART status then recover what you can and change your hard drive - use the opportunity to upgrade to bigger or faster and then look at partition options (another subject).
good luck
Machine: 17" MacBook Pro - first model introduced with Intel
I installed Snow Leopard and my hard drive icon disappeared off the desktop.
Then I noticed degradation of performance of routine tasks (click and drag, opening files...................etc
Question: what now?
teekayess
Teekayess
You may have a HD bad block problem - a failing HD
Have you checked your SMART status
Free using http://www.volitans-software.com
Apples' smart status in about this mac is not dependable.
I had very similar problems. Your backup may be failing because you cannot copy files from a bad sector or block. It will just stop your backup which will then fail.
Try backup manually to another HD (you should always have 2). If you encounter copy errors then I would heavily suspect a failing HD.
If you have a failing on SMART status then recover what you can and change your hard drive - use the opportunity to upgrade to bigger or faster and then look at partition options (another subject).
good luck
Deleted, or just moved?
Interesting point posted by asdasd, over at AI:
I dont think the bug as reported could be true.
user logs in as guest.
Logs out.
Operating system asks if he wants to delete folder.
Ok, and it deletes.
At that stage the deletion code can have no rights to remove the default home folder. The process will be running as the user logged in.
Furthermore nobody has reported that is took a real long time to log out of their guest account - a sure sign of stuff being deleted from a larger account. It could take minutes, even up to half an hour, to delete a home dir. They dont do anything special with regards to API afaik, so they traverse the directory list, and delete filenodes.
However something then happens on login. It is possible that the existence of the guest user has somehow changed the user_ids elsewhere in the system. And that the user is logging into an account with a uid of (say) 502, not 501 - which would create a new home folder.
If anybody on these forums - which are large - sees this can you confirm anything like this.
That means the data could be there. Certainly recoverable in most cases.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=1498551&postcount=81
Interesting point posted by asdasd, over at AI:
I dont think the bug as reported could be true.
user logs in as guest.
Logs out.
Operating system asks if he wants to delete folder.
Ok, and it deletes.
At that stage the deletion code can have no rights to remove the default home folder. The process will be running as the user logged in.
Furthermore nobody has reported that is took a real long time to log out of their guest account - a sure sign of stuff being deleted from a larger account. It could take minutes, even up to half an hour, to delete a home dir. They dont do anything special with regards to API afaik, so they traverse the directory list, and delete filenodes.
However something then happens on login. It is possible that the existence of the guest user has somehow changed the user_ids elsewhere in the system. And that the user is logging into an account with a uid of (say) 502, not 501 - which would create a new home folder.
If anybody on these forums - which are large - sees this can you confirm anything like this.
That means the data could be there. Certainly recoverable in most cases.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=1498551&postcount=81
Kinda like a layoff, not an issue unless it happens to you. They should nut up and fix this before they release updated Pro Apps.
It's a bug
While I am sure some are sensationalizing this in a gotcha attempt, it's amazing that the usual "macrumors apple defense team" is still in denial that this data loss is real.
Apple has even acknowledged the problem and working on a fix. It's real. stop drinking the kool-aid and grow up. No corporation is perfect. You cannot possibly recreate every scenario when beta testing. That's why they sell to early adopters so they can continue the beta testing on their behalf
This just debacle underscores why corporations and professionals don't run out and upgrade right away. And to the IT assistant who upgraded ~30 or so computers to SL, your IT dep't is bonkers. updating their entire mac environment to a new OS without proper testing is lunacy
While I am sure some are sensationalizing this in a gotcha attempt, it's amazing that the usual "macrumors apple defense team" is still in denial that this data loss is real.
Apple has even acknowledged the problem and working on a fix. It's real. stop drinking the kool-aid and grow up. No corporation is perfect. You cannot possibly recreate every scenario when beta testing. That's why they sell to early adopters so they can continue the beta testing on their behalf
This just debacle underscores why corporations and professionals don't run out and upgrade right away. And to the IT assistant who upgraded ~30 or so computers to SL, your IT dep't is bonkers. updating their entire mac environment to a new OS without proper testing is lunacy
MacRumors is very slow this time. German (online) magazines have been writing about this for quite a while now, and Apple confirmed the problem but so far their developers are unable to locate the source of the problem and fix it.
Then you've never had a real drive crash... Restoring a drive that, when turned on, only goes "whiiiiiiiiiirrrr-CLICK.... whiiiiiiiine-CLICK..." is impossible without spending loads of $$ per megabyte.
Seems to be at least somewhat rare, and definitely doesnt occur in all cases. Seems that it's difficult to reproduce as well.
Best course of action would be disable the Guest account and keep the issue in perspective.
But if Apple so much as hiccups, everyone's all over it. It's Apple, and these things are unexpected and uncharacteristic of the company. When your brand is synonymous with quality and desirability, this kind of coverage is bound to happen.
This. In my company we've had 100% working installations of Vista for well over a year, (yet only 2 computers out of over 600 have it), and we've been rigorously testing Windows 7. Even then, 99.9% of our computers run XP and will continue to do so until the hardware croaks. Upgrading OSes quickly is absolute madness.
Yeah I heard they give those things away in Cereal boxes now.
Apple acknowledged the bug. Get over it Apple isn't perfect.
Nah, you can get that back sometimes. Stick it in the freezer in a ziplock bag for about 30 minutes. SpinRite does wonders too.
We acknowledge that denial is not only a river in egypt. Get over it. No body's 'perfet' (<-
)Snow Leopard deletes apps files
Yes, I certainly read (and understood) your post. According to every diagnostic I have run (three different programs run multiple times) the hard drive is fine. It was replaced in December. What isn't fine is the absence of apps, the deletion of apps in Time Machine. And now the deletion of iPhoto. At least a half dozen Mac users, some more, some less sophisticated than I, and the "Apple authorized dealer" in Dhaka have looked at the problem and the conclusion is software.
I don't care what it is as long as it can be fixed. But right now I'm running Leopard 10.5.8 and everything is smooth and wonderful, except for the fact that I am having to download new apps., some at expense.
And yes, I did an upgrade on Snow Leopard, twice, then I did a clean install twice (with a new disc). And the damage appears to already have been done. Time machine was used three times at major intervals of backup and no apps.
cheers,
teekayess
Yes, I certainly read (and understood) your post. According to every diagnostic I have run (three different programs run multiple times) the hard drive is fine. It was replaced in December. What isn't fine is the absence of apps, the deletion of apps in Time Machine. And now the deletion of iPhoto. At least a half dozen Mac users, some more, some less sophisticated than I, and the "Apple authorized dealer" in Dhaka have looked at the problem and the conclusion is software.
I don't care what it is as long as it can be fixed. But right now I'm running Leopard 10.5.8 and everything is smooth and wonderful, except for the fact that I am having to download new apps., some at expense.
And yes, I did an upgrade on Snow Leopard, twice, then I did a clean install twice (with a new disc). And the damage appears to already have been done. Time machine was used three times at major intervals of backup and no apps.
cheers,
teekayess
This. It actually makes a lot of sense. I don't see --how-- it would be possibly for data to be actually deleted, unless there is a BIG bug causing this. To me this always looked like a issue with permissions.
Then again, some reports insist that data was actually lost and cannot be recovered. What's the official response from Apple?
paranoia
This deletion bug would not exist if Apple wasn't so paranoid and would implement a public beta program. This major bug isn't their only problem though. I've noticed quality assurance slipping quite a bit. I myself have one of the bad MacBook Pro laptops.
This deletion bug would not exist if Apple wasn't so paranoid and would implement a public beta program. This major bug isn't their only problem though. I've noticed quality assurance slipping quite a bit. I myself have one of the bad MacBook Pro laptops.
Regardless its an issue, its been acknowledged by Apple as such. It doesn't matter how many people it effects this is a really large potential issue. So spin it anyway you want to about how many people it effects or trying to make it seem like its not possible. Its an acknowledged issue. Apple stepped up and acknowledged it now they need to fix it fast.