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If apple isn't going to sue us for talking about snow leopard, and developers are reading this forum, here is a huge bug that you guys should know about. It's reproducible too.

If you use boot camp to instal windows ( or even linux) and then you erase the installed operating system (windows/Linux) you will not be able to boot back into OS X. I've reproduced this bug several times. And it's only in 10.6.

It occurs with disk utility and the system starter preference pane. The way to make snow leopard work again is to hold option on start and select OS X (it's the only option). If you don't hold option you will boot into a black screen. It's really scary let me tell you. Thank God for Time Machine

Furthermore you will have to hold down the option key every time you boot unless you go into startup disk preference pane and reselect OS X.
An annoying bug that has pretty much existed since the first Boot Camp beta. Considering how Apple touts EFI as being "superior" to BIOS, you'd think it'd be able to detect a simple thing such as just one OS being installed.
 
Ok so I haven't updated yet, but in build 10A394 I noticed that when you click and hold the mouse button on an open app in the dock, this shows up:

[edit: removed per request]
Was this in the previous build? I didn't see any other posts regarding this and wasn't sure.
 
It could also have to do with any machine that won't handle more than 4GB RAM.

64-bit really isn't necessary if your machine can only handle 4GB or less.

I believe there would be some improvements regardless of memory limit.

Furthermore, I just noticed that the reason my Rev C MacBook Air cannot boot into 64-bit kernel is because of its audio drivers. Apparently, that's the ONLY thing on the list that's not 64-bit (excluding the 6.0 items)
 
Ok so I haven't updated yet, but in build 10A394 I noticed that when you click and hold the mouse button on an open app in the dock, this shows up:

[edit: removed per request]
Was this in the previous build? I didn't see any other posts regarding this and wasn't sure.

Ooooo I'm really liking the new black motif. Looks like SL is heading towards that direction.
 
Maybe some good news but you know a rumor...

... is just that....

I have been going on and on on the SL Dev Forums about my iMac 7,1 not being able to run the 64 bit kernel; well some chap from Cupertino about all but came out and said that I should just be patient; it was coming.

How cool is that... unless it doesn’t happen... :eek:
 
Ooooo I'm really liking the new black motif. Looks like SL is heading towards that direction.

Ya, it was better when it was actually black (or at least black-ish) but now it's like a blurry dark grey glass and doesn't look nearly as good.
 
Wow, the kernel is completely final in this build. I wonder if this signals the end of these revised builds, with RTM coming in a couple of weeks?
 
$10 is a drop in the bucket.... come on. If your at working age $10 is nothing.... if your living at home with Mommy then just ask her... because its probably the least amount of money you've borrowed in a long while.

All this debate over $10 is just depressing.

I nerver said I was mad about it! I just said that some people don't actually find a reason for 10 bucks, just the common: Why the 10 bucks, when Micro$oft is giving it away for free (for computers made online)?
 
Um, Apple, its time to ditch the Aqua scrollbars already.

When are they gonna finally drop those friggin' aqua scrollbars already?!? Not only do all the iApps use those nice new gray scrollbars, but just the other day I noticed that the Template Chooser windows in each iWork app uses those new scrollbars too! Lastly, both the "RSS Button" and "Loading Button" to the right of the URL in Safari 4 are both in that new gray scrollbar color. Are they really waiting until the RC to finally drop this huge UI ball?? LOL ;)
 
Ya, it was better when it was actually black (or at least black-ish) but now it's like a blurry dark grey glass and doesn't look nearly as good.

I disagree, having a flat black makes it look too...flat and sort of boring. The transparency adds a dynamic feeling.
 
As a whole snow leopard is moving towards stability, but I was expecting something more in this seed, something like shown in these two pictures. First picture shows that three microsoft word documents are down into the dock icon and second picture shows the navigational panel in the Finder.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184845&stc=1&d=1248494643

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184847&stc=1&d=1248494771

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but there are some serious problems with this recommendation. First off, Dock notifications should not specify how many windows are minimized; rather, they tend to say how many unread messages have not been read by the user (this is mostly used in networking applications, most notable Mail, iChat, Adium, Skype, etc).

Secondly, the Finder already has such a navigation bar. Simply select "Show Path Bar" from the Finder's View menu. Besides, having a path bar a the top like that is ugly, even though if you right-click (or command-click) the folder icon at the top you get the folder's path.

Again, sorry to disappoint you, but these ideas wouldn't "work" well.
:apple:
 
interesting that Windows 7 went RTM (Release to Manufacturing), which I think is the equivalent of Apple's Gold Master, two days ago, yet will be released a month after Snow Leopard (which isn't Gold Master yet). goes to show that doing everything in-house (hardware + software) allows you to get products to market faster. Microsoft has to share Windows 7 with many third parties first...

Technet and MSDN subscribers get access to 7 RTM and product keys on August 7th - The following day it's going on my MBP! To save repeatedly pestering my dev friend who has been kindly supplying me the SL Bootcamp beta drivers are their any changes on the bootcamp side since 402?
 
Just updated then on my MacBook - they still haven't made X3100 into a 64bit driver - I swear I'll be raising hell and spitting tacks of Apple is screwing its customers who purchased a laptop under a year ago.

I hope that the X3100 were so atrocious that they required a virtual re-write rather than Apple giving their customers to the royal screw job.
 
i just found this in the extension?

Don't Steal Mac OS X

When do you see this info on your mac when you use it?
 

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Just updated then on my MacBook - they still haven't made X3100 into a 64bit driver - I swear I'll be raising hell and spitting tacks of Apple is screwing its customers who purchased a laptop under a year ago.

I hope that the X3100 were so atrocious that they required a virtual re-write rather than Apple giving their customers to the royal screw job.

64 bit is all about Memory Addressing ... enjoy it in 32bit. If you can install 8gb of Ram in your MacBook then you have a case. Apple is not screwing anyone...
 
64 bit is all about Memory Addressing ... enjoy it in 32bit. If you can install 8gb of Ram in your MacBook then you have a case. Apple is not screwing anyone...

The benefit of 64bit on Intel is not just a matter of more addresses; it is also about accessing those extra registers, benefits of NX which is only available in 64bit mode - and there are benefits when it comes to the likes of video and audio compression. If it were just a matter of memory addressing then I wouldn't give a toss but it is more than just that.

The X3100 GL component is 64bit, so I wouldn't be surprised if is just a matter of them fixing up the drivers given that artefacts have suddenly started appearing - have they modified the driver recently?
 
It could also have to do with any machine that won't handle more than 4GB RAM.

64-bit really isn't necessary if your machine can only handle 4GB or less.
Thats what I thought. 64 Bit is really just more addressed memory....
That isn't quite correct:

  • With PAE (enabled by default on OSX) the OS can use more than 4GB RAM without any issue (the apps will still be limited to 4GB/each)
  • For x86-64 (so Intel and AMD CPUs), the 64b mode also doubles the number of available registers, doubles the number of SSE (XMM) registers and includes the NX (XD for intel) bit which isn't available in 32b mode.
  • 64bit allows mmaped files bigger than 4GB (so you can mmap a complete DVD iso or bigger and let the OS handle paging), which greatly simplifies the code (and often leads to better perfs as well rather than manual on-demand loading)
  • Highly numerical code (e.g. encryption software) love bigger registers.
they just need to hurry up with iTunes and iWork, and iLife going 64-bit
iWork wouldn't benefit much from 64b. Being correctly coded would help iWork more, but that's all. iLife apps on the other hand are computation-intensive (so more registers could help) and often memory-starved.
When are they gonna finally drop those friggin' aqua scrollbars already?!? Not only do all the iApps use those nice new gray scrollbars, but just the other day I noticed that the Template Chooser windows in each iWork app uses those new scrollbars too! Lastly, both the "RSS Button" and "Loading Button" to the right of the URL in Safari 4 are both in that new gray scrollbar color. Are they really waiting until the RC to finally drop this huge UI ball?? LOL ;)
How about you start by using the Graphite appearance instead of the Blue one?

Gives you aqua scrollbars in a nice gray theme instead of the dreadful blue default.
 
When are they gonna finally drop those friggin' aqua scrollbars already?!? Not only do all the iApps use those nice new gray scrollbars, but just the other day I noticed that the Template Chooser windows in each iWork app uses those new scrollbars too! Lastly, both the "RSS Button" and "Loading Button" to the right of the URL in Safari 4 are both in that new gray scrollbar color. Are they really waiting until the RC to finally drop this huge UI ball?? LOL ;)

I think it's about time for a change. We've seen these same scroll bars since Mac OS X 10.0. released in 2001.
 

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The benefit of 64bit on Intel is not just a matter of more addresses; it is also about accessing those extra registers, benefits of NX which is only available in 64bit mode - and there are benefits when it comes to the likes of video and audio compression. If it were just a matter of memory addressing then I wouldn't give a toss but it is more than just that.

That isn't quite correct:
  • With PAE (enabled by default on OSX) the OS can use more than 4GB RAM without any issue (the apps will still be limited to 4GB/each)
  • For x86-64 (so Intel and AMD CPUs), the 64b mode also doubles the number of available registers, doubles the number of SSE (XMM) registers and includes the NX (XD for intel) bit which isn't available in 32b mode.
  • 64bit allows mmaped files bigger than 4GB (so you can mmap a complete DVD iso or bigger and let the OS handle paging), which greatly simplifies the code (and often leads to better perfs as well rather than manual on-demand loading)
  • Highly numerical code (e.g. encryption software) love bigger registers.

You two listed some of the reason why switching to x86-64 is more then just about memory addressing (here is my spin on that) however folks are ignoring a few more above the hardware level.

For one being able to use the 64b Objective-C runtime you get many performance enhancements in message dispatch, cost of exception handling, performance of garbage collection (GC), several new features related to sub-classing, etc. All of these could not be done under the 32b runtime without breaking binary compatibility with existing applications but since switching to LP64 breaks binary compatibility in and of itself it gave Apple an opportunity to make improvements. Apple has further improvements planned for the 64b runtime and they are able to do those without breaking binary compatibility because of the better runtime interface they defined for the 64b runtime.

Second the kernel / user space boundary is much improved (directly mapped under 64b) allowing for MUCH faster/efficient system calls. A handful of related improvement exist in this space, more so when the kernel is running in 64b as well.

Third Apple's stated goal is to have no 32b processes running on Snow Leopard. Why? Well as soon as a 32b process tries to load then all of the 32b segments of all of the libraries/frameworks it uses also has to be loaded in addition to the already loaded 64b libraries segments. This puts pressure on the memory systems and IO pathway that could be avoided. Obviously this switch over isn't going to happen over night but Apple is pushing themselves and 3rd party developers to make it happen as fast as they can (been pushing this for the last two WWDC).

...could list a handful of other reasons/benefits as well...

Switching an application to use 64b gives an application and the end user several benefit beyond the ability to have a large virtual memory space. ...so folks please stop with saying it only about the memory... it isn't.

It also isn't about being able to address more physical memory (nor does it require having more then 4 GiB of physical memory to get the benefits). The memory subsystem of Mac OS X has been able to address greater then 32 bits of physical memory since 10.2.8 IIRC and Apple built out that capability in concert with new hardware since then. Of course when running the kernel in 64b the memory subsystem can more directly address physical memory above the 32b range and the kernel has more room in its own virtual memory space to store physical page mapping information, etc. The latter is one of the main reasons Apple is pushing for a 64b kernel and for 3rd party kext developers to get 64b versions released.

I should also note you should only need a CPU that supports x86-64 to get 64b support for processes under Leopard / Snow Leopard (1). The ability to run the kernel under 64b could be limited however by chipset / EFI capabilities but I would need to dig into the guts of that issue to get you a correct answer.

(1)
$ sysctl hw.cpu64bit_capable
hw.cpu64bit_capable: 1
 
64 bit is all about Memory Addressing ... enjoy it in 32bit. If you can install 8gb of Ram in your MacBook then you have a case. Apple is not screwing anyone...
Does 6 GB count? Only until recently can we get 8 GB in an Apple notebook. So yes the majority of users are screwed regardless of memory addressing abilities.
 
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