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Snow Leopard Build 10A421 Seeded to Developers

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shawnce

macrumors 65816
Jun 1, 2004
1,442
0
Eidorian said:
Does 6 GB count? Only until recently can we get 8 GB in an Apple notebook. So yes the majority of users are screwed regardless of memory addressing abilities.
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Having more physical memory only helps if your working set (set of memory pages being actively used by the applications, etc. you are running) is larger then the amount of physical memory in the system (aka paging to disk). Physical memory is an orthogonal issue to using LP64...

You don't need huge amounts of physical memory or even physical memory above the 4 GiB barrier to get all of the many non-memory related benefit of switching to a 64b process and/or 64b kernel. Heck having a 64b virtual address space and say only 2 GiB or physical RAM you will still gain the ability to memory map huge files, etc. greatly simplifying coding and file access while letting the system deal with managing the physical memory page pool for you.

(see the post right above yours and others for more details).
 
G

G-Force

macrumors 6502a
Nov 25, 2006
659
22
Antoni Nygaard said:
i just found this in the extension?

Don't Steal Mac OS X

When do you see this info on your mac when you use it?
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That kernel extension has been there since Mac OS X Tiger if I recall correctly. As far as I know, it is some sort of decrypting extension.
 
J

john7jr

macrumors regular
Aug 14, 2003
188
0
MikhailT said:
Extensions != applications. They are like drivers in Windows world. When you have 64bit Windows, you can't use any 32bit drivers, you must have all 64bit drivers installed, there are no exceptions. 64 bit kernel can not run any modules that's 32bit. It has nothing to do with applications, OS manages the application and can run both 32bit and 64bit applications due to a clever way of emulating 32bit world for 32bit application.

Little Snitch has an extension (again a driver) that hooks to the kernel to do it's stuff, unfortunately the extension is 32bit, which means it can not be run in 64bit kernel. Same for LLC drivers for Logitech mouse.

Your airport card probably doesn't have a 64bit extension, so its ignored when booting 64bit kernel. But you can boot without an airport, you can't boot without a graphic card.
Click to expand...

You just said exactly what I said. What was your point?

I was clarifying to someone that just because you can't use the 64-bit kernel doesn't mean they still can't use 64-bit apps. The two are completely unrelated.

And you proved my point, that you can still boot the 64-bit kernel if you have 32-bit extensions. Those extensions just don't load.
 
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swingerofbirch

macrumors 68040
Oct 24, 2003
3,658
4,484
The Amalgamated States of Central North America
I like the minimized windows showing up under Expose although it might get very crowded.

I have a suggestion for Expose with minimized windows though. First off, I frankly wouldn't mind if minimized windows just dissapeared into the app icon as I can't really make out one text edit document from another when they're minimized in the dock. You would then click and hold on the App icon and see the active windows on top and the minimized ones below.

However, keeping the current system as it is, I would suggest a modification. Expose and minimizing are different than Windows minimizing in that they maintain the idea that you are working literally with the same UI element: the window. The window gets smaller and goes in the dock, or in expose it gets smaller and fans out with other windows so you can choose it.

However, that paradigm breaks with expose showing minimized windows, as from what I can tell from the desktop pics you all have shown, the minimized window continues to be displayed in the dock. The idea: Expose could have a quick animation in which the minimized windows "genie" (used as a verb) out of the dock into their place as small windows at the bottom of the Expose screen, and then if they are not selected "genie" back into the dock when another window is chosen.

This would maintain the paradigm that each window is unique, represents itself, and that you are not viewing a copy of another window that exists somewhere else.

I think the animation would need to be quite fast in order to not be cumbersome to people on a day to day basis.

What do you all think?
 
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edmundo

macrumors member
Jun 18, 2009
30
0
shawnce said:
It also isn't about being able to address more physical memory (nor does it require having more then 4 GiB of physical memory to get the benefits). The memory subsystem of Mac OS X has been able to address greater then 32 bits of physical memory since 10.2.8 IIRC and Apple built out that capability in concert with new hardware since then.
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That's true at the OS/kernel level (thanks to PAE on x86), but not at the process level: even if the OS is able to handle and address 32GB of RAM (I think that's the hardware limit on mac pros and XServes ATM), a given 32b process still won't be able to excess 4GB of VMem. Though PAE is the reason why 64b userland processes on top of a 32b kernel works in OSX (and still allows you to do useful stuff).
 
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shawnce

macrumors 65816
Jun 1, 2004
1,442
0
edmundo said:
That's true at the OS/kernel level (thanks to PAE on x86), but not at the process level: even if the OS is able to handle and address 32GB of RAM (I think that's the hardware limit on mac pros and XServes ATM), a given 32b process still won't be able to excess 4GB of VMem. Though PAE is the reason why 64b userland processes on top of a 32b kernel works in OSX (and still allows you to do useful stuff).
Click to expand...

Note in the sentence you quoted I was only talking about physical memory and not virtual memory, processes don't see physical memory addresses. Of course a 32b process is limited to 32 bits worth of virtual memory (4 GiB address space).
 
lemonade-maker

lemonade-maker

macrumors 6502
Jun 20, 2009
497
4
iBug2 said:
NeXT was absorbed by Apple so by the time they were working on OS X, they were practically Apple employees. And I'm pretty sure that the development of OS X under Apple hood was much more extensive than what NeXT did.
Click to expand...

I "bet" that Apple was actually making the hardware and software and just relabeled so that university engineering and physics depts would buy them.
 
mdriftmeyer

mdriftmeyer

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2004
3,826
2,004
Pacific Northwest
steviem said:
The kernel is actually a really small part of the OS. The Dock idea did come from NeXT, so the whole interface could be derived from both NeXT and MacOS. But OpenSTEP isn't the bulk of OSX code.

If you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO, you could compare the source code of Darwin and and OpenSTEP just to allay your fears that it isn't the same as what NeXT made over 15 years ago...
Click to expand...

The same architects for Openstep 4.x moved to Apple. I should know, I worked at both companies.

The number of personnel working went from roughly 25 core engineers to well over 200, but the Architecture of ObjC/Cocoa MVC has maintained true to its Openstep API compliancy with the addition of key areas like KVC, Garbage Collection, and other additions to ObjC without violating any of the MVC model of Openstep.

Some of the architects and key developers left when Cocoa was languishing for a while and Carbon was continually being extended.

With the demise of Carbon more of my former colleagues are actually interviewing and moving back to Apple to lend their expertise in Cocoa, Mach and more back to Apple.
 
macintoshtoffy

macintoshtoffy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 1, 2009
921
0
New Zealand
mdriftmeyer said:
The same architects for Openstep 4.x moved to Apple. I should know, I worked at both companies.

The number of personnel working went from roughly 25 core engineers to well over 200, but the Architecture of ObjC/Cocoa MVC has maintained true to its Openstep API compliancy with the addition of key areas like KVC, Garbage Collection, and other additions to ObjC without violating any of the MVC model of Openstep.

Some of the architects and key developers left when Cocoa was languishing for a while and Carbon was continually being extended.

With the demise of Carbon more of my former colleagues are actually interviewing and moving back to Apple to lend their expertise in Cocoa, Mach and more back to Apple.
Click to expand...

I guess they assumed that Cocoa was only hanging around rather than being actively developed - at the same time Apple did need to get Carbon up to speed for their big name partners to get their software on the platform.

Hopefully there will be a stronger focus on Cocoa in the future - I'm looking at learning it in the next couple of months/years given it is the future of the Mac.
 
MartiNZ

MartiNZ

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2008
1,222
125
Auckland, New Zealand
Something not strictly related to SL dev releases except that I've noticed it there, and in another application recently: File -> New Movie Recording ... is there any way to horizontally flip the image shown? Photo Booth does this automatically, but I've found it annoying in other video conferencing applications as well.
 
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samvenning

macrumors newbie
Aug 30, 2008
2
0
QuickTime Keyboard Shortcuts

I'm concerned that keyboard shortcuts to mark in and out points (trimming) seem to have been removed from QuickTime Player on Snow Leopard. This was a really handy feature for cutting and pasting (basic editing) and trimming video. I hope Apple restores this feature.
 
Quillz

Quillz

macrumors 65816
Jan 6, 2006
1,421
0
Los Angeles, CA
Riemann Zeta said:
Wow, the kernel is completely final in this build. I wonder if this signals the end of these revised builds, with RTM coming in a couple of weeks?
Click to expand...
Probably. If Snow Leopard is expected to hit retail in September, then Apple will want to finish up Snow Leopard by late July/early August. That gives them time to print up the product literature, packaging and make all the necessary copies of the DVD.
cargoplex said:
When are they gonna finally drop those friggin' aqua scrollbars already?!? Not only do all the iApps use those nice new gray scrollbars, but just the other day I noticed that the Template Chooser windows in each iWork app uses those new scrollbars too! Lastly, both the "RSS Button" and "Loading Button" to the right of the URL in Safari 4 are both in that new gray scrollbar color. Are they really waiting until the RC to finally drop this huge UI ball?? LOL ;)
Click to expand...
Chances are if they haven't been dropped by now, they never will, although it's possible there might be a few more builds before RTM.

I agree it's time for them to be retired, but fortunately it's not too hard to manually change them yourself, requiring only Extras2.rsrc to be replaced with a modified copy.
 
macintoshtoffy

macintoshtoffy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 1, 2009
921
0
New Zealand
Riemann Zeta said:
Wow, the kernel is completely final in this build. I wonder if this signals the end of these revised builds, with RTM coming in a couple of weeks?
Click to expand...

The kernel is final; I just hope that they're still developing the 950 and X3100 64bit drivers. It would be f*cking appalling if they abandon users who have had their computers for less than a year old.
 
MartiNZ

MartiNZ

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2008
1,222
125
Auckland, New Zealand
Quillz said:
Probably. If Snow Leopard is expected to hit retail in September, then Apple will want to finish up Snow Leopard by late July/early August. That gives them time to print up the product literature, packaging and make all the necessary copies of the DVD.
Click to expand...

I would still like to see them fix the iTunes dashboard widget, and give Dashboard some love in general - even just some globalisation for movies, phone books and such, as well as more locations for the 'world' clock to match the work they've done on the map for timezones.

I hope that they fix the sorting issues with stacks in list view, where sort only works for the first level of browsing, making it kind of useless. I hope they fix the issues that are still there with wake from sleep and custom colour calibrations.

When they're working on adding desktop pictures and account icons, things that have hardly been touched since 10.1, however, I feel they are really wrapping up and will leave those bugs until after release. Goodness knows Leopard had more than its fair share.
 
B

Bjohnson33

macrumors 6502
Mar 4, 2006
265
1
It will be interesting to see the general public's impression of Snow Leopard once it's released. I know there are a lot of under-the-hood improvements, but will it be enough of an apparent to keep people impressed, especially with Windows 7 right around the corner? I get the feeling that we'll see the improvements more over the next 12 months, as developers start using all of the new features implemented in the new OS.
 
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wwwluckyro

macrumors member
Sep 25, 2007
31
0
Romania
imcquill said:
... And the iTunes store portion will switch from using WebObjects to just webkit, and Safari 4 will be required on windows to use it. Safari 4 is super snappy on Windows, and I suspect that it will fly on both OSs.
Click to expand...

It would be very stupid of any company to require a third party browser to be installed so that an application works. They might include Webkit in iTunes, if they must, but that won't happen. I don't see them using browser technology for a native app that can use native code and run at native speed.

Also, for me Safari 4 works fine on Windows, but for some of my friends, it's quite buggy.
 
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