Snow Leopard for Tiger users

[FSMBP]

How will they know who has Leopard and who doesn't? Do they have tabs on that through the serial numbers of the laptops or what?

I assume you can buy the Upgrade disc for $30 regardless of what operating system you have. But, the disc will not work on a computer that doesn't have 10.5 on it.

For example, when the put the disc on a MacBook running 10.4 (Tiger), it will say "Cannot install on harddrive, 10.5 required" or something.

So basically, you can buy the disc but the disc runs a code at startup to see what operating system is installed. So I don't think its relevant if they keep tabs on who has Leopard or not.

 

[Brammy]

I think the disc will work fine for any user, regardless of whether you have leopard installed or not. I think they'll honor system it. Right now, there's no check for you to do multiple installs of an OS, and they offer a family pack. Since it's Intel only, and leopard came out almost 2 years ago, the only people who bought an Intel Mac in the first year or so.

I think Apple figures the bonus of everyone moving to a unified platform is worth any offset of revenue.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

I think the disc will work fine for any user, regardless of whether you have leopard installed or not. I think they'll honor system it. Right now, there's no check for you to do multiple installs of an OS, and they offer a family pack. Since it's Intel only, and leopard came out almost 2 years ago, the only people who bought an Intel Mac in the first year or so.

I think Apple figures the bonus of everyone moving to a unified platform is worth any offset of revenue.

I totally agree - I'm guessing Apple will announce later how they'll confirm that you have Leopard on your Mac or not, to determine what price to charge when you buy Snow Leopard. The actual installation will, I suspect, be like any other version of Mac OS X - any Mac that meets the system requirements will be able to boot the DVD and install it, regardless of existing OS status. Of course, people with Leopard on their Macs already will have the easiest installation, as they can do a simple upgrade. Tiger users will have a slightly more involved install process (they may have to Archive and Install, or not... we don't know yet).

 

[themoonisdown09]

There must be a system check before installing Snow Leopard. This is what it says on Apple's website for Snow Leopard under "Tech Specs":

Snow Leopard Up-to-Date Program.
If you purchased a qualifying Mac on or after June 8, 2009, that does not include Mac OS X Snow Leopard, you can upgrade for $9.95.

Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard.
If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard, just purchase Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard when it’s available and follow the simple installation instructions.

Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger.
If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, purchase the Mac Box Set (when available), which is a single, affordable package that includes Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard; iLife ’09, with the latest versions of iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD; and iWork ’09, Apple’s productivity suite for home and office including Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.

 

[Sky Blue]

Wow...if you want to "Erase & Install" using the Snow Leopard upgrade disk. It will.

For example, I'm running Leopard. I pop in 10.6 Upgrade disk. It checks to see if I'm running 10.5 (which I am). It gives me the options to "Erase & Install" "Upgrade" or "Archive".

I then pick "Erase & Install". Then it erases my disk and installs. It only need to see I had 10.5 at the initial setup.

Exactly. I don't know how people are getting so confused.

 

[Ivan P]

There must be a system check before installing Snow Leopard. This is what it says on Apple's website for Snow Leopard under "Tech Specs":

Or it could be because of the fact that 50% or so of Macs (any sold after October last year) that came preinstalled with Leopard would already have iLife '09 anyway, so there's no point trying to market the box set to Leopard users based on that.

Guys, they're marketing Snow Leopard as 10.6. If it was a mere 'service pack' or whatever then they certainly wouldn't give it a new number like they have with the last five major upgrades. It's going to be a fully fledged OS with it's own install disc, Apple's just going to give the discount because otherwise they'll get idiots complaining that they got ripped off because "it looks identical to my old version!11!11". The average user doesn't give a crap about the under the hood stuff - half the people I know pretty much base a new OS off of an overhauled UI. Apple's merely taken that into account. They're trying to get Tiger users to pay more because they, of all people, will notice the difference after the upgrade.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

There must be a system check before installing Snow Leopard. This is what it says on Apple's website for Snow Leopard under "Tech Specs":

I see your logic, but I still think it's not the path Apple will take. For obvious reasons Apple is encouraging Leopard users on Intel Macs to upgrade to Snow Leopard... and this $29 pricing makes a lot of sense, as does the Mac Box Set deal for Tiger users. However... even Mac users need to reinstall their OS sometimes. Never before has Apple forced installation of an earlier version of Mac OS X to install a later one. I don't think Apple will get particularly good press if they do that.

 

[themoonisdown09]

However... even Mac users need to reinstall their OS sometimes. Never before has Apple forced installation of an earlier version of Mac OS X to install a later one. I don't think Apple will get particularly good press if they do that.

What do you mean. It will check to see if you have Leopard. If you do, you will have the normal installation options (like Erase and Install, etc).

Once you have Snow Leopard installed, if you want to reinstall it, you insert the disc and go on like normal. It will see that you have Snow Leopard already installed, so then you can do whatever you want.

Basically, all it's probably doing is making sure you don't have an earlier version of OS X. As long as you have OS 10.5 or greater, you'll be fine.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

What do you mean. It will check to see if you have Leopard. If you do, you will have the normal installation options (like Erase and Install, etc).

Once you have Snow Leopard installed, if you want to reinstall it, you insert the disc and go on like normal. It will see that you have Snow Leopard already installed, so then you can do whatever you want.

Basically, all it's probably doing is making sure you don't have an earlier version of OS X. As long as you have OS 10.5 or greater, you'll be fine.

You're forgetting that, for various reasons (like completely changing the partition table), people need to wipe their drives clean and reinstall with NO base OS at all. It is because of these users' needs that I highly doubt Apple will take the route you're suggesting in its entirety. Sure, simplifying the install options is a GOOD thing - but it shouldn't be overdone.

Again, this only makes sense if you assume people are not going to wipe their drives. Trust me, people DO do this. It wouldn't be wise for Apple to pursue the system check.

 

[Ivan P]

What do you mean. It will check to see if you have Leopard. If you do, you will have the normal installation options (like Erase and Install, etc).

Once you have Snow Leopard installed, if you want to reinstall it, you insert the disc and go on like normal. It will see that you have Snow Leopard already installed, so then you can do whatever you want.

Basically, all it's probably doing is making sure you don't have an earlier version of OS X. As long as you have OS 10.5 or greater, you'll be fine.

But why exactly? Why would Apple care if people are on Leopard or not? As long as they're running OS X on a supported Intel Mac then I don't see the problem. If people can install SL and then, at their wish, do a total reinstall again whenever they want...then WHY would there be the requirement of having to check for Leopard beforehand?

You say that users will be able to reinstall Snow Leopard whenever they want. Erase and install, archive and install, etc - the standard install features that OS X offers. If that's the case then the Snow Leopard disc MUST contain every necessary system file to begin with.

If that's the case, then that writes off your theory of Leopard being a necessity for the upgrade to take place. Why would you have to have nothing but Leopard installed if the disc already contains everything that the OS needs to operate? Leopard would only be a necessity if there were system files that were needed that, for some reason, wasn't included on the SL disc. But that wouldn't make sense, and I can't see Apple doing that. Users, as you say, can erase and install Snow Leopard whenever they wish after the upgrade but what would happen to these files from Leopard that are necessary for it's installation? They'd be totally wiped - and if they weren't then it wouldn't actually be an erase and install, would it? And if there was no erase and install then Apple would be getting a lot of bad press, because if there's something wrong with the files that it retains then you're stuck with a screwy system.

Basically, the entire system will HAVE to be on the Snow Leopard install disc, otherwise there will be the problems and discrepancies that I described above. So...why exactly would they need Leopard to install it then?

 

[themoonisdown09]

You're forgetting that, for various reasons (like completely changing the partition table), people need to wipe their drives clean and reinstall with NO base OS at all. It is because of these users' needs that I highly doubt Apple will take the route you're suggesting in its entirety. Sure, simplifying the install options is a GOOD thing - but it shouldn't be overdone.

Again, this only makes sense if you assume people are not going to wipe their drives. Trust me, people DO do this. It wouldn't be wise for Apple to pursue the system check.

How else would Apple know if you had Leopard installed or not? Hopefully, they won't make you show a receipt... that would suck. I don't have my receipt from October 2007.

I guess I'll just wait and see what happens when it gets closer to September. I'm not really worried since I have Leopard on all my Macs.

To Ivan P, I'm not saying that the Snow Leopard disc for Leopard users will be just an upgrade. It will be like any other version of OS X has been. The only reason why I suspect they might do a system check is because they said it's $29 for Leopard users. If you have Tiger installed, you will have to pay more since you skipped out on Leopard.

Again, they might do some kind of check when you're purchasing Snow Leopard, but I highly doubt that. How would you prove that you have Leopard installed on the Mac you're going to put Snow Leopard on?

 

[FSMBP]

You're forgetting that, for various reasons (like completely changing the partition table), people need to wipe their drives clean and reinstall with NO base OS at all. It is because of these users' needs that I highly doubt Apple will take the route you're suggesting in its entirety. Sure, simplifying the install options is a GOOD thing - but it shouldn't be overdone.

Again, this only makes sense if you assume people are not going to wipe their drives. Trust me, people DO do this. It wouldn't be wise for Apple to pursue the system check.

Yeah, if you mean that you replace your MBP's harddrive with a new one, I guess my theory would be a pain. That means you would have to install Leopard then add the Snow Leopard update (basically two installations).

So maybe Apple will take the "Honor System" route (which isn't THAT radical).

But, I wonder how many Mac users actually install an OS on a new blank harddrive; also, I'm sure people would just use Time Machine. My assumptions are that most Mac users aren't experts, they don't put new harddrives in their Macs, and that if they did, they would use Time Machine.

Honestly though, what percentage of Mac users have a brand new Harddrive, open up their Mac and put it in, and install an OS without Time Machine? (I'm not trying to be cute, but it seems like a very small percentage would do this). Therefore, Apple may not take the Honor System route. I don't know though.

 

[reallynotnick]

Couldn't Apple just scan your system and know by the tech specs it came with 10.5?

 

[themoonisdown09]

Couldn't Apple just scan your system and know by the tech specs it came with 10.5?

That would not work. My MacBook Pro came with Tiger. When Leopard came out in October 2007, I bought Leopard and installed it on my MacBook Pro. What would happen if I tried to install Snow Leopard now? It would reject the installation because my MacBook Pro didn't come with Leopard.

 

[wallaby]

Guys, they're marketing Snow Leopard as 10.6. If it was a mere 'service pack' or whatever then they certainly wouldn't give it a new number like they have with the last five major upgrades. It's going to be a fully fledged OS with it's own install disc, Apple's just going to give the discount because otherwise they'll get idiots complaining that they got ripped off because "it looks identical to my old version!11!11". The average user doesn't give a crap about the under the hood stuff - half the people I know pretty much base a new OS off of an overhauled UI. Apple's merely taken that into account. They're trying to get Tiger users to pay more because they, of all people, will notice the difference after the upgrade.

They can market it however the hell they want, but fact is if it were a fully fledged OS X system, they'd have charged $129 for it. It's not, and that's why we have the price discount. Apple has admitted to this: it's a trimmed down, improved version of Leopard.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

They can market it however the hell they want, but fact is if it were a fully fledged OS X system, they'd have charged $129 for it. It's not, and that's why we have the price discount. Apple has admitted to this: it's a trimmed down, improved version of Leopard.

I agree... but I think you and Ivan are talking about different meanings of "fully fledged". I think you're both right - Ivan in that the disk will contain the full OS, you in that the full OS isn't a particularly big upgrade for Leopard users.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Honestly though, what percentage of Mac users have a brand new Harddrive, open up their Mac and put it in, and install an OS without Time Machine? (I'm not trying to be cute, but it seems like a very small percentage would do this). Therefore, Apple may not take the Honor System route. I don't know though.

Anyone who puts in a new hard drive
Anyone who hoses their OS install with Bootcamp
Anyone who owns Leopard but downgraded to Tiger
Anyone who was not running OS X
Anyone who did a complete wipe, and then powered down before installing 10.6

That has the potential to be 1/2 of the people who like to cause trouble with their computer. If I go off to college, upgrade to Snow Leopard, and then something happens to Snow Leopard and I need to do a re-install, and I can't... I'd have no choice to 1) B***h about how Apple won't let me install my legal OS, and 2) Install Windows XP, which is provided free by the school.

Apple doesn't want either happening, I think 10.6 will be all on the honor system, and the $30 upgrade disk will also work with Tiger... Or the $30 upgrade disk will simply have a check "If this user is running 10.4.x, do not install"

 

[John Jacob]

You may rationalize anything. That does not change the fact that reinstalling the OS is a colossal waste of time. Having owned Macs for twenty years, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that MacOS X does not take all that.

Maybe for you. Other people may have good reasons to do a reinstall.

The reason I did a reinstall is to get rid of all the remnants of various software that I installed and later uninstalled (VMWare, MacPorts, etc). I could in theory go through the whole file system and delete all the files individually, but doing so would take a lot longer than a reinstall.

 

[jeffy.dee-lux]

I think they'll just ask you to install a 10.5 disc while installing from a Leopard to Snow Leopard install disc.

I've always upgraded every second update. 9.2 (10.0 and 10.1 sorta counted as one), 10.2, 10.4, and was planning on skipping 10.5 as well. You get more new features for your money that way, provided you don't mind waiting. I've been tempted by 10.5 a few times, but have never justified the cost (i'm a student).

So i'm a little annoyed they're only offering it bundled with iWork and iLife. It's a pretty good deal I guess, but I don't really need iWork, and my current iLife apps serve me just fine.

I'm even considering just getting Leopard now while I wait. In fact, if I had known back in 2007 that going from 10.5 to 10.6 would only be 30 bucks, I definitely would have gotten on board with Leopard.

 

[edcrosay]

I think the disc will work fine for any user, regardless of whether you have leopard installed or not. I think they'll honor system it. Right now, there's no check for you to do multiple installs of an OS, and they offer a family pack. Since it's Intel only, and leopard came out almost 2 years ago, the only people who bought an Intel Mac in the first year or so.

I think Apple figures the bonus of everyone moving to a unified platform is worth any offset of revenue.

I completely agree.

It will based on the honor system, just how family packs are now.

If you are using Leopard you pay $29 for the full copy.
If you are one of the few people using Intel Tiger, then you should pay full price, but there will be no restrictions stopping you from using the $29 copy, besides your own guilt.

How many Intel Tiger users are out there that have not upgraded yet? Not enough to justify pissing off the rest of us by implementing a convuluted DRM system or Leopard check.

No upgrade nonsense, no checking to see if 10.5 is installed. Just the full OS on a disc for $29.

 

[jeffy.dee-lux]

I completely agree.

It will based on the honor system, just how family packs are now.

If you are using Leopard you pay $29 for the full copy.
If you are one of the few people using Intel Tiger, then you should pay full price, but there will be no restrictions stopping you from using the $29 copy, besides your own guilt.

How many Intel Tiger users are out there that have not upgraded yet? Not enough to justify pissing off the rest of us by implementing a convuluted DRM system or Leopard check.

No upgrade nonsense, no checking to see if 10.5 is installed. Just the full OS on a disc for $29.

Is it really that hard to ask to insert a 10.5 disc during a 10.6 upgrade? Everyone who legally has 10.5 should still have a disc.

 

[Brammy]

Is it really that hard to ask to insert a 10.5 disc during a 10.6 upgrade? Everyone who legally has 10.5 should still have a disc.

1- It's an extra disk to keep around, and I can't Apple wanting to deal with support issues around people losing their Leopard discs.
2- unless you bought Leopard in the store, you don't have a "leopard" disc. You have a set of discs that shipped with your Mac, and who knows what, if any, similarities there are.
3-Apple tries to make their installs as painless as possible. A disc/upgrade check isn't the ease of use Apple likes their products to have.
4- I'm just not understanding the why people are having an issue with Apple offering the same disc for $29 they put in the Magic Box on the same honor system they use for individual installs vs. family pack installs of any of their other products.

 

[8CoreWhore]

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1545

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1160238&seqNum=2

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5892539&

All sorts of schools of thought -- do whatever blows up your dress. The option is there for a reason.

 

[alphaod]

Well since you can't run iLife '09 on Tiger, Apple assumes you don't own iLife '09 if you're still running Tiger, so they are offering the Mac Box Set for Tiger users as it includes iLife '09 (probably because Snow Leopard will require '09?).

That would mean you can probably buy Snow Leopard for $29 as a Tiger user, but you will not have any iLife software.

That's just my wild hypothesis, but to me that's a sensible business strategy.

 

[PikachuMan]

Well since you can't run iLife '09 on Tiger, Apple assumes you don't own iLife '09 if you're still running Tiger, so they are offering the Mac Box Set for Tiger users as it includes iLife '09 (probably because Snow Leopard will require '09?).

That would mean you can probably buy Snow Leopard for $29 as a Tiger user, but you will not have any iLife software.

That's just my wild hypothesis, but to me that's a sensible business strategy.

What's stopping Tiger users from just using iLife 06 on SL?

I don't know why SL would require '09 either (plus even if it did, wouldn't many leopard users be in trouble as well?)

---
I'll throw in my wild hypothesis as well:

Upgrading 10.4--> 10.6 might not be supported (for technical reasons), but a fresh install of 10.6 might work? Logically, if the installer is seeing a blank drive, it wouldn't matter what OS was on there previously (unless Apple goes out of their way to check, a la CD-Keys, activation, disk-swaps and all that... none of which really fits their pattern).