I have to say that I'm loving Lion, way better than SL. Love the new back and forward feature for web surfing and just kicks new life into using my Mac. I've had no issues with it that I can tell, my computer seems to be running faster to. Lion is awesome, seeing comments like this is Apple's Vista is very far off, it's not anything close or like Vista, imho this is a great upgrade over SL.
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So apparently Lion sucks?
- Thread starter FooArk
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^^ I'm with u.
Also it's funny that I remember before Lion came out, the forums were alive with people hating on SL. Before that, people hating on Leo ... yet they do not get rid of this object that causes them so much anger. Whyyyyyyy
If all you use your computer for is web browsing then yeah Lion probably does seem better to you, but its so NOT. You could have saved yourself $30 and just upgraded your browser.
Almost everything on Lion is demonstrably SLOWER by real benchmarks. Seeming faster doesn't mean it is. Download Xbench and compare for yourself, you might be surprised.
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^^ I'm with u.
Also it's funny that I remember before Lion came out, the forums were alive with people hating on SL. Before that, people hating on Leo ... yet they do not get rid of this object that causes them so much anger. Whyyyyyyy
I loved each Mac OS X upgrade EXCEPT for Lion. Its a POS. And I did get rid of it. Happily running Snow Leopard again.
^^ I'm with u.
Also it's funny that I remember before Lion came out, the forums were alive with people hating on SL. Before that, people hating on Leo ... yet they do not get rid of this object that causes them so much anger. Whyyyyyyy
I've liked every update since 10.4 except Lion. 10.6 had some small changes to Expose that were annoying, but other than that 10.6 is great. Mission Control, Versions, Grey Icons, iCal, Address Book, all have more laborious workflows.
Some things of 10.7 are nice, but overall the experience is sub-par.
It's fairly simple: your opinion is not the only one, nor is Lion an absolute disaster as many people who hate it continue to insist.
Slow for you. Faster for me. Also, Xbench is old – try six years old. That's going to skew your results.
nor is your opinion the only one that it's not a poor upgrade that does more bad than good, yet you continue to insist on it. And don't condescend me with "it's fairly simple". Others and myself have opined on "WHY" we consider lion an unworthy upgrade to sl, and "WHY" it hinders our work flow. You on the other hand you did not opine on "WHY" you find it useful or "WHY" it is a worthy upgrade so we could engage you in a discussion on the relative merits of your opinions.
Instead you commented that it's useful for others. Thank you very much for telling us that there are people who find it useful, and that we are only expressing an opinion, because we were under the impression that no one found it useful and views on os's where not opinions but hard undebatable facts...
A lot of people found vista useful too, allow me to remind you as an aside.
//edit for your recent edit: it's not faster by almost all benchmarks I 've read on the web, actually it's slower by almost all benchmarks I' ve read. Now we are going to blame the benchmarking tool to turn black to white? Enlighten us to which benchmarking tools you are using and which ones we should be using too then....
Xbench hasn't been updated since 2006 & does not even finish running on my Lion system.
I ran both geekbench and cinebench again and compared them from February last year with Snow Leopard.
Geekbench Cinebench
Snow Leopard 12182 Opengl 24.99 CPU 8.14
Lion 12251 Opengl 29.09 CPU 8.17
Humm...My system is actually running faster in Lion then Snow Leopard & boots faster too.
I was referring to Geekbench, sorry.
OpenGPL? No application that I run to do anything (most importantly, my job) benefits from this. Is a graphics library, not exactly an OS upgrade. If your a gamer mac os x lion still doesn't have anything on windows.
Here is are all the results from the same exact machine running both:
Snow Leopard Geekbench Scrore: 3142
Lion Geekbench Score: 3020
FYI, higher is better. =)
from every comparison I read on the net lion is at best on par, at best on par with sl, and that's an overall score including such limited tasks as encoding an acc track on itunes and zipping a file, and all done on very recent machines. Not many tests on older machines where speed could deteriorate more.
I don't think we need any apologists here, not anymore, we 've had enough, this is the lion sucks thread anyway, open a thread called oh lion is soooo great and comment there.
In any case on the topic at hand it can't be that everyone around the net is forging report after report to show that lion is a tad slower or at best equal.
The problem is that apple ALSO chose to pimp lion by bundling it with icloud services to begin with, (remind me if I am wrong but they enabled it now to sl as well?) which to me is unacceptable since icloud is really a service which could have very easily been made available on sl too. Thus everyone has to suffer through the crappy interfaces of contacts and calender, the grey or monochromatic icons, the restarting everything on reboot (why oh why...), the autosave, the ios elements etc. etc. while a lot of people don't find all that particularly useful and overall they feel it detracts from usability...just to get a bunch of their contacts and mail syncing across devices. What a load of horse manure... and still the menu bar on an imac 27" is almost illegible because we are waiting for ultra high def screens to get some semblance of resolution independence and of course shell out more money and replace everything for some basic functionality that been requested for such a long time...
I don't think we need any apologists here, not anymore, we 've had enough, this is the lion sucks thread anyway, open a thread called oh lion is soooo great and comment there.
In any case on the topic at hand it can't be that everyone around the net is forging report after report to show that lion is a tad slower or at best equal.
The problem is that apple ALSO chose to pimp lion by bundling it with icloud services to begin with, (remind me if I am wrong but they enabled it now to sl as well?) which to me is unacceptable since icloud is really a service which could have very easily been made available on sl too. Thus everyone has to suffer through the crappy interfaces of contacts and calender, the grey or monochromatic icons, the restarting everything on reboot (why oh why...), the autosave, the ios elements etc. etc. while a lot of people don't find all that particularly useful and overall they feel it detracts from usability...just to get a bunch of their contacts and mail syncing across devices. What a load of horse manure... and still the menu bar on an imac 27" is almost illegible because we are waiting for ultra high def screens to get some semblance of resolution independence and of course shell out more money and replace everything for some basic functionality that been requested for such a long time...
While it may not benefit you directly does not mean it might not benefit someone else. I'm sure if the opengl scores were lower, I'm sure someone would complain about that or mention it supposedly does not benefit them...lol
I'm guessing the improved graphics drivers and/or opengl libraries is getting better scores, which is a good thing.
Update: I reran geekbench considering Time Machine was running in the background at the time of the first test. So I'm getting slightly higher scores as a result.
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I totally agree with ALL of the above and would like to add the many annoying and slow animations to the list as well (that you can't get rid of).
I've loved every update of OS X, which I've been using since 10.1, but Lion is the one cat I can not get used to. This past week I did my third try but reverted back to Snow Leopard once again after three days.
Lion is fine for people who browse the web and check emails on their Macbooks. But for people who actually do work on their desktop computers, and rather use keyboard shortcuts than a trackpad, Lion is a big step back in productivity. Most of the changes feel very forced. They were not necessary and haven't really contributed to a better experience. Don't fix what isn't broke!
And all the gray icons and buttons, which supposedly is there to make the user focus on the content, are ridiculous. How about focusing on making an OS where you can actually find icons and buttons faster and easier instead?
And why make iCal and Address Book show LESS information than before? With today's large 27" displays and common use of multiple displays, I want the main iCal window to show MORE information. My Mac Pro is NOT an iPad!!
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Why does the computing world media give osx lion such a free ride?
I find it a bloated (em i a computer or a gadget) os...and the update blowup of yesterday should be headline making news.
If this was ms the crys would be over the top (vista vista vista).
And to not offer a portable media version of lion for (air,mini) for when things go wrong so one has to go back to cloud to redownload os is just plain dumb! (yes they sell thumb drive with lion,but it doesn't work with latest air,mini)
I find it a bloated (em i a computer or a gadget) os...and the update blowup of yesterday should be headline making news.
If this was ms the crys would be over the top (vista vista vista).
And to not offer a portable media version of lion for (air,mini) for when things go wrong so one has to go back to cloud to redownload os is just plain dumb! (yes they sell thumb drive with lion,but it doesn't work with latest air,mini)
Amen brother. The first thing I did was try to find a hack to get the gray off itunes and the finder, esp. so the later. I managed to find one for finder (it's easy to google hence I am not linking here) but it doesn't work 100% of the time. Now if one could make one for mail too...
Another even bigger problem is that developers are now taking the lead from apple and greying out their toolbar icons, I 've seen it in a couple or so new updates of software I I've been using for a long time... good god everything might soon be a grey indistinguishable mess!!! This should make quite a few optometrists and headache specialists a lot richer...
Every Mac OS release sucks depending on who you ask. Some people think everything after Panther has been utterly useless. Some even think OS X is not much better than Classic! (seriously). Point is, people aren't big fans of changes...at least initially. I'm no exception.
People hated Tiger because they felt the UI was uglier (capsulated blue buttons, loss of pinstripes/brushed metal), Spotlight was lame, Finder unusable, and overall, Tiger was slower, buggier, more of a resource hog and it broke this and that blah blah blah...
They thought it was a step down from Panther which was the king of all OS X releases.
People also hated Leopard when it debuted; They mocked the 3D dock and its loss of functionality (e.g. no list view, stacks), as well as the transparent menubar (people even laughed at the slide when Steve unveiled it). Others thought the UI changes were dire, full of fluff and hampered usability/functionality (grey folders and glassy buttons). Also it was slower, buggier, more of a resource hog and it broke this and that blah blah blah...
Compared to Tiger, the king of all OS X releases, Leopard was a joke.
In Snow Leopard people thought its Expose implementation sucked and was a step down from Leopard/Tiger (now people are crying for it back in Lion), they also bemoaned the fact that the UI changes hadn't been corrected, and that there were no new features and Finder was still broken so there was no point upgrading. Also the classic; 'buggier, slower, it broke this and that' blah blah blah. Compared to Leopard, the king of all OS X releases, Snow Leopard was nothing more than a service pack release.
Every version of Mac OS released 'sucks' in one way or another. Yet people somehow manage to survive them...10.7/Lion will be no exception.
People hated Tiger because they felt the UI was uglier (capsulated blue buttons, loss of pinstripes/brushed metal), Spotlight was lame, Finder unusable, and overall, Tiger was slower, buggier, more of a resource hog and it broke this and that blah blah blah...
They thought it was a step down from Panther which was the king of all OS X releases.
People also hated Leopard when it debuted; They mocked the 3D dock and its loss of functionality (e.g. no list view, stacks), as well as the transparent menubar (people even laughed at the slide when Steve unveiled it). Others thought the UI changes were dire, full of fluff and hampered usability/functionality (grey folders and glassy buttons). Also it was slower, buggier, more of a resource hog and it broke this and that blah blah blah...
Compared to Tiger, the king of all OS X releases, Leopard was a joke.
In Snow Leopard people thought its Expose implementation sucked and was a step down from Leopard/Tiger (now people are crying for it back in Lion), they also bemoaned the fact that the UI changes hadn't been corrected, and that there were no new features and Finder was still broken so there was no point upgrading. Also the classic; 'buggier, slower, it broke this and that' blah blah blah. Compared to Leopard, the king of all OS X releases, Snow Leopard was nothing more than a service pack release.
Every version of Mac OS released 'sucks' in one way or another. Yet people somehow manage to survive them...10.7/Lion will be no exception.
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well i dont have benchmarks but i do have my own set of eyes and to show me on bootup and shut down lion is slower than snowleopard. its my own dumb fault but i deleted my timemachine backup of snow so i am sol on that unless i want to do a clean install and i rather i did not as i have certain programs that i would rather not spend hours on seting backup. plus i even did one clean install of lion on my macbook pro to see if that would help nope it made it worse for me
To some of us who have also lived through said os versions though lion does suck while we didn't have any or very minor concerns with previous versions and this has been attested here in this thread time and again. We shouldn't ascribe the criticism for lion to the usual whining of people and not to some concrete problems created by lion (which is much different than former releases in that it is a much much more mature os) that have been mentioned here a lot of times.
I don't get the point about Lion being a "much more mature OS"?! Regarding concrete problems, again and again people complain about the "grey folders". Well, as daneoni just mentioned, Leopard introduced a concrete problem just like that.
Well it is a much more mature OS and the tweaking to make it even better is tricky without actually making it worse by changing long standing things that work just fine with either superfluous or undesired ones. If the os is less mature you can add a lot more without having to resort to unnecessary tweaks because someone in the power struggle of making an os just has to have their way put across as a supposed "new paradigm". In essence, when you need a robust and quick search functionality that's not there in the os (spotlight) the os is hardly going to suffer from one (tiger). When you don't need such basics tweaking or adding extras is a much tougher game because at some point someone says let's make the calendar more like ios and people don't want a calendar like ios showing less on a much larger screen.
Well, you can still add your own icon to these folders in leopard with just a few clicks from get info, you can even use tigers icons if you wish to. (I routinely use images for my folders, esp. desktop ones, since I find the visual cue helps to make them much easier to spot and also more aesthetically pleasing. Can I easily revert the monochromatic sidebars and toolbars that give me sheer usability hell to look for anything? (where's that nice green for downloads and purple for desktop when you have 10+ items on the finder sidebar, where's the yellow for notes on mail?) Can I dissuade every single developer to not switch toolbars to the same monochromatic squint inducing mess? I can't.
Can I prevent a hidden system preferences window that I have either closed or minimized on the dock icon to pop back up on me upon restart for no other reason than that someone with less than ideal foresight messed with something that didn't need to be messed with to begin with?
At least they didn't make the finder sidebar icons monochrome in Snow Leopard. In Lion, even if you assign a custom icon to a folder, that icon won't show in the Finder's sidebar. Your stuck in monochrome land, which makes things much harder to find. Especially if you have a big screen and a long list of items.
And when we're speaking of the Lion Finder, why on earth can't I have my devices listed at the top like before? I have 6 HDs connected and prefer to have them easily accessible at the top of the sidebar. I don't mind if Apple moves things around as long as they give us a way to change things back if we want to, i.e. like "natural scrolling". Now in Lion, if I want my HDs at the top, I have to drag them to the favorites category. So now I have to have EVERY single folder in the sidebar under the "Favorites" category and without any colors or custom icons. Great...
I hadn't noticed they greyed out folders too added on the sidebar, good god when you didn't think it could get worse, I use images for most of my folders and adding them to the sidebar doesn't grey out the image but reverts to a monochrome generic folder...
Turns out the with the simbl rootkit and the colorful sidebar plugin folders with a picture are now again appearing as they did before, i.e. small sidebar sized picture.
Sadly I 've been reading on simbl a bit on macupdate and why it gets killed by the os at times, and it seems it won't play nice at all with lion, ohhhhhh...back to grey hell is it then?
Turns out the with the simbl rootkit and the colorful sidebar plugin folders with a picture are now again appearing as they did before, i.e. small sidebar sized picture.
Sadly I 've been reading on simbl a bit on macupdate and why it gets killed by the os at times, and it seems it won't play nice at all with lion, ohhhhhh...back to grey hell is it then?
Thats because everyone Apple cares about lives in a magical world with super fast internet. If you put aside your hate for poor little Lion the spirit of Steve Jobs will take you to the place where the internet roams free.
I was about to upgrade from 10.6.7 to Lion (Mac Pro - Early 2009) but after browsing through this thread I'm reconsidering...
I really like Lion, although I'm surprised at the number of bugs still in it. The main issue I have with bugs is full screen freezes.
I never use the application screen, or widgets screen, and rarely move between spaces, but I prefer the opposite scrolling, and mission control is SUCH an improvement on expose in my opinion. I hardly ever use the dock though, since I've got Alfred and use cmd-tab and cmd-` a lot (suppose that's a windows habit I've not lost).
All in all it's a step forward though I think. It's quite obvious iOS and OSX will one day merge though. Should be interesting when that happens. Just hope apple continue to make good old fashioned computers as well.
I never use the application screen, or widgets screen, and rarely move between spaces, but I prefer the opposite scrolling, and mission control is SUCH an improvement on expose in my opinion. I hardly ever use the dock though, since I've got Alfred and use cmd-tab and cmd-` a lot (suppose that's a windows habit I've not lost).
All in all it's a step forward though I think. It's quite obvious iOS and OSX will one day merge though. Should be interesting when that happens. Just hope apple continue to make good old fashioned computers as well.
Yep, I'll survive it... by NOT using it.
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The difference is you can still change them if you wanted in Leopard and Snow Leopard, and that change was reflected in the Finder Sidebar. You had options, Lion took them away.
