So apparently Lion sucks?

[swingerofbirch]

I had been trying to get some of my bugs reported, and I never got anywhere with the developer team. So I wrote to Tim Cook and one of his employees, Tajai Das, who is a liaison between different departments got in touch with me.

The problem is before they would agree to troubleshoot the problems (which are reproducible and I can just tell them about, which I already have), they insisted I re-install Lion. Ugg. I just don't have the time to deal with that. But if anyone wants to try to help Apple help itself, his e-mail is:

Tajai Das: tdas@apple.com

Tim Cook: tcook@apple.com

 

[blow45]

sucks big time, a slower more buggy more luggy sl with pointless features such as autosave, features that piss you off such as restarting where you left off with everything open (if I want to effing start where I left off I will put the machine to sleep thank you very much, when I restart I don't want the mess I had popping up to me again), fancy crap from ios that are hardly useful (if I want to launch an app not on my dock, I can just go to applications thank you very much), and long standing problems or requests not resolved: where's resolution independence, why do the letters on an imac 27" on the menu bar look so damn small? where's a better file system now that zfs has been put to sleep? Where's some decent tagging of files and organization in the finder?

Just minor cosmetic changes on a buggy slow release don't make for a new os, and certainly not one audaciously named lion.

By far the worst os update by apple, they should collectively congratulate themselves for this crap.

 

[Wicked1]

I am just frustrated that they had to take things that worked well and screw with em'

Why was it needed to have reverse scrolling as a default after all the years of scroll down, go down, scroll up, go up argh!

I think there intention was great but execution failed horrible, but I see the writing on the wall anyway, OSX and iOS will become one, then it will not matter.

I have one uMB with SL and my new mini with Lion, I prefer SL, but have tried over and over to get into Lion but it just miffs me off how things do not run well.

I also have 8GB in my Base Mini 2.3 i5 so it is not RAM, also clean OS install on a Seagate momentus XT 500GB Hybrid, same config in my uMB 2009 with 2.4 and there is no lag or issues with uMB.

 

[scottsjack]

I found an excellent compromise to the Lion vs Snow Leopard debate. I've switched back to Lion for the second time. My current (up to last Thurs) Lion installation is untouched but out of the computer. It's so nice to have SL back. Photoshop and Aperture run so much better now.

Every four weeks I can pop Lion back into the machine, update email into the non-SL compatible Lion Mail, let iCloud update it's stuff, catch up on any updates and keep Lion current. Should Apple offer enough improvements to Lion I'll leave it in there. Otherwise out it comes and back into storage it goes for another four weeks.

 

[thestickman]

Done with Lion for a few updates

Lion just doesn't work well for me on my iMac which I use as a DAW. I'm not a software developer, just a user. In 10.6.8 everything runs GREAT. Even if I do a clean install of Lion it's like I've entered a slower world of computing. Booting up takes much longer. Opening Logic & operating it is a more sluggish experience.

So for me, I chose SL where everything just works. Like its supposed to do.

 

[Wicked1]

I found an excellent compromise to the Lion vs Snow Leopard debate. I've switched back to Lion for the second time. My current (up to last Thurs) Lion installation is untouched but out of the computer. It's so nice to have SL back. Photoshop and Aperture run so much better now.

Every four weeks I can pop Lion back into the machine, update email into the non-SL compatible Lion Mail, let iCloud update it's stuff, catch up on any updates and keep Lion current. Should Apple offer enough improvements to Lion I'll leave it in there. Otherwise out it comes and back into storage it goes for another four weeks.

But for those with newer machines 2011 Base Mini, I have no choice but to run Lion, so now that I sold my 2010 2.66 Mini with SL, I am kinda stuck with Lion on the Mini, but on my uMB I am sticking with SL

 

[jameslmoser]

But for those with newer machines 2011 Base Mini, I have no choice but to run Lion, so now that I sold my 2010 2.66 Mini with SL, I am kinda stuck with Lion on the Mini, but on my uMB I am sticking with SL

I have a feeling there are a lot of people "stuck with Lion" which is why its has as much market share as it has, which isn't much.

 

[MacOG728893]

I really need it for the iCloud features and is the main reason why I use. I can say that everything runs smooth on it but I have faced many problems.

- Problems with outgoing mail servers
- Graphics issues
- Wifi from sleep
- Currently frustrated that I have to pay $49.99 for busycal that essentially gives me exactly what I had on SL iCal... So frustrated right now

 

[Rideherhard]

Lion is running awesome so far on my late 09 13" MacBook Pro, it feels like it's running noticeably faster and seems to be using about 1gb less ram than SL. Just did the upgrade today so we'll see how it goes and I didn't do a clean install either. So far Lion seems to not only be the big cat in the wild but also in the OS world as well. Loving it.

 

[IzzyJG99]

There is a lot more system lag overall if you're doing any kind of large scale back-up to external drives. Not to mention the throughput via FW800 seems lower.

 

[JurgenV]

It's really weird. I read about all those problems so I hold out for long. Now it's on my system I don't have a single problem on my late 2008 MBP. Wi-Fi works immediately from sleep, it doesn't suck up all the memory, its just as fast or maybe slightly faster then SL.

 

[Mac32]

sucks big time, a slower more buggy more luggy sl with pointless features such as autosave, features that piss you off such as restarting where you left off with everything open (if I want to effing start where I left off I will put the machine to sleep thank you very much, when I restart I don't want the mess I had popping up to me again), fancy crap from ios that are hardly useful (if I want to launch an app not on my dock, I can just go to applications thank you very much), and long standing problems or requests not resolved: where's resolution independence, why do the letters on an imac 27" on the menu bar look so damn small? where's a better file system now that zfs has been put to sleep? Where's some decent tagging of files and organization in the finder?

Just minor cosmetic changes on a buggy slow release don't make for a new os, and certainly not one audaciously named lion.

By far the worst os update by apple, they should collectively congratulate themselves for this crap.

Brilliantly put!!! I couldn't have said it better myself. You're right, instead of Apple giving us actually new USEFUL features, we're given nonsense like mission control, launch pad, autosave, versions and restarting with open programs. Where's a better file system, resolution independence, more advanced Finder etc..etc..?

 

[tkermit]

Brilliantly put!!! I couldn't have said it better myself. Your right, instead of Apple giving us actually new USEFUL features, we're given crap like autosave, versions and restarting with open programs. Yuck. Where's better file system, resolution independence, more advanced finder etc..etc..?

Apple's idea of resolution independence is already implemented in the form of HiDPI modes. It's usable today. Now we just need display resolutions to catch up.

I suspect that Apple's hard at work on a better file system, including some form of mainly meta-data driven document management, but in the meantime, what does HFS+ prevent you from doing that you'd need another file system for? How many people do you think are actually inconvenienced in their daily work by having to rely on HFS+? And what kind of Finder improvements are you asking for?

Meanwhile, with Autosave, Versions and Resume Apple are taking a shot at solving actual problems, namely users having to manually synchronize the state of the visible document with the state of the file on disk, losing access to unsaved or overwritten versions of their work, being inconvenienced by restarts forced on them, and having to manually take care of managing memory consumed by applications they're running. I think the fact that there's so much pushback by (a certain vocal part of) power users actually is a good indication of how far-reaching the features Apple has implemented here actually are.

 

[MonkeySee....]

I am just frustrated that they had to take things that worked well and screw with em'

Why was it needed to have reverse scrolling as a default after all the years of scroll down, go down, scroll up, go up argh!

I think there intention was great but execution failed horrible, but I see the writing on the wall anyway, OSX and iOS will become one, then it will not matter.

I have one uMB with SL and my new mini with Lion, I prefer SL, but have tried over and over to get into Lion but it just miffs me off how things do not run well.

I also have 8GB in my Base Mini 2.3 i5 so it is not RAM, also clean OS install on a Seagate momentus XT 500GB Hybrid, same config in my uMB 2009 with 2.4 and there is no lag or issues with uMB.

Its how it should have been all along really. Its a more natural movement (it works great with the trackpad)

I don't see the big deal with turning it off?

 

[blow45]

Thanks for the very informative post first of all.

Having said this can you explain to me how I can enable a menu bar with larger fonts as well as larger fonts in the finder in OS X lion (other than the predifined sizes) without having to resort to such half measures as accessibility zoom which distorts images? Also, how is hipdi helpful to the machines apple already sells such as my mba 11" which with it's high but not hipdpi resolution?

 

[tkermit]

can you explain to me how I can enable a menu bar with larger fonts as well as larger fonts in the finder in OS X lion (other than the predifined sizes) without having to resort to such half measures as accessibility zoom which distorts images? Also, how is hipdi helpful to the machines apple already sells such as my mba 11" which with it's high but not hipdpi resolution?

Sorry. I don't have a solution for these two issues. The HiDPI modes admittedly aren't useful fur current machines. Apple appears to have abandoned the development of true resolution independence as it seems to be impossible at current resolutions to gracefully scale up existing artwork to arbitrary sizes.

 

[Mac32]

Meanwhile, with Autosave, Versions and Resume Apple are taking a shot at solving actual problems, namely users having to manually synchronize the state of the visible document with the state of the file on disk, losing access to unsaved or overwritten versions of their work, being inconvenienced by restarts forced on them, and having to manually take care of managing memory consumed by applications they're running. I think the fact that there's so much pushback by (a certain vocal part of) power users actually is a good indication of how far-reaching the features Apple has implemented here actually are.

The problem is with people that use their mac for serious work (like myself), and that need a predefined structure for one's files and folders. I'd rather use my USB memory stick between my laptops, than buy additional Apple products and spend money on Cloud services for backups and syncing. Obviously there should be a less intrusive ways to sync your documents and files in OS X.
Don't mess with a successful formula Apple, just so you can claim "wow, look at all our new features". It isn't about x amount of new features, it's all about an intuitive system with gives the user the least amount of hassle and annoyance.

 

[fat jez]

I'd rather use my USB memory stick between my laptops

Which rules out the use of versions, especially if it's formatted as FAT, something which Apple neglect to mention! You only keep the versions if the file is on an HFS disk and I'm pretty sure you'll lose them even if you copy the file to another HFS disk.

 

[tkermit]

The problem is with people that use their mac for serious work (like myself), and that need a predefined structure for one's files and folders.

I use my Mac for 'serious work' as well. I don't see the problem. Lion's not preventing you from utilizing a 'predefined structure' for your files and folders. I certainly manage to do just that. Most apps don't even support Autosave&Versions yet, and, if they do, you're still able to export versions of your documents to individual files as you please.

I'd rather use my USB memory stick between my laptops, than buy additional Apple products and spend money on Cloud services for backups and syncing. Obviously there should be a less intrusive ways to sync your documents and files in OS X.

So use your USB stick or Dropbox or some other method, you're not forced to use iCloud.

Which rules out the use of versions, especially if it's formatted as FAT, something which Apple neglect to mention!

At least you're warned about this. And Versions is functional while you're editing the document. Still annoying.

 

[IzzyJG99]

It's really weird. I read about all those problems so I hold out for long. Now it's on my system I don't have a single problem on my late 2008 MBP. Wi-Fi works immediately from sleep, it doesn't suck up all the memory, its just as fast or maybe slightly faster then SL.

It was weird with me, too. Release date I bought Lion. Had Wi-Fi issues. So I went back to SL from time to time trying Lion for a fix. Randomly after I needed a new Airport Express (Newest model) I thought "Hey...I'll try it. What have I got to lose?" So I tried it and it works.

Makes me wonder if the 10.7.2 update I downloaded from the App Store had a fix for the Wi-Fi in it. I imagine that the 10.7.X updates you download from the App store might have stuff added to them from time to time that earlier adopters of 10.7.2 didn't get. Or it could just be Apple wanted me to buy a new Airport Express after using the same one for nearly eight years.

Glad it works for you, Bro.

 

[blow45]

Sorry. I don't have a solution for these two issues. The HiDPI modes admittedly aren't useful fur current machines. Apple appears to have abandoned the development of true resolution independence as it seems to be impossible at current resolutions to gracefully scale up existing artwork to arbitrary sizes.

thanks for the honest reply, that's something. Having said this if they found it hard to scale up for the reason you say, and it's one I am aware of, and it's a valid one, maybe one could say they could have tried harder since they are now by far the most valued company in the world and not what they used to be. Or at least found some work around to offer better options for these long standing problems of very small text menus that users have to suffer through. It's easy to churn one 27" imac after the other with pathetically small text, now that the iron is hot and they are selling like crazy, it's a bit harder to finally come up with some solutions to issues that people have been asking for, like, os aside, non glassy glare screens for example. They should remind themselves that they are not what they used to be and now people demand more of them.

In any case what was touted as a big feature in lion such as autosaves and resume where you left off was at the end a big mess that's hardly benefited anyone. A few multitouch gestures, finally a system wide encryption, what else off the top of my head? Not much. Ah and the universal colourless sidebar and menu items, probably the worst usability decision they have made, going against their own interface guidelines... No colour in the sidebars having you squint to read the ever increasingly smaller letters of it, thanks. Full screen apps is cool but it's hardly innovative, as is airdrop but this another feature you can't use with even pretty recent machines due to airport hardware limitations. And that's about it.

Oh and a contacts app that looks like a contact book but is **** in terms of functionality.

Sadly it seems os x lion development was an aside to other things going on in the company. And the way icloud was used as a push for users to buy and needlessly slow down old machines by upgrading was to say the least shameful.

 

[Mac32]

I use my Mac for 'serious work' as well. I don't see the problem. Lion's not preventing you from utilizing a 'predefined structure' for your files and folders. I certainly manage to do just that. Most apps don't even support Autosave&Versions yet, and, if they do, you're still able to export versions of your documents to individual files as you please.


So use your USB stick or Dropbox or some other method, you're not forced to use iCloud.


At least you're warned about this. And Versions is functional while you're editing the document. Still annoying.

Image

Again, as I said..it's all about creating the most streamlined and intuitive user experience, not creating additional useless features that are just in the way of the creative process and work flow. This is unfortunately OS X Lion in a nutshell for me.

 

[Avatar Tempus]

My two cents:

Whenever I toy with Lion at the apple store I think to myself, this is not an improvement over Snow Leopard. A laptop or computer doesn't really need those iOS "intuitive" features that help with a handheld device with no keyboard. Anyway I want to stick with Snow Leopard but this may prove difficult when I want to get a new computer...

 

[Mackilroy]

Again, as I said..it's all about creating the most streamlined and intuitive user experience, not creating additional useless features that are just in the way of the creative process and work flow. This is unfortunately OS X Lion in a nutshell for me.

Useless for you, useful for others.

 

[blow45]

Useless for you, useful for others.

yeah and your argument being? f. all. thanks for you non contribution to the thread.