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So, I'm in line....

As a business man my self I fully understand the laws of supply and demand and all-to-well know about free market enterprise. Having said that, there is still something very much wrong with this.

One of the most important things any business can have either working for or against it is public perception. In this case, it is not making for a very pleasant buying experience for the customer, some of which may be new to Apple......something for them to think about.
 
So if I'm a wealthy lawyer or physician and I don't want to spend 6 hours of my time standing in line, I shouldn't be able to pay someone to pick one up for me. Pray tell, what are the moral and ethical ways I should spend my money?

So if I have time on my hands and offer to stand in line for people, somehow I'm doing something wrong. It's better that I should panhandle or mooch off welfare.

It seems to me that the people who are complaining are the ones who are saying their own usage (personal use) is more legitimate than other people's actions (resale). Pray tell, in a liberal economic society, why is your desire to purchase a product somehow more important than someone else's? Morals and ethics do not play into this at all. Re-selling is a contractual, consensual, and legal action. What ethics are being bent? Please direct me to the moral or ethical code you feel is being offended. Just because you aren't getting what you want, it doesn't make something wrong and no amount of mental contortion will make it so.

Geezus. This is a consumer electronic product. It's not insulin. Wait a month and this will all be old news. The main reason most people are being bent out of shape is because they want to be seen as cool early adopters. They want to be the first to walk into a cafe / work / party with this year's model. People are upset because their perceived coolness is being usurped by people who can afford to buy into a trend earlier. That's all.
 
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msavwah said:
That's pretty funny actually, you'd have to give up your spot to take that picture. You would have a picture of a line that you are not in. Wouldn't help your case much.
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Actually, he said take a picture of the line when you get there. You would not be in line yet, but you would be the next person in line after the last person they could see in the picture. Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
 
Nothing wrong with it supply and demand. Get you butt up there earlier and get one. If not quite complaining. I did this for couple of days and had great time in line with other people doing the same thing. I thought about doing last night, but did not want to attempt to be first in line. So up to you how important to get one. Is important enough to make some cash or to have one for yourself. All the same in my book
 
camaroIOM said:
Nothing wrong with it supply and demand. Get you butt up there earlier and get one. If not quite complaining. I did this for couple of days and had great time in line with other people doing the same thing. I thought about doing last night, but did not want to attempt to be first in line. So up to you how important to get one. Is important enough to make some cash or to have one for yourself. All the same in my book
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Your comment shows that you are not from NY and I would assume, is not intended for a NYer. I say this because as a NYer myself, it is obvious the Chinese have invaded every Apple store. And they dont "wake up early"... They stay all night right after closing. They take shifts with other Chinese. They can do this because this is their job.

This is how they can earn more in 1 day then they do in one week. The rest of us have real jobs to go to in the morning. I'm a physician and I didn't have the luxury of canceling all my patients on Friday 3/11 so I can wait in line all day. I don't have a family that can rotate shifts like the Chinese.

I have every right to complain and I plan to do so until the ipad I want is in my hand. For those of you on your pedestals delegitimizing those of us with complaints or concerns, give us the luxury of an open forum to vent. After all, there is nothing else we can do except wait.
 
This is the number two reason I did the order online at 12:42 AM PST on the 11th, got it on the 17th. The number one reason was that the nearest Apple store is 4 hours away over two 11,000 foot Mtn. Passes....
 
All Asian people are not Chinese.

But if they were, that's pretty shady to keep showing up in line when others are trying there hardest to find one.
 
SiMBa37 said:
Your comment shows that you are not from NY and I would assume, is not intended for a NYer. I say this because as a NYer myself, it is obvious the Chinese have invaded every Apple store. And they dont "wake up early"... They stay all night right after closing. They take shifts with other Chinese. They can do this because this is their job.

This is how they can earn more in 1 day then they do in one week. The rest of us have real jobs to go to in the morning. I'm a physician and I didn't have the luxury of canceling all my patients on Friday 3/11 so I can wait in line all day. I don't have a family that can rotate shifts like the Chinese.

I have every right to complain and I plan to do so until the ipad I want is in my hand. For those of you on your pedestals delegitimizing those of us with complaints or concerns, give us the luxury of an open forum to vent. After all, there is nothing else we can do except wait.
Click to expand...

The people with the idiotic "get your butts in line" attitude deserve to have their appointments cancelled every day.
 
SiMBa37 said:
Your comment shows that you are not from NY and I would assume, is not intended for a NYer. I say this because as a NYer myself, it is obvious the Chinese have invaded every Apple store. And they dont "wake up early"... They stay all night right after closing. They take shifts with other Chinese. They can do this because this is their job.

This is how they can earn more in 1 day then they do in one week. The rest of us have real jobs to go to in the morning. I'm a physician and I didn't have the luxury of canceling all my patients on Friday 3/11 so I can wait in line all day. I don't have a family that can rotate shifts like the Chinese.

I have every right to complain and I plan to do so until the ipad I want is in my hand. For those of you on your pedestals delegitimizing those of us with complaints or concerns, give us the luxury of an open forum to vent. After all, there is nothing else we can do except wait.
Click to expand...

Look up 'outgroup homogeneity', doctor. Not all Asian people are the same. Some are from Korea. Some are from Japan. Some are from Hong Kong. I wager a couple here and there might even be physicians like yourself. Substitute 'like the Blacks' for 'like the Chinese' and you'll see how distorted your view has become.

Characterizing them as a collectivist hoard may make sense in your mind and is likely the result of cognitive oversimplification stemming from your frustration. I see lots of people taking the opportunity to make money off this trivial fad. If it's a White dude, I don't go around asking if he's Russian or Polish or Albanian, do I? No, but if there's an Asian there, you know his ancestry, you know his purpose, my, you know his whole life story!

IF (and that's a mighty big if) you are right and this is how 'those people' make more money in one day than they would otherwise be able to, while you have a 'real job,' perhaps you can give this one to them. You're a physician for goodness sake. You're really going to say you're hard-done by because you get your iPad a week later than someone who is scraping by in life to put food on their table?
 
KittyKatta said:
Thats the problem that people havent experienced the "reseller effect" dont understand. The problem isn't that people are getting there ahead of you. The problem is that its the SAME people getting there ahead of you. And if each daily Apple shipment is 14-20 devices with a limit of 2 per customer then these exact same resellers will get almost the entire stock EVERY day.

I get it. People think the obvious answer is to get there early, but thats missing the point. This is a problem that could be solved with a little intervention from Apple. Sometimes you see the people who hand the line mules their envelope of cash so Apple is aware of the issue and they've established rules that worked in the past like "limit 1 per customer", "preorder online for pickup" or "credit cards only" so why not implement it when its obvious that there's a problem in getting this into peoples hands?
Click to expand...
At this point, your best bet is to wait until next week. Once the international launch rolls out the resellers should drop off.
 
Surprisingly, each time I have been to the Southpark Charlotte, NC store I have only noted people who appeared to have genuine interest in the product. Perhaps NC is more homogenous ethnicity wise and so we havent had that problem? My store was also doing tickets and you could only buy one at a time.
 
SiMBa37 said:
Your comment shows that you are not from NY and I would assume, is not intended for a NYer. I say this because as a NYer myself, it is obvious the Chinese have invaded every Apple store. And they dont "wake up early"... They stay all night right after closing. They take shifts with other Chinese. They can do this because this is their job.

This is how they can earn more in 1 day then they do in one week. The rest of us have real jobs to go to in the morning. I'm a physician and I didn't have the luxury of canceling all my patients on Friday 3/11 so I can wait in line all day. I don't have a family that can rotate shifts like the Chinese.

I have every right to complain and I plan to do so until the ipad I want is in my hand. For those of you on your pedestals delegitimizing those of us with complaints or concerns, give us the luxury of an open forum to vent. After all, there is nothing else we can do except wait.
Click to expand...

What's your definition of a job? Surely anything that puts food on the table and a roof over a child's head is a job?... Perhaps as a physician you are above everyone else here and have the right to decide what a 'real' job is.

I would also suggest taking up some form of education as Asian is not Chinese. How rude of you.

If you stop complaining for one second and start listening you might actually learn something.


Just do what ever it takes to stop moaning all the time.
 
It's sad that all it takes is an iPad shortage for otherwise decent people to start looking for reasons to dislike others.

I'm sure there's a significant proportion of people out there trying to make a buck cashing in on the temporary iPad shortage. Perhaps a significant proportion of them are even Asian. Perhaps a significant proportion of them are Chinese. But several comments about 'those people' and 'real jobs' and so forth clearly demonstrate how frustration results in oversimplification and distortion.

We all have a tendency to see people like ourselves as unique individuals while other people are lumped together into a homogeneous mass. But I would hope that most of us would recognize our own biases and try not to elaborate on them. It wasn't THAT long ago that people said the same thing about the Jews or the Irish or the Blacks, etc., etc.,.

It's sad that it only takes a temporary shortage of a consumer product to trigger such animosity. It's not insulin. It's not bread. Most of the people who are so upset are only so because they want to be a cool early adopter. They imagine walking into a cafe or their workplace or a party and having everyone oohhhing and awwwwing over their new shiny toy. Wow, what a hero they are in my books. Can anyone really claim to be suffering because they might get their iPad next month?
 
Psychmike said:
It's sad that all it takes is an iPad shortage for otherwise decent people to start looking for reasons to dislike others.

I'm sure there's a significant proportion of people out there trying to make a buck cashing in on the temporary iPad shortage. Perhaps a significant proportion of them are even Asian. Perhaps a significant proportion of them are Chinese. But several comments about 'those people' and 'real jobs' and so forth clearly demonstrate how frustration results in oversimplification and distortion.

We all have a tendency to see people like ourselves as unique individuals while other people are lumped together into a homogeneous mass. But I would hope that most of us would recognize our own biases and try not to elaborate on them. It wasn't THAT long ago that people said the same thing about the Jews or the Irish or the Blacks, etc., etc.,.

It's sad that it only takes a temporary shortage of a consumer product to trigger such animosity. It's not insulin. It's not bread. Most of the people who are so upset are only so because they want to be a cool early adopter. They imagine walking into a cafe or their workplace or a party and having everyone oohhhing and awwwwing over their new shiny toy. Wow, what a hero they are in my books. Can anyone really claim to be suffering because they might get their iPad next month?
Click to expand...

I completely agree... There are some very sad people here.

I just hope that special feeling they get from flashing an ipad 2 around is worth all the hatred and self evils.
 
If a billionaire wanted to buy every single lottery ticket for a drawing, while perhaps unethical, it wouldn't be illegal. If you were willing to buy a ticket from them, at an inflated price, it's your choice.

People need to stop with the 'it's not fair' mentality. There is nothing fair about business; it's cutthroat.

Sure the situation sucks, but it's Apple's fault. Order one online and wait. "But I shouldn't have to wait..." Tough. The situation says otherwise. If you can't wait though, that's your own impatience and be prepared to go to extra lengths to get one now.

Ideally we should all be able to waltz into an Apple store and buy one without lining up/waiting -- but guess what? The world isn't ideal or perfect. Complaining won't put an iPad in your hand today. Suck it up and either wait or get proactive.
 
Psychmike said:
It's sad that all it takes is an iPad shortage for otherwise decent people to start looking for reasons to dislike others.

I'm sure there's a significant proportion of people out there trying to make a buck cashing in on the temporary iPad shortage. Perhaps a significant proportion of them are even Asian. Perhaps a significant proportion of them are Chinese. But several comments about 'those people' and 'real jobs' and so forth clearly demonstrate how frustration results in oversimplification and distortion.

We all have a tendency to see people like ourselves as unique individuals while other people are lumped together into a homogeneous mass. But I would hope that most of us would recognize our own biases and try not to elaborate on them. It wasn't THAT long ago that people said the same thing about the Jews or the Irish or the Blacks, etc., etc.,.

It's sad that it only takes a temporary shortage of a consumer product to trigger such animosity. It's not insulin. It's not bread. Most of the people who are so upset are only so because they want to be a cool early adopter. They imagine walking into a cafe or their workplace or a party and having everyone oohhhing and awwwwing over their new shiny toy. Wow, what a hero they are in my books. Can anyone really claim to be suffering because they might get their iPad next month?
Click to expand...

At the core I really have no problem with people making a living selling iPads. It's inconvenient for me, as I'm unable to get one immediately, but it's temporary. I'm thankful to have a job with benefits, that pays me all year, not just when it's Apple product launch week. Resellers have to sleep outdoors to get paid. I do not.

That said, I do have some animosity towards the organized buying gangs I've experienced every time I try to buy an iPad 2 here in NYC. They (and I refuse to feel guilty for calling them "they") can be pushy and indignant. Some spit everywhere. Some yell on their phones. Some cut lines or otherwise try to circumvent them. Some invite their "friends" to join them in line, pushing everyone else further back.

Even if what they're doing is legal (assuming they aren't trying to peddle their haul outside of the store without a business license, which apparently some are), it's not what they're doing that's the real nuisance; it's how they're going about it, in a brash, ugly self centered way. By hoarding goods at a retail store for personal gain, they're already warping the intended function of a retail store. But by doing so in an unfriendly nasty manner, they're inviting people's anger, and IMO that anger is justifiable.
 
splitzkreen said:
And sell the iPads to it's intended market at it's intended price.
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Which is exactly what they're doing - selling the iPad to the first people in line with the money to buy it.

As others have already explained, what someone does with their iPad after it has been purchased, is completely up to them, and (I suspect) of little, to no interest to Apple.

They have bigger fish to fry right now - like making sure their supply chain is resilient enough to respond to the recent challenges in Japan. A few scalpers buying up product at a small percentage of stores, for what will most likely be a relatively short timeframe, is not a problem in any real sense of the word.
 
mcdj said:
That said, I do have some animosity towards the organized buying gangs I've experienced every time I try to buy an iPad 2 here in NYC. They (and I refuse to feel guilty for calling them "they") can be pushy and indignant. Some spit everywhere. Some yell on their phones. Some cut lines or otherwise try to circumvent them. Some invite their "friends" to join them in line, pushing everyone else further back.

Even if what they're doing is legal (assuming they aren't trying to peddle their haul outside of the store without a business license, which apparently some are), it's not what they're doing that's the real nuisance; it's how they're going about it, in a brash, ugly self centered way. By hoarding goods at a retail store for personal gain, they're already warping the intended function of a retail store. But by doing so in an unfriendly nasty manner, they're inviting people's anger, and IMO that anger is justifiable.
Click to expand...

Well said. I feel the same way.

I think this is something that Apple needs to badly re-evaluate because it is hurting their image. Some people say that having lines for their products is great free publicity. But when I saw the line in front of the Pasadena store on launch day, as much as I wanted an iPad2, it was just not something I wanted to be part of. A bunch of resellers aren't as attractive as a bunch of Apple loving geeks. It actually looks kind of bad now.

I ordered on line and will get mine this week. I spent my week shopping for accessories, reading the posts on MacRumors, and reading all the reviews on all the gadget blogs. I'm ready for FedEx to deliver now!
 
Seeing the number of threads on this has made me think of other things that are similar. When I wanted a Wii, for example, I could never find them. Instead there were people for years who would clear our every retailer (brick and mortar and online) that had them before I, or many other so-called "good" and "deserving" consumers, could get them. This was well known, and it was a profitable business model for them -- get them and then sell them on ebay or craigslist.

Even worse, in my view, was the zhu zhu pet craze, or whatever hot toy there is every Christmas (didn't this go back to Cabbage Patch Kids or something). People go and clear them out, and sell the for 2X to 3X on ebay or other sites.

Perhaps I just didn't look at the right forums, but there was not necessarily the same degree of venom. Nor was there the characterization, although it's probably likely you could look at the collective group and characterize them by some characteristic.

Perhaps it was because they weren't as overtly and collectively organized, but for anyone who wanted to get a Wii, or a zhu zhu pet for your daughter, they were independently organized and wiped out all of them for the resale market.

I just think that we have to recognize that the iPad isn't different from the other high demand items.
 
Perhaps it could be made in some way illegal when done be people on a large scale, and I don't mean just buying 1 extra one.

Is there some law in place that stops some people buying up tickets to major events that the general public wish to see, and then selling those tickets off at vastly inflated prices as there are no tickets left at the original prices?
 
Piggie said:
Perhaps it could be made in some way illegal when done be people on a large scale, and I don't mean just buying 1 extra one.

Is there some law in place that stops some people buying up tickets to major events that the general public wish to see, and then selling those tickets off at vastly inflated prices as there are no tickets left at the original prices?
Click to expand...

HA HA HA

Good luck policing that.

If they can't stop the flow of soul destroying class A narcotics how can they ever stop people trying to make a quick buck through simple supply and demand.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
 
Piggie said:
Perhaps it could be made in some way illegal when done be people on a large scale, and I don't mean just buying 1 extra one.

Is there some law in place that stops some people buying up tickets to major events that the general public wish to see, and then selling those tickets off at vastly inflated prices as there are no tickets left at the original prices?
Click to expand...



cdallen said:
HA HA HA

Good luck policing that.

If they can't stop the flow of soul destroying class A narcotics how can they ever stop people trying to make a quick buck through simple supply and demand.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Click to expand...

except they do have laws against ticket scalping and they can be relatively easily enforced

You missed his sarcasm....
 
I think everyone who wants an iPad 2 needs to keep playing the game everyone else is playing by simply hunting, paying the extra buck or patiently wait until it's widely available. That's it, plain and simple!
 
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