I don't know why you had to say this. The 13" MBP freezing is a known issue confirmed by Apple!! And the fix he suggested, closing the lid, is recommended by Apple. To imply that it was user error is not right.
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So many people with late 2013 problems. Are there people that don't have issues?
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I don't know why you had to say this. The 13" MBP freezing is a known issue confirmed by Apple!! And the fix he suggested, closing the lid, is recommended by Apple. To imply that it was user error is not right.
Yeah because it goes w/o saying.... if i had a perfect laptop I wouldn't be breaking my neck to get a megaphone and declare.. congrats, i actually got the product that apple advertised ....
I read all of the 'i am having an issue threads' and still bought one...
14 days to return it .. So, suppose you're right. I gain nothing from people stating the obvious expected result : I actually bought a laptop that doesn't have issues. What matters the most actually are the ones that have issues.. because discussing the issues brings awareness for others. If it weren't for the thread about 'creaks'.. I'd have never known what to look out for and would have been stuck w/ a noisy laptop. What do i gain by someone saying : you know what.. mine doesn't creak.. as one would expect.
What's annoying is buying a product and paying a hefty premium only to find that it has issues.. and you might feel as though, you will wait patiently.. but honestly no one should have to. If the laptop makes noise.. it makes noise.. if the screen looks piss yellow.. it looks piss yellow. If the trackpad is freezing it is freezing.. and this is the best place to share that information w/ people. If you aren't having an issue, congratulations.. What is there to discuss? go enjoy the product that you bought that was just as it was advertised. Let the others sort through how they will hopefully get the 'perfect' product you have.
I'm shocked at how passive people are about the laptops with issues. You are paying a Premium for quality. When I buy a BMW, i don't expect to have to cross my fingers and hope my white paint job doesn't have yellow blotches all over it or be squeaking all over the road. I paid a premium for premium quality and that's what I expect. And you're darn right I'm going to complain and throw a fit .. If i hadn't paid an extra $800 to ensure such blunders didn't happen, maybe I would be more calm and patient.
I really wonder if people realize how cheap these things are to build vs how much you pay. For a piss yellow screen to escape the multiple levels of QA they should have, given how much of a premium they charge, is 100% unacceptable. To not realize a laptop is squeaking like crazy via a simple QA test is unacceptable and the more vocal you are .. the more impatient.. the more people who flat out return it and say I am not willing to deal w/ such quality for what I pay and not have someone go tinkering around in their brand new laptop would send a message to Apple and maybe next time, you'd have a lot less issues...
But to sit back and not say a peep and try to calm those that do, is probably the reason why such blaring issues still plague their releases. I think far and beyond the smaller picture. After having had a 17" MBP brick due to the famed Nvidia gfx card issues.. bloating batteries...
Twice .. then the 17" 2007 MBP just started running like crap...
Bought a 2011 .. kernel panics everytime the GPU switches out to the 650m...
bought a 2013 .. squeaks all over it ...
Its blunders like this that cause a company to lose me as a customer.. and more than those who got the product as expected, people with issues need the spotlight the most.
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Probably got a 15in pro that didn't have issues thus you have nothing to have issue with .... I am sure 100% of the people with issues wish they did too. Trust me, i'd much rather be enjoying a perfect mbp. What I'm wondering is what is achieved by stating..
> Bought product X
> Product X was as advertised
What is there to discuss?
So, that battery issue lasted how long? and how long did apple know the battery issue existed.. did they ever switch out the batteries to ones that didn't ? No.. I got 2 replacement batteries over 2-3 years and all of them bloated.. almost damaged my laptop .... So, after years of knowing it was an issue, what did apple do? NOTHING. So, yes. I can blame apple.
What did apple do after antennae gate? Nothing.. stop holding it that way or get a bumper case.
The more consumers deal w/ crap quality the more companies continue to give them crap and tell them 'don't blame me'... As a systems integrator, you're responsible for your suppliers and their quality. if you notice a part you source is crap, you change that part to not crap. When you decide to not do so, you are directly to blame for how it impacts the finished product.
If people weren't paying such a hefty premium, fine... But you get what you pay for.. and when I pay you a premium for quality, I don't want to hear excuses about a poor quality end product that ends up in my lap.. XYZ company gave you a crap part? Cool.. you go deal w/ them and fix it.
Okay, I'll be blunt. There are STUPID people out there. Not everyone is like you and uses "I'm having issues" threads for constructive purposes (what to watch out for, things like that). Some will see that as the product being ridden with issues and a risk to buy when it may not be. Trackpadgate and the 15" creaking are reasonably well-documented issues with the new models. I have a problem with the displays threads because the evidence just isn't there, and it's leading to paranoia. People who have no idea what IR is (myself included) are running the tests and freaking out.
When it comes to reporting issues to Apple, there's no need for people without problems to say anything. That's a given. However, on public forums it's helpful for everyone if a small number speak up occasionally to help determine how common an issue is. It's as simple as the glass being half-empty or half-full. Some people expect issues with every product and are happy when there aren't. Others expect a product to have few or no issues, and freak out when something goes wrong. Feel free to be the former, but don't judge the latter for their ignorance. Help them feel confident in their purchase. It's also a good time to bring up Apple's generally good repair services compared to other manufacturers. Even if an issues arrises, there's no need to panic.
Edit: Just saw your direct reply. If you want to raise all hell about your particular machine, then go for it. Apple doesn't need me to tell them that there's a trackpad issue, and I only had to wait a few days for them to say a fix is coming. You don't need to tell me that Apple uses some cheap parts. The SATA cable on my mid-2009 MBP has failed numerous times; I've taken it in even after AppleCare expired and have gotten it replaced at no charge by remaining calm rather than having a fit in the store. Should I have gotten a warranty replacement by now? Probably, but is it worth arguing over a four year old machine? Not likely. Now if Trackpadgate caused my machine to completely fail and risk losing data, then I might be upset, but it takes less than a minute to correct. Since that's my only issue, I don't see a need to even take it to a Genius (I also distrust the local Geniuses because of the SATA cable thing, but that's beside the point). So feel free to go through life looking at everything as a battle waiting to be fought and continue to post unhelpful replies. I'll remain optimistic and help the people on here who need help.
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15/2.6/16/512 works great. No screen problems but last night after installing Steam/a few games the computer wouldn't boot. Running disk utility didn't help so I had to delete them. Only problem so far.
No, I'm just realistic. I know that NOTHING is perfect. Mine has a bit of a creek to it when I pick it up. After 15-20min I have a tiny bit of IR. When I am actually USING the laptops I don't notice any of these, so they are not issue to me.
If I trade it in I could get worse IR or no IR but maybe something else. If I don't have an "problems" that bother me then they are not problems. I get tired of people here just throwing a hissy fit over the lamest reasons. If you do a lot of photo/video then sure I can see bitching about IR, but people here are doing the test and freaking over it when it's very possible they could have their machines 3 years and never even know it otherwise.
So what if your laptop has a small creak to it? Do you walk around all day flexing your machine or do you put it on your desk/lap and use it?
When discussing a premium product like a Mac which is priced accordingly, its crucial to have these kind of threads. Higher quality and fewer problems are expected.
However I have a feeling over the last few years Apple products have been falling in quality, both hardware and software. Major issues in both, and immediately acknowledged by Apple, which is a sure sign they are very serious defects. iOS 7 is a disaster, it introduced so much lag even on newer iPad's. Mail in Mavericks doesn't work with Gmail - how do you not test such a basic use case? We all know the disaster that was Maps.
It's quite clear Apple QC and famous reliability is slipping badly.
However I have a feeling over the last few years Apple products have been falling in quality, both hardware and software. Major issues in both, and immediately acknowledged by Apple, which is a sure sign they are very serious defects. iOS 7 is a disaster, it introduced so much lag even on newer iPad's. Mail in Mavericks doesn't work with Gmail - how do you not test such a basic use case? We all know the disaster that was Maps.
It's quite clear Apple QC and famous reliability is slipping badly.
Well said!
We need topics on issues, but let's not bash the other side of the medal when people can confirm that some of the issues are not widespread and discourage people in buying.
Let me be blunt....
Here's the deal which even a million dollar company gets much less a hundred billion dollar company SHOULD get ....
When you have customers with REAL issues...
When you have customers freaking out because they feel they might have issues...
You address it. We aren't talking about a $5 part here.. Were talking about a product that ranges anywhere from $1,199 to $3000 .. the lionshare being profit margin...
So, it isn't your duty or anyone else's on this forum to defend apple against the :
> The people w/ REAL issues
> The people who ignorantly believe they have an issues
That's apple's job and that's a job they are paid and profit handsomely for ... So, let apple deal w/ it w.r.t to their bottom line. I personally wont put up w/ a single issue on a brand new product I pay such a hefty premium for. I thought my squeaking issues was due to a screw until I considered a more deeper reason is due to apple cutting corners. I took it in.. they re-tightened the screw set twice.. it still made noise. at that point, I'm done. You dont get another chance. Apple can take back their product, take the loss of now having to refurb it on the chin and hopefully w/ more people doing that and seeing their bottom dollar hit, maybe they'll invest a little bit more in QA.
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Oh no... god forbid people w/ issues speak out.. Hurry up and lets drown em out and remind them of the obvious : they are the minority of apple's customers
. If someone ever ran a business and personally tried this as an owner, they wouldn't be in business for long. This forum is not owned and ran by apple. If you have a perfect laptop, there is no need for you to defend apple. There are people w/ real issues ... let them have their threads and sort it out. If you don't have issues, congrats... you are the obvious majority else it would be blatantly obvious ... Goes without saying.
You ever stop and wonder why not a single product in the apple store has an issue? Because they have better QA on the products they use to advertise to you vs. the ones they sell...
I'm done here. My point has been made. I'm awaiting anandtech's review and giving Apple some time to fix their manuf'ing process w/ improved QA before rebuying a MBP. I always get bit being an early buyer.
What did you expect them to do about the batteries? spend millions to develop their own tech to fix batteries for a laptop that was no longer made? They recalled them all and then replaced them with ones that had a fix to prevent it from happening as much. There was no permanent fix for it. It was Sony's issue to fix, not Apples.
When the Mazda made transmission in the ford escort breaks do you expect Ford to develop a whole new transmission for a car they no longer make? No they will do what they can to the current design to prevent it and then thats it. That how ALL companies operate.
Antenna gate was a mixed bag. It's true that every phone you hold it will drop signal, Apples was either just more honest about it, or dropped faster. I've never actually had me cause any problem on my iPhones, but I've since moved to Android. I grew tired of iOS. Did you expect them to recall every iPhone? That's would be a totally poor business decision. Giving out free bumpers? thats a much better one.
I don't think you really know how businesses operate when you are tearing with MILLIONS of something, not a couple hundred, and they have shareholders to report to.
This thread already has people flagging out some of the issues they've encountered. I think for the investor, yes, more positive threads would be good. But for the consumer, we just need more honest threads. If many people are honestly getting yellow blotches and uneven screens, it needs to be known and Apple should be doing something about it. Not just paying people to post more and more positive threads and have positive marketing drown out all the users with real problems.
If Apple is of such great quality, they should be seeing less complaints than Dell about yellow screens, which is just unheard of. Cat pee smell maybe, but no yellow screen.
If Apple is of such great quality, they should be seeing less complaints than Dell about yellow screens, which is just unheard of. Cat pee smell maybe, but no yellow screen.
I have had the odd freezing issue upon shutdown. Its happened twice. I shut down as normal and the shutdown wheel thing comes up and just keeps spinning for ages so I have to hold the power button.
Im pretty sure its a Mavericks thing. I have had the same happen on my MBA as well, which was running perfectly on Mountain Lion.
I hope they release an update to fix this soon!
Im pretty sure its a Mavericks thing. I have had the same happen on my MBA as well, which was running perfectly on Mountain Lion.
I hope they release an update to fix this soon!
update:
trackpad and keyboard froze last night. closing the lid and waiting 30 secs did not help. had to reboot the machine.
So it is more obvious to you.. You're in your room in the dead of night at 2:00 a.m typing and clicking away.. every time you touch the track pad on the right hand side.. or touch the keyboard in the top left you hear an audible squeaking sound.. It bothers you so much that you start adjusting your physical touch of the laptop to avoid it..
Now kindly tell me why the heck i should put up w/ such an annoyance on a brand new $2,400 laptop? Are people so used to the crap companies put out now-a-days that they consider such a thing minor? I mean really.. explain this to me.
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update:
trackpad and keyboard froze last night. closing the lid and waiting 30 secs did not help. had to reboot the machine.
Boom, and here it starts.... I didn't notice the squeaking until day 5.
I have the high end late 2013 retina MacBook Pro 15", with no options checked. (2.3GHz i7, 16GB Ram, 512GB SSD, dGPU)
No problems, display is beautiful, battery life is great, super fast, been using it since 2 days after the keynote event. Greatest computer I've owned. I consider myself a "power" user.
EDIT: To be fair though, I would like to note that if you are listening to any low quality videos or audio samples at high volume, the right speaker may crackle. It is barely noticeable, and in 2013 most people don't have low quality media on their computer so it isn't an issue at all. Also, it appears to reproducible with many other 15" rMBP's after research.
No problems, display is beautiful, battery life is great, super fast, been using it since 2 days after the keynote event. Greatest computer I've owned. I consider myself a "power" user.
EDIT: To be fair though, I would like to note that if you are listening to any low quality videos or audio samples at high volume, the right speaker may crackle. It is barely noticeable, and in 2013 most people don't have low quality media on their computer so it isn't an issue at all. Also, it appears to reproducible with many other 15" rMBP's after research.
And I'm the kind that would just take the bottom off, and tighten every internal screw I can find then put the cover back on and make sure its tight. Because I know how the things I use work.
I'm tired of seeing people around here complain about things because they don't know how to use a screwdriver. WOUld you rather deal with a squeak? or risk a horrible case of IR? or risk that you may get a machine you think is great to have the SSD fail in 6 months?
NO matter what you will always have the risk of something going wrong, and if its kinder things like a squeak, I'd rather have that then risk getting larger issues. I have mother things to worry about than if my laptop squeaks when I use it. I haven't see anyone ever post a video of the squeaking so it still sounds to me like something that just tightening some screws inside, not just the bottom case, can probably fix.
No company makes 100% of their products. Parts are sourced from everywhere especially in the automotive industry. And since safety and lawsuits are one of the prime concerns regarding faulty parts in cars... Yes, when a parts manuf'r screws up on a part, you the systems integrator are liable.. No matter how old the car is... You have recalls and you bite the costs to fix it .. and you transfer the costs to your supplier. To comment on the automotive industry as if they dont have recalls numbering into the millions for cars 8+ years old speaks to how much you know about business ....
I absolutely know how businesses operate ....
The issue is, since everyone wants to play hush up and take a dump on anyone who points out problems w/ apple's products, you'd never get enough people to participate in a class action lawsuit that'd truly make them accountable for the faults in their products....
Oh wait, wont you just look at this gem :
http://support.apple.com/kb/ts2377
MacBook Pro: Distorted video or no video issues
Symptoms
The NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor repair extension program ended on December 7, 2012. This program provided extended repair coverage for a period of four years from the date of purchase, and as of Dec 7th 2012, it is unlikely products qualify for this extended repair coverage.
Nvidia's fault right? Apple had a recall right? alright, you're wrong.
My Apple customer service experience the last two days:
I bought a BTO 15" and had noticed a loud creak/popping noise when my hand rests next to the trackpad. I also noticed the screen with some uneven coloring at my normal viewing angle.
I called Apple customer support first and talked to them and they said to take it to the Apple Store...which I thought they could not handle replacing a BTO. I then called Apple Care and a guy said the same thing.
Then last night I got a call from someone at Apple Care who told me to call his extension the next day for follow up. So I cancelled my Apple store appointment and called him.
He wasn't aware of the creaking issue, so I recorded the sound on Voice Memos and sent it to him. Now it got interesting, he asked me to go to Apple recovery partition to see if it happened there (he must be looking for something specific). When I opened the browser in the recovery partition, the browser had graphical issues all over it: the search bar was flickering, the scroll bar was flickering, images were flickering. I reordered a video and sent it to him for his engineers to see.
After seeing this, he thought it may be a video card/logic board issue, which the creaking may be caused by too (maybe something is touching), etc... So he ordered me a replacement.
Somehow he must have seen my call earlier in the day and something caught his eye? He said if I have issues with the replacement to directly contact him via his number and email.
Just wanted to say I had a pleasant experience dealing with something that can be frustrating!
I bought a BTO 15" and had noticed a loud creak/popping noise when my hand rests next to the trackpad. I also noticed the screen with some uneven coloring at my normal viewing angle.
I called Apple customer support first and talked to them and they said to take it to the Apple Store...which I thought they could not handle replacing a BTO. I then called Apple Care and a guy said the same thing.
Then last night I got a call from someone at Apple Care who told me to call his extension the next day for follow up. So I cancelled my Apple store appointment and called him.
He wasn't aware of the creaking issue, so I recorded the sound on Voice Memos and sent it to him. Now it got interesting, he asked me to go to Apple recovery partition to see if it happened there (he must be looking for something specific). When I opened the browser in the recovery partition, the browser had graphical issues all over it: the search bar was flickering, the scroll bar was flickering, images were flickering. I reordered a video and sent it to him for his engineers to see.
After seeing this, he thought it may be a video card/logic board issue, which the creaking may be caused by too (maybe something is touching), etc... So he ordered me a replacement.
Somehow he must have seen my call earlier in the day and something caught his eye? He said if I have issues with the replacement to directly contact him via his number and email.
Just wanted to say I had a pleasant experience dealing with something that can be frustrating!
This was done by a professional w/ torque specs and squeaks still happened. Speaking as someone who knows what they are talking about, why dont you take a look at the empty space in your 15" MBP vs a 13" and explain to me how tightening bolts to spec torque resolves rigidity issues due to that 'open' space... and its the reason you dont hear many people w/ 13" mbps complaining.. their cases are more packed w/ solid electronics than the 15". Given the chassis design, this increases rigidity and reduces flex .. signified by 'squeaking' sounds. Flex on sensitive dense electronic boards can cause eventual failures and logic board issues..
Further, I don't risk a darn thing thus why I had a professional look at it. It's brand new product. You hand me a crap product, I hand it back. explain the risk I take. Risk is in settling for subpar quality, tooling around on something that the manuf'ing had no business even shipping or praying a product that already exhibits issues out the box doesn't turn into a brick once your warranty ends... that's risk.
Now, when you get a chance, explain to me .. knowing all there is to apple's chassis design, how you ensured you didn't over torque the bolts? Please paste the manufing pdf that shows what the torque spec is and the precision instrument you used to ensure to torqued it correctly.
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Glad you did the right thing and spoke out about this issue.. This bolded text goes to show you the issues that could lie down the road w/ such build quality .. I've had logic board issues with 2/3 mbps now .. and this just goes to show you how it can start. Him giving you direct contact info shows this is not some stupid issue centered around bolts. Speaking as an engineer at one of these companies... Anytime a customer case comes in and passes multiple levels of Technical support and is escalated to an engineer .. It is quite serious and the reason for giving direct contact info is because I need as much info as possible to try to reproduce and center on a serious issue among the engineering team.
I'm going to give buying a mbp a pause for some time until i feel a bit more comfort about their build quality.. this comes from direct issues w/ a creaking BTO 15" MBP
Thats WHY I used the auto industry as the example. It really seems like you have a comprehension problem. You are explaining to me my own example to you....
Sony did a deal where they they made the batteries, with small changes to try and prevent the issue, free to Apple so they could give free replacements to the users.
Then act like it, so far you are not coming across that you don't even understand what you, yourself are saying.
No the problem is that to many people are just nitpicking. Issues are something that actually prevent the machine form functioning as intended to me. A creek is annoying, but doesn't prevent the item from functioning as advertised.
It was Nvidias fault the issue also effected many Dell and Lenovo laptops, they also had issues for it. And Nvidia provided the replacements parts to Dell/Lenovo/Apple for free so they could afford to do that program. It was not a recall, it was that if you had the issues they would fix it for free. If it was a recall then they would have pulled in every macbook pro made with that chip for a replacement. They did not do that. Did you expect Apple to make a whole new logic board? The program ended when Nvidia stopped making the GPU's needed for that logic board. It' not that Apple shut stopped helping, its that they don't even have the parts to fix it anymore.
What kind of support do you expect on a 4 year old laptop?
After using my new 15" rMBP a little over a week, I returned it due to some small cosmetic damage it had come with. I had almost decided to keep it since I loved the screen and everything else looked great, but in the end several small marks on the aluminum front along with some smudges on the top bothered me too much. Also noticed a little flex in the middle of the back black center strip. Replacement should arrive this Thursday and hoping it's a keeper!