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However, I don't think it's really prescient to criticize a new device for what it cannot yet do, especially when it's the current market leader. That's a trap of discontentment that can be a perpetual cycle of never being satisfied or pleased with what you have.

Well I don't think it's an either/or proposition.

I can enjoy my iPad 2 while still longing for my personal ideal tablet. :D

Some do go to far in criticizing things. But that's the norm, especially on the internet. Lots of negative nancies who do nothing but bitch and moan about everything.
 
Well I don't think it's an either or.

I can enjoy my iPad 2 while still longing for my personal ideal tablet. :D

Some do go to far in criticizing things. But that's the norm, especially on the internet. Lots of negative nancies who do nothing but bitch and moan about everything.

Sure. And there's nothing wrong with "longing". We all do it, to a point.

However, I think the distance something is away from a "better version"-- according to market, technology, or time-- is what determines the RELEVANCY of criticisms leveled against something.

I might be livid that my ipad isn't made out of carbon fiber or cannot make me toast. But based upon technology, intended use, and market factors I would say this criticism is not at all relevant. But that doesn't mean it's not a real issue I've forced myself into dealing with due to my longing or emotions on the matter.
 
I'm still waiting for someone to show me what is so amazing about the Xoom with all of it's specs.
 
However, I think the distance something is away from a "better version"-- according to market, technology, or time-- is what determines the RELEVANCY of criticisms leveled against something.

Oh I agree. I'm guessing we're at least 3-4 years from what I really want coming out--i.e. a tablet with a full pc/mac os that matches the iPads form factor and battery life.

So I'm perfectly fine with the iPad for now and will enjoy it as a multimedia tablet while still using my work provided Thinkpad for work at home (don't have a desktop anymore) and on the road.
 
Savies: clarification?

I *think* what some people think as "savies" aren't really savies. For example, here are the reasons I like Android (none of them are terribly high-tech, you'll notice)

1. File transfer via cable uses standard MSC protocols which can be used on any current OS. This means I can plug my android device into any computer and there's no special software that enforces gatekeeping. There's no limit to how many computers I can connect my device to. Apple keeps upping the quantity of computers you can have an iTunes account on, but to me, it's not reasonable to install iTunes everywhere I want to transfer files.

2. I use Linux. Yes, I know that's a cardinal "ease of usability" sin, but hey, at least it's not Windows, right? ;D It's a nightmare to install iTunes in Linux. This is primarily because iTunes isn't open-source software, and thusly can not be compiled to run in Linux. Apple isn't interested in writing iTunes for Linux, so a vast chunk of the computing world doesn't get the joy of iTunes at all.

3. I've found iTunes to be more of a pain than a joy for me. I loved my iPod Touch, for example, but iTunes had the habit of resizing all the pictures I added to it. That's okay for most people, but for me, it's more important to be able to zoom in to actual pixel resolution, to show people the fine-detail of my sculptures, designs, and charts. There simply was no way of seeing the level of detail I wanted on the device. Yes, I could have cut up the photo into smaller chunks, but that's more time than I really wanted to spend on adding things to my device. I know the reasoning for this shrinking is to keep the interface smooth, and handling high-res images will detroy performance on any processor that wasn't built for it. Smoothness was not as high a priority as being able to read the fine print on my design specs, however.

4. There are some things that Apple doesn't want you to do with their devices. Yes, there's the flash content problem, but I don't care as much about that as I do being able to share my internet connection wirelessly with other computers. It's a great advantage to me to be able to share the 15GB data plan of my 3G network with my girlfriend, people at the table, and the random group of strangers trying to find a free network just to get directions on their laptop. I like to share, and it pleases me to help people. Despite features like this having been out for over a year now, Apple still does not allow it. Sure, you can jailbreak your Apple product and do it with a 3rd party app, but I hate relying on hacks to get me where I'm going, and the possibility of bricking my device with a freshly voided warranty keeps me up at night. :)

5. I like to customise. I like turning on my device and instantly having certain information available without having to scroll through my 40 something apps to find it. In fact, I don't even want to have to open an app. I'm THAT lazy. ;) It should just be there when I turn on the screen. This is what I've come to love with Android on my phone, for example. I have the time where my family lives in Denver, CO., along side the local time in London, so I know if it's too late/early to call them. I also have my top 6 most commonly used application icons there, and a button for Vlingo that I can touch, speak into the phone commands like: "Find best Vegan Restaurant in Wimbledon" and see google come up with the results, without having to type that into the on-screen keyboard. I can also voice commands like: "Message Sarah: I'll be a bit late for lunch. Meet me at Clapham Junction, and we'll decide if it's worth going now or later. Bring money, I can't foot the bill this time. See you soon!" This sends that entire message to my contact Sarah (asking which number to send it to, if there's more than one), and all I have to do is turn off my phone and wait for a reply. There's a lot of innovation happening here, and a lot of high-tech toys. Nearly all of them are software based so far, and Google does an excellent job of adding new features. The main problem people have with it boils down to waiting for various networks to update their own custom flavors of the interface. The Nexus One is supposed to change that, with updates directly from Google, which are automatic, free and riding the bleeding edge of the latest in software/hardware interaction. To me, that's worth a look. :)

My only guess regarding why "savies" (Android fans?) are "hating the iPad2" is for exactly the same reasons that some Apple fans hate Android: It's not what they want, and they are too myopic to see that anyone may want something else. This is a silly perspective to foster...

That's not a good reason to "hate" it, in my opinion. I don't want one, but then again, I don't necessarily want an android tablet either. :)
Neither of them does anything I need them to. For "techie" stuff I'd much rather use a netbook, running a full version of my favorite OS (maybe some VMs with other OSs, just for fun). It's already got the keyboard, all my regular programs, if I need more battery life than my 8hour battery gets, I take a spare along. If I need a tablet, I plug my Wacom tablet into the standard USB ports on the side. That's even got 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity, and industry grade precision for artists. Better yet, I didn't even once have to put my hand/finger over what I'm looking at, having the entire screen available for my applications/windows, etc. No amount of touch-screen wizzardry is going to replace my hotkeys for convenience. I think it, and my hands have already done it, I didn't have to hunt for that stray icon, or search through endless ladders of dialogue for that function. :)

I apologise for those of us "Android fans" that make broad statements without any support. My intention here is not to blast the iPad2 (it's going to be a really cool device that I think a LOT of people will find useful, and I look forward to seeing it around). Nor to speak up the latest Android-based competitor (probably the Xoom, at the moment). But to help answer some of you who were curious about what "savies" might like about Android over Apple's products (from one whose job includes playing with both). There is no "better" anymore. There's just "better for you".

My thought is, if you can't come up with reasons why you hate something, don't hate it... in fact, don't hate anyway, it's extremely bad for you. :)

Cheers to my Apple and Android using friends who came in peace to speak theirs. Shame on all of you who troll these user forums to cause trouble!
 
Because people are never satisfied with what they are given, they always want more.

I agree that at $499, their is no way Apple can include a Retina Display, 5MP Back/2MP Front Camera, 1GB Ram and Minimum 32GB of storage. People are just mad that their fantasy wish list didn't come true.

I disagree. It costs Apple very little to manufacture an iPad or iPad 2 for that matter. It is much different than Microsoft, where they sold the Xbox 360 for less than they actually had in manufacturing the device. MS relies on software sales and royalty fees. Apple makes a killing on every iPad and iPad 2 sold. There is room for 32GB within the $499 price mark. If retail, you can buy a 32GB flash drive for nearly that of a 16GB, you know that the giant Apple can afford the difference at the manufacturing level. There is also room for at least an 8MP camera. The sensor size would remain the same, there would just be a slight upgrade in the resolving power of the sensor.

It's marketing, and great marketing at that.

I do agree that the retina display was unfeasible - definitely - given the size of the screen. The other stuff though, pure marketing. Pure Apple. I do love Apple, but they do a fair share of brain washing.
 
I disagree. It costs Apple very little to manufacture an iPad or iPad 2 for that matter. It is much different than Microsoft, where they sold the Xbox 360 for less than they actually had in manufacturing the device. MS relies on software sales and royalty fees. Apple makes a killing on every iPad and iPad 2 sold. There is room for 32GB within the $499 price mark. If retail, you can buy a 32GB flash drive for nearly that of a 16GB, you know that the giant Apple can afford the difference at the manufacturing level. There is also room for at least an 8MP camera. The sensor size would remain the same, there would just be a slight upgrade in the resolving power of the sensor.

It's marketing, and great marketing at that.

I do agree that the retina display was unfeasible - definitely - given the size of the screen. The other stuff though, pure marketing. Pure Apple. I do love Apple, but they do a fair share of brain washing.
Apparently the iPad 2 has a BOM of 325 or so, which means that there really isn't that much room for flexibility in the pricing and components.
 
Apparently the iPad 2 has a BOM of 325 or so, which means that there really isn't that much room for flexibility in the pricing and components.

Sure, their profit on the 16GB isn't excessively high @ around $175, but figure the cost of memory is near zero nowadays and consider the fact that Apple still forces us to pick between how much memory they think we need. As aforementioned, brilliant marketing, but very dictator-esque. The cost of flash memory is very cheap. The cost of cheap cameras is, you guessed it, very cheap.

With simply bumping the memory up to 32gb, 64gb, and 128gb, even if the going from 16GB to 32GB reduced their profit on the 16GB, they will still have a large profit on the higher capacity iPads, we are only considering memory; however, there is still room, in my opinion, for other components to be upgraded, or new components introduced (such as an SD card), for a less than dramatic effect on profit.
 
I disagree. It costs Apple very little to manufacture an iPad or iPad 2 for that matter.

Then why is it that the competition has to charge even more? Do you really think that the building, design, software, and creation have no cost? You really think that the "cost" of the iPad is the cost of the parts?

In the real world BOM is a fraction of the price of many products. Many of us live in the real world. I have tried to order products from fantasy, but the shipping costs are killer.
 
Sorry, but intellectual property and labor is a moot point when you look at Apple's quarterly profits. Just saying, they could respect the consumer more by giving more of a choice and giving more for the money considering, as said before, the cost of storage is near-zero today.
 
Sorry, but intellectual property and labor is a moot point when you look at Apple's quarterly profits. Just saying, they could respect the consumer more by giving more of a choice and giving more for the money considering, as said before, the cost of storage is near-zero today.

They respect the consumer by trying very hard to make the best product they can make. The consume respects apple by paying a sustainable price for their products. The net is that apple keeps making great products, and trying to make the best user experience they can. Businesses exist to make money. If you don't think it's a fair proposition, find a different one. Obviously Motorola thinks apple's undercharging...
 
It's not unusual for people to say ridiculous things on the internet.

It's not unusual for linux users to not value labor or intellectual property.

That's a people problem, not a Linux problem. Also, what are you referring to? If you're assuming "savies" are limited to Linux users, I have a 10 mile list of high-tech friends of mine who are Mac users. I think "savies" actually have better things to do that dig at people about their iPads.

Every time you use the internet you're benefiting from Linux users taking their own time and trouble to write software for the servers everywhere that compose the vast majority of the internet, many of them have done this in their free time, for no compensation. Bad people are bad people. Some of the best, most generous people are Linux users, and some Linux users are Mac users too.
 
cajhne,

That was a great post earlier (didn't quote since it's so long)! Very well said.

At the end of the day it's just personal preference and there shouldn't be any hate in either direction. Just use what you like best, and accept that others have different needs and wants.

They're just computers and gadgets. Silly to have any hate or even strong opinions over them IMO. It's just as silly as the nerdy kids who get in fanboy flame wars over their video game console of choice.

Use/play what you like and don't worry about what others prefer.

I'll use and enjoy the hell out of my iPad 2 when I get it in a couple days. But at the same time I know it's not perfect and there's a lot I dislike about it both hardware wise and OS wise and Apple policy wise. So I'll happily move on to another platfrom if something more suited to my wants and needs comes out down the road. But for now it's the best tablet for my needs, so I'm happy to buy it and anxiously awaiting its arrival!

I don't have any loyalty to any companies, I just buy the best product for my needs in the category at the time of purchase and use it until I'm ready to upgrade and then I take a look at what's out at that time and make another informed purchase based on what fits my needs. My tablet needs are pretty simple so I probably won't buy a lot of paid apps that tie me to the iOS plaform, so I'll be able to switch if I want to in a year or two or three.
 
That's a people problem, not a Linux problem. Also, what are you referring to? If you're assuming "savies" are limited to Linux users, I have a 10 mile list of high-tech friends of mine who are Mac users. I think "savies" actually have better things to do that dig at people about their iPads.

Every time you use the internet you're benefiting from Linux users taking their own time and trouble to write software for the servers everywhere that compose the vast majority of the internet, many of them have done this in their free time, for no compensation. Bad people are bad people. Some of the best, most generous people are Linux users, and some Linux users are Mac users too.

You must have skipped the posts that proceeded mine. As to the rest of that, well, I'll grant that some good software has been developed under the GPL, but the bast majority of the code that makes up the servers that run the internet were developed under variants of the berkeley license, which doesn't try to poison everything it comes in contact with. And I also agree that not every linux user (or linux programmer) is a lefty with no understanding of the laws of supply and demand, but a large subset of the most vocal ones are...

As to "savies", I wouldn't begin to know what a savie is.
 
There's something I still don't get, who's going to take pictures with a 10 inch tablet? It's not a camera, soon people will start demanding a rear camera in their iMacs
 
or new components introduced (such as an SD card), for a less than dramatic effect on profit.

Actually, my dream for iPad 3 is no holes in the case. Zero. Magnetic induction for recharging via some sort of MagSafe stye thingy. Wireless speakers or headphones for when you want your iPad to make noise. Use the Apple rechargable batteries for speaker power. Virtual home, lock, ect buttons. Wireless sync. Wireless 30 pin dock connector (I have use for serial data, I am in the early stages of a personnal project design that uses it).

For those with issues with the iPad Office Suite:

Numbers works ok, (and I guess Pages) IF you do the spreadsheet on the iPad and export to MS Office. If you start on desktop Excel...:mad: I don't even try anymore. iPad is treated as a mobile device. I understood this back in the PDA day, but now we have a 10 inch screen. Big boy office suite is needed. Not mobile Excel or Numbers. Real Excel or Numbers. (Prefer Excel, never used Numbers on the Mac, I use Open Office, Win/Excel colleagues have no idea.)
 
No no, I'm not targeting you specifically, I'm just saying in general that it does speak volumes that nobody, I mean nobody talks about an important spec on which Apple has a pretty big lead yet anything that Apple doesn't have lead becomes more sensational (we've just had potentially older A8 CPU sensationalism, which was a big topic) Gaming on iOS is a very big thing and we've seen some impressive titles like Infinity Blade or Rage, yet where's the discussion of the new GPU?

For the same token, they'll talk about the Xoom's higher-res display, but rarely anybody talks about other aspects of display: contrast, saturation, color accuracy, viewing angle, etc, all of which Apple leads.

This frankly was the one disappointment for me with the Xoom. The screen just seem a bit dull and the colors are not right. The IPS display makes a huge difference. I really like the Xoom and think 3.0 is a huge step in the right direction, but still waiting for the right hardware to run it. If the Xoom had an IPS display I would own one today along side my iPad 2. I don't care about flash, but I do enjoy tinkering and doing things that Android offers. The aspect ratio is a bit odd when in portait mode, but that is most likely due to the fact I've used a iPad for the past 9 months.
 
You must have skipped the posts that proceeded mine. As to the rest of that, well, I'll grant that some good software has been developed under the GPL, but the bast majority of the code that makes up the servers that run the internet were developed under variants of the berkeley license, which doesn't try to poison everything it comes in contact with. And I also agree that not every linux user (or linux programmer) is a lefty with no understanding of the laws of supply and demand, but a large subset of the most vocal ones are...

As to "savies", I wouldn't begin to know what a savie is.

And... Google is a "lefty" organisation? Surely they don't supply anything useful, and surely they don't make any money off it either. Obviously it's all very insecure... ? You know, from being "poisoned" so much? We're talking about Linux users here, not just software engineers. "Savies" are the topic of this discussion. But your recent line of commentary seems to have strayed from that path to a general bashing of Linux users, and some strange political voodoo that's taken place in your head further equating that "large subset" with other things you don't like. It's just a bit baffling, is all. :p
 
They respect the consumer by trying very hard to make the best product they can make. The consume respects apple by paying a sustainable price for their products. The net is that apple keeps making great products, and trying to make the best user experience they can. Businesses exist to make money. If you don't think it's a fair proposition, find a different one. Obviously Motorola thinks apple's undercharging...

I don't deny that the Apple experience is unequivocal, given that the competition hasn't really come close. And although it is pathetically embarrassing to ship hardware that is defunctioning on day one (Xoom SD card slot) of release because of software, it is up to Apple to step up as the leader.

One could argue that Apple has no reason to give consumers more choice and more for their money, and that person might be right, but I feel something as simple as storage should not be such a definitive piece of hardware in ANY device.

Eventually, you could have as many 32G MicroSD cards of space that you could afford and use them all with the Xoom. That will never happen with the iPad. Good or bad? More bad in my opinion.
 
cajhne,

That was a great post earlier (didn't quote since it's so long)! Very well said.

At the end of the day it's just personal preference and there shouldn't be any hate in either direction. Just use what you like best, and accept that others have different needs and wants.

They're just computers and gadgets. Silly to have any hate or even strong opinions over them IMO. It's just as silly as the nerdy kids who get in fanboy flame wars over their video game console of choice.

Use/play what you like and don't worry about what others prefer.

I'll use and enjoy the hell out of my iPad 2 when I get it in a couple days. But at the same time I know it's not perfect and there's a lot I dislike about it both hardware wise and OS wise and Apple policy wise. So I'll happily move on to another platfrom if something more suited to my wants and needs comes out down the road. But for now it's the best tablet for my needs, so I'm happy to buy it and anxiously awaiting its arrival!

I don't have any loyalty to any companies, I just buy the best product for my needs in the category at the time of purchase and use it until I'm ready to upgrade and then I take a look at what's out at that time and make another informed purchase based on what fits my needs. My tablet needs are pretty simple so I probably won't buy a lot of paid apps that tie me to the iOS plaform, so I'll be able to switch if I want to in a year or two or three.

Good call. I thought about one for use as a wireless 2nd monitor with benefits. :D I haven't seen an app that lets me do that yet, however. Would be great at conventions for setting up interactive displays, run from my laptop, while everyone plays with the iPad as a front-end.
 
Numbers works ok, (and I guess Pages) IF you do the spreadsheet on the iPad and export to MS Office. If you start on desktop Excel...:mad: I don't even try anymore. iPad is treated as a mobile device. I understood this back in the PDA day, but now we have a 10 inch screen. Big boy office suite is needed. Not mobile Excel or Numbers. Real Excel or Numbers. (Prefer Excel, never used Numbers on the Mac, I use Open Office, Win/Excel colleagues have no idea.)

Yeah, that's one big disappointment I have that I didn't learn of until after ordering.

I really hoped I could go back and forth between Pages/Word and Keynote/Powerpoint with no major conversion issues. But that's apparently not the case.

Oh well, I'd only use that occasionally when traveling and not wanting to take my laptop anyway. So now for those kind of trips I'll just do what I do now and take my Laptop for the work stuff and my small and light Kindle for reading (laptop and iPad is to redundant and too heavy) and save the money buy not buying the iWorks apps.
 
There's something I still don't get, who's going to take pictures with a 10 inch tablet? It's not a camera, soon people will start demanding a rear camera in their iMacs

That is one gripe I don't get. I'd like better cameras as it's always better to have better quality.

But my sole use of them is for video calls and they're apparently fine for that. can't be much worse than the crappy webcame on my thinkpad that I use now.

I have a digital camera that fits in my pocket that I use for pics. I won't carry my iPad around when site seeing etc. anyway as I usually don't have a bag, and it would be awkward standing somewhere and taking a picture with a 10" tablet anyway!
 
Oh well, I'd only use that occasionally when traveling and not wanting to take my laptop anyway. So now for those kind of trips I'll just do what I do now and take my Laptop for the work stuff and my small and light Kindle for reading (laptop and iPad is to redundant and too heavy) and save the money buy not buying the iWorks apps.

Haha, maybe a kindred spirit. There's nothing quite like that simple small Kindle with e-ink screen, and free 3G internet for life. I used it to check e-mail last I was in the States as well, no roaming charges, no data caps, nothin! Now THAT's packing light! For most of what I read book-wise, colour isn't necessary and a month of battery life is nice too. I may have a bit of nostalgia for those shades of grey as well. Feels a bit like my ancient Palm Pilot Professional, but, well, good. :) I always have to laugh at people comparing the Kindle it to the iPad. Completely different markets. Half the point is not staring into a bright light, the other half is the size... what's to compare? No one is on the fence as to whether to buy a Kindle OR an iPad. :) Just depends on the features you value most.
 
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