So much complaining

[jerryk]

In another thread I challenged the posters to prove their need for more than 16 gig of memory (other than running multiple VMs) using the current 64 bit processors and OS X.

It was crickets and now you write, "I've been hitting a wall..."

So please inform us how, what programs and what you are doing which absolutely uses over 16 gigs of memory.
And please don't say Final Cut Pro or other rendering programs use it before you check your memory used. These programs are CPU intensive at times, but do not require additional memory to run.

Just so you know I will eat my words and say, "yes I was wrong" if you or anyone else's can show that, besides running multiple VMs, more than 16 gig does something huge benefit in our 64 bit OS X world.

First, You seem to be quick to exclude running VMs. Many of us that use machines for work need to run multiple VMs. This is not a whim. For a lot of professionals, it is part of the job.

Second, there are other tasks that people do that use a lot of memory. I do work in a lot of realms. I do Machine Learning and training models on gigabytes of data uses a lot of memory to hold the models in memory. I also to mobile development and that means running emulators for X86 Android images and big IDEs like Intellij.

And then there is integration of all of the above. This means on my system I can have an instance of an Oracle DB server running, pulling data into routines that modify the data so it can be consumed by Python and TensorFlow to create neural networks. Those NNs that are made available via web services in nodejs or other technologies to clients that are using javascript frameworks like Angular or mobile clients running on Android or IOS.

 

[bjet767]

Does it really matter?

Moderator it does matter.

This "need" is unfounded from a technical position and to continually pound such an idea into others heads is part of this complainer mentality which seems to be viral.

Does he have to "prove anything" no but let's be factual and keep the hyperbole boxed to minimums please.

So relax and let the conversations continue, including the request for factual proofs rather than claims when it comes to technical items.
[doublepost=1480262479][/doublepost]Jerryk

I mention VMs because that is a fact about their need, and if you actually run multiple programs which store while working files and data in memory that exceed 16gig please let the readers know with an example.

The point of my request is simple and you prove, very few people will ever need or even come close to breaking out of the 8 gig memory use let alone the 16 gig one. This is due to the architecture of 64 bit programming and the memory swap of the OS X system. If and when the next step in CPU jumps to 128 bit the yes 8 gig will be the min (4 today) and 32 gig the norm.

But my post and request stands, like it or not.

 

[auero]

Moderator it does matter.

This "need" is unfounded from a technical position and to continually pound such an idea into others heads is part of this complainer mentality which seems to be viral.

The lack of additional memory wouldn't be a concern if it wasn't soldered onto the logic board. Professionals are forced to budget by their department or even their own wallet to buy machines that they'll use for the next X years. It's disappointing for someone to commit to 16GB for the next 3-4 years when they are bouncing in and out of heavy applications all day. I've seen "System has run out of application memory" warnings, have you?

Granted, not all with witness this issue. This is my issue with Apple making a "Pro" line of machines for consumers and professionals. There isn't a one size fits all solution and at the end consumers are struck with higher prices, while professionals are crippled by lower spec components to curb energy usage. There is no winning this discussion because the needs of users differ widely on a case by case basis. My girlfriend uses a rMBP with 8GB RAM and it's plenty for her, while I'll run into a wall time to time when editing large files. There is no middle ground to please all and Apple should be aware of this.

 

[bab5139]

In another thread I challenged the posters to prove their need for more than 16 gig of memory (other than running multiple VMs) using the current 64 bit processors and OS X.

It was crickets and now you write, "I've been hitting a wall..."

So please inform us how, what programs and what you are doing which absolutely uses over 16 gigs of memory.
And please don't say Final Cut Pro or other rendering programs use it before you check your memory used. These programs are CPU intensive at times, but do not require additional memory to run.

Just so you know I will eat my words and say, "yes I was wrong" if you or anyone else's can show that, besides running multiple VMs, more than 16 gig does something huge benefit in our 64 bit OS X world.

My job requires development on windows additionally their vpn is locked down and requires a machine on the domain. Thats 4 gigs on windows 10 where i use lots of memory intesive programs: visual studio, web storm and node.js. Then i have another virtual machine for 3d modeling that requires 8 gigs (3ds max / maya ) but if i bought new licenses i could do most of this on the mac. And another one to run docker containers. In the prior case i have to shut down one to use the other. My consulting work is done mostly on the mac. I work with webstorm, eclipse, xcode, node.js, illustrator, xd, gitter, slack, sketch, etc. i really dont want to have to shutdown one app to open another especially when i need to switch between them. Even just running my basic set of apps, i am at 14.5 gigs with 2.8 compressed. This has been going on for years. I want to be able to keep a single windows vm running with adequate memory, my docker vm and enough memory on the host so i can do either job without having to stop and start things.

Oh and now im getting into ai with machine learning and neural networks. Basically i have to shut diwn everything to run those. I do have a desktop that does a much better job but when i do presentations i would like to be able to show simple examples without it killing my drive thats soldered on to my motherboard.

 

[bjet767]

The lack of additional memory wouldn't be a concern if it wasn't soldered onto the logic board.

You make valid points, but I also see Apple position on why they would do such a thing.

However, this thread is title "complainers" and I find it interesting (and a bit ironic) the moderator would post a mocking picture about a psot challenging the "complainers" in a factual manner.

I purchased the 13" MBP TB based on an occasional need to run VMs well I am a little disappointed that when I run the machine hard (push the CPU up) the battery life is basically no different than my 2015 12" rMB it replaces.

But I would not have purchased the machine had it been the 1/2 pound heavier and larger size of the 2015 13." But not once did I complain that the old 13" was in any way insufficient or less of a device, it just didn't fit my personal desires.

Despite the lack of battery life I think this new 13" will become my primary device for a lot of things. I'm really enjoying the speed at which it runs Final Cut Pro and how I can run Windows 10 well at the same time.

BTW I have tracked the memory use and when using FCP, Handbrake, Word, and xCode all at once I still didn't get to 8 gigs of memory use. OSX appears to very efficient with its use of memory swapping.

Right now I have Safari, VM Ware in idle (Windows not running), Word 2011, and xCode open with a really big iOS project and the memory used is 5 gigs, files cached at 2.9 gigs and zero swapped memory.

Start Win 10 and it takes an additional 1.5 gigs to run, making the numbers 6.5 gig used, 1.5 gig files cached and 0 swapped. Windows seems to not use more than 1.6 gigs while running Serif.

The point is OS X is really good at memory management and I believe that is because under that GUI is really a good UNIX based OS engine.

bab5139

You are stating what I already wrote, VMs require additional memory and as much as possible before swapping and compression will begin. Nothing new here. I too use VM and that is why I purchased the 13".

Now really would it make a difference if your drive was soldered in or not when it maxes out? A 1 TB drive is a 1 TB drive (size wise).

BTW I use VM Ware for VMs and today I just found out why they updated their product, it crashed OSX right in the middle of some work. However, my experience with VM Ware for the last five years is they respond immediately to their problems and provide a fix. More than once a tech has called me personally, a person who has spent just a few hundred $$ on their product over the years, and asked if they solved my issues. Their personalized Tech service is the best!

 

[kinster]

Another "complaining" thread like this one.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-ridiculous-now.2013322/page-11#post-23972592

 

[bab5139]

@bjet767 - i was asked a question so i provided a response. My answer wouldnt have made sense if i left out vm's. Training a nueral network can cause excessive paging if you don't have enough memory. SSD chips have a limited write lifetime and therefore this kind of activity will cause premature wear. I was not talking about running out of space.
[doublepost=1480270530][/doublepost]And just for good measure

[doublepost=1480270779][/doublepost]

Another "complaining" thread like this one.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-ridiculous-now.2013322/page-11#post-23972592

That one has gotten hostile

 

[bjet767]

Babs

Yep it does and the unix server people discuss just how much swap memory is needed to accomplish what you are doing.

In your picture you have already swapped over a gig and yes more than 16 gig would really help. One of the dangers of swapping, but I think Apple has it covered, is making sure the OS has enough swap memory declared to cover its needs. I believe, but I'm not an expert on it, I heard if one plans on using swap often the declared need should equal the actual memory size hard installed. I don't think there's any easy way to increase swap memory size in OS X, if there is maybe someone will let us know.

I also read somewhere even though more memory is good for networking services there are physical limits and that is one of the purposes of swapping, it keeps the network operating and it's efficiency is dependent on the server's OS.

Good on you and thank you for letting the readers know what a real need is for a lot of memory. Most of us will never use even 8 gigs in the normal "pro" (I write that in jest) use of a laptop or desktop computer.

Did you noticed how much "wired" memory you use over the actual app requirements. The OS is really allocating a lot of memory for you're n networking processes. Cool!

I just did a quick render in Handbrake, no change in wired memory. A quick FCP export uses about 200 mb of wired memory.

So neither are really memory intensive but they do bump the CPU up nearly 55% over idle. Moral of story for most users; faster CPU will help some things.

Thanks again for the input.

For those wondering, the way I understand it "wired" memory is that memory reserved by the OS for it to run the processes. Essentially the OS reserves memory for it run and programs can't use that reserved memory on their own.