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SoftBank Nears Deal to Sell Arm to Nvidia [Updated]

The following are the deal highlights:

  • Price: $40B, NVIDIA stock and cash
  • Accretion: immediately accretive to NVIDIA non-GAAP gross margin and EPS
  • Cambridge investments: Create “world-class” AI research and education center for healthcare, life sciences, robotics, and self-driving cars. Also, build an Arm/NVIDIA-based AI supercomputer for research
  • Softbank ownership: Will keep 10% stake in new entity
The following are the operating highlights:

  • Arm operating structure: Arm will operate as an NVIDIA division
  • Arm locality: Arm will continue to be headquartered in Cambridge
  • IP locality: Will keep registration in the UK
  • Licensing model: continue to operate its open-licensing model while maintaining its global customer neutrality
New opportunities

The new NVIDIA-Arm combination now plays in nearly every market segment in the datacenter, edge of datacenter, personal computers, smartphones and the IoT. My imagination runs wild with the possibilities of:

  • More “big-core” Arm datacenter general-purpose processors
  • Bigger CPU, GPU, NPU, and networking datacenter combinations
  • CPU-GPU-NPU combination with shared memory systems for the HPC market
  • NVIDIA-based smartphone and tablet GPU/NPU IP
  • Arm-based SoC for Windows notebooks
  • Arm-based big core CPU for highest-performance Windows desktops
 
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alchemistmuffin said:
This is probably going to make Apple very unhappy.

they already hate nvidia to the core (no pun intended) and I would NOT be surprised if Apple started to create their own instruction set for future Apple Silicon chips, just to give nvidia the finger.
Click to expand...
Apple is likely indifferent. They have a long term ISA license. They’d never be allowed to buy ARM themselves, and their dispute with NVidia is strictly business, not political.
 
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Ulfric said:
New opportunities

The new NVIDIA-Arm combination now plays in nearly every market segment in the datacenter, edge of datacenter, personal computers, smartphones and the IoT. My imagination runs wild with the possibilities of:

  • More “big-core” Arm datacenter general-purpose processors
  • Bigger CPU, GPU, NPU, and networking datacenter combinations
  • CPU-GPU-NPU combination with shared memory systems for the HPC market
  • NVIDIA-based smartphone and tablet GPU/NPU IP
  • Arm-based SoC for Windows notebooks
  • Arm-based big core CPU for highest-performance Windows desktops
Click to expand...
But why would Nvidia have to spend $40 billion to acquire ARM? They could have done all of that all along. Buying ARM doesn't solve the problems of having to design and manufacture high-performance ARM CPUs and somehow overcome the >99% marketshare of x86 in the datacenter and PC markets, as well as the dominance of Qualcomm on non-Apple mobile devices (remember that Nvidia doesn't have a cellular modem).
 
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Ignorant question: what prevents ARM from raising licensing cost of its instruction set (i.e. what Apple uses) by a factor of 10 for ARM v9 or some future generation?
 
alchemistmuffin said:
This is probably going to make Apple very unhappy.

they already hate nvidia to the core (no pun intended) and I would NOT be surprised if Apple started to create their own instruction set for future Apple Silicon chips, just to give nvidia the finger.
Click to expand...

Well they can transition to another instruction set in twenty years, but they better not do it before that.
 
”Apple’s chips do use the ARM64 instruction set, but I believe Apple already has a perpetual license for that. Apple does not license chips or chip designs from Arm — Apple’s chips are its own designs, which is why they offer performance unlike those of any other Arm licensee. This too is why Apple wasn’t interested in itself acquiring Arm Holdings: Arm’s business is about licensing technology to other companies; Apple’s business is about keeping its technology for itself.”
Click to expand...

Source: daringfireball.net
 
BeatCrazy said:
Ignorant question: what prevents ARM from raising licensing cost of its instruction set (i.e. what Apple uses) by a factor of 10 for ARM v9 or some future generation?
Click to expand...
probably nothing, besides agreements ARM has in place.

Look, If nvidia can make a mobile GPU to work with ARM that can compete w/ AMD ryzen, they will want ARM processors on as many devices they can. Why would they raise the licensing price when ARM could be the gateway they need to get their Gforce GPU's on phones, tablets, & ultrabooks/2 in 1 laptop?
 
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BeatCrazy said:
Ignorant question: what prevents ARM from raising licensing cost of its instruction set (i.e. what Apple uses) by a factor of 10 for ARM v9 or some future generation?
Click to expand...
Nobody would use them anymore at such inflated prices. RISC-V would quickly become the preferred choice for most of today's ARM customers.
 
endlessike said:
How do you know its perpetual?
Click to expand...

Regardless, Apple declined to buy ARM. They don't seem to think it will affect them.

Apple is reportedly an Architectural license of Arm




ARM_licensing_pyramid.jpg


Architectural licensees get a set of specs and a testing suite that they have to pass, the rest is up to them. If they want to make a processor that is faster, slower, more efficient, smaller, or anything else than the one ARM supplies, this is what they have to do. Qualcomm’s Snapdragon line and Apple’s A6 are probably the most widely known current products resulting from an architectural license but far from the only ones. ARM says there are currently 15 architectural licensees which means most are not public yet.
Click to expand...

semiaccurate.com

A long look at how ARM licenses chips

People routinely ask SemiAccurate about ARM CPUs which is an odd question because ARM makes absolutely no silicon.
semiaccurate.com semiaccurate.com
 
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Would be very interesting to see if we will see a CPU+GPU stack from Nvidia to compete with AMD, Intel and Apple.
 
Can Apple Silicon GPU’s in the next Mac Pro compete with NVIDIA Ampere? I’m curious to know. AMD have made good progress but Intel and NVIDIA are not laying down.
 
Ries said:
ARM used to be Switzerland, selling to everyone. If Nvidia owns it, they might not be so forthcoming with sharing improvements.
Click to expand...
That would lead to the same pitfall Apple itself was clearly avoiding. You can't own ARM and then hold out. You'll have to license, and if the owner of ARM keeps major innovations to itself, it'll result in an avalanche of lawsuits (which the owner of ARM will lose). Anyway, that's how it would have been if Apple had bought ARM. And I kind of think it'll be the same
AZREOSpecialist said:
That's called a tie-in agreement and it's illegal.
Click to expand...
Isn't that basically what Qualcomm did (and got away with)?
 
alchemistmuffin said:
This is probably going to make Apple very unhappy.

they already hate nvidia to the core (no pun intended) and I would NOT be surprised if Apple started to create their own instruction set for future Apple Silicon chips, just to give nvidia the finger.
Click to expand...
My thoughts too. It's apple silicone, not apple on arm.
 
I wonder if this deal will open up a relationship with Apple over their use of AMD. Does anyone have an opinion on Nvidia vs AMD?
 
Porco said:
I suppose it’s good they reached out, even if Apple didn’t embrace the offer. Hopefully however this goes, Apple won’t be getting the elbow.

(Yes, they’re Arm gags, sorry)
Click to expand...
They can't get the elbow. On top of assisting ARM with their first CPU they also have a license that lets them do anything with ARM v6 for eternity.
 
Moyapilot said:
Nvidia has obviously done their homework and sees benifits to owning Arm. Why do fanboys always make it sound like its of no value just because Apple isn’t buying? Apple probably has enough lawsuits on its hands that it didn’t want to take on any more. But thats just a wild guess and I’m sure their are other reasons.
Click to expand...
There is no value for Apple to become a CPU manufacturer for others. Meanwhile NVidia tried this in the x86 market and Intel/AMD shut them out.
 
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