Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Software Update to Move Inside Mac App Store in OS X Mountain Lion

I'd rather keep Software Update and open it up with new APIs so it can be used by the Mac App Store, or by third-parties to update their apps, parts of their apps and so-on by providing a URL and meeting some open standards.

This is for two simple reasons. Firstly, I don't want to have to use Apple's products for everything to do with my Mac; I'd like to be able to sync a mobile device that isn't an iPhone, because I simply don't need one. Further to this; I don't want Apple to use Mac OS as a tool to force people to buy other Apple products, Apple is more than capable of competing through cool-factor and ease of use, they don't need to hurl themselves into anti-competitive territory. Yet we've already lost iSync in Lion, with no sign of a replacement, so it's currently iPhone or nothing; Windows meanwhile will sync with just about every device I throw at it.

Secondly; the more features get mashed into the Mac App Store and iTunes, the worse everything becomes. We need one program for searching and buying apps, a service for auto-updating them, and a music player that's actually just a music player once more. I would pay for a Mac OS version that did nothing but that.
 
Currently, iOS devices have two places to update too, the app store for apps, and if you go to settings, there is a place to update your iOS.... Lion is the same...

Their excuse for making the transition easier for people who came from the iPhone is invalid, unless they allow you to update the OS from the app store on the iPhone.

However, I like the consolidated update in Mountain Lion, I think it is a great idea... just that the excuse they gave was incorrect.
 
I consider having the App Store app in my dock just advertising, so I don't do it. I resent having to manually go and start an app to see if I need to download updates. This is a major step backwards from automatic announcing done in earlier Mac OS, or for that matter Microsoft Windows and even major Linux distros!
 
This is all fine, as long as they bring proper push notification to the App Store. As it is now, you have to open it to check for updates, which is far from ideal.
 
I had complained about the separation of the two update systems in the past. I had hoped they would push MAS updates into Software Update since that is run periodically and very attention getting. I never ever open the MAS or have it in my Dock. Software update now opens the MAS?


talmy said:
I consider having the App Store app in my dock just advertising, so I don't do it. I resent having to manually go and start an app to see if I need to download updates. This is a major step backwards from automatic announcing done in earlier Mac OS, or for that matter Microsoft Windows and even major Linux distros!
Click to expand...
Sparkle handled it the best in my opinion. The more often you used the application, the more often it was updated. Checking for updates on application start gave you a heads up before anything else happened.
 
Merge Software Update functionality at least?

As others, I find the Software Update UI way more informative and useful than the the Lion App Store's Update tab UI.

With the current (Lion) App Store, you have no idea how large an update is until you've started it. (E.g., the huge updates for various Apple products, including XCode.) With Software Update, you have more information - including size - and a link to a KB article with further links to separate download pages.

Presumably at least some of the SU UI/content will have to be rolled into the App Store to at least indicate which updates require a restart/reboot.

Hopefully, a revised App Store will have at least some of iTunes' download functionality as well, such as the ability to pause/resume downloads and to control how many can download concurrently. Important for those of us on 1.5 mpbs DSL and slower who need to pause things to get some actual work done at times. Giving the App Store lower priority internet access in the OS won't resolve that since other machines on the network may need network access requiring a pause of update downloads. (Would not be a big deal if Apple would release small delta updates to their own apps - but so far, the App Store updates to Aperture, Final Cut, Motion, Compressor and XCode have been HUGE.)

Cheers,
Karl
 
ixodes said:
This makes a lot of sense as Apple strives to consumerize their devices. An automated appliance like approach, will be very well received by all the retired seniors I see frequenting Apple Stores. Always one to favor simplicity, Apples right on the money with this choice.

For those of us professionals it's time to brace for the obvious.
Click to expand...

All they're doing is combining two applications that really should have been combined earlier. It would make sense that the app that updates your OS and downloaded apps would also update your security, OS revisions, etc. I don't see how this makes it less professional.

----------

Software Update was too problematic and clunky. It didn't keep a list of installed updates that I could view without using Terminal, it took a long time to check for updates, it sometimes installed stuff that required other stuff that I didn't have (iTunes requiring the latest Quicktime), and it sometimes didn't even provide me with the proper updates (I just installed Leopard on my MacBook, and it neglected to give me the latest Quicktime).

Hopefully they'll fix this.
 
1 year after last update? and expected to shell out more money?. :mad:
I purchased SL, lion as they were only $30, over 2 years thats pretty cool. If this turns into a yearly cycle it will end up doubling the cost to keep up to date, then add in some hidden costs such as in app purchases for osx and we'll be back to pre 2008 prices of OSX.
 
Last edited:
coolspot18 said:
Prices better be lower on the Mac Apple store.
Click to expand...

They have to remove the tariffs. Most people avoid the App Store because a lot of apps cost extra there or cost money even though they are freeware normally. Just make it have a fee for the hosting and remove the tariffs so the Mac App Store can become pretty much the only source of Mac apps.
 
applephanatic said:
I like this idea, however I do not keep the mac app store in my dock, I hope that they will keep the added ability to just check for software updates through well... software updates
Click to expand...

just push notifications into notification area would do the trick..
 
ixodes said:
This makes a lot of sense as Apple strives to consumerize their devices. An automated appliance like approach, will be very well received by all the retired seniors I see frequenting Apple Stores. Always one to favor simplicity, Apples right on the money with this choice.

For those of us professionals it's time to brace for the obvious.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Apple targets consumers first, corporations second.

Side note: I find it stunning how entrenched the financial industry is in Windows. I mean, Microsoft could charge a killing for their office and Windows products and my company, and every other one, would have no choice but to pay up. Poor IT staffs and mission critical software that only runs on one platform. Those guys in Redmond have an entire industry by the balls.
 
DrKarl said:
As others, I find the Software Update UI way more informative and useful than the the Lion App Store's Update tab UI.

With the current (Lion) App Store, you have no idea how large an update is until you've started it. (E.g., the huge updates for various Apple products, including XCode.) With Software Update, you have more information - including size - and a link to a KB article with further links to separate download pages.

Presumably at least some of the SU UI/content will have to be rolled into the App Store to at least indicate which updates require a restart/reboot.

Hopefully, a revised App Store will have at least some of iTunes' download functionality as well, such as the ability to pause/resume downloads and to control how many can download concurrently. Important for those of us on 1.5 mpbs DSL and slower who need to pause things to get some actual work done at times. Giving the App Store lower priority internet access in the OS won't resolve that since other machines on the network may need network access requiring a pause of update downloads. (Would not be a big deal if Apple would release small delta updates to their own apps - but so far, the App Store updates to Aperture, Final Cut, Motion, Compressor and XCode have been HUGE.)

Cheers,
Karl
Click to expand...

Restart warnings and KB articles are visible in the screenshot posted with the article.
 
haravikk said:
I'd rather keep Software Update and open it up with new APIs so it can be used by the Mac App Store, or by third-parties to update their apps, parts of their apps and so-on by providing a URL and meeting some open standards.

This is for two simple reasons. Firstly, I don't want to have to use Apple's products for everything to do with my Mac; I'd like to be able to sync a mobile device that isn't an iPhone, because I simply don't need one. Further to this; I don't want Apple to use Mac OS as a tool to force people to buy other Apple products, Apple is more than capable of competing through cool-factor and ease of use, they don't need to hurl themselves into anti-competitive territory. Yet we've already lost iSync in Lion, with no sign of a replacement, so it's currently iPhone or nothing; Windows meanwhile will sync with just about every device I throw at it.

Secondly; the more features get mashed into the Mac App Store and iTunes, the worse everything becomes. We need one program for searching and buying apps, a service for auto-updating them, and a music player that's actually just a music player once more. I would pay for a Mac OS version that did nothing but that.
Click to expand...

Just don't use iTunes for the store. I just use it to keep my large library of music I took from CDs (and some from YouTube). I disabled Ping in Parental Controls, and I would do the same for the store if I didn't download any iOS apps. I've never used iSync before because it didn't work with any phone I ever had, but I was able to sync my stuff easily using Bluetooth.

All they are doing is combining the Software Update with the Mac App Store. It's not any kind of anti-competitive force. It just makes sense that you'd get your Apple updates from the Mac App Store.

----------
funkdis said:
1 year after last update? and expected to shell out more money?. :mad:
I purchased SL, lion as they were only $30, over 2 years thats pretty cool. If this turns into a yearly cycle it will end up doubling the cost to keep up to date, then add in some hidden costs such as in app purchases for osx and we'll be back to pre 2008 prices of OSX.
Click to expand...

Nobody is forcing you to buy apps, and $30/year to always be on the latest OS (which is a luxury) is very good, especially compared to Windows. I'm staying at Leopard with no problems. Besides, these last 3 OS updates have been pretty minor compared to Leopard vs Tiger and earlier.
 
mw360 said:
Restart warnings and KB articles are visible in the screenshot posted with the article.
Click to expand...

Thanks! You have WAY better eyes than I do. Got my face right up to the screen to confirm. Good news. :)

Now for showing size and pause/resume...
 
kyjaotkb said:
Imagine if Microsoft forced you to use an MSN account to let you upgrade your system (e.g. essential security upgrades).
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be a problem. Mac OS already prompts you to make an Apple ID when you first start it, and I don't know anyone who doesn't have one. It's a free account with a lot of current and future capabilities (tracking your updates, checking for compatibility with apps, saving your settings, etc).
 
jdguggs10 said:
Exactly. Apple targets consumers first, corporations second.

Side note: I find it stunning how entrenched the financial industry is in Windows. I mean, Microsoft could charge a killing for their office and Windows products and my company, and every other one, would have no choice but to pay up. Poor IT staffs and mission critical software that only runs on one platform. Those guys in Redmond have an entire industry by the balls.
Click to expand...

And Apple or any other company would love to be in the same position. They'd behave no differently to microsoft.

Its not just the financial market, its most businesses.
 
Variant said:
If they are going to do this, they need to DRASTICALLY improve the performance and stability of the app store. Right now it as possible the slowest Apple software on any of my Macs.
Click to expand...

That’s weird, because downloading on the Mac App Store (which is all I use it for, after all) has always been faster for me than any other download method I use. The data rate seems to be absolutely at the peak for some reason.

Stella said:
And Apple or any other company would love to be in the same position. They'd behave no differently to microsoft.
Click to expand...

Historical note: They did--they charged high in the 90s for graphic arts/publishing hardware because there was no other viable choice but Macs.
 
Wrathwitch said:
Darn, I think I am getting old. I don't use the app store on my iMac, not even sure where the app icon is (likely apps haha). I like just checking the drop down apple without having to go looking for updates.

There was nothing wrong with it the way it was.

Yeap, I am starting to sound curmudgeony....
Click to expand...

I believe you'll still be able to use the Apple menu dropdown in the upper left corner. It will just open the Mac App Store app instead of Software Update. I'm just hoping it will still allow for the daily/weekly automatic checking to notify you without any interaction.
 
Sigh. I don't like this.

I much prefer an app telling me when it has an update and allowing me to update right then and there. I hate having to open another app to update.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back