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Software Update to Move Inside Mac App Store in OS X Mountain Lion

Server

For those interested in ML Server...

All services moved to Server.app (no more Server Admin, although the tools MAY be available to download later, I suspect Server Admin and WGM are dead)

Server.app contains:
NetBoot (now called NetInstall)
System Image Utility available from the Tools menu
DNS
Messages (was iChat)
Open Directory

NO SOFTWARE UPDATE SERVER!
bugger...

EDIT: FTP is BACK! woohoo! (I think)
 
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End of the road

Well, that's it, no going beyond Snow Leopard for me. When I can no longer hack SL onto Mac hardware, it's time to give other hardware that will load SL a run.

I will not ever get an Apple ID.
 
Corporate nightmare

This is a nightmare for the Apple Tech in the corporate environment. For two reasons.

1. I had to spend all last summer finding hacks for all the parts of Lion that didn't work properly in an AD environment, now I'll have to do it again this summer...thanks Apple.

2. It took months for Apple to come up with an answer for how we bulk purchase and distribute Lion (seriously - only just got the licenses this week), and even then it's a fudge (download once from App Store, create a share, let people access the share...i.e. impossible to fully control distribution).

So it looks like they're moving towards using your Apple ID for everything - even sudo commands? They need to offer some way for businesses to distribute and manage Apple IDs on behalf of their users, or better still integrate them into AD.

As for putting Software Updates into the App Store, I don't want to go through all the advertising crap of the default App Store page to get to my Software Updates.

And the Server App - sooo slow and amateurishly designed. Such a step back from Server Admin. They need to improve this drastically if it's to become the only.

And no SUS? You're kidding me?

Finally, how much longer will Snow Leopard be supported, following the 2 OSes rule? That means machines only 2 years old might not be supported much longer...

This is all scary stuff Apple. Seriously, I can see the security guys starting to demand we install Windows on all our Macs unless there's some good answers!

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Stella said:
Most people would have an Apple ID when they purchased Lion.. unless it was via a new machine or USB key.
Click to expand...

Not in the corporate environment either.
 
mungo2k said:
Not in the corporate environment either.
Click to expand...

Nope. Apple haven't thought this one through. It may not even care.. concerntrate on consumers.

Ironically, OSX machines are increasing in the workplace....

I'm not surprised the Server App has been dumbed down... XServes gone.. Apple couldn't breakthrough.
 
I thought (hoped) this would happen at some point and think it's a step in the right direction - now we just need command-line support! This could so easily become a great command-line tool like apt. I would love to nuke macports. Imagine: sudo appstore install wget
 
Am I the only one that finds it weird that the OS will receive updates from the Mac App Store? I didn't realise OSX would be an app from now on.

AriX said:
Good move as far as consolidation, but Software Update has a better UI.
Click to expand...

I think Software Update has a good UI for showing the relevant information about the update without the need to launch a full program.

hollerz said:
I don't mind this at all, but I don't want the App Store in my dock all the time. Hopefully it'll provide push notifications in notification centre.
Click to expand...

I have only downloaded three things from the Mac App Store, so it doesn't make sense for me to keep it in my dock and add clutter. I really hope these update notifications go to the notification centre.
 
Stella said:
But you need an Apple ID to download Mountain Lion.
Click to expand...

I know. I'm just a little uneasy about the direction Apple is taking.

Like someone else already said, I bet OSX 10.9 will do away with certificates for non-app store products.

I guess most people are okay with that, then. I'd rather have an open platform at the expense of a little security.
 
mungo2k said:
As for putting Software Updates into the App Store, I don't want to go through all the advertising crap of the default App Store page to get to my Software Updates.
Click to expand...

In the current build, selecting "Software Update..." from the Apple menu takes you directly to the updates page.

Finally, how much longer will Snow Leopard be supported, following the 2 OSes rule? That means machines only 2 years old might not be supported much longer...
Click to expand...

Seems like Apple has pretty consistent about supporting Macs released in the last 4 years with each OS X release.
 
doelcm82 said:
I would HATE that. It's a pet peeve I have about Windows. When you're trying to sneak out of work so the boss can't ask you to work the weekend, and it tells you "Please don't turn off your computer. Installing update 1 of 23".

Or, I'd be working hard in a VM window, and suddenly the computer starts to shut down, because it was installing updates in the background and one of them required a restart.

I like that Apple by default says "you have updates", but you can easily say "remind me later."
?
Click to expand...

There's nothing worse than using windoze at work, taking a lunch break only to find your computer has restarted because there's no way to stop microsoft updates from continuously reminding you you need to restart your computer to install updates.

I was hoping for a solution where updates occur in the background when your computer is plugged in but yes if a restart is required it should let you know ONCE and that's it.
 
no

haravikk said:
I'd rather keep Software Update and open it up with new APIs so it can be used by the Mac App Store, or by third-parties to update their apps, parts of their apps and so-on by providing a URL and meeting some open standards.

This is for two simple reasons. Firstly, I don't want to have to use Apple's products for everything to do with my Mac; I'd like to be able to sync a mobile device that isn't an iPhone, because I simply don't need one. Further to this; I don't want Apple to use Mac OS as a tool to force people to buy other Apple products, Apple is more than capable of competing through cool-factor and ease of use, they don't need to hurl themselves into anti-competitive territory. Yet we've already lost iSync in Lion, with no sign of a replacement, so it's currently iPhone or nothing; Windows meanwhile will sync with just about every device I throw at it.

Secondly; the more features get mashed into the Mac App Store and iTunes, the worse everything becomes. We need one program for searching and buying apps, a service for auto-updating them, and a music player that's actually just a music player once more. I would pay for a Mac OS version that did nothing but that.
Click to expand...

for some reason I feel safer when software update is completely separate from other dev's updates. Its that kind of paranoia that people make fun of... then I end up fixing their crap.
 
So does this mean we will get a new ilife 12 soon via the app store? And for those who have installed ilife from dvd will it detect and move that across to the app store too for future updates?

The app store already has flaws, if your mac is replaced by applecare it is ordered by an applecare ID which means you can not get updates for the free software as that requires the original ID that purchased it .. If you contact Apple about this they just send you free codes to download the software again but this doesnt help if you want to sell or pass your mac on.

I like to embrace change but only if it works... they really do need to sort the merging of Apple ID's out.
 
iLilana said:
for some reason I feel safer when software update is completely separate from other dev's updates. Its that kind of paranoia that people make fun of... then I end up fixing their crap.
Click to expand...
Why? All Software Update really does is check an update-site, all it'd be is publishing how to handle your own update site, and add URLs to Software Update. Add signing so it's easy to see, and verify, where an update is coming from and what it's for.

Then make it all a background service and stuff it into the Notification Centre. That avoids the clutter of having two apps doing updates, neither of which really need to when a service will do, at which point the Notification Centre becomes the ideal means for seeing when updates are available/downloaded.
 
hollerz said:
I don't mind this at all, but I don't want the App Store in my dock all the time. Hopefully it'll provide push notifications in notification centre.
Click to expand...

It's in the Apple menu, too. Just like the Software Update feature.

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pancakedrawer said:
There's nothing worse than using windoze at work, taking a lunch break only to find your computer has restarted because there's no way to stop microsoft updates from continuously reminding you you need to restart your computer to install updates.

I was hoping for a solution where updates occur in the background when your computer is plugged in but yes if a restart is required it should let you know ONCE and that's it.
Click to expand...

You can disable it (without disabling updates completely) but I totally agree. I think it's one of the worst design decisions in software, I can't believe they were that stupid to think it'd be a good idea. For novice users especially it'll make them feel out of control and for me when I play games or watch a movie it's a real pain as the notification never shows up so it just randomly restarts.
 
As long as I can continue to download combo updates, that is all I care.

When I have 3 Apple machines in the house, I do not wish to download GBs of updates three times :rolleyes:
 
Bash script it as launchd job and assign it a time.

Of course, as SUS is on the way out, who knows if terminal based options are going to remain as straightforward as 'sudo softwareupdate -i -a'...

It'll work itself out in the wash, at least for end users. I'm concerned that we enterprise fools are in for more tough times. (I just made the move from SUS to Reposado this week... I'm now wondering if I'll wind up with quarterly lab reimages or having to implement some other weird fix for Apple's disinterest in education/enterprise...).

This is one of the biggest reasons why I'm a department of one in an organization that has massive infrastructure and policies dictating workflow for the rest of the house. No wonder they all chuckle at me.

pancakedrawer said:
A few options on this would be nice such as limiting to when the computer is not being used or between midnight and 6am etc.
Click to expand...
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

There's of course no technical reason for this change of policy at Apple, they just want your info and your credit card number.
Click to expand...
Yep. Apple is turning a once highly sophisticated and powerful operating system into an App. They are increasely just using Mac OS (which is no longer even called Mac OS) as a vehicle for advertising other Apple products.
 
Speculation Nation

Hey y'all save yer bellyaching :rolleyes:
Without NDA-breaking-specificity let me just say
The sky isn't falling.
Terminal textualist don't despair.
It's a transition for GUIs is all.
 
I work in academia, and can say that software updates via the app store is a royal pain in the ass. Really creates headaches for our lab managers when they need to update the software in OS X 10.7.

Since Lion, I went from loving Macintosh for the last 6-7 years, to now thinking about switching back to Windows. This crap about making the desktop OS work and feel like iOS feels like a huge step backwards. I am also very turned off by the whole App Store integration. Maybe this works good for home users, but for users in corporate and academia, it creates all new headaches.

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jonnysods said:
Wow, what happens when you want to update a bunch of machines at the same time? Run all over the building clicking update?
Click to expand...

Worse than that. Since you don't want the App Store on end users machines, and public machines, you need to download the updates to a main computer. Then push them out by hitting all of the machines manually. Really obnoxious.
 
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