[solved] Why do Iphone photos remain on Iphone when deleted from ICloud?

[karine]

I have ICloud Photos enabled on three devices: Iphone iOS 15.4, Ipad Ipad iOS 14.0, and Macbook Pro Catalina 10.15.3. All the devices store full-size photos. Iphone is now out of memory. It is the main source of new photos. When I erase photos on Ipad or on Macbook (on bigger screen, it is easier to choose the best photos), they are not erased on the Iphone. Why?

I tried to check my Iphone for duplicates (if possibly the remained photos are copies of the erased ones), however RemoDuplicateCheck did not give any answer on the Iphone, it was stuck after counting the overall number of photos.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Have you checked your photos settings?

 

[karine]

Have you checked your photos settings?

Which ones?
On Iphone, ICloud Photos is ON, Download and Keep Originals is ticked, Transfer to Mac and PC - Keep Originals.
On Ipad, the same.
On Macbook, ICloud Photos is ON, Download Originals to this Mac, Importing: Copy Items to the Photos Library (does this matter?)

 

[BBDDVV]

to narrow down if the problem is with the device you delete them, or with the iPhone: do the deleted pictures get removed (automatically) from the third device? Or stating it differently, what does icloud.com -> Deleted Photos show? The deleted photos still show up there as not deleted (as on your iPhone), or they show up in the Recently deleted folder as on the device you deleted them?

 

[karine]

to narrow down if the problem is with the device you delete them, or with the iPhone: do the deleted pictures get removed (automatically) from the third device? Or stating it differently, what does icloud.com -> Deleted Photos show? The deleted photos still show up there as not deleted (as on your iPhone), or they show up in the Recently deleted folder as on the device you deleted them?

Magically, now everything is OK.

Yesterday Recently deleted folder on the Iphone was empty.
But Iphone was totally out of space, so I had to delete some more photos and empty the Recently deleted folder.
Now Recently deleted folder on the Iphone contains the same photos as on all the other devices and on icloud.com. (Some of them are in the Recently deleted folder for 27 days, so why didn't I see them yesterday???)

So I suppose that the problem is on the Iphone, but now it disappeared.

Are there any guides to understand how photos synchronisation works? Does it remember the origin of each photo? What to do if I am copying an Iphone to a new one? Does Icloud assign old Iphone photos to the new one? Or does it double all the photos? Should I sign out from Icloud on the old one or can I use it from time to time, keeping it switched off? What will happen if I disable Icloud photos on the new Iphone? Will I lose all the photos taken on the old one? Why is my Macbook Photos app Downloading 8000 originals?

 

[BBDDVV]

Magically, now everything is OK.

Yesterday Recently deleted folder on the Iphone was empty.
But Iphone was totally out of space, so I had to delete some more photos and empty the Recently deleted folder.
Now Recently deleted folder on the Iphone contains the same photos as on all the other devices and on icloud.com. (Some of them are in the Recently deleted folder for 27 days, so why didn't I see them yesterday???)

So I suppose that the problem is on the Iphone, but now it disappeared.

Are there any guides to understand how photos synchronisation works? Does it remember the origin of each photo? What to do if I am copying an Iphone to a new one? Does Icloud assign old Iphone photos to the new one? Or does it double all the photos? Should I sign out from Icloud on the old one or can I use it from time to time, keeping it switched off? What will happen if I disable Icloud photos on the new Iphone? Will I lose all the photos taken on the old one? Why is my Macbook Photos app Downloading 8000 originals?

Oh, many questions, I hope get answered by themselves when understanding how it works
1. When iCloud Photos is ON, all photos (and videos) are uploaded to iCloud, regardless on what device they're taken/added to the Photos library.
1.1. I.e. you can take pictures on iPhone and iPad and they will all be visible on all devices in the same photo library.
1.2. All devices that have iCloud Photos ON just display all photos and videos that are present in iCloud
2. iCloud always stores the photos and videos in full resolution, including all edits you make to them, regardless on what device.
2.1. When you edit a photo on one device, this edit will automatically be visible on other devices as well.
3. On iPhone/iPad (not sure on Mac) you can safely use the setting Optimize iPhone/iPad storage (as opposed to Download and Keep originals). This drastically reduced the amount of storage photos and videos use on the device, without loosing anything:
3.1 When using Optimize, iOS will automatically, store a lower resolution version on the iPhone/iPad, yet still having it linked to the full resolution photo/video in iCloud. It is however transparent to the user, as when you e.g. zoom in or edit a photo that's stored locally in a lower resolution, it will automatically download the full resolution photo, to later change it back to a lower resolution photo if deemed necessary.
3.2 When you take a photo/video, of course the full resolution will be uploaded to iCloud and only after and when iOS determines is needs space, it will replace the locally stored photo/video with a lower resolution one. This way my wife has access to +200GB of photos in iCloud on here 64GB iPhone
4. When using a new iPhone/iPad/Mac, turning on iCloud Photos will automatically start displaying the photos stored in iCloud on the device.
4.1. You can use as many devices as you like, when a device has iCloud Photos ON, it'll just all show all photos/videos stored in iCloud.
5. When you turn OFF iCloud Photos on a device, it will ask you what you want to do with the photos on the device, keep them on that device or remove them from that device. This will NOT remove the photos from iCloud. I.e. all other device keep on showing all picture you have in iCloud, just this device will not.
5.1 When you choose to keep the photos on the local device, and later you decide to turn ON iCloud Photos again, the any new photos will be uploaded to iCloud, any photos that you have in iCloud but decided to delete while iCloud Photos was OFF, will re-download to the device.

Hopefully this helps

 

[Rider3]

Oh, many questions, I hope get answered by themselves when understanding how it works
1. When iCloud Photos is ON, all photos (and videos) are uploaded to iCloud, regardless on what device they're taken/added to the Photos library.
1.1. I.e. you can take pictures on iPhone and iPad and they will all be visible on all devices in the same photo library.
1.2. All devices that have iCloud Photos ON just display all photos and videos that are present in iCloud
2. iCloud always stores the photos and videos in full resolution, including all edits you make to them, regardless on what device.
2.1. When you edit a photo on one device, this edit will automatically be visible on other devices as well.
3. On iPhone/iPad (not sure on Mac) you can safely use the setting Optimize iPhone/iPad storage (as opposed to Download and Keep originals). This drastically reduced the amount of storage photos and videos use on the device, without loosing anything:
3.1 When using Optimize, iOS will automatically, store a lower resolution version on the iPhone/iPad, yet still having it linked to the full resolution photo/video in iCloud. It is however transparent to the user, as when you e.g. zoom in or edit a photo that's stored locally in a lower resolution, it will automatically download the full resolution photo, to later change it back to a lower resolution photo if deemed necessary.
3.2 When you take a photo/video, of course the full resolution will be uploaded to iCloud and only after and when iOS determines is needs space, it will replace the locally stored photo/video with a lower resolution one. This way my wife has access to +200GB of photos in iCloud on here 64GB iPhone
4. When using a new iPhone/iPad/Mac, turning on iCloud Photos will automatically start displaying the photos stored in iCloud on the device.
4.1. You can use as many devices as you like, when a device has iCloud Photos ON, it'll just all show all photos/videos stored in iCloud.
5. When you turn OFF iCloud Photos on a device, it will ask you what you want to do with the photos on the device, keep them on that device or remove them from that device. This will NOT remove the photos from iCloud. I.e. all other device keep on showing all picture you have in iCloud, just this device will not.
5.1 When you choose to keep the photos on the local device, and later you decide to turn ON iCloud Photos again, the any new photos will be uploaded to iCloud, any photos that you have in iCloud but decided to delete while iCloud Photos was OFF, will re-download to the device.

Hopefully this helps

Excellent! 👍

 

[Paddle1]

Magically, now everything is OK.

Yesterday Recently deleted folder on the Iphone was empty.
But Iphone was totally out of space, so I had to delete some more photos and empty the Recently deleted folder.
Now Recently deleted folder on the Iphone contains the same photos as on all the other devices and on icloud.com. (Some of them are in the Recently deleted folder for 27 days, so why didn't I see them yesterday???)

So I suppose that the problem is on the Iphone, but now it disappeared.

Are there any guides to understand how photos synchronisation works? Does it remember the origin of each photo? What to do if I am copying an Iphone to a new one? Does Icloud assign old Iphone photos to the new one? Or does it double all the photos? Should I sign out from Icloud on the old one or can I use it from time to time, keeping it switched off? What will happen if I disable Icloud photos on the new Iphone? Will I lose all the photos taken on the old one? Why is my Macbook Photos app Downloading 8000 originals?

I think when storage is full all syncing stops. This includes deleted photos both still in and outside of Recently Deleted. So to get it to automatically clear space based on other devices you have to clear some space yourself first.

In theory you could wait for Recently Deleted to clear itself, but that wasn't happening for me.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

I think when storage is full all syncing stops. This includes deleted photos both still in and outside of Recently Deleted. So to get it to automatically clear space based on other devices you have to clear some space yourself first.

In theory you could wait for Recently Deleted to clear itself, but that wasn't happening for me.

Yes, this. Cloud syncing requires additional, temporary device storage in order to work as designed (data is copied to temporary caches for both upload and download). In Settings > General > iPhone Storage this temporary storage is classified as either "Other" (pre-iOS 15) or "System Data" (iOS 15). System Data/Other is a catch-all that encompasses caches for many apps and purposes and will grow or shrink depending on how much data is being synced. It will be especially large when restoring from an iCloud backup/initially syncing during setup, since nearly every app and function on the device will be syncing/restoring at roughly the same time. As that initial syncing finishes the System Data category shrinks.

In day-to-day operation a low storage condition can prevent the syncing of new data.

Comparing libraries on various devices is not a particularly useful tool for judging what's going on - it will tell you that something is wrong, but doesn't give a hint as to the cause of the discrepancy. Fortunately, in the case of Photos, there's a better tool available.

In the Photos app, select Library and then scroll to the bottom of the image library (the most recent images). It will display the count of photos and videos in the local library and also the sync status, such as "Updated Just Now," or Uploading (or downloading) a certain number of images, or that the process has been paused because of inadequate on-device storage (or due to an out-of-cloud-storage condition), or until the device has been connected to Wi-Fi and/or power...

Once things grind to a halt you may need to clear a few gigs of local storage to get the log jam moving again. Generally the easiest/least harmful way to do this is to Offload (not Delete) apps. This is done at Settings > General > iPhone Storage. Offloading removes the app but leaves the data on the device. Once your syncing issue has been resolved you can reinstall the apps you use regularly, although it's always a good idea to have a minimum of 0.5 GB of Available storage. More, of course, is better, but if you happen to have a 16 GB iPhone... good luck with that!

 

[HDFan]

Once your syncing issue has been resolved you can reinstall the apps you use regularly, although it's always a good idea to have a minimum of 0.5 GB of Available storage.

Actually you should try to keep 20-30% free for best performance. Getting to that number is a bit difficult as IOS tends to fill things up so it is hard to see. Just keep your personal data (data files, music, etc.) + OS system files below that number.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Actually you should try to keep 20-30% free for best performance. Getting to that number is a bit difficult as IOS tends to fill things up so it is hard to see. Just keep your personal data (data files, music, etc.) + OS system files below that number.

I can't disagree that more is better, although as you noted, getting to that number is difficult in either iOS or macOS. That's especially true if you have relatively small internal storage, which I would consider 64 or 128 GB on Mac (64 GB was standard on the original MacBook Air), less than 32 GB on iOS.

I'll note that on iOS one cannot manage the "OS System Files," and recent versions of macOS keep the Library and System files in a read-only volume, so the real focus has to be apps and personal data.

When I said the minimum should be 0.5 GB, I really meant minimum. Below that, in my experience, everything grinds to a halt. Above that it is still usually possible to function.

The basic reality is that moving data to the cloud allows us to accumulate large amounts of personal data and still function with a relatively small amount of (still-expensive) on-device SSD/Flash storage. However, cloud syncing does require a certain amount of on-device overhead. In iOS the Other/System Data category encompasses the actively-used cloud sync overhead, but when there is temporary, heavy syncing activity (such as after enabling iCloud Photos or Messages in iCloud, or an erase/restore of the device) the demand on space can balloon. If, say, someone was out of iCloud storage for a while, thereby accumulating a pile of photos that could not be synced to iCloud, once that storage plan is finally upgraded it's possible that the data still won't sync due to low available storage on the iPhone. At that point it may be necessary to clear a few gigabytes of on-device storage to facilitate the upload activity.

 

[karine]

In the Photos app, select Library and then scroll to the bottom of the image library (the most recent images). It will display the count of photos and videos in the local library and also the sync status, such as "Updated Just Now," or Uploading

Sorry I have one more question. Right now, my Iphone says "Restoring from iCloud". What does it mean?

 

[HDFan]

The basic reality is that moving data to the cloud allows us to accumulate large amounts of personal data and still function with a relatively small amount of (still-expensive) on-device SSD/Flash storage.

Relying on Cloud storage to supplement device storage has one major problem: backups. A 3-2-1 backup strategy requires backups to physical storage so you can do things like put an off-site backup in a bank vault. If your Mac is your master it is easy to setup with an external device, not so easy with other Apple devices. In addition iCloud storage is not considered a backup due to the lack of versioning over 30 days.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Relying on Cloud storage to supplement device storage has one major problem: backups. A 3-2-1 backup strategy requires backups to physical storage so you can do things like put an off-site backup in a bank vault. If your Mac is your master it is easy to setup with an external device, not so easy with other Apple devices. In addition iCloud storage is not considered a backup due to the lack of versioning over 30 days.

Right, but I didn't call it "backup."

Data synced to iCloud is just that - data residing on a server. The server is the central data repository, any device connected to cloud storage is a client that can obtain a copy of the server-based data. The concept is nearly as old as the hills. In a client/server environment normally the operators of the server are responsible for data redundancy/backup (even though cloud service terms of service usually state that the server operator is not responsible for data loss).

3-2-1 backup strategies are typically used when the local device is the primary data store. Since a local device is not a particularly secure site for primary data storage... yeah, it's a good idea to send copies of that data off-site from time to time. Fire, flood, invasion, and all that. Yet the number of individuals and small businesses that actually do that is probably less than 0.321%. Cloud syncing and backup, however, are automated processes - no, "I'm too busy to go down to the bank vault." Considering all the bad things that happen to peoples personal electronic devices (smashed, drowned, lost, stolen, or just plain old logic board failure...) I'd wager the amount of data "saved" by being in in the imperfect cloud (whether on mail servers, in iCloud/Google Cloud, etc.) is far greater than that ever saved by consumer/small business-operated 3-2-1 strategies.

Yet Time Machine backups stored in the same location as my Mac have saved my skin more than once, simply because the odds of my home burning down are a lot lower (fortunately) than that of an HDD failure or other hardware breakdown. If my house does ever burn down there are a lot of material goods that I'll never be able to replace, but my cloud-synced data will likely be there waiting for me. And when it comes to the security of that off-site data from fire, flood, etc.? The data center is less likely to burn down than my house, it has backup generators, fire protection systems, RAID-like disk arrays, mirrors at other sites...

But in the end, Murphy's law will still prevail, one corollary of which is, "In a circuit protected by a fuse, the circuit will blow in order to protect the fuse." The cloud is not infallible, it's just a lot less fallible than the gear I can afford to have lying around the house.

If you look at some of Apple's support documents, you'll see that even Apple doesn't call iCloud a backup. When you "backup" an iOS device - whether via iCloud or to a computer - data already synced to iCloud is excluded from the "backup." Similarly, apps and media content obtained from Apple are not part of the "backup" as they can be redownloaded from iTunes/App Store/etc., and your IMAP/Exchange-based email accounts are restored from the mail servers. The once-a-day backup basically covers everything that is not otherwise obtainable from the cloud. When you erase/restore a device, setup a new device, etc., your system environment is reconstructed from a variety of sources. It's nothing at all like restoring from a disk image.

Now, it is possible to make true backups/archives of most iCloud data, although the methods aren't at all automated or simple to accomplish, as this Apple article will show: https://support.apple.com/HT204055. It's certainly not something most people would do on a regular basis. Should it be an easy, one-button process? Fans of 3-2-1 would certainly be happy, but even then the vast multitudes would never get around to doing it.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Sorry I have one more question. Right now, my Iphone says "Restoring from iCloud". What does it mean?

Is it saying that in the Photos app, or in Settings > iCloud > iCloud Backup? And for how long has it been saying that?

 

[karine]

Is it saying that in the Photos app, or in Settings > iCloud > iCloud Backup? And for how long has it been saying that?

It is saying in the Photos app on my Iphone. Moreover it shows -1 days before deletion for some videos in the Recently Deleted folder.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

It is saying in the Photos app on my Iphone. Moreover it shows -1 days before deletion for some videos in the Recently Deleted folder.

One thing I haven't asked is whether you have a reasonable amount of storage available in iCloud.

Assuming you have available iCloud storage then it's worth continuing to work on the available storage on the iPhone. If you're out of iCloud storage, that's the situation to address.

However, it may also be worthwhile to have Apple tech support look at the situation.

 

[karine]

One thing I haven't asked is whether you have a reasonable amount of storage available in iCloud.

Assuming you have available iCloud storage then it's worth continuing to work on the available storage on the iPhone. If you're out of iCloud storage, that's the situation to address.

However, it may also be worthwhile to have Apple tech support look at the situation.

Thank You for your support.
I have enough iCloud storage.
So now I am erasing tons of videos, copying them to my laptop via my pqi usb-lightning flash drive. Hope soon I will have enough space on my iPhone.

 

[cynics]

Magically, now everything is OK.

Yesterday Recently deleted folder on the Iphone was empty.
But Iphone was totally out of space, so I had to delete some more photos and empty the Recently deleted folder.
Now Recently deleted folder on the Iphone contains the same photos as on all the other devices and on icloud.com. (Some of them are in the Recently deleted folder for 27 days, so why didn't I see them yesterday???)

So I suppose that the problem is on the Iphone, but now it disappeared.

Are there any guides to understand how photos synchronisation works?

Yes, it easy to overthink this though...

Set up and use iCloud Photos - Apple Support

iCloud Photos works with the Photos app to keep your photos and videos securely stored in iCloud, and up to date on your iPhone, iPad, Mac, Apple Vision Pro, Apple TV, and iCloud.com.

support.apple.com

Does it remember the origin of each photo?

Yes. The metadata, EXIF specially will retain the camera details.

What to do if I am copying an Iphone to a new one?

You don't, iCloud Photos sync's with a new device. So you sign into a new device with your AppleID and turn on iCloud Photos in the Photo settings. Download original will download all the Photos, optimize storage will display a lower res version in its thumbnail form that quickly downloads the full res version when you tap on it.

Does Icloud assign old Iphone photos to the new one?

It syncs to the existing iCloud Photos library from iCloud.

Or does it double all the photos?

Again, this is sync'd. Looking at an iCloud Photo library on two different devices is looking at the exact same photo.

Should I sign out from Icloud on the old one or can I use it from time to time, keeping it switched off?

Leave it turned on, it doesn't really matter. However just make sure you have control of the device. If you (or someone else) deletes a photo from a device that has iCloud Photos turned on will delete that photo from all the devices. Again its the same photo viewed from a different device.

What will happen if I disable Icloud photos on the new Iphone?

Nothing. It will just stop syncing with the iCloud Photos.

Will I lose all the photos taken on the old one?

No.

Why is my Macbook Photos app Downloading 8000 originals?

God knows!

.....

This is actually really easy but I totally get why its tough to get a handle on.

With iCloud Photos turned on your actual photo library is at...

www.icloud.com/photos

Click that link, preferably on a computer. When you take a photo on a device with iCloud Photos turn on the original is uploaded there. From there its seeded to your other devices with iCloud Photos turned on. That version is the original even if its edited it contains the original photo, bit for bit copy.

If you edit a photo on any device it will be edited there and then seeded to all your devices. If you delete a photo it will be deleted from all your devices. iCloud Photos is just identically mirroring that web address essentially.

So this is video I made real quick, the left side is Photos app on a Mac, the right side is Safari with iCloud.com/photos opened. I edit the photo in app on the left and its syncs to iCloud on the right. From there that photo is syncing to all my other iCloud Photos devices.

Thank You for your support.
I have enough iCloud storage.
So now I am erasing tons of videos, copying them to my laptop via my pqi usb-lightning flash drive. Hope soon I will have enough space on my iPhone.

If you have enough iCloud storage then turn on "Optimize iPhone Storage". This will reduce the storage your iCloud Photos library uses on your device. Unless you require offline access to your entire photo library there is little reason to "Download Originals". Just clicking on a photo in your photo library will make it the original...this function is virtually invisible to the user while using a 2-5% of the original storage space.