NT1440
macrumors P6
So WTF was your point then? 😕
You laid this at the feet of "Apple fans" then just conceded the ENTIRE consumer market is modeled like this.
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Some 2011 MacBook Pros Experiencing GPU Glitches, System Crashes
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So WTF was your point then? 😕
You laid this at the feet of "Apple fans" then just conceded the ENTIRE consumer market is modeled like this.
brdeveloper
macrumors 68030
There is a Lenovo, if I'm not wrong, which has a 750M built-in and another slot-loadable. Theoretically you can put a better one later as Lenovo upgrade its spec.
Apple is the leader in the consumer market.
How many Ultrabooks have you taken apart? Aren't most of them just Apple copies?
Apple sets the standards for the consumer market and other companies follow.
Apple decides to solder the RAM on the motherboard , other companies follow.
Apple decides to have non-removable batteries , other companies follow.
etc...
Max(IT)
Suspended
thekev
macrumors 604
Congratulations on the dumbest comment of the week.
In terms of generations of major hardware components, not much has changed outside of screens. SSDs were available and in widespread use in 2011. We had basically one generation of graphics upgrades, as the 750m represents a rebadged version of the chip used in the 650m. Even for those who upgraded, what makes you think they didn't pass on the original notebooks to their kids? Two years ago the 6770m version was still on sale as the current model. Refurbished units were still available a year after that. The performance difference isn't even much unless you're absolutely pushing it to the limits of the hardware, in which case you would probably need more than just a notebook anyway.
NT1440
macrumors P6
Yes. So again, how is this "Apple Fans" when what you are really talking about is a flaw in the market itself.
In your world Apple is supposed to control the market? What happened to the myth of "competition" and the "free hand of the market?"
I think you know where I'm going with this. 😉
Just understand that consumers themselves don't move markets, if that were the case we'd all be driving cars that get 50+ mpg because no one wants to pay for gas but the market is set up this way against consumers will.
Renzatic
Suspended
Most consumers apparently can't fit a round peg into a round hole. Upgrading computer components is hardly rocket science.
kockgunner
macrumors 68000
I had the 2008 MBP with 8600 GT replaced mostly for graphics issues. AppleCare gave me a 2010 MBP with 330 GT which started displaying a random black screen after Lion. Thankfully Apple replaced out of warranty, and after 2 logicboards, now it's fine.
Talk to some random person on the street about upgrading computers and see how far the conversation goes.
teknikal90
macrumors 68040
i bought the computer december 2011.
just over 2 years ago.
it has a quad core processor, 8gb of ram and SSD
over 10,000 geekbench score
current macbook pros are around 12,000
NO reason for me to 'upgrade'.
NT1440
macrumors P6
But does any advertising make it apparent?
Every time I see a commercial for working on computers there is an image of boogeyman viruses and "the trash heap".
We've set up a model where a product is to be a black box that the user can understand, but is told that its too complicated and risky, better bring it to the leech service market.
This is coming from a former GeekSquad worker. Everyone and their mother is terrified of even the most obviously predatory advertisement.
Renzatic
Suspended
Ask some random person on the street how to change a timing belt, and see what they say. Does that mean we should weld the hoods on cars shut?
My 2011 MBP has been freezing up and losing network connectivity a lot lately, as well as getting hotter than I'd like particularly when running anything graphics-heavy.
Still under AppleCare for a few more months, so I might try heading down to the Apple store now I have one within two hours. Or replace the thermal paste: from the photo earlier, it looks as if it was put on with a shovel, so that might help too...
Still under AppleCare for a few more months, so I might try heading down to the Apple store now I have one within two hours. Or replace the thermal paste: from the photo earlier, it looks as if it was put on with a shovel, so that might help too...
Most people pay an auto mechanic to do basic things for them. It's not like most people are willing to learn.
At Best Buy and other places , people pay other people to upgrade their computer. Of course somethings are simple to do but people aren't willing to learn about it instead they just think it's a big deal.
This post summarizes what I mean.
MagnusVonMagnum
macrumors 603
It seems Apple just can't manage to get reliable 3rd party GPU parts, although it's odd thing cropped up 3 years later (the 2008 Nvidia GPU was known pretty quickly the same year to be defective, I believe). The worst thing is how BAD it makes Apple look when they charge so damn much for their notebooks compared to typical PC models. You expect top-notch quality for your dollar, but you just don't get it, IMO. There was the yellow-screen LED thing, keyboard input glitch and NVidia 8600M GT issues when I got my 2008 model (I was fortunate not to have any of those issues except a few keyboard glitches, but that was fixed in an update, but others weren't so lucky; I remember the yellow screen thing was rampant when I first got it and then the NVidia story cracked open shortly thereafter). And if you get a bad battery issue on the newer Macbooks, it's no simple drop-in replacement fix like it used to be.
Yes, they have a pretty solid-piece aluminum chassis, but that doesn't make what's inside of it quality. Apple needs to do it better or start lowering their prices. It's the main reason why I think they should not be able to tie the OS to the hardware. The users who simply want to use OSX because of the superior experience to Windows are forced to buy Apple hardware for better or worse (unless you want to do Hackintosh). I just don't like an operating system being tied to hardware as you are completely dependent on Apple to do things right and sell for reasonable prices and the two don't always mix.
In any case, maybe Apple is right to spur Intel into getting their built-in GPUs up to par over the next few years as they're clearly better made, even if slower still (although catching up quickly, relatively speaking compared to years past). I guess I've been fortunate with my 2008 Macbook Pro, though. It never failed or showed any signs of issues. One could argue it still could, but the thing is getting closer to end of service all the time (I still plan to use it for Logic Pro even if Apple stops supporting it with OSX upgrades in the future; it's still great for that since even the previous version of Logic is awesome).
Renzatic
Suspended
There's the impression, and the actual reality of it.
Yeah, people are scared of computers. Pointlessly so, but they are. Though as you're well aware, on a machine designed to be upgraded, slapping in a new HDD or ram stick is roughly as easy as pie. Knowing how to unscrew a screw, and possessing a basic understanding of levers is usually all it takes.
And batteries? They're even easier. You press a button, the old one slides out, and you slide the new one in until you hear a click.
Think about what Apple has done. Since most people are scared of computers , Apple has solved the problem for them. Now the people just have to pay Apple instead now. They don't have to worry about using a screw driver or learning how things go inside slots. Apple is also saving money by making thing not replaceable by the end user (stuff like soldering RAM is cheaper than having separate modules).
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NT1440
macrumors P6
Right?
I've been using my 2009 MBP for nearly 5 years now. I fix computers for people amongst other things. While I'd LOVE a retina screen and my computer is just starting to feel a bit slow (albeit perfectly functional) I don't have the funds to get a new one so I'm waiting another year or two until I can get a retina macbook air.
The reason why I did so much research into buying my first mac was exactly this scenario. I knew with the basic maintenance I'd have no issues with my computer for 5-6 years. Now in my personal experience these things run forever unless there is a component defect such as the GPUs that were used across the industry 7-8 years ago, but everything else works beautifully.
I can't say the same for the 2 Toshibas, 2 Asus, 1 Dell, and 1 HP that has come through the family since I purchased my Mac.
And to discount the theory that I'm "an above average user in terms of maintenance" the only thing I've done to my sisters identical mac in all these years is blow the dust out twice, and popped a bit more RAM in.
These things really are designed to last. It's a shame to see the 2011s are failing, but I see that as a component issue, luckily Apple has been driving the industry to using much more efficient GPUs in terms of both energy and heat. I think these 2011 unit's are what I'd classify as the growing pains of the industry at whole.
Renzatic
Suspended
Max(IT)
Suspended
Are you serious ? It still is an hell of a computer ...
Mine with an SSD , is not worthing any upgrade.
People are just scared of things like computers. Geek Squad and other similar groups , companies ,etc. are doing well because of that.
I've seen some ridiculous things in my lifetime.
NT1440
macrumors P6
When we decided that everything in America from fixing a doorknob to caring for your own lawn should be contracted out. 😉
The rise of the service industry tracks pretty well with the loss of even basic skills and troubleshooting in America. You don't need to know anything because if you hand a few dollars over, the "professionals" with all their training can "get it done right" for you.
Though I will take issue with "geeksquad" doing ok. I was there long enough to see that they are running themselves into the ground with a big uptick in service, but not in staffing or training. BestBuy is collapsing from the inside because of no vision for a future in their model, and the immediate results that Wall Street demands.
brdeveloper
macrumors 68030
Why regular consumers use laptops these days? Sometimes I think people underrate consumers too much. If they were so dumb as most people argue, they should only use tablets as "they don't know how to do anything more productive or geeker".
Anyone would was child or teen in the eighties is capable of exchanging RAM modules. It's practically the same thing he did with his Nintendo, Genesis or Atari 8-bit when changed cartridges. In the past we were even able to upgrade laptop processors. Then, with the excuse that processor slots were too big, they replaced them with bga-soldered ones that fail as heating damages the solders. Now we have soldered RAM and probably soldered flash storage in the near future.
It's not the user that is a tech illiterate, but the companies that are using this as a false argument to promote programmed obsolescence.
Ronnoco
macrumors 68030
I had a mid 2010 for three years that had this problem. AppleCare replaced the logic board early on and it never acted up again...I am quite surprised that Apple won't fix it even after warrantee as I had them replace a defective battery well after the AppleCare ran out...took a few calls to Apple Customer Relations, as the store initially said no "they don't replace batteries after the 1st year", but ACR overrode them and they replaced the battery with a brand new one.
Try calling Apple Customer Relations. I have found them very helpful in these types of situations and they can override the Genius or even the store General Manager.