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Some Apple Engineers Rewarded Up to $180K in Stock Bonuses as Incentive to Stay

citysnaps said:
That wasn't my or co-workers experience at a few SV companies over the years.

Perhaps you can provide a citation from a credible source to back up your assertions?
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You think any of the companies that have pulled that crap would allow the sort of public relations nightmares that would result from that info getting leaked. You gotta just go look on GlassDoor for that - and even then, if any of the companies that have done this get wind of reviews like that, they yank them, or threaten the poor SOBs who posted them with defamation suits.

It's just like any other industry that has awful secrets, but nobody will go public with them in a large way, because it would spell the end of their career in software.
 
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Bokito said:
For me it’s not about making money. A good paycheck is important, but I’ve reached a level where my life won’t improve much with a bigger paycheck.
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I've hired engineers in the Bay Area and this is actually common among the seniors I met. As long as the cash compensation is above a certain level, the most important thing becomes working on interesting problems.

Also, the cash portion of compensation often maxes out $150-200k a year. The rest comes in the form of ISOs, RSUs, and cash bonuses. This is actually the salary policy at one of the major cloud providers: everyone maxes out salary in this range, including the executives, and the bulk is in equity that vests over time.

Since some commenters don't appear to be familiar with vesting schedules: the standard vesting schedule in SV is 4 years with a 1 year cliff, which means you get 25% after one year then the balance vests monthly for the remainder. Some big companies have tried to push to 5 years, though I'm not sure how well that would work in the current market. Crypto companies seem to be headed in the opposite direction: 3 years with a 6 month cliff.
 
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DanteHicks79 said:
You think any of the companies that have pulled that crap would allow the sort of public relations nightmares that would result from that info getting leaked. You gotta just go look on GlassDoor for that - and even then, if any of the companies that have done this get wind of reviews like that, they yank them, or threaten the poor SOBs who posted them with defamation suits.
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Nope. Not a credible source. Noise.

Also...you may not be aware stock options vest incrementally over time. 25% 1st year, 50% 2nd year, 75% 3rd year, 100% 4th year.

"...or threaten the poor SOBs who posted them with defamation suits."

Do you have a credible source for that, as well?

Have you worked in SV? How long, doing what?
 
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citysnaps said:
Nope. Not a credible source. Noise.

Also...you may not be aware stock options vest incrementally over time. 25% 1st year, 50% 2nd year, 75% 3rd year, 100% 4th year.

"...or threaten the poor SOBs who posted them with defamation suits."

Do you have a credible source for that, as well?

Have you worked in SV? How long, doing what?
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20 years. Various video game studios, a couple startups, and two telecom companies. I'm not dropping names, because I'm not an idiot.
 
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What is this facebook?
Why would their talent leave and to where? No one is going to pay higher, and no other company more stable.
 
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cmaier said:
Key hardware engineers in Silicon Valley can earn more than 100% of their salary in bonuses and stock (and stock-like) grants. In fact, in some cases more than 300% above their salary. Not sure if the employees we are talking about here are hardware or software engineers.
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Keep in mind these folks are already receiving such bonuses. This is an addition on top of what they're already receiving. There are quite a few that see yearly compensation packages in-excess of $500k.
 
citysnaps said:
Also...you may not be aware stock options vest incrementally over time. 25% 1st year, 50% 2nd year, 75% 3rd year, 100% 4th year.
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Yep, the one-four schedule has been the standard in SV for a very long time. You can do a google search for "silicon valley vesting schedule" and you will see many, many references to it, including relevant laws from 1968 that set a minimum pace for vesting.

Giving equity to the engineers started with the Traitorous Eight and it was considered one of the biggest differences between West Coast and East Coast companies. If you're interested (and really, every technologist should know about the Traitorous Eight), this looks like a pretty good history: https://www.secfi.com/equity-academy/the-history-of-employee-stock-options
 
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It is happening all over at tech companies. I have relatives that are engineers and more regular tech companies and got $75K bonuses and more importantly, $40-75K out-of-cycle raises. Being a well-respected engineer or manager is very lucrative at tech companies.
 
mrothroc said:
Yep, the one-four schedule has been the standard in SV for a very long time. You can do a google search for "silicon valley vesting schedule" and you will see many, many references to it, including relevant laws from 1968 that set a minimum pace for vesting.

Giving equity to the engineers started with the Traitorous Eight and it was considered one of the biggest differences between West Coast and East Coast companies. If you're interested (and really, every technologist should know about the Traitorous Eight), this looks like a pretty good history: https://www.secfi.com/equity-academy/the-history-of-employee-stock-options
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When I worked at MSFT they called year 4 "Spring Break". That is when people left the company right after vesting their first big set of options.
 
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JPack said:
No surprise, with so many engineers leaving the Apple Car project, they’ll be lucky to introduce a set of wheels by the end of the decade if they don’t stop the exodus.
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Apple probably offered those engineers a huge bonus if they could get a successful, working, bug free, car out the door. Seeing the writing on the wall, they just quit instead.
 
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adamjackson said:
To a lot of people, that is a lot of money. I'm surprised to see how insignificant it is to people here. For 180K, I'd take a couple of years off work and go on a sabbatical and travel the world.

I recognize these are RSUs but I mean to people talking about 180K being nothing or not much. We have household incomes in my state that are around 45-50K a year as the average. That's a family of 4 paying their bills and getting by at 50K. their cars are 10 years old and they're not saving much for retirement but if you told them they'd have to work somewhere for 4 years for 200K a year + 180K after 4 years, you'd be changing lives.
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Yeah sure, but it is only meaningful as an incentive compared to your peers, which in this case are engineers working for similar companies. Are you aware that the 45-50K a year average that you quoted places those people in the top 5% or 10% richest people in the world? The vast majority of people in the world are so horrendously poor that even getting enough to eat is a struggle, and the idea of earning as much wealth as 50K would be bordering on obscene to them.
 
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DanteHicks79 said:
Here's the insidious thing about these kinds of "bonuses:"

They take four years to vest. In that time, Apple can (and 100% will) dump any/all of those devs before those stock options are available, then work hard to attract younger engineers (who will accept smaller salaries than their predecessors for the boasting rights of working for the fruit) - and the stock options offered this year to all the engineers they 86 will become worthless, because they're contingent upon still being employed by Apple.

Every SV company does this: they dangle enticing fortunes in front of the grunts, with no intention of actually ever paying out. It looks festive and generous in the PR release, but in 3 and a half years, after everybody's forgotten about this, Apple will cut the cord on every single last one of them, and welch on the bonus stocks.
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Nope. It is so expensive to recruit, hire, and train people it is the way you do business. To these companies, people are the most valuable assets. These are retention bonuses to prevent good people from looking elsewhere. These bonuses will be paid in the next few weeks and months.

Any company that did not pay a promised bonus would get a black mark and few would want to work there. Especially in the Valley where you can turn right instead of left driving to work and get a new job for more money or a ton of options.
 
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BeanieMan said:
TBH these are small numbers. Look at levels.fyi to see what eng comp looks like. Typical stock comp is like 50k to 250k+ per year, depending on level, and that's on top of base of like 140-250+. I'm very surprised that 180k is enough to retain anyone. A new hire stock grant at someplace like Meta is easily 4x that. (Sr+ levels)
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That's at startups. At well-established companies? No.
 
sideshowuniqueuser said:
Yeah sure, but it is only meaningful as an incentive compared to your peers, which in this case are engineers working for similar companies. Are you aware that the 45-50K a year average that you quoted places those people in the top 5% or 10% richest people in the world? The vast majority of people in the world are so horrendously poor that even getting enough to eat is a struggle, and the idea of earning as much wealth as 50K would be bordering on obscene to them.
Click to expand...

I really don't get involved with the 'first world problems' mantra as a defense or explanation. What I mean is, $50,000 USD a year is a lot of money to the majority of humans alive globally even in developed nations but if you take all 7-8 billion people in the world and place $50K salary on a chart of annual income it's quite high but I'm in Northern NH on the Vermont border and 50K is enough to get by but it's not a lot here. My house was $94,000 USD. Most people pay about $150K for a home, $35K for a car and then there's living expenses. Biggest extra cost here is heat where some houses pay about $800 a month in the winter to heat their home. I know it's all relative but in our area (like nearly every other rural part of USA), we're seeing a huge influx of tech workers and I honestly had no idea what they were making. My neighbor overpaid by about 100% for his house. He works at Amazon in Boston. This is his weekend house. It's the same as mine, he paid double what I paid but he wanted a lake house in NH near a ski hill so he bought it. to think he makes 4X the normal house hold income here is fine. good for him but it does disrupt our local economy and has that spiraling effect that we're all dealing with where that family making 50K a year now has to buy fuel for their home, groceries, electricity and property taxes that are now increasing more than standard inflation because of the influx of people who are making way more than 50K a year. The propane delivery driver is surrounded by Amazon employees' 2nd homes and when they make improvements, his property taxes go up. There are huge impacts to our 'first world problems' when the technology bubbles that used to be limited to 10 cities because remote work wasn't a thing en masse are now bleeding out 150 miles from the city and Boston amazon salaries are suddenly northern New Hampshire salaries and it's a huge disruption. It's happening in every state that isn't Florida, California, New York, Washington, Massachusetts or Texas.
 
Kazgarth said:
Oculus Quest 2 is the top selling gaming hardware on Amazon this holiday, beating the Nintendo Switch and all other gaming consoles.

Amazon Best Sellers: Best Video Games

View the best video games in Amazon Best Sellers. Browse the 100 top video games to identify the most popular games. Get useful information on what other people are buying.
www.amazon.com

Quest App is also the most downloaded app on the App store this holiday.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/roejrp

d7qqi5fjvr781.png



VR not dead, its is exploding in popularity.
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What part of "nobody uses VR" do people not understand?

VR is deader than dead. It will always be useless, and nothing Facebook or Apple does will cause people to not throw it away after a few days.
 
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sideshowuniqueuser said:
To quote yourself in the Apple Maps "gift" article:

"Woo! This is a nice gift. It’s the little things that matter."

This is where critical thinking ahead unwavering positivity has its place. If you always try to talk up a t*rd, people lose respect for your "positivity". Balance.
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Well, the article was posted way before the posted bonus salary. Still going to stand behind my statement. Nothing has changed.

It’s indeed the little things that count. That 180K bonus for the engineers is also little.

I was also trying to make Apple Maps team happy.
 
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mrothroc said:
Yep, the one-four schedule has been the standard in SV for a very long time. You can do a google search for "silicon valley vesting schedule" and you will see many, many references to it, including relevant laws from 1968 that set a minimum pace for vesting.

Giving equity to the engineers started with the Traitorous Eight and it was considered one of the biggest differences between West Coast and East Coast companies. If you're interested (and really, every technologist should know about the Traitorous Eight), this looks like a pretty good history: https://www.secfi.com/equity-academy/the-history-of-employee-stock-options
Click to expand...
Cool read, thanks for sharing.
 
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DanteHicks79 said:
Here's the insidious thing about these kinds of "bonuses:"

They take four years to vest. In that time, Apple can (and 100% will) dump any/all of those devs before those stock options are available, then work hard to attract younger engineers (who will accept smaller salaries than their predecessors for the boasting rights of working for the fruit) - and the stock options offered this year to all the engineers they 86 will become worthless, because they're contingent upon still being employed by Apple.

Every SV company does this: they dangle enticing fortunes in front of the grunts, with no intention of actually ever paying out. It looks festive and generous in the PR release, but in 3 and a half years, after everybody's forgotten about this, Apple will cut the cord on every single last one of them, and welch on the bonus stocks.
Click to expand...
These are RSUs, not options. If they leave or get fired early, they only miss out on what hasn't been vested yet, and they vest in equal chunks once a year or something like that. Anyway, Apple probably wants these engineers.

When you say every SV company does this, it's probably only the smaller or less reputable ones. These big tech companies (I work for one of them, not Apple though) don't play these games and especially don't like to fire people. If they want to scam their employees, they'll do it in a much more subtle way.
 
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BeanieMan said:
TBH these are small numbers. Look at levels.fyi to see what eng comp looks like. Typical stock comp is like 50k to 250k+ per year, depending on level, and that's on top of base of like 140-250+. I'm very surprised that 180k is enough to retain anyone. A new hire stock grant at someplace like Meta is easily 4x that. (Sr+ levels)
Click to expand...
I'm guessing these RSUs vest over 4 years, so someone receiving the $180K bonus essentially got a $45K/year raise since Apple won't want comp to decrease afterwards (or else people flee). Idk what TC is for these people; probably like a 10% raise for whoever is getting the $180K bonus. These companies normally give periodic raises for market adjustment in the same ballpark, but this is on top of that and pretty big for something they didn't see coming.
 
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