Just as a neutral observer, I would certainly value Apple RSUs higher than Meta.
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Some Apple Engineers Rewarded Up to $180K in Stock Bonuses as Incentive to Stay
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Do the houses in the area you work in run around $2,800,000 on average?
Tech is not limited to the Bay Area anymore. Your argument is limited to your area. I lived in San Francisco for 5 years. I get the argument but my neighbors work for Amazon and they pay the same property taxes as my other neighbor who drives a propane truck for a living. Remote work has changed the game and $180K in RSU to a family in New Hampshire is huge no matter who they work for.
Attrition isn't high among experienced engineers. Every senior and principal engineer in my circle isn't going anywhere; not unless the new RSU grant is seven figures.
I'm not leaving where I am, that's for sure.
It's amazing to think the stock options everyone in SV takes for granted today originally came because of those eight engineers.
Indeed, but if it vests over 4 years, they're a form of golden handcuffs along with any other RSUs that vest over time they may have received.
I live and work in Silicon Valley myself and although a sudden $80K to $180K worth of RSUs that vest over the time would be really nice, $180K isn't exactly huge money to take a few years off to go on sabbatical and travel the world here. Have you seen the crazy costs of housing here? See https://www.ktvu.com/news/how-much-does-it-take-to-buy-a-house-in-the-bay-area. Some places that are on the "cheaper" side have really bad crime (e.g. Bayview District, Tenderloin, some of Oakland, Richmond, East Palo Alto).
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/19/this-fire-charred-silicon-valley-home-just-sold-for-1-million.html isn't exactly Silicon Valley. It is too far away for many folks, esp. to commute to say Santa Clara County but that might give you some idea of the craziness.
Unlivable, tear-down shack sells for nearly $2 million in San Francisco
Rickety stairs with an equally dilapidated porch and overgrown backyard. Yes, that just sold for nearly $2 million in Potrero Hill.
We also have state income tax: https://www.bankrate.com/taxes/california-state-taxes.
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Like I said earlier, I’m in the technology sector And lived in San Francisco city for 5 years. I know the costs there And taxes. My point is $180K to an American family living in the other 90% of USA that doesn’t have million dollar homes would consider that a life changing amount of money. Here in northern New England, we’re inundated with folks from cities moving here and doing their jobs remotely. Moving from NYC to Vermont on their $180K RSUs and $200K a year salary is basically a 60% pay raise. It’s not an insignificant amount of money when tech employees can live in Idaho or Colorado or Vermont.Indeed, but if it vests over 4 years, they're a form of golden handcuffs along with any other RSUs that vest over time they may have received.
I live and work in Silicon Valley myself and although a sudden $80K to $180K worth of RSUs that vest over the time would be really nice, $180K isn't exactly huge money to take a few years off to go on sabbatical and travel the world here. Have you seen the crazy costs of housing here? See https://www.ktvu.com/news/how-much-does-it-take-to-buy-a-house-in-the-bay-area. Some places that are on the "cheaper" side have really bad crime.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/19/this-fire-charred-silicon-valley-home-just-sold-for-1-million.html isn't exactly Silicon Valley. It is too far away for many folks, esp. to commute to say Santa Clara County but that might give you some idea of the craziness.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/ot...han-dollar800000-over-asking-price/vi-AAS2PdL - I can't speak to that neighborhood but it is a pretty central and good location for access to tech companies, including Apple.Unlivable, tear-down shack sells for nearly $2 million in San Francisco
Rickety stairs with an equally dilapidated porch and overgrown backyard. Yes, that just sold for nearly $2 million in Potrero Hill.abc7news.com
We also have state income tax: https://www.bankrate.com/taxes/california-state-taxes.
Bingo, I bet a lot of the recipients are about to finish their 4 year sign-on package and are looking at a drop off on year 5 and onwards.
I'm "only" Sr eng at one such "well-established" company, and I've seen enough packages from other companies (Twitter, Nvidia, Google, FB, etc) to know that these numbers are underwhelming for retention bonuses, and that the figures at levels.fyi are accurate. It is very surprising to me that these 4-yr vest stock bonuses are enough to retain anyone. They're not even on par with the yearly stock refreshes that have become standard at these tech companies. Sure a bit extra money is nice, but a Sr eng can get something like 180k base + 20% target bonus + 700k stock/4yrs, plus raises and the yearly stock refreshers (in growing amounts starting at 700k/4 assuming career growth), plus a sign on bonus (which can be >100k at e.g. Meta, though that's atypical). (Admittedly this estimate is somewhat upper-band, but not excessively so, and certainly low for staff+.) Basically, especially for someone coming up to the end of their first stock grant (i.e. near 4yrs of tenure for the initial large grant), switching companies is highly incentivized. To put a number on that incentive, it's definitely several hundred thousands, well above 180k.
I'm sure this is a factor actually, and it also sounds like Apple is offering these bonuses without requiring a counteroffer in hand. Most engineers at big tech companies don't have actual need for more comp, so if they are borderline to happy in their current role, a bit of unexpected bonus can go a long way towards building loyalty in employees.But meta is crowned as the worst company of the year.
Facebook Crowned 'Worst Company of 2021' by New Survey
Facebook, otherwise known as Meta, has been crowned the worst company of the year, following a turbulent 12 months of controversies, public backlash,...www.macrumors.com
Btw, they usually pay less for remote work depending on where you live. Can be like a 20% difference, though you can move somewhere with lower taxes and half the living cost, so you still end up with way more disposable income.
Speaking of taxes, the $180K bonus really is less money to people with high income because it's taxed more.
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Idk about MSFT, but some companies are changing that as of very recently. I've been at my current job for 3 years, and I started before they changed it, so I'm looking at the year-4 comp drop and will probably quit if/when it arrives.
I can tell you from personal experience that this is not true and hasn't been true for the past five years. The job market has escalated quickly so your data point might be out of date. The only "major cloud provider" that has this policy is Amazon which caps base pay at $160K with the exception of HCOL markets (SF, NYC, etc) which have been bumped to $190K but only recently. Some recent hire software engineers at the other big tech companies are blowing past $200K base salary at 5 YOE now (in addition to $1.2M RSU grant and $100K sign on bonus). Netflix pays all cash salaries and the offers are at $500K - $700K.
Apple has been underpaying employees especially engineers, and traditionally, many were there because they wanted to change the world.
But since Apple is now one of the tech giants and most certainly not going to change anything of significance, they're just not paying as well as Google and so on, nor do they have really good hiring programs running.
Given Apple's profits, every engineer there should make 300k+ at least. That's how you keep good people. Pay them well.
But since Apple is now one of the tech giants and most certainly not going to change anything of significance, they're just not paying as well as Google and so on, nor do they have really good hiring programs running.
Given Apple's profits, every engineer there should make 300k+ at least. That's how you keep good people. Pay them well.
You have to compare apples to apples.
Matching their IQ, education, skills, work experience in STEM fields, the bonus compensation is not that much by Vally standards. Some start up employees get millions after an IPO or tens of millions after an acquisition.
its an employee advantage market these days - for help signs everywhere with some sort of elevated compensation
must be nice to get offered 100k+ of aapl stock incentive
must be nice to get offered 100k+ of aapl stock incentive
It’s called the real world. The one where money rules.
Tim Cook got what he wanted, a Prop'd-Up AAPL stock.
Now, he has to suffer the consequences, the challenge of recruiting Newbies & keeping Employees with vested stock options !
And, it's NOT a small challenge !
Now, he has to suffer the consequences, the challenge of recruiting Newbies & keeping Employees with vested stock options !
And, it's NOT a small challenge !
So basically what any company has to deal with - managing the demands and egos of its employees?
Ridiculous. Apple giving big rewards to bozos who cannot design anything but bugs and crap. They should show most of them the door, ten lock it behind them when they are pushed out.