Some Apple Park Employees Said to Be Dissatisfied With Open Office Design

[Escher2112]

This. You can tell the posters who've never had a job that requires concentration.

Or the ones who don't mind being treated like just another cog in a machine.

Nailed it..

My company went from 6 foot tall cube walls and lots of personal space to 2 foot cube walls and an "open" floor plan about 4 years ago when we moved to a new building.

I am a CAE / Senior design engineer - and I sit in an area with the CAD group - we also have the lights off in our area - but lots of natural light from windows all around.

Here is what will happen - everyone will get headphones - big over the ear types - and some will leave. I would leave in a completely open office environment. If it weren't for how much I love what I do, I would probably go - but I just put on the headphones and rock out - LOUDLY!

What so many posters here aren't recognizing is that 1) not every worker is the same personality type and 2) Some folks just don't do well in collaborative environments. I work with some of the most gifted and amazing minds I've ever met - but some are so math/science focused that they barely can hold a conversation (think autistic spectrum). Now - should these folks be driven out and their talents lost just because of a "corporate decision"? I think not.

Personally - I can't stand it when an "impromptu" meeting springs up at the desk next to me and 4 or five engineers are all hovering just next to my cube - I can't stand it... its soul sucking madness that kills my ability to think clearly. I have my collaborative times too - but *my* desk is personal space, and if you aren't invited, then leave and let me do my job. Luckily we are moving toward working from home a day or two a week and I am taking advantage of that.

Looking at the apple campus - I had originally thought how amazing it would be to work there... Now - I think it would be hell. Completely open and all glass with no personal space... nope...

 

[thekeyring]

Yeah.... 6+ years ago. I don’t know why you’re pointing it out since everybody on this forum knows that.

Then why are they posting comments assuming this is "new Apple's" fault?

 

[BaldiMac]

What so many posters here aren't recognizing is that 1) not every worker is the same personality type and 2) Some folks just don't do well in collaborative environments.

The other thing that posters here aren't recognizing is that Apple is aware of (1) and (2) and likely has plans in place to accommodate different working styles.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

Personally - I can't stand it when an "impromptu" meeting springs up at the desk next to me and 4 or five engineers are all hovering just next to my cube - I can't stand it... its soul sucking madness that kills my ability to think clearly. I have my collaborative times too - but *my* desk is personal space, and if you aren't invited, then leave and let me do my job. Luckily we are moving toward working from home a day or two a week and I am taking advantage of that.

Looking at the apple campus - I had originally thought how amazing it would be to work there... Now - I think it would be hell. Completely open and all glass with no personal space... nope...

What kills my concentration is nothing to do with a few people talking -- it has everything to do with the quality of the work. If it is interesting and I am engaged and interested - a nuclear bomb could go off next to me (ok an overstatement by a bit) and it will not distract me...

 

[Pilgrim1099]

What’s this then?

Some jobs require more collaborative spaces. Design, marketing, other creative fields thrive better with collaboration. Other jobs require more focused work that is best done uninterrupted and without distractions. That’s where the spaces above come in. It’s not one size fits all at Apple Park. People are freaking out from a few photos and before seeing the finished building.

If I worked at Apple Park and really wanted some peace and quiet, it’s a park! In California! Take your laptop and go sit under a tree. The park within the centre of the spaceship is many times over the square footage of the entire building itself. There’s room for every single employee to sit outside if they want to.

I predict that those used to having an office that they can mess up and personalize themselves will be mad but the younger employees who are used to working while mobile will take advantage of the fact that Apple Park is a campus that doesn’t require you to be chained to your desk.

The bigger question would be, in regards to this photo, are those actually mirrors on the walls? Is that really a good idea? Even if they aren't, they must be highly reflective window/walls. That's still distracting because chances are good that you can see other workers through the other side. That view of the trees is similar to what's at the college campus library ( I'm not a student ) with a huge window on one side of the building revealing a vista of the green mountains of Vermont and the town itself. It's amazing. The rest of the library has, believe it or not, actual private conference rooms with doors that students or anyone can use or reserve in advance. There's actually about two or three floors worth of those rooms all around, including the cubicle tables. It's so quiet like a monastery, it's not even funny. If I really needed to get stuff done, I'd walk all the way out to the library, to cut myself off from the distraction of the coffeehouse, people and all that. And mind you, it's a brand new library with a modern design.

 

[gatearray]

Gruber continued, "When he [Srouji] was shown the floor plans, he was more or less just 'F--- that, f--- you, f--- this, this is bulls---.'

Hmmm, I'm sure there were lots of women in the room when he made these remarks. /s

 

[Pilgrim1099]

You think Steve Jobs has no input on the new campus design? I’ll bet there’s very little he didn’t sign off on in terms of overall design and layout. I’m sorry but Apple spending $5B on a new campus that employees hate so much they’re going to quit is a raised eyebrow story for me. At some point along the way concerns would have been surfaced and plans adjusted. I think once again, like most things Apple, it’s a story blown out of proportion. But the headline Apple employees hate their new campus so much they’re planning to quit is a juicy headline great for clicks.
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How many corporations have campuses with closed, personal offices for anyone other than VP’s/executives? I would imagine most places if they’re not open plan have cubicles.

The interesting part is that, according to the wiki page on Apple Park, Steve Jobs conceived of the new building's shape and purpose. It was Lord Norman Foster who was the main architect of this entire thing, however, I'm quite sure he's had some input from Jony Ive and the others, but most likely the former due to their British connection. Secondly, Jobs also invited Lord Foster to his Pixar building to showcase his point. I'll quote this particular tidbit:

*The building was conceived by Apple's former CEO Steve Jobs, and designed by Lord Norman Foster. Jobs took Foster to the cathedral-like building on the Pixar campus in Emeryville, which Jobs designed himself with the goal of keeping everything under one roof. Steve Jobs spent a large part of two years on the project before his death in 2011.*

This explains why he originally wanted Apple Park to 'unify' everything. After all, it does make sense because it's design related. As my design professor once mentioned to my class in art school, " Order is a related structure and structure is a related order ".

However, I think after Jobs passed on, that level of input probably changed when Jony started taking over and, possibly, altering certain things. Jony is obviously the 'quiet' one and his design staff resides in a top secret department where no one's allowed to go in except for Cook, and maybe a few others. What makes it interesting is that Jony's department has a bunch of Macs and I think, Cintiqs, placed in an open space area with partial walls. I remember this, I think, from a journalist's interview on 60 Minutes(?). They obviously didn't show it all but only a piece of his office. Now, we take that work environment Jony's in and we see this open space concept in Apple Park, which makes me wonder.

Are they all in various departments with private spaces or are they mostly in open spaces? I suspect the ones with private departmental offices are those in management or executive level while the engineering or design crews work in open areas, or partially closed to be monitored over. That part still defeats the purpose of a unified design under one roof on the interior.

And if Apple thinks open space design is going to help their workers be more productive, they're going to have problems straightening their crap out.

I suspect Steve wanted to 'transfer' some of what he had at Pixar over to Apple Park. This article showcases how Pixar had their workers operate in this particular environment:

https://officesnapshots.com/2012/07/16/pixar-headquarters-and-the-legacy-of-steve-jobs/

Most of it is conference room based in open areas, but if you go further down, you'll notice it's the animators or creatives working in their own studios blocking everything out. It's an interesting hiearchy.

EDIT: I just want to add that this level of detail Steve went through for Pixar and going into Apple shows his introvert qualities. Introverts do pick up on the small details, just he famously did with the Google logo looking 'off' and called the CEO up about it, out of concern. No one does that.

I do that a lot because I'm the same way, myself.

But there is NO way in hell Cook could do this. He doesn't have an eye for detail. Definitely not on his own. This also explains why Jobs and Ive got along well because they 'understood' each other's proclivities and work ethic. But I could go on and on about it.

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

This. You can tell the posters who've never had a job that requires concentration.

Or the ones who don't mind being treated like just another cog in a machine.

Exactly. I DID leave out one group though. The apple worshipers.

If apple did it then it's absolutely the best thing and if you don't like it then you are a whiner. Blah, blah, blah. Every thread insinuating apple is not perfect. I seriously could not work well in that environment if it's as it appears and would have to start looking at other options. Some would love it. Its called life and the diverse people in it.

One size will never fit all. For example I can't use apple earpods. They are too small for my ear cavities and will not stay in. Not useable because we are not all clones.

They are a company, not gods. I think there are a number of insecure people that for some reason require an idol on a pedestal in their life and are not religious. Not knocking anyone's teligion btw.
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Gruber continued, "When he [Srouji] was shown the floor plans, he was more or less just 'F--- that, f--- you, f--- this, this is bulls---.'

Hmmm, I'm sure there were lots of women in the room when he made these remarks. /s

In reality many women speak that way and have for some time, The 50's are long gone. Women more agressive in many relationships.

At least as many inner office conflicts between women as between men....maybe more.

Nothing is 100% though and I did see the /s

 

[Pilgrim1099]

Then why are they posting comments assuming this is "new Apple's" fault?

In a sense, Steve started it but Lord Norman Foster was the main architect, who was most likely getting feedback from Jony Ive and other execs. This is probably what happens when you get mixed perspectives to fit under one roof and we see this open design concept here. But also, Cook probably had to deal with the accounting department to 'work out the numbers' and get an economical one, arriving to the 'open space' design, probably with Jony's nod to it.

But the construction crews and also the city had to deal with the certain building restrictions, so Apple probably had to fight over that. I know they did clashed on one part of the building design, having to do with a door and how it was supposed to open due to a fire hazard.

In a sense, it's really Apple's fault because they were smoking 'crackpot' dreams, almost forcing their vision into how the building should look 'in their way' and not according to regulation, somewhat in a wishful way.

I cannot imagine the headache the main architect had to deal with in getting feedback from Apple and also the state of California on building regulations.

 

[Rob_2811]

Seems like a terrible environment for programmers. Apple owes a great deal to Jobs and Ive but how many lines of code have they written? I don't think they are/were well placed to decide what kind of environment works for coders.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating I suppose but it certainly has the look of the kind of form over practicality that has been seen in so many of Apples products.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

What so many posters here aren't recognizing is that 1) not every worker is the same personality type and 2) Some folks just don't do well in collaborative environments. I work with some of the most gifted and amazing minds I've ever met - but some are so math/science focused that they barely can hold a conversation (think autistic spectrum). Now - should these folks be driven out and their talents lost just because of a "corporate decision"? I think not.

Personally - I can't stand it when an "impromptu" meeting springs up at the desk next to me and 4 or five engineers are all hovering just next to my cube - I can't stand it... its soul sucking madness that kills my ability to think clearly. I have my collaborative times too - but *my* desk is personal space, and if you aren't invited, then leave and let me do my job. Luckily we are moving toward working from home a day or two a week and I am taking advantage of that.

Looking at the apple campus - I had originally thought how amazing it would be to work there... Now - I think it would be hell. Completely open and all glass with no personal space... nope...

That's exactly it. People don't get that one just doesn't simply use an open space to 'weed out' the whiners. It's not quite an effective way to manage the workers and helping them become more productive. I'm quite sure they want to do their very best at their jobs due to devotion and passion. They would want to work in a space that's conducive to their personality because also the level of intensity required to concentrate.

I'm not knocking cubicles, either, because they may seem old school, since they get the job done. It may look like a bunch of cubicle prisons straight out of the original TRON (1982) film like a bunch of programs lined up. But it's not as bad as it appears to be. I once interned in a corporate art department at a very large insurance company and this particular office was private and had an actual door. It had a staff of two people who needed my help in maintaining a database of the company's art collection. This office was deeply embedded inside the building, past the cafeteria and past the cubicle sections. It was almost like being Flynn sneaking inside of ENCOM.

It was super quiet with dimmed lights and I was able to get things done as the hours flew by. It was only for a few hours.

And many people don't get that introverts and extroverts have a different style of working and cooperating. Just because it's an 'open space' by Apple doesn't mean it's superior. That's an expensive mistake, as one poster put it here.

This book nails the work space problems regarding introverts and extroverts: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_15?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=quiet+the+power+of+introverts+in+a+world+that+can't+stop+talking&sprefix=quiet+the+power,aps,273&crid=3NL1GM9I851YZ

She brings up the open work spaces and why it can be a huge issue, especially when it comes to impromptu meetings. She nails it. Especially the part where she talks about ENRON getting busted by the government and shut down. Do you know what the cause behind the ENRON issue?

Extroverts pushing it hard for profit without being warned by the 'quiet' ones who saw it coming.

 

[brian3uk]

Headphones aren't a great solution either. A lot of people in my office wear them, and typically the only way to get their attention is to tap them on the shoulder which scares the beejezus out of them.

I wear headphones now all day after moving into a low rise cubicle setting. Luckily my monitor has slightly shiny border and I can usually see people coming up behind me in it. When I miss them and they do tap me it's scary lol. The other thing I've noticed now that some others wear headphones too is that they hit their keyboard harder when they have headphones on. I assume it's because they don't have the audible feedback to know if they've hit the key. That unfortunately only adds to the noise for everyone else whose not wearing headphones. Open office life is a constant battle.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

Thanks for your reply colleague! I totally agree on what you're stating here. Thanks for the tip for this book, I'll check it out!

As for the "modern" work spaces, it also comes along with a "branded" attitude, I'm using the term "branded" because many of the modern new work methods doesn't makes sense to me at all. I give you an example of what this journalist perfectly describes, it's quite funny and troubling as well.

Sorry if I sound like a drunk Swedish rabbit due lack of knowledge for English grammar, I'm Dutch you see, so I'm not that familiar with English as I'm with Dutch.

Here's the link I was talking about:

I agree with that 'branded' concept because it's a design trend but also an economical one for companies to save money and monitor their workers that way, without foresight in how to keep them productive. I think it depends on work environment and attitude in how they're treated and encouraged to do better work or meeting challenges head on at their highest level.

I'm gonna go check out that video!

As for being Swede, no worries . In fact, you'd be surprised that in the Quiet book, the author mentions Norway, Sweden, Finland, etc as being introverted cultures and she brings it up in one chapter here and there. That opened my eyes big time as revelatory. Of course, maybe not quite like Lillehammer ( or Lilyhammer portrayed on Netflix ).

But also, I found this to be fascinating: https://lonerwolf.com/most-introverted-countries-in-the-world/
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These open space offices are just a current trend. Thinking that everyone can just work and focus in one big open space is a giant misconception and when you think about it objectively and logically you'll come to that conclusion yourself. I'm a developer myself and my previous job was in such an office and it was a daily frustration point. Even now I work in open space offices from now and then and most of my colleagues or friends that work in similar jobs have noice cancelling headphones (including me), just to be able to have moments where we can just focus and cancel out the distractions around us. This open space thing is just a trend and I believe that smaller rooms where small teams can work with focus and without distractions will always be better than one giant office where you can't focus on your code for 10min without someone walking behind you, some people talking a few desks away from yours, etc. If you want your employees to be productive and focussed, give them functional offices to do so. Nobody says we should go back to boring cubicles but should we jump from one extreme to the other just to look cool and futuristic?

Pretty much this. Absolutely agreed on. I work freelance from home as a creative and can do my work anywhere I want. So I understand completely. But I also have interned in a corporate art department deeply embedded in an insurance firm years ago which had a small office with a staff of two people that was situated past a floor filled with cubicles. I know what it's like to work sequestered away in a private space versus being 'out there' in the open. I really can't stand having people look over my shoulder seeing what I'm doing as if they can't trust me. I know what I'm doing on my work and have my own pace.

 

[ignatius345]

My last job (design) was in an open-office. I could see some benefits for the tech team because they could very quickly go back and forth to share information or ask questions of each other. I myself would frequently tip a monitor over in my coworker's direction to get a quick opinion on something or ask a question. It's also a bit nicer and more "open" feeling than the classic cubicle farm. If you've ever had the joy of working in one of those, it can feel very claustrophobic and depressing after 8 hours of staring at that gray crap that cubicles are made of all around you.

The flip side of the open office is, you're exposed to everyone's stuff, all the time. Whether it's just random non-work related chatter or just work stuff that doesn't involve your job, or someone's meltdown over their Seamless order, you are just hearing all of it all the time. I know way way more about my old coworkers' lives than I care to. You end up having to protect and modulate your attention by using headphones and signaling to others when you are or are not "available" lest you get pulled into a conversation you don't want. And even then, depending on where you sit, your own screens are just in open view all the time. It feels weird to know there's potentially someone looking over your shoulder at all times. And I'm not talking about non-work related stuff either, it's just not a great feeling.

The best offices I've seen have some elements of both. Semi-private desks but with easily available common areas for quick impromptu collaboration (which tech people in my experience do a lot to problem solve better). And at least with dev teams, you still do need to check in on your team's workflow and progress on your goals.

Different kinds of teams work differently though. In my last, open-office, workplace the dev team and sales people were all very collaborative and always bouncing around to each others' desks and sharing monitors and information -- but over in the editorial department, it was just totally headphone land. The occasional small chats, but way more silent, solo work. Those people probably wanted to be in more separate spaces.

Last thing (this post is getting way too long): check out the history of the Herman Miller "Action Office", which is where cubicles really came from. Interesting stuff!

 

[Gaspode67]

This sounds very much like a cultural divide between North America and large parts of the rest of the world. In the 26 years I've worked in the electronics industry here in the UK, only 3 years of those weren't in open plan offices. In those cases, that was purely due to the wall layout of the building the company was in couldn't be altered. The last company I worked at was a large Touch IC manufacturer where we were the design office handling everything from System Architecture, low level sequencer programming, firmware & algorithm writing, CAD, Software, Applications Engineering, Systems Validation, and Sales. It was all open plan apart from where doors were required for access control to limit access for visitors from outside the company to sensitive information. This was a US company. The previous US company I worked at (3M) also has their offices over here structured in the same way.

You have pods or groups of desks for each department grouped together so that people know what are working on, can interact to discuss projects etc. There's meeting rooms for when you need to get people together for project planning, sales meetings, whatever, along with smaller rooms that you can use if you need to make quieter calls. Speaker phone calls which were once annoying soon changed as most folk use bluetooth headsets linked to their deskphones so they're no more distracting than any other call (as well as letting you go to the coffee machine if you need a drink during a long call!).

We had all different personality types, introverts, extroverts, chatters, those who liked to simply get their heads down to work for 10 hours, etc. Open offices are the norm over here. Yes, divisions are grouped together, so all us Apps Engineers were sat on the top floor in the front section, CAD were next to us, Software development next, etc, but we could all talk, exchange ideas if we wanted to. We're used to it and it works for us. The times I've spent on secondment to US offices and been put in a cube farm were depressing as hell. That's simply not the way that European companies are used to working.

Oh, and it's strange to finally find a topic where I disagree with kdarling! Having been in the touchscreen industry almost as long as you, I'm sure we've got stories we could swap where we find we were both working on the same technology & project opportunities!

 

[fathergll]

And it will be a big disadvantage during cold and flu season.

There is literally nothing worst in the world than when some worker doesn't want to use a sick day and comes into the office with some cold or flu. Open seating makes this all the worst.

 

[ignatius345]

There is literally nothing worst in the world than when some worker doesn't want to use a sick day and comes into the office with some cold or flu. Open seating makes this all the worst.

I blame work culture and also the pharma companies who aggressively market this "TheraFlu" type garbage that just suppresses your symptoms long enough for you to go to work and create more TheraFlu customers.

 

[kdarling]

Gruber continued, "When he [Srouji] was shown the floor plans, he was more or less just 'F--- that, f--- you, f--- this, this is bulls---.'

Hmmm, I'm sure there were lots of women in the room when he made these remarks. /s

My current female boss would've responded with exactly the same words.

 

[Brammy]

It's also been my experience that any initiative to "drive out the whiners, bottom feeders, etc." has the opposite effect. The good people who are very hirable leave, and you are stuck with the people that cling to the job for dear life.

 

[DeepIn2U]

WOW!

Poor whining babies did NOT get an office?
Poor whining babies feel the need to use a headset to make office phone calls.

Open office designs do, within the first year, drop productivity by 40%. Yet it's supposed to invite better collaboration and communication between employees and management along with removing the sense of "ownership" of corporate property amongst all employees. Nobody is more important than another - yet this ALL goes to sh*zzle when its NEVER the case since no management style will ever go that way. Been through 3 office reconstructions and re-orgs and you'd be amazed the attitude of some employees when they loose a window office, an office entirely, and even get no desk positioned right beside a window.

For these wankers I say give them the boot and hire someone with the same or better skills who can APPRECIATE being employed first and foremost vs complaining about office design and seating arrangements!

 

[kdarling]

For these wankers I say give them the boot and hire someone with the same or better skills who can APPRECIATE being employed first and foremost vs complaining about office design and seating arrangements!

Let me guess: you're a manager.

 

[Markoth]

Real talent wouldn't complain about this working environment.
(see my comment above)

Nonsense. Real talent CAN complain about the working environment, because Apple wouldn't want to lose them. If Apple just tells them to go **** off, then the real talent can quite easily get another job.

 

[You are the One]

Again, why would anyone think that Apple hasn't considered all these things? Perhaps they are addressing actual problems by moving to open work spaces and not just picking a concept at random?

Well, you may have a point.

Did you read James Damore's paper on the intellectual echo-chamber at Google? Referring to that, it would make sense if the majority of people at Apple prefer an "Open" workspace. Likely the same thing going on at Google goes on at Apple.

 

[LordVic]

I'd bet that if you ever get to run your own business you will not think too much about it.

you're wrong.

Some of us, when we do manage people actually DO care about their health, safety and well being

what I've learned from a couple decades working now, and as team leads and some management.

Happy employees who like coming to work, are comfortable, and feel like they are important tend to outperform those who don't.

treating employees like mindless drones and numbers and putting them in workplaces that are uncomfortable has tended to wind up with negative performance and employees losing their engagement,.

Countless studies have been performed that indicate the same thing.

Any boss / manager / owner who doesn't give a flying fudge about their employees is simply put, a bad manager. Regardless of the financial outcome

 

[Appleaker]

Then why are they posting comments assuming this is "new Apple's" fault?

Because, like I said in the rest of the post, a lot of changes have been made in that time, by the ‘new Apple’. This appears to be one of those changes.