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Sticky situation. ..... :rolleyes:

It's digital...... tech never works first time, every time...

Water solves all. Now aren't u glad its water resistant ??

By the time i get mine, i would have known all the issues i may be facing :)

....then i'll get it and probably find it has none of these issues
 
Apple PR/Marketing people are having to work overtime in post Jobs Apple. A lot of apologetics in the MacRumors forum. Within two minutes of a negative post Apple PR reps are quick to try and quell any criticism.

No amount of apologetics can hide the fact that post Jobs products have largely been a disappointment: Apple Watch, 12" Macbook, soldered memory, downgrade product updates, shell-game pricing schemes, buggy software, etc. Too bad Steve is gone.

what nonsense. the retina macbook pros are the finest laptops in the world, the mac pro is amazing, the new macbook is an amazing ultra portable, the iPhones are terrific, and the watch on my wrist is slick. as a dev i can tell you that all software has bugs, and always will. our devices do so much more today than they ever have before, and complexity breeds bugs.

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How many hundreds of years have we had watches that you had to wind up or set the time with a rotating stem similar to the crown on the Apple watch?

Weird that Apple could find a way to make something that's been tested over time and ages, suddenly failure prone. In my entire life, none of my old standard watches had the stem become difficult to turn.

Now Apple has devised a way for reliable ancient methods to fail in a week or two?

Very sad.

you're operating under the mistaken impression that this is a widespread problem. its not. mine works fine and I'm willing to bet the vast majority of them work perfectly.
 
No you don't buddy, unless you want GPS. GPS has a precision of 8 meters (if your lucky), so it isn't as useful for tempo as you'd think. There is an 6 axis accelerometer in the watch and that's completely adequate to measure movement and even distance.

But, hey, I'm sure you knew all that. But, just felt like sending FUD out there for the heck of it.

You can use the GPS/accelerometer to more precisely calibrate your stride length, but it isn't absolutely needed. If you want info on training and the watch, read up Christy Turlington's blog. She's had the watch for 2 months prior to release and trained for the marathon.

Go to the Apple web page, read it, and then come back with some actual facts.

kinda protective of a watch. jesus christ lighten up, its a watch. it should have gps built in. imo
 
I wonder what the dynamic is between Cook and Ive... I believe Ive basically had free reign under Jobs' protection, I wonder how that plays out now.

SJ always had the final word on what the public would see. Tim simply looks at the supply chain costs, production capacity, stockholders dividends, and the Hipster Value.

Jony has the final say on what goes public now, IMO. The Digital Crown is the prime example. Jony and Mark most likely decided long ago (after Steve was gone) to use a Digital Crown. It was a poor design, as time will show. Steve would have been more involved.

Then again, SJ would not have done an AW. Precisely why it started the day after his death. He would have seen the lackluster interest that is everywhere except venues such as this. Most of the AW fanatics in here have one because they want to be seen with it on (or used to anyway.)

Form over Function. I don't need an iPhone for my wrist. Some do. :apple:
 
Then again, SJ would not have done an AW. Precisely why it started the day after his death.

I don't necessarily agree with this.

The iPod Nano was updated with new watch faces the day before Jobs died. That wasn't just something they threw in at the last minute after Steve had stopped paying attention. I'm sure Jobs was delighted that people had been wearing the nano as a watch and was excited to offer the additional watch faces to encourage that use. It's hard to believe then that Jobs would not have gotten as excited as Apple about the prospect of developing their own watch.
 
Believe it or not there's a lot of actual discussion, thoughtful ideas and intelligent debate on this forum.

Your, "you people are all children" comment is ironic analogy to make, since your post reads like a child having a temper tantrum.

no it doesn't, it reads as a clear but impassioned reaction. big difference. i would never discount someone's opinion, each is entitled. but many comments here are not thought out opinions, or based on fact even, they're just bashing one way or another, meant to raise ire. which in this case has clearly succeeded, i took the bait.

and don't tell me about what is on these forums, i've been reading them a lot longer than you have. i see the degeneration. i see the blatant reduction to lowest common denominator. just as i said, it's like walking out into the school yard at recess. adults be warned.

i was making my comment not to insult anyone but to express a heartfelt disappointment about a place i used to come for stimulating interaction which is now just a cacophonous relatively substance-free kindergarten. and to see if there are still those who might agree and want to steer it back. obv. not.

if you want the last word, you can have it, i don't care about it. it just wastes more life. have fun.
 
Remember kids... Rinse your watch twice a day to avoid sticky crown ....:apple:

It IS a 1st gen product after all.... You never expect this to be perfect do you ? That has to be some defeats.
 
the irony is that apple under jobs was all about simplicity and elegence yet here they tacked on a [useless] crown and it's prone to failure.

The crown makes great sense as a UI and is not useless at all.
We don't know that "it's prone to failure". We know that an undetermined percent of users have experienced the problem. None of the pre-release users/reviewers noted this as an issue. Perhaps it's a specific lot or production run. Things of this nature occur in many products when first introduced.

We heard a lot about "bend gate" early on but nothing recently. It's a non-issue for most even though you would have thought it was catastrophic by the reports in the early days. Classic "chicken little" BS from antagonists.

Why won't let it play out and see what's happens instead of being knee jerk with uninformed and incomplete information?
 
Why wouldn't you clean the watch after getting sweat all over it?

Good question, because even my citizen Eco drive. Has to be watch with warm fresh water after using it at the beach or scuba diving. Sweat is salt among other things. So I would think one would run some clean water over the watch After workouts.
 
what nonsense. the retina macbook pros are the finest laptops in the world, the mac pro is amazing, the new macbook is an amazing ultra portable, the iPhones are terrific, and the watch on my wrist is slick.

Him Tim!! Welcome to MacRumors! :p
 
No you don't buddy, unless you want GPS. GPS has a precision of 8 meters (if your lucky), so it isn't as useful for tempo as you'd think. There is an 6 axis accelerometer in the watch and that's completely adequate to measure movement and even distance.

Maybe for very short distance like a walk around your street but for long distance it's garbage compared to GPS. I run marathons and wouldn't use anything other than GPS such as Garmin Forerunner.
 
Faulty units, production problems, long wait to get one. Think I'll just wait and see what they come up with for version 2 next year.
 
I don't necessarily agree with this.

The iPod Nano was updated with new watch faces the day before Jobs died. That wasn't just something they threw in at the last minute after Steve had stopped paying attention. I'm sure Jobs was delighted that people had been wearing the nano as a watch and was excited to offer the additional watch faces to encourage that use. It's hard to believe then that Jobs would not have gotten as excited as Apple about the prospect of developing their own watch.

I understand your position, but respectfully disagree. Unfortunately he unavailable to support either opinion. :apple:

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Warning - this post is LONG. But thoughtful.

I've been a daily reader of MacRumors and the forums for close to 10 years now. As a member of the consumer electronics industry and having worked both for Apple's suppliers, competitors, and with Apple to improve their Enterprise Platform technologies while advocating and successfully initiating adoption of the iPhone as not only one of many standards in one of the largest financial & Realestate institutions in the US, I can say confidently that I believe in Apple's methodologies and the core philosophy that made them successful... under Steve Jobs.

For those that don't care for a history lesson skip down to Apple Watch ->>>

First off, Jobs was no peach. He had plenty of human flaws, but those same flaws that caused him to cut off his nose to spite his face were key distinctions from many industry leaders who were scared to taking bold moves.

ANYONE who even thinks Apple was poorly managed under Jobs should be prepared to name ONE, any single ONE company that was run better by someone else. And please have some facts to back that up.

Fact - Without Jobs, MP3 players would have been geek tech that eventually made it's hands into a handful of cronies in the RIAA that would have crippled the tech to the point where we'd all still be sourcing CDs and ripping them to share them on P2P networks with no end in sight.

Without Jobs, the iPhone would NOT exist. Does ANYONE remember what was before the iPhone? And I don't mean other phones with nothing to do with Apple. Riding on the success of the Motorola Razr (if you remember that little product) Motorola made a partnership with Apple to offer the Motorola Rockr, and it was an astounding failure. An extremely limited iPod player interface was ported to mobile Java and the result was a schizophrenic phone that would be a buggy, storage deprived and flat out malfunctioning mess of a music player to a phone that really was no better at making calls or sorting contacts. Forget about EMAIL.

You wanted Email on a phone? Go get (wait for it) a Blackberry. Oh, wait, you can't afford the Black Berry Enterprise server and licensing required? You mean you're just a regular Joe off the street? Well then get an over priced Microsoft Windows CE/Mobile/etc. etc. Device from any number of manufacturers who promise to give you ... wait they don't promise anything really. Although it's windows you can't really updated it without the core engineers at the OEM's labs recompiling code, oh and they were only contracted for initial design, so that's out. But don't worry, if there's a major bug, or ten, we promise to fix one of them in an update, at some distant point in the future. Oh and if you're lucky we won't also charge you for the Microsoft licensing fees.

Apple was and still is by definition a hardware company, but they produce some pretty damn good software as well. The challenge is they've always had a very small software Dev team and they only code for very specific hardware configurations, which before Intel platforms became standard were available to no-one but Apple and Apple customers. Now OS X is far, far more portable than it once was.

So if Apple is a hardware company, and they've got well over 50 BILLION in CASH in the BANK which they don't need to even touch. Because they still make more than enough money from..... wait, what was that? First. iPods, then iPhones, then.... iPads made a little dent, but what's next? What happened to iOS hardware?

It's important that those of you reading this far know that Apples DEFINING Philosophy under Jobs was to make VERY FEW products, but make them VERY WELL.

Cook's role as COO at Apple (up until Steve's health got seriously unmanageable) was primarily to handle supply chain management and that was it. He had the bill of materials given to him with the blessings of Jobs on nearly every product release.

Jobs was a CEO who walked through the labs, peered over the shoulders of his engineers. He beta tested their creations. In fact, he killed off quite a few very good ideas because he felt they just weren't ready for market.

Rushing poor quality products to market to drive short term sales eat away at margins over time. It's exactly why the PC industry has almost zero profitability to it and why ALL-In-One computers have become such a trend.

The last defining product release for Apple was truly the iPad. You could argue that the MacBook redesign was also quite fantastic with Retina displays, slimmer and solid state memory. You could even look at the iMacs and even the Mac Pro and marvel at how well they've incorporated the technology that has been the core of what makes an iPhone or iPad function how it does.

--->>> Back to the Apple Watch.

I am going to say it, the digital crown is utter non-sense. The Apple Watch is, for the first time in all the years I swore off PC's in favor of Macs (all due to the iPhone Gen 1, and this was just as I had moved on from working R&D at one of Apples chief competitors in the phone race.), a piece of Jewelry with some technology slapped on for show.

The watch only had true value if it was inconspicuous yet able to do all the things they had once alluded to it doing. Reminders, Health (Huge and totally missed the mark on gen-one due to obvious failures in vendor readiness.), Pay Systems (Hopefully the damn thing will do that consistently.), Beyond that, it would become part of your daily routine. It should blend so seamlessly with your life that you might as well sleep with it, to which you might even benefit as it could record your sleep patterns.

The Apple watch Gen One is a product I do not truly wish to beta test. Everything I've seen thus far makes it as useful to me as all the other Smart Watches that have failed to keep me consistently putting them on every day.

Cameras in watches may become a novelty, but truly it's going to boil down to simple ergonomics, battery life, health functions, pay systems, and cost of ownership.

The cost of ownership is FAR FAR FAR too high for a such a limited device. You can take a number of seemingly expensive Apple products, strip their innards and see that sourcing equivalent hardware for close to similar platforms will net you a loss vs buying Apple's integrated solution. And with Apple you also benefit from the Ecosystem. Something that Watch has yet to be proven on.

So here are the points of contention with this Gen One Apple Watch:

- Design does not innovate, it caters to the familiar (the crown, the familiar watch face) and seemingly makes excuses for it by incorporating luxury material that add next to no practical value.

- Even IF we were to say, that's ok, it's a nice little gizmo anyway, Apple should have made it so that left handed users can get an equally similar experience by centering the crown on the body. It's just ludicrous to say that left handed users make up such a small population, who cares if we don't make them happy. Frankly, it's not only short sighted and elitist, but it's even nearly akin to apathy for discrimination.

- Battery life and functionality. Key areas here. Yes it can do notifications, yes it does have a battery, but you'll be unnaturally tethered to it's charger and a power source if you aren't extremely conservative with it's use. Also, functionally it's missing key tech that could improve health and provide invaluable data for health researchers and medical practitioners. This is a massive missed opportunity, but thankfully only a temporary one. I have confidence they will address this with some significance by Gen 2.

- Finally execution. It's obvious everyone has complained in some way about almost every single product release from Apple since their juggernaut into the spotlight, but frankly even Antenna issues took months to surface. Not mere days from release. Further to that point, there were practical solutions, such as the Bumper Case and even if you had the patience to hold the phone as awkwardly as suggested it would indeed work.

- Clasps that don't close
- Surfaces that scratch far too easily (save for the sapphire display)
- The key input device becoming restrictive within days of use?
- A heart rate and blood oxygen monitor that will not work on people with dark tattoos?! (Honestly, does this apply to excessive tanning or genetic predisposition to dark pigmentation as well?)

I'm not going to even state the obvious references from these issues, but like another poster on here indicated, Sir Ive may indeed be living in his head a bit more than is beneficial to the success of his designs in practical application.

Og and if I may add one more grievance... in all the years of iOS releases. I have never seen such a tortured, over engineered, bug ridden experience as th move to iOS 8. It took something like 6 betas to get to release, which by no way in any sense of the word was it truly ready at the time for public consumption. Battery and speed issues plagued it until 8.3. Yes, it took them nearly quadruple the time to have a proper release of the OS of any previous to it.

You could argue that this is to be expected when moving to a new UI. I'll grant that, however, the UI design has been far too exposed during it's evolution outside of beta. If they were going to change the UI, then they should have had the new design finished, then they could have focused resources on coding to solve bugs and backend interface idiosyncrasies. Rather they did design, test, release, bug test, bug fix, design, break fixes, test, release, and so on and so on.

This is a terrible process, and believe it or not. Quite a bit of talent has left or expressed concern about Apple's current direction over the past 2 years.

Thankfully, Apple is still so magnificent at what they do that few if any other competitors could effectively threaten or displace them in the next year or two. But past that, I would say they are running out of "room for experimentation" with this over zealous product for every circumstance approach. This fragmented product line was one of the MAJOR killers of the old Apple and it took someone like Jobs to come in and sort out that mess.

Tim Cook is a good CEO, he is a kind and thoughtful man, he is good with press and generally represents himself and his institution well. And Johnny Ive is a creative genius who's truly helped change the way many of us consider technology. But Apple is still missing something. It's missing the one voice in the room who's willing to say NO!

Jobs was very good at telling people NO, and various other colorful expressions, but the point is, he was unwilling to compromise on his standards for the sake of what he believed. You want a good PR image and Cook does bring that to the company but he needs to learn to say NO as his predecessor did or the very thing that made Apple special may fade into the distance.

Thank you. :apple:
 
Maybe for very short distance like a walk around your street but for long distance it's garbage compared to GPS. I run marathons and wouldn't use anything other than GPS such as Garmin Forerunner.

And the precision for a good GPS receiver is much better than 8 meters.
 
Who cares, I live in Aus and have a Pebble Watch. Most times I go to the beach I have sand stuck in the buttons and they're very difficult to use afterwards. I have to rinse it and it's sweet.

Seems to be a common problem with buttons on smartwatches. They probably perfect the button design in next gen.

It's not the reason why I'm not buying, battery life and lack of sensors is the reason.
 
Who cares, I live in Aus and have a Pebble Watch. Most times I go to the beach I have sand stuck in the buttons and they're very difficult to use afterwards. I have to rinse it and it's sweet.

Seems to be a common problem with buttons on smartwatches. They probably perfect the button design in next gen.

It's not the reason why I'm not buying, battery life and lack of sensors is the reason.

Well, it's going to be a WHILE for revision B. Can you imaging dropping 10-17,000 on a AW Edition to have it revised in 12m? Talk about pissed off !!! :apple:
 
Well, it's going to be a WHILE for revision B. Can you imaging dropping 10-17,000 on a AW Edition to have it revised in 12m? Talk about pissed off !!! :apple:

Most people who spend $10K-17K on an Apple Watch, will not even _flinch_ at replacing it in 12 months (if that's really the upgrade cycle).

I know (very peripherally, from the West Coast) people who break car leases for substantial losses because they act on a whim to change makes or have some new minor feature.

To be clear: I'm not tooting their horns, just saying that the $10K+ AW consumer is operating within a totally different set of rules.
 
Most people who spend $10K-17K on an Apple Watch, will not even _flinch_ at replacing it in 12 months (if that's really the upgrade cycle).

I know (very peripherally, from the West Coast) people who break car leases for substantial losses because they act on a whim to change makes or have some new minor feature.

To be clear: I'm not tooting their horns, just saying that the $10K+ AW consumer is operating within a totally different set of rules.

My understanding was an initial 3-5 yr cycle. However, that's probably going to move up. ;)
 
My understanding was an initial 3-5 yr cycle. However, that's probably going to move up. ;)

Honestly, I hope it is longer than a year! I mean, we sprung for, er, cheapies :D but I'd still like to own them for at least a couple of years, before a new model comes out. I don't even mind the 2 year update cycle on phones with the model/model-S.

I'm thinking the market for used watches will probably be decent, lots of folks that don't mind going with an older model for a solid discount (that at least seems to be the case for phones.)
 
no it doesn't, it reads as a clear but impassioned reaction. big difference. i would never discount someone's opinion, each is entitled. but many comments here are not thought out opinions, or based on fact even, they're just bashing one way or another, meant to raise ire. which in this case has clearly succeeded, i took the bait.

and don't tell me about what is on these forums, i've been reading them a lot longer than you have. i see the degeneration. i see the blatant reduction to lowest common denominator. just as i said, it's like walking out into the school yard at recess. adults be warned.

i was making my comment not to insult anyone but to express a heartfelt disappointment about a place i used to come for stimulating interaction which is now just a cacophonous relatively substance-free kindergarten. and to see if there are still those who might agree and want to steer it back. obv. not.

if you want the last word, you can have it, i don't care about it. it just wastes more life. have fun.

For the record, your "impassioned reaction" was in response to this post:

Always wait for apples gen 2 device... the gen 1 is basically a prototype you pay to test for them :rolleyes:

How this person's opinion equates to "blatant reduction to lowest common denominator...like walking out into the school yard at recess. adults be warned" is beyond me. You're entitled to feel how you feel, but I still think this is a civilized place. It's an Apple news and rumors discussion forum and it's not that serious.
 
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