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Want to get this straight. What's the point of this watch. Your iPhone has to be within Bluetooth range. So if I'm it mistaken, the watch is a clone of your phone and the only point is for people that are to lazy to get their phone out they can see a screen on the watch? So if I go running I still have to carry around my massive iPhone 6 plus with me in my shorts as I run?

No you don't buddy, unless you want GPS. GPS has a precision of 8 meters (if your lucky), so it isn't as useful for tempo as you'd think. There is an 6 axis accelerometer in the watch and that's completely adequate to measure movement and even distance.

But, hey, I'm sure you knew all that. But, just felt like sending FUD out there for the heck of it.

You can use the GPS/accelerometer to more precisely calibrate your stride length, but it isn't absolutely needed. If you want info on training and the watch, read up Christy Turlington's blog. She's had the watch for 2 months prior to release and trained for the marathon.

Go to the Apple web page, read it, and then come back with some actual facts.
 
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have you not seen any watches out there? They are all clunky.

Apple should have never made a watch. The thing is clunky, oversized, and unnecessary when you have a smartphone. The should have just improved the already existing iPod Nano 6th gen by making it thinner with more ram and bluetooth.
 
Apple Post Jobs, Watch and other stuff

Warning - this post is LONG. But thoughtful.

I've been a daily reader of MacRumors and the forums for close to 10 years now. As a member of the consumer electronics industry and having worked both for Apple's suppliers, competitors, and with Apple to improve their Enterprise Platform technologies while advocating and successfully initiating adoption of the iPhone as not only one of many standards in one of the largest financial & Realestate institutions in the US, I can say confidently that I believe in Apple's methodologies and the core philosophy that made them successful... under Steve Jobs.

For those that don't care for a history lesson skip down to Apple Watch ->>>

First off, Jobs was no peach. He had plenty of human flaws, but those same flaws that caused him to cut off his nose to spite his face were key distinctions from many industry leaders who were scared to taking bold moves.

ANYONE who even thinks Apple was poorly managed under Jobs should be prepared to name ONE, any single ONE company that was run better by someone else. And please have some facts to back that up.

Fact - Without Jobs, MP3 players would have been geek tech that eventually made it's hands into a handful of cronies in the RIAA that would have crippled the tech to the point where we'd all still be sourcing CDs and ripping them to share them on P2P networks with no end in sight.

Without Jobs, the iPhone would NOT exist. Does ANYONE remember what was before the iPhone? And I don't mean other phones with nothing to do with Apple. Riding on the success of the Motorola Razr (if you remember that little product) Motorola made a partnership with Apple to offer the Motorola Rockr, and it was an astounding failure. An extremely limited iPod player interface was ported to mobile Java and the result was a schizophrenic phone that would be a buggy, storage deprived and flat out malfunctioning mess of a music player to a phone that really was no better at making calls or sorting contacts. Forget about EMAIL.

You wanted Email on a phone? Go get (wait for it) a Blackberry. Oh, wait, you can't afford the Black Berry Enterprise server and licensing required? You mean you're just a regular Joe off the street? Well then get an over priced Microsoft Windows CE/Mobile/etc. etc. Device from any number of manufacturers who promise to give you ... wait they don't promise anything really. Although it's windows you can't really updated it without the core engineers at the OEM's labs recompiling code, oh and they were only contracted for initial design, so that's out. But don't worry, if there's a major bug, or ten, we promise to fix one of them in an update, at some distant point in the future. Oh and if you're lucky we won't also charge you for the Microsoft licensing fees.

Apple was and still is by definition a hardware company, but they produce some pretty damn good software as well. The challenge is they've always had a very small software Dev team and they only code for very specific hardware configurations, which before Intel platforms became standard were available to no-one but Apple and Apple customers. Now OS X is far, far more portable than it once was.

So if Apple is a hardware company, and they've got well over 50 BILLION in CASH in the BANK which they don't need to even touch. Because they still make more than enough money from..... wait, what was that? First. iPods, then iPhones, then.... iPads made a little dent, but what's next? What happened to iOS hardware?

It's important that those of you reading this far know that Apples DEFINING Philosophy under Jobs was to make VERY FEW products, but make them VERY WELL.

Cook's role as COO at Apple (up until Steve's health got seriously unmanageable) was primarily to handle supply chain management and that was it. He had the bill of materials given to him with the blessings of Jobs on nearly every product release.

Jobs was a CEO who walked through the labs, peered over the shoulders of his engineers. He beta tested their creations. In fact, he killed off quite a few very good ideas because he felt they just weren't ready for market.

Rushing poor quality products to market to drive short term sales eat away at margins over time. It's exactly why the PC industry has almost zero profitability to it and why ALL-In-One computers have become such a trend.

The last defining product release for Apple was truly the iPad. You could argue that the MacBook redesign was also quite fantastic with Retina displays, slimmer and solid state memory. You could even look at the iMacs and even the Mac Pro and marvel at how well they've incorporated the technology that has been the core of what makes an iPhone or iPad function how it does.

--->>> Back to the Apple Watch.

I am going to say it, the digital crown is utter non-sense. The Apple Watch is, for the first time in all the years I swore off PC's in favor of Macs (all due to the iPhone Gen 1, and this was just as I had moved on from working R&D at one of Apples chief competitors in the phone race.), a piece of Jewelry with some technology slapped on for show.

The watch only had true value if it was inconspicuous yet able to do all the things they had once alluded to it doing. Reminders, Health (Huge and totally missed the mark on gen-one due to obvious failures in vendor readiness.), Pay Systems (Hopefully the damn thing will do that consistently.), Beyond that, it would become part of your daily routine. It should blend so seamlessly with your life that you might as well sleep with it, to which you might even benefit as it could record your sleep patterns.

The Apple watch Gen One is a product I do not truly wish to beta test. Everything I've seen thus far makes it as useful to me as all the other Smart Watches that have failed to keep me consistently putting them on every day.

Cameras in watches may become a novelty, but truly it's going to boil down to simple ergonomics, battery life, health functions, pay systems, and cost of ownership.

The cost of ownership is FAR FAR FAR too high for a such a limited device. You can take a number of seemingly expensive Apple products, strip their innards and see that sourcing equivalent hardware for close to similar platforms will net you a loss vs buying Apple's integrated solution. And with Apple you also benefit from the Ecosystem. Something that Watch has yet to be proven on.

So here are the points of contention with this Gen One Apple Watch:

- Design does not innovate, it caters to the familiar (the crown, the familiar watch face) and seemingly makes excuses for it by incorporating luxury material that add next to no practical value.

- Even IF we were to say, that's ok, it's a nice little gizmo anyway, Apple should have made it so that left handed users can get an equally similar experience by centering the crown on the body. It's just ludicrous to say that left handed users make up such a small population, who cares if we don't make them happy. Frankly, it's not only short sighted and elitist, but it's even nearly akin to apathy for discrimination.

- Battery life and functionality. Key areas here. Yes it can do notifications, yes it does have a battery, but you'll be unnaturally tethered to it's charger and a power source if you aren't extremely conservative with it's use. Also, functionally it's missing key tech that could improve health and provide invaluable data for health researchers and medical practitioners. This is a massive missed opportunity, but thankfully only a temporary one. I have confidence they will address this with some significance by Gen 2.

- Finally execution. It's obvious everyone has complained in some way about almost every single product release from Apple since their juggernaut into the spotlight, but frankly even Antenna issues took months to surface. Not mere days from release. Further to that point, there were practical solutions, such as the Bumper Case and even if you had the patience to hold the phone as awkwardly as suggested it would indeed work.

- Clasps that don't close
- Surfaces that scratch far too easily (save for the sapphire display)
- The key input device becoming restrictive within days of use?
- A heart rate and blood oxygen monitor that will not work on people with dark tattoos?! (Honestly, does this apply to excessive tanning or genetic predisposition to dark pigmentation as well?)

I'm not going to even state the obvious references from these issues, but like another poster on here indicated, Sir Ive may indeed be living in his head a bit more than is beneficial to the success of his designs in practical application.

Og and if I may add one more grievance... in all the years of iOS releases. I have never seen such a tortured, over engineered, bug ridden experience as th move to iOS 8. It took something like 6 betas to get to release, which by no way in any sense of the word was it truly ready at the time for public consumption. Battery and speed issues plagued it until 8.3. Yes, it took them nearly quadruple the time to have a proper release of the OS of any previous to it.

You could argue that this is to be expected when moving to a new UI. I'll grant that, however, the UI design has been far too exposed during it's evolution outside of beta. If they were going to change the UI, then they should have had the new design finished, then they could have focused resources on coding to solve bugs and backend interface idiosyncrasies. Rather they did design, test, release, bug test, bug fix, design, break fixes, test, release, and so on and so on.

This is a terrible process, and believe it or not. Quite a bit of talent has left or expressed concern about Apple's current direction over the past 2 years.

Thankfully, Apple is still so magnificent at what they do that few if any other competitors could effectively threaten or displace them in the next year or two. But past that, I would say they are running out of "room for experimentation" with this over zealous product for every circumstance approach. This fragmented product line was one of the MAJOR killers of the old Apple and it took someone like Jobs to come in and sort out that mess.

Tim Cook is a good CEO, he is a kind and thoughtful man, he is good with press and generally represents himself and his institution well. And Johnny Ive is a creative genius who's truly helped change the way many of us consider technology. But Apple is still missing something. It's missing the one voice in the room who's willing to say NO!

Jobs was very good at telling people NO, and various other colorful expressions, but the point is, he was unwilling to compromise on his standards for the sake of what he believed. You want a good PR image and Cook does bring that to the company but he needs to learn to say NO as his predecessor did or the very thing that made Apple special may fade into the distance.
 
It's only been a week though. I've had a Cartier for 20 years and I have it serviced & cleaned when I need the battery changed like every five to seven years or so but I've never ever had my crown stick.

Never.

How can this happen after only a week?
 
It's only been a week though. I've had a Cartier for 20 years and I have it serviced & cleaned when I need the battery changed like every five to seven years or so but I've never ever had my crown stick.

Never.

How can this happen after only a week?

I’d bet you my IRA that many Cartier owners had their crowns stick but you never heard about it because there is no Cartier user forum or YouTube channel. In the Internet era just ONE individual can start an avalanche of negativity. Oh yes, that ethereal “some users” meme. How many? We don’t know. Under what conditions? We don’t know. For example, have you read some of the user claims about screens being scratched? They almost always start out with the disclaimer, “I didn’t do nuttin’, it just scratched.” Really?
 
It's only been a week though. I've had a Cartier for 20 years and I have it serviced & cleaned when I need the battery changed like every five to seven years or so but I've never ever had my crown stick.

Never.

How can this happen after only a week?

HAve you jogged with? How often do you handle your crown, 50 times a day like this watch?

It can happen because people handle this thing a lot with dirty hands (have you ever seen some mouses) and sweat can gum things up (that's why you clean clothes...)

Also,how prevalent is this really in regular usage, 1 in 100, 1 in 1000? Can this be "fixed" easily (it can, 10 secs under water).

If people but their dirty fingers on the screen (the alternative entry method), I'd expect they'd clean once in a while too.
 
Warning - this post is LONG. But thoughtful

You sound like those Samsung fanboys who are trashing the S6 because it has a non-replaceable battery, a metal case, and no SD card slot. Jobs had the gall to die on you and you can’t deal with it. Life goes on.
 
I’d bet you my IRA that many Cartier owners had their crowns stick but you never heard about it because there is no Cartier user forum or YouTube channel. In the Internet era just ONE individual can start an avalanche of negativity. Oh yes, that ethereal “some users” meme. How many? We don’t know. Under what conditions? We don’t know. For example, have you read some of the user claims about screens being scratched? They almost always start out with the disclaimer, “I didn’t do nuttin’, it just scratched.” Really?

i get that but that's not my point.
 
Warning - this post is LONG. But thoughtful.

The Apple watch Gen One is a product I do not truly wish to beta test. Everything I've seen thus far makes it as useful to me as all the other Smart Watches that have failed to keep me consistently putting them on every day.

Wow, that was a lot of words to simply say, you are not a fan of the Apple Watch. I don't know what to say to people like you, but for me, my experience thus far has far exceeded any expectations I had for the Watch.

The fitness tracking alone is worth it to me for my daily runs and exercise. The text messaging and phone calls save me a ton of time as I can leave my phone in another room or in my backpack and still be productive. Heck, you can keep your phone off and still text and email in wi-fi areas, now that's cool.

Battery issues? I am charging my phone less now and my Watch is going for 2-3 days and I am using it for a morning run, wearing most of the day and texting and phone calls.

It's fine that you don't want one, don't like it, etc. but don't rain on other's happiness as there are quite a few of us that love our Watches and not just because they look cool on our wrists.
 
You think these are even close to the same? Under Jobs we never saw such an increasing number of unhappy, disappointed, and frustrated customers as we see under Cook.

Customers were leaving Apple when under Jobs for a variety of reasons. There was poor quality hardware and software. His vision for the company also failed to keep up with the times. I'd say Apple is doing just fine now.
 
HAve you jogged with? How often do you handle your crown, 50 times a day like this watch?

It can happen because people handle this thing a lot with dirty hands (have you ever seen some mouses) and sweat can gum things up (that's why you clean clothes...)

Also,how prevalent is this really in regular usage, 1 in 100, 1 in 1000? Can this be "fixed" easily (it can, 10 secs under water).

If people but their dirty fingers on the screen (the alternative entry method), I'd expect they'd clean once in a while too.

Sure I jogged with it. I worked in it. Worked out in it. Mowed the lawn with it. Planted flowers, spread mulch, pruned trees. it's an every day watch. I'd only take it off to shower.

I'm sure others have had theirs stick but not after such a short period. It's only been 7 days.
 
Sure I jogged with it. I worked in it. Worked out in it. Mowed the lawn with it. Planted flowers, spread mulch, pruned trees. it's an every day watch. I'd only take it off to shower.

I'm sure others have had theirs stick but not after such a short period. It's only been 7 days.

I'm just stating that in certain usage, it would get dirty. There is an optical sensor in there, its possible its not the crown itself that's the issue, but the fact the light is blocked by the dirt.

Also, it depends on what you do. If you put dirt mixed in with something sticky (heavy motor oil, peanut butter...), it would be a problem.

Anyway, there is an easy fix, so whatever; just another click bait title for the pile.
 
Such a bizarre suggestion by Apple. The thing is not waterproof. They are setting themselves up for a ton of repair request from water-damaged watches.
 
Very happy with my watch. I don't think I'll run into any issues unless I am unlucky. But all these articles about "affecting a few users" does make me scratch my head some. Perhaps I should buy AppleCare+ since I was already on the fence, and it is a first gen product so you just never know. Or am I being overly paranoid? :eek:
 
have you not seen any watches out there? They are all clunky.

Not at all. Have you seen a Skagen watch?

----------

Well, they did, Blanche. They did make a watch. And there's absolutely nothing you can do about.

The fact that Apple ignored the iPod Nano (which I was never interested in) in favor of a watch (which I am interested in) pleases me greatly.

I'm always amazed how fanboys take negative comments about Apple products so personally. Even resorting to name calling. I happen to own many Apple products but it is becoming clear that this product was only introduced so that Tim Cook could claim he invented a product.
 
You sound like those Samsung fanboys who are trashing the S6 because it has a non-replaceable battery, a metal case, and no SD card slot. Jobs had the gall to die on you and you can’t deal with it. Life goes on.

That's what you took away from all that? Being that I started my career in mobile tech at Samsung working in product development, I suppose I could only tell you you have no clue who I am or what I am saying.

You have no clue about supply chain management, you have no clue of the politics both internal and external to either Apple or Samsung, you have no clue the distinction between a "fanboy" and a practicing technologist who spends every waking moment researching and evaluating end point tech for the sake of improving the user experience.

But it really doesn't matter since the value of this medium rarely seems to exceed the "quit retort" or quip to ridicule or denigrate.

If you wish to mock someone's death in order to attempt to elicit an emotional response on a message board that's certainly your prerogative to do so, just as it is mine to highlight that your response proved nothing more than the fact you can read and write sentences. Congratulations.

PS: Just for your personal satisfaction. Jobs shunned enterprise business, refused to cater to the needs of a great many potential clients. Made it both frustrating and challenging to support the device which lead to a great number of information technology nightmares, especially around the matter of security. He cannibalized supportive vendors when ever he felt technology should be delivered by Apple and Apple alone, and didn't make a success out of each and every acquisition.

But he was just a man, not a god, and we have no idea how Tim will adjust to his new role. He is actually just coming into his own on this. I personally don't care one way or the other for the Apple watch or any of it's competitors. I've evaluated them all and each has it's shortcomings. The Gear, Motorola and LG are probably the closest alternatives with a blend of style, consumer appeal and practicality. (Not in that order.)

But NONE of the watches on the market today are ready. None of them.

What's missing:

- Electrocardiographic Heart Rate monitoring OR highly evolved optical tech. In my technical opinion, I have doubts we can ever account for all use case variations. Skin pigmentation (yes even natural tanning or dark skinned people) affects these optics just as a tattoo does, it's light transmission not metallics as some have proposed. The distance from the hard on the wrist is the fundamental challenge with current electrocardiographic tech, so unless you want yet another peripheral pasted to your left breast then we don't have a good solution there.

- I was about to list possible solutions and then realized, I'm not getting paid by anyone for this, so if you'd like to know about medical tech and mobile solutions to these problems as well as a few others feel free to see if I'm available for an engagement.

In the meantime I will be awaiting the Apple Watch Gen One to add to my collection of technological artifacts. :cool:
 
I'd just like to know how many people actually have this issue. "Some" is not a number. If it's a small number of people it doesn't deserve a front page story. Not until/if it's determined it's a much bigger issue.

If something gets its own Apple support page (as this did), then it probably deserves a front page story to alert people to the solution for it, in case they have it happen.

I'm just stating that in certain usage, it would get dirty. There is an optical sensor in there, its possible its not the crown itself that's the issue, but the fact the light is blocked by the dirt.

Pretty sure it uses a Hall effect sensor, not an optical one.

Also, it's inside the O-ring that seals the internals from the outside.
 
Couple things wrong with this post, why is this a problem with Apple watches and not normal watches? Does it have to do with a quality issue?

And secondly, if Apple is saying a 10-15 second rinse "fixes" the problem why does it take a week turn around for Apple to fix it? Surely that means there's an underlying problem and their suggested fix is not a permanent fix...
 
Not at all. Have you seen a Skagen watch?

----------



I'm always amazed how fanboys take negative comments about Apple products so personally. Even resorting to name calling. I happen to own many Apple products but it is becoming clear that this product was only introduced so that Tim Cook could claim he invented a product.

Negative commentary in online forums is a very common and even natural evolution of "keyboard warrior" mentality. The difference is seen when someone who has practical experience they become exceedingly trite resorting to almost any means to make the commenter kowtow to them prior to posting anything further. You don't owe anyone any explanation or excuse for your opinions. A factual discussion however can lead to productive debate.

And no, I don't agree with your assessment on Tim Cook's intention for these reasons.

- Many products have been "on the shelf" in Apple's patent and Research archives. The watch has been one of them.

- Steve Jobs was not an exceedingly technical man and his claims usually did not imply he invented anything. As a company leader however, he can and sometimes did take credit for bringing the talent together to allow for the product's invention (in supposedly the best possible incarnation).

- Tim Cook is not known to be as egocentric as Steve Jobs, so he would be unlikely to be motivated by personal recognition, rather he would be more inclined to make an attempt to prove his role as a leader merely to ensure investor and corporate citizen's confidence. (This is a key role of an effective leader, ensuring there is calm during turbulent times and retaining talent. And that means upward and downward accountability.)

----

If I may share my opinion on why the watch is being released now. I believe in very good faith promises were made about the watch's ability to function as a payment system and medical data collection system.

This concept may seem counterintuitive but it's what the watch does when you aren't directly interacting with it that makes it such a valuable extension to a person. Passively collecting medical data and being ready and available at a moment's notice.

There were several pieces of tech needed for this. NFC for payments, Bluetooth LE for regular and persistent data transmission with very low energy consumption, and a litany of medical sensors to track blood glucose, blood pressure AND heart rate (the rest of which won't be listed as much of the tech is still being developed so it never would have made it to Gen One), accelerometers and gyroscopes for motion and fitness tracking, haptic feedback for notifications and alarms.

Of all those listen, the Glucose sensors were just not ready for mass production but it's likely they didn't learn of this until mid to late in the prototyping phase.

And I'll leave it at that. But I am happy to share some perspective on how it likely went down if you're interested.

Oh and yes, I am currently working on these technologies, however Apple would be a "vendor" in the data supply chain. My current work lies in medical data analytics and medical research.

----------

If something gets its own Apple support page (as this did), then it probably deserves a front page story to alert people to the solution for it, in case they have it happen.



Pretty sure it uses a Hall effect sensor, not an optical one.

Also, it's inside the O-ring that seals the internals from the outside.

The answer to your question is simple. Sensationalist journalism. It's click bait, but it still doesn't mean we can't use this as an opportunity to discuss the merits of this Gen One iteration.

If the problem lies with the O-ring then using water to "clean" the device is a risky proposition. If the story is true and Apple engineers have officially sanctioned this method to resolve "sticky crown syndrome" (j/K) then it seems more likely the crown is collecting debris that must be removed from time to time.

This could be seen as a design flaw, as it's method of action is being impeded by natural environmental factors in it's expected use case. Rinsing off the watch from time to time is one thing.

Removing the bands and winding the crown under a running faucet sounds like excessive maintenance for a part that's barely been in use for a few days.

----------

Couple things wrong with this post, why is this a problem with Apple watches and not normal watches? Does it have to do with a quality issue?

And secondly, if Apple is saying a 10-15 second rinse "fixes" the problem why does it take a week turn around for Apple to fix it? Surely that means there's an underlying problem and their suggested fix is not a permanent fix...

The week is likely referring to them sourcing a refurbished unit. Which would "technically" be a brand new unit with a serial number allocated to refurb / warranty lots. There is no way they are paying technicians to dissect this thing and gut it.

Question is, is it a problem with watches from all factories or only certain lots?
 
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