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Some of you are delusional...

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zhenya said:
Like it or not, Apple is committed to building a completely new paradigm where tablets will eventually be able to do most of what people need. They are not going to bring OS X to a touch device. So stop holding your breath. There are going to be both positives and negatives to the way that Apple is approaching this, just as there are positives and negatives to the way that Microsoft is approaching it. Pick the one that suits you.
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As discussion, not argument or bickering, there is a big universe of people for whom iOS apps are just not going to be suitable for genuine business productivity needs. Those people are going to stick with a MacBook or make the leap to the SP3.

A Pro-like device could probably eventually get there, but the MS Office apps (at a minimum) need to be better synchronized with their desktop equivalents. Mouse support in the Pro would be important to a lot of people for whom a stylus and touchscreen are not going to be good substitutes.
 
I've been using my ipad mini 2 with a keyboard case and surprisingly, it's been almost perfect for what I typically would need a laptop to do. The hardware is fast and the apps are competent (and inexpensive). In the end it's about the quality and usefulness of the apps on any platform. That said, if I want to do heavy lifting away from my office, I just use it to remote desktop to my workstation. Otherwise, iOS, especially iOS9 works great for me. I like the transition in my daily use from work to home. To each their own.
 
I haven't used any MS Office programs for my work in about fifteen years, so that's not really a benchmark. Whether the iPad Pro, or really, the Air 2, can replace a laptop depends on one's requirements for both hobby and work.

I can do a large part of my work on the Air 2, with an external keyboard, since most of it is text-related, but not as conveniently as I can do it on a "full" computer. My hobby is electronic music, which the iPad Pro will be very suitable for, but a proper computer gives me more freedom (this is true for other things as well; the absence of a proper file system hurts).

In the end, it just depends on what you do.

The SP3 doesn't work for me as a tablet because the battery life is seriously low, but perhaps the SP4 will nail it.
 
newellj said:
As discussion, not argument or bickering, there is a big universe of people for whom iOS apps are just not going to be suitable for genuine business productivity needs. Those people are going to stick with a MacBook or make the leap to the SP3.

A Pro-like device could probably eventually get there, but the MS Office apps (at a minimum) need to be better synchronized with their desktop equivalents. Mouse support in the Pro would be important to a lot of people for whom a stylus and touchscreen are not going to be good substitutes.
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I think that stating any such thing emphatically or as if it will be a permanent case is to miss the bigger picture. Of course today there are many, many things that people can't do on an iPad, but make no mistake, the software environment on iOS is improving at a rapid pace. Even in my engineering job I have found places where Excel on the iPad can now suffice for mobile work, where there was no such option just a year or so ago. It's still no full replacement, but Apple is building this system incrementally and it will get better. Microsoft, with the baggage of legacy compatibility is in the similarly difficult position of having to build their new system in parallel with the old one. I have a Surface Pro as my main work computer, but it is really a much better laptop than tablet for most things. Microsoft may struggle to ever overcome that hurdle entirely with legacy Windows.
 
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I currently have a rmbp 15 and an air 2 lte (unlimited data) .. I'm kinda tempted to buy an iPad pro lte (unlimited data) and sell both my rmbp and air 2 and also purchase a 5k imac.
 
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Esco1199 said:
I need to apologize and this comment made me think about my parents usage on their desktop. Being how they only surf the web and use Facebook to yell at me for going out to much I can see the iPad pro as a replacement for them. However, I do not think that the "parents" computer population outnumbers the population that uses a computer for more than surfing the web.
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You might oughta check the numbers, there's more of us than there is of you. If you take spendable income into consideration!
 
Tablet sales are sagging. That won't change with the introduction of the iPad Pro.

The alternative in many cases isn't a laptop, it's a phablet. There's a reason Apple emphasized a graphics arts app and stylus; it's one of the few areas where something like a big, high res surface that lays flat and you can draw on it is needed. How many other applications need that? Not many. It's a niche thing, and sort of unfair to compare it to laptops. I guess you could use it like a slightly better Surface Pro, but you're then stuck with iOS, which doesn't work well for some typical laptop tasks, and lacks peripheral support, which is a deal killer as well for many laptop users.
 
In WWDC '98 Steve Jobs announced abandoning OS 7 and bringing in OS X, because when the original MacOS was made it was not made with the future advancement in mind so they just kept adding code and plug-ins to it until it became this heavy OS and closer to a mutated freak.

This is what is happening with iOS. Its a cell-phone OS that at release they had no idea it will have an app store. Now its its supposed to run Microsoft office with a stylus.

I have been following Apple for a long time, one of the reasons Jobs said Apple was failing(in mid-90s) is because its vast product line. He said he spent like 2 weeks and he still can't tell the difference between Apple computer models and then he came up with his 4X4 grid (Desktop-Laptop) x (Pro - Consumer) .

Now we have 5 iPads: iPad mini 2 , iPad mini 4, iPad Air , iPad Air 2, and iPad Pro. The same thing goes with macbooks. There are 3 models of macbook pro 13, 2 macbook pro 15, 4 macbook Airs, and 2 macbooks (which is thinner than Macbook air, go figure.)

just my 2-cent.
 
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zhenya said:
I think that stating any such thing emphatically or as if it will be a permanent case is to miss the bigger picture. Of course today there are many, many things that people can't do on an iPad, but make no mistake, the software environment on iOS is improving at a rapid pace. Even in my engineering job I have found places where Excel on the iPad can now suffice for mobile work, where there was no such option just a year or so ago. It's still no full replacement, but Apple is building this system incrementally and it will get better. Microsoft, with the baggage of legacy compatibility is in the similarly difficult position of having to build their new system in parallel with the old one. I have a Surface Pro as my main work computer, but it is really a much better laptop than tablet for most things. Microsoft may struggle to ever overcome that hurdle entirely with legacy Windows.
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I didn't say anything about this being the permanent case - quite the contrary. If the last 30 years teach us anything, they teach us that tech innovates in unexpected ways. Your Excel experience is good, but a lot of people are going to feel differently.

I agree that the SP3 is actually more a laptop than a tablet (and as a tablet, it's not that hot), but the iPad Pro seems to want to be a quasi-laptop. I think it's likely to prove a far better tablet than laptop replacement.

One interesting wildcard in this market segment (segments?) is how MS develops Office for iOS. Their most recent publicity about Office on the Pro suggests that they may be committed to converging Office for iOS and the desktop OS versions, which could eliminate most of the rationale for OS convergence. It would still be appreciated by a fair number of users if iOS would provide file-level access but there are a variety of workarounds that aren't fatally burdensome.
 
MacBH928 said:
In WWDC '98 Steve Jobs announced abandoning OS 7 and bringing in OS X, because when the original MacOS was made it was not made with the future advancement in mind so they just kept adding code and plug-ins to it until it became this heavy OS and closer to a mutated freak.

This is what is happening with iOS. Its a cell-phone OS that at release they had no idea it will have an app store. Now its its supposed to run Microsoft office with a stylus.

I have been following Apple for a long time, one of the reasons Jobs said Apple was failing(in mid-90s) is because its vast product line. He said he spent like 2 weeks and he still can't tell the difference between Apple computer models and then he came up with his 4X4 grid (Desktop-Laptop) x (Pro - Consumer) .

Now we have 5 iPads: iPad mini 2 , iPad mini 4, iPad Air , iPad Air 2, and iPad Pro. The same thing goes with macbooks. There are 3 models of macbook pro 13, 2 macbook pro 15, 4 macbook Airs, and 2 macbooks (which is thinner than Macbook air, go figure.)

just my 2-cent.
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I would definitely agree that the product lines have an awful lot of overlap today. You'd think that would be the sort of thing that Tim Cook would be good at sorting out. Maybe they're in a phase of throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks before they start pruning...we'll see.
 
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sracer said:
If only the iPad Pro could do what a "gimped" Windows RT" Surface could do...


keep in mind, this video is 2 years old.

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The biggest thing the iPad Pro is going to be able to do in a few months that the RT isn't going to be able to do... be on the newest OS. And have app updates, most likely. The upside to not getting updates is that my RT is taking forever to use Windows update, though, so there's that.
 
angrystroker said:
For me the fact that one must hold the thing in one hand to use it is the very most ridiculous feature. That one thing nixes any possibility of myself ever owning the contraption.
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Maybe one day we'll be able to jerk off with our minds but until then I'm thankful for my opposable thumb.

Anyways I'm the OP and I just want to say I didn't mean to offend anyone. Some valid points came across but the best one is apple is afraid of hurting the MacBook sales if they put OS X on the iPad. The surface can get away with it because MS really doesn't have other products.

However, I still believe that surface type hybrids are the evolution of the tablet. Apple has been the first in almost every aspect of gadgets ipod, phone, watch (ehhh), pad, and just plain bringing sexy back to computers. The people at Apple are smarter than any of us but they must see that surface sales are brining in 1 billion dollars a quarter!!! You cannot ignore that a hybrid has a market base but Apple is afraid because it will effect MacBooks.

Solution: Trim the fat in the product line by having the little tablet and iPhone use iOS, toss out MacBook Air and combine it with iPad pro so if you want play world or Warcraft you can, or quickly disconnect the keyboard for playing FarmVille when it's time to poo.
 
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Completely agree with you, OP. This is not a productivity device. It will not be a replacement to a Mac for most people. This is clearly Apple searching for something to make the iPad relevant to people and not having an answer.
 
If they threw in at least a fully capable browser that can use all the plug-ins(except flash of course), then it might make a good replacement for some.

I used to play chess against people on a website that required a java plug-in. Wasn't able to do that on the iPad, but was able to do so with the BB Playbook with no issues. I wish everyone would stop with these crippled browsers and sites catering to it. I mostly use the desktop version of sites on iOS, Android, and WP. Would love to have a browser that was as good as I experienced on the BB Playbook.

This is why I would pay over $800+ for ONLY a Surface Pro tablet.
 
The problem Apple has with iPads (they still sell loads but no doubt less than they hoped) is that people are obsessed with their iPhones (and other smartphones). I'm fairly certain Apple envisioned (10+ years ago) the iPad fulfilling the role of the mobile, secondary, companion device that smartphones now do for many people. The iPad is not a larger iPhone, rather the iPhone is a smaller iPad that came out first because they couldn't get the specs of the iPad right.

Ten years later and the iPhone has become the revolutionary device that the iPad was meant to be. And ten years later we see with the Surface Pro and new MacBook how mobile "proper" computers have become. That technology also makes the iPad Pro possible but puts the iPad line in a bit of an awkward spot.

I don't really have a point to make but personally I love the iPad how it is, I would say I use it 100% more than my MacBook Air and 1000% more than my iPhone 6 (which is not much more than a phone and a camera to me). An Apple hybrid device would definitely interest me but for now I like having both and the ~2kg weight of carrying them together is not an issue (though mostly the Mac stays home).

I have no interest in the Pro line (except for the pencil) and I think it is a niche device. Whether it signals that Apple is heading down the hybrid route (or something similar) I have no idea but I hope they don't abandon the concept of the iPad.
 
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Esco1199 said:
...if you think the pro will replace your laptop/desktop. Lot of threads and comments referring to the iPad pro replacing your current laptop/desktop and I just don't understand how people can think that. It will run with iOS not a full OS like the surface does.

I'm in the IT field and I love my iPad for lounging on the couch and surfing the web or playing games on the toilet. However, that's where it stops. No MS suite, Adobe suite, or real programs in general. The off chance that one of these programs has an app for iOS will be functionally limited to a word viewer or something of that nature.

The age of the tablet is dying and the more time apple wastes with this 13 inch candy crush player the more people will move to a "hybrid" like the surface 3/4 running a full windows 10 OS that can double as a tablet.

Here's a pov from a web designer...your meeting a client and you bring the surface you can load up dreamweaver, Photoshop, or any other program and make changes on the spot. With the iPad pro all you can do is take notes while playing hill climb.

tldr: Put OS X on this new iPad so we can do different things other than play bubble pop games.
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How about student taking notes?
 
Warbrain said:
Completely agree with you, OP. This is not a productivity device. It will not be a replacement to a Mac for most people. This is clearly Apple searching for something to make the iPad relevant to people and not having an answer.
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Whatever the case I foresee my next purchase to be the surface pro 4 when it comes next month. 14 inch screen and the skylake processor with a decent integrated graphics that doesn't suck...just take my money. I've been waiting to long and was really hoping the pro would run full Mavericks but instead we get another iPad with no USB port, explorable file/folder structure, mouse support.
 
BUT...... http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/10/...d_Classic&utm_campaign=Engadget&ncid=rss_semi
guibut.jpg
but.jpg
but_paper.jpg
 
pat500000 said:
How about student taking notes?
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If your a student then there's 100% chance that you have a laptop with a full OS so laying down the student card has no weight in this discussion. I'll still bite though so here it is...we know you have a laptop but let's say you also have this new iPad. Before you walk out the door for the lecture you have a choice of your MacBook 13' or iPad pro 13'. Do I really need to go on about which one you choose to take notes with?
 
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