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I'm definitely not a power user but it's been very disappointing for me. I do not like the changes that iWork '13 makes to my '09 files. I also do not like that anything created with '13 cannot be opened by others using '09 and who may be unable to update to Mavericks & '13.

That is the thing that makes the least sense here. All of this years updates have been pretty non-invasive for functionality wether you could move to iOS 7/ mavericks or not.... Except the auto-updated iWork blows everything older out of the water, and breaks the file format as well. This is where Apple should have marked them as NEW apps and not upgrades, especially if you mix an older device with newer devices as your iOS devices can't easily have BOTH until we're happy with Apple.

iWork is one of those things Apple never really pursued. Partly because Steve was happy to throw Microsoft that bone, because Microsoft was really good at it. The only reason we have iWork back us that Apple got tired of Microsoft making childish idle threats to cut Macs off. The lack of any focus on Bento shows Apple's love is just not into Office Applications. The main problem is that iWork on Mac OS is a distinctly different PHILOSOPHY how apps work together with AppleScript as a "Computer" versus iOS and it's heavily sandboxed "apps". "computer" people seem to be losing out at Apple right now.
 
Out of curiosity why did you archive '13 instead of just deleting it? For future installations you could go to your Purchases tab in the MAS and the new iWork should be available to re-download.

Also, now that you have '13 archived do you see available updates in the MAS for '09? On mine it updated '09 to 13' automatically (as I had automatic MAS updates enabled), and when I disabled auto-updates and re-did the whole '09 install it now always shows 3 updates available via MAS which is annoying as you can't hide them.

I wasn't sure how the MAS would handle a deletion, so I figured I'd hold onto the app in archived form until I knew. It showed up again in the updates, so it turns out I could have just trashed it, and still have the option to update again later.

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I find it hard to equate current users of a software package to being "early adopters" when the package has been around for over a decade (if you take into consideration that Keynote was release in 2003, eight years, if you want to count from Pages release in 2005). So many years of having software around negates it being an "early adopter" situation, in my mind. That's why I believe that Apple will bring back most, if not all, of the missing features in iWork 5.

I'm not following your logic. Speaking for myself, I am a Day One user of the iWork apps, so by definition that makes me an early adopter. The point being, I've had six years to develop a workflow on Pages. Apple has just blown it to smithereens. Maybe someday they will rectify this mistake, but from the standpoint of a user of these apps for years, it is a painful and unpardonable mistake.
 
Open Finder, find a Pages document,

Do Get Info.

Find "open with" in the info box.

It shows Pages 5.0 as default. Change this to Pages 4.3 by selecting it from drop-down menu.

Click the "Change All" button under the drop-down box.

An "are you sure?" dialogue box pops up. Cick "continue."

That should do it. Do report back if it doesn't work.

It changes the first time, but the default reverts to Pages 5.0 thereafter. At least for some users... your mileage may vary.
 
I'm not following your logic. Speaking for myself, I am a Day One user of the iWork apps, so by definition that makes me an early adopter. The point being, I've had six years to develop a workflow on Pages. Apple has just blown it to smithereens. Maybe someday they will rectify this mistake, but from the standpoint of a user of these apps for years, it is a painful and unpardonable mistake.


There is no logic to follow. Sorry for you and all who are experiencing issues with upgrades. Hope Apple makes this right very quickly.

Personally, I'm staying away from all the new free stuff Apple is offering. Apple is just a little too willing IMHO.
 
power users and hmmmm we ......... apple is trying to please the majority here

When Pages was released 8 years ago, it was promoted as both a Word Processor and a Page Layout program. Obviously, there are some folks that only used it for Word Processing. They have lost a lot of features in Pages 5, but the damage may be repairable. However, there are a lot of us who used the Page Layout mode for complex documents like newsletters, brochures, snazzy reports and such. My wife has worked professionally as a newsletter editor using Pages. Her clients were small nonprofits that hardly required Quark or inDesign, but did require more than TextEdit. Every one of those hundreds of documents uses text flow via text box linking, which has been the most elementary feature of every page layout program since at least Aldus PageMaker in 1985. Opening any of those documents in iOS, iCloud, or OSX Pages 5 permanently deletes all the links, leaving a completely worthless vestige of the original. Maybe Pages 5.0 pleases the majority of word processing users (although I doubt it), but it demolishes the work flow of EVERY Page Layout user... not just a majority.
 
They messed up Garageband too. You can't even export MP3 anymore or set the parameters you want. :mad:

Funny what they call an upgrade. Making the desktop less powerful to be parity with a weaker (IOS) platform is a mistake. Lowest common denominator.

This is not true.

Did you even try the new GarageBand? MP3 export is still there, and in the same place it was before: Share->Export Song to Disk.
 
iWork on desktop still has a looooooong way to go before it reaches MS Office standards


I'm surprised iWork for iOS hardly updated anything but add a new coat of paint

I will patiently wait for a real version of MS Office for iOS

If Apple is not careful enough they'll see more and more users migrate back or to MS Office 2011 (or whatever newer version debuts if more features and less restrictions are added). Not to mention if Office for iOS debuts with iCloud backup and sync ... then yes more and more Apple Mac Mini's, iMac's, MBP's/MBA's will be accepted in the office - but at what cost to Apple's software divisions?
 
Heh... I haven't even gotten around to downloading these apps.

Don't intend to use any of them for a looooong time.
 
Just wanted to add in that the feature exclusion that hurts me most is the way that images are handled. I have a few hundred documents that include images... and now all images (and header/footer) are gone, forcing me to to stick with iWork 09. I don't even have the choice to reformat anything, they are just GONE.
 
My point is you're investing in the wrong tool. Do yourself a favor and buy Microsoft Office. Pages is meant for home users typing a letter to grandma.

You seem too clever telling me what I should do, not knowing what my work is, and, you know? I think you not even has used Pages.

I already did me a favor years ago choosing Pages after trying with Word. As a matter of fact we have Office but nobody want's to use it.

Pages 09 is perfect for my work, we don't write letters to grandma, we make technical reports and documents, mixing text with graphics, tables and pictures, waaaaaay easy and quick with Pages than Word.

We are more productive and make more money in less time. That's all
You can use Word if you like, we don't need it. Thanks.
 
Right, when I said technically demanding I did not mean your profession but the type of feature sets you need in your software. But in any case i do agree that Apple removing critical features, without warning, on any of their software is maddening to the users who have sustained them for so many years. I am personally in dread fear for what they are going to do to Aperture in their next major release, assuming they ever have one.

It has really gotten to the point where Apple creates some great software that is hard to walk away from because of the mix of power and ease of use, but then they let the software either die slowly for lack of updates, or kill it quickly by "upgrading." The list is getting long now: iWeb, iMovie, Final Cut and now Pages. Aperture seems to be in hospice. I am going to think long and hard before I invest more of my time and assets in any future Apple software product.

Actually I think iPhoto and iMovie improved over the last couple of upgrades. iCal is significantly better as well. I don't think Apple is out to cripple their products. Pages seems to be the one app that took the hit and I think its because the features that are being referenced as gone could not be implemented as is in the current re-write. I do expect these features to return.

The opportunity for Apple to create a true cross platform suite of productivity software with a common set of power features is too great.

I also noticed that even after upgrading everything - I still have iWork 09. So I have been comparing and it looks like Pages was unique in the number of hits to features - given this I am more convinced that functionality will be returned over time and this new upgrade was a re-factoring of code to support cross platform development.
 
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No export to RTF is huge. My classes require assignments in RTF.

Just booted 2013 Pages from my dock and reinstated 2009. I've never been a fan of Pages will continue to use Word for any non-screenplay writing I do.
 
Actually I think iPhoto and iMovie improved over the last couple of upgrades. iCal is significantly better as well. I don't think Apple is out to cripple their products. Pages seems to be the one app that took the hit and I think its because the features that are being referenced as gone could not be implemented as is in the current re-write. I do expect these features to return.

The opportunity for Apple to create a true cross platform suite of productivity software with a common set of power features is too great.

I also noticed that even after upgrading everything - I still have iWork 09. So I have been comparing and it looks like Pages was unique in the number of hits to features - given this I am more convinced that functionality will be returned over time and this new upgrade was a re-factoring of code to support cross platform development.

Go to the Wikipedia page for iMovie and look at the section covering the "upgrade" from iMovie HD 6 to iMovie '08. I used iMovie HD 6 and it was a great program, particularly the timeline which gave you an immense amount of control over the sound tracks, effects, etc. iMovie '08 got rid of all of those features and instead replaced them with the current interface which is far less powerful but theoretically it supposed to be easier to use for new users. Sound familiar? Yes, it has improved over the past few iterations, but I would argue it the UI was much better in iMovie HD 6. And like the latest Pages "upgrade," Apple left iMovie HD 6 on users hard drives since they knew the new iMovie had less features than the the old version.

I pretty much gave up on iMovie after it changed to '08. However, recently I helped my teenage daughter create a movie for a class she was taking using the latest iMovie, and I can unequivocally state that the UI is still not as good or as easy to use as iMovie HD 6 was. There were quite a few things we tried to do that I knew could have been done easily in iMovie HD6, but was next to impossible in the latest iMovie. And while I don't consider myself an expert editor by any means, I have helped produce videos and commercials for an ad agency and occasionally work with video editors today, so I am quite familiar with what can and should be able to be done in a NLE.

Also, the fact that Apple leaves the older, better version on your hard drive is little comfort to those who have invested hundreds of hours creating content in the program. This is because you know that program will only work for so long before a hardware or OS upgrade will leave your old program useless. It also means you are left to use a legacy app that will never get any better than it is right now. So whatever bug you wanted fixed, or feature added is never going to happen.
 
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Go to the Wikipedia page for iMovie and look at the section covering the "upgrade" from iMovie HD 6 to iMovie '08. I used iMovie HD 6 and it was a great program, particularly the timeline which gave you an immense amount of control over the sound tracks, effects, etc. iMovie '08 got rid of all of those features and instead replaced them with the current interface which is far less powerful but theoretically it supposed to be easier to use for new users. Sound familiar? Yes, it has improved over the past few iterations, but I would argue it the UI was much better in iMovie HD 6. And like the latest Pages "upgrade," Apple left iMovie HD 6 on users hard drives since they knew the new iMovie had less features than the the old version.

I pretty much gave up on iMovie after it changed to '08. However, recently I helped my teenage daughter create a movie for a class she was taking using the latest iMovie, and I can unequivocally state that the UI is still not as good or as easy to use as iMovie HD 6 was. There were quite a few things we tried to do that I knew could have been done easily in iMovie HD6, but was next to impossible in the latest iMovie. And while I don't consider myself an expert editor by any means, I have helped produce videos and commercials for an ad agency and occasionally work with video editors today, so I am quite familiar with what can and should be able to be done in a NLE.

Also, the fact that Apple leaves the older, better version on your hard drive is little comfort to those who have invested hundreds of hours creating content in the program. This is because you know that program will only work for so long before a hardware or OS upgrade will leave your old program useless. It also means you are left to use a legacy app that will never get any better than it is right now. So whatever bug you wanted fixed, or feature added is never going to happen.

OK well you definitely are more expert on the video stuff than me so I will take your word on iMovie - I just haven't noticed anything for what I do. iPhoto is better - much faster and I checked and found all the features that I use.

I still stand by my argument on iWork - I think this effort was a refactor of the whole code base to Cocoa and will be the foundation of new features to be added later.

Update - Looking at the wikipedia page - it seems some of the features that were lost after iMovie 6 were introduced in later versions of iMovie.

"Criticism of iMovie '08
iMovie 08 was criticized due to its drastic abandonment of some iMovie HD 6 features. New York Times reviewer David Pogue said "iMovie ‘08 is an utter bafflement... incapable of the more sophisticated editing that the old iMovie made so enjoyable...All visual effects are gone — even basic options like slow motion, reverse motion, fast motion, and black-and-white. And you can’t have more than one project open at a time."[4]
Features removed included the classic timeline, the ability to create DVD chapter markers, support for plugins, and in-timeline audio adjustment and control. iMovie '08 imports to a much more limited set of video codecs and metadata formats than previous versions of iMovie or today's QuickTime Player. For example, QuickTime Player can be extended to support the FLIP Video 3ivx MPEG-4 codec, but iMovie '08 cannot. iMovie '08 also removed the ability to import DV footage. As a result, all resulting videos have lossy compression applied and there is no facility for managing full format video. The peculiar lack of QuickTime support means QuickTime Pro can edit a larger range of video than iMovie '08.
Apple released iMovie HD 6 as a free download to those who had purchased iMovie '08.[5] However, in response to the release of the subsequent newer version of iMovie '09, Apple removed the download in late January 2009[6] while also reducing the $299 price tag for Final Cut Express to $199. Several of the features removed from iMovie '08 that were previously included with iMovie HD 6 have been restored into iMovie '09 and, more recently, iMovie '11.
iMovie '09


iMovie '09 (Version 8.0) was released January 2009 as part of the iLife '09 package. It introduced some new features and restored some features from previous versions of iMovie, including basic video effects (such as fast/slow motion and aged film) and image stabilization as well as travel map functions for marking locations where a video was shot. iMovie '09 also introduced simple implementations of more advanced features such as picture-in-picture and Chroma keying. It also improved editing with a precision cut editor and a clip trimmer, improved support for hard drive-based cameras such as the Flip Mino, added some new titles and transitions, and added full iDVD support (which was unavailable in iMovie '08). In addition, it introduced a Full-Screen Library Browser with which the user can find and examine all of his or her video in one place.
iMovie '11


iMovie '11 (Version 9.0) was released on October 20, 2010 as part of the iLife '11 package. It has the ability to make trailers for home movies, more control over audio, instant replay and flash and hold effects, facial recognition, news themes, and the ability to watch the video on a Mac, iPad, iPhone/iPod touch, or Apple TV, as well as sharing on Facebook and YouTube. It now supports the AVCHD Lite format.
Apple worked with Abbey Road Studios in London, England to bring original music/film scores to iMovie '11. The music is most notably used in the "trailers" feature provided by the software.
On January 6, 2011, Apple made iMovie '11 (along with Aperture, the iWork suite, and the rest of the iLife suite) available on the then-new Mac App Store.[7]"
 
I still stand by my argument on iWork - I think this effort was a refactor of the whole code base to Cocoa and will be the foundation of new features to be added later.

One hopes that it will not continue to go backwards but one also has to consider that this version was four years in the making. So hope does not necessarily spring eternal.
 
One hopes that it will not continue to go backwards but one also has to consider that this version was four years in the making. So hope does not necessarily spring eternal.

I don't think it was four years in the making. Remember, it was just earlier this year that they expanded their iWork team. While I don't think they did all the work this year, I think this last year was a big push. It wouldn't surprise me if they started it maybe a year or so ago.
 
iWork is a strange one for Apple. It seems as if one hand they want to compete with Microsoft but then if they create a full-on Office alternative Microsoft could pull the plug in the Mac version.

Although Microsoft is slowly crumbling, Office remains a very significant tool in the real world.
 
iWork is a strange one for Apple. It seems as if one hand they want to compete with Microsoft but then if they create a full-on Office alternative Microsoft could pull the plug in the Mac version.

Although Microsoft is slowly crumbling, Office remains a very significant tool in the real world.

Apple should just do it if they can. If they can make an Office alternative that is completely competitive, they wouldn't be afraid of losing Office on the Mac. Maybe if they created a better iWork, Microsoft would be forced to make a better Office for Mac.
 
Remember that, like Final Cut Pro X, this was a 'from the ground up' rewrite of the software. It is never going to have all the features of the original in the first version. But (and i'm no Apple fanboy believe me) you have to say that Apple did a great job at getting Final Cut Pro X up to speed in a very short time, and I went from a FCPX hater to using it as my primary NLE. I imagine iWork will get its features back eventually. But unlike FCPX, they haven't shut out the previous version of the software for people who still need it. So callllm down everyone, everything will be ok :D

As I've written some place else, there's a huge difference: FCPX wasn't bound to the limitations of full iOS editability. It is just simply not an applicable comparison. If full iOS editability is the rule, then iWork will never be as powerful as it can be on the Mac for two simple reasons:
  1. From a usability perspective, iOS devices will not be able to do as much as iWork could do on a Mac.
  2. From a market perspective, iOS users will not demand the features Mac users do.

This can be a slippery slope for all software Apple decides to make fully compatible with iOS.
 
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iWork is a strange one for Apple. It seems as if one hand they want to compete with Microsoft but then if they create a full-on Office alternative Microsoft could pull the plug in the Mac version.

Although Microsoft is slowly crumbling, Office remains a very significant tool in the real world.


I think Apple would be in trouble without Office. I don't use it but about 95% of enterprise customers do. Office is the standard.
 
I don't think it was four years in the making. Remember, it was just earlier this year that they expanded their iWork team. While I don't think they did all the work this year, I think this last year was a big push. It wouldn't surprise me if they started it maybe a year or so ago.

Point taken, but I didn't mean literally four years in the making. The first three was in getting around to it. May at some point Apple will signal their direction on these apps, but if history is any guide, only if the stink gets big enough to be embarrassing.
 
One hopes that it will not continue to go backwards but one also has to consider that this version was four years in the making. So hope does not necessarily spring eternal.

If you take a look at how iMovie was upgraded during its re-write it got lost features back in subsequent updates. It did not go backwards.

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Apple should just do it if they can. If they can make an Office alternative that is completely competitive, they wouldn't be afraid of losing Office on the Mac. Maybe if they created a better iWork, Microsoft would be forced to make a better Office for Mac.

I agree - however, they cannot do it in one fell swoop. If they came out with a perfect feature match for MS Office - it would not succeed because they do not have the usage base. They would be fighting uphill without any advantage.

What they have done in this last update is make iWork equal across all platforms. MS does not have that. They have also given it away for free. There are enough features for people to use. As they roll in new features for each program - usage will grow as the install base will be there (non Mac users can get it on their iPads). Also windows users can use it in their browsers. Apple now has a path (no cost path) into the enterprise.

The tipping point when iWork gets feature parity with MS Office - it will be ubiquitous in tablets, desktop/laptops and through iCloud. All features available across the board.

That is why Microsoft is reacting as it did - the current iWork is not a threat - but Apple has laid the groundwork for when it is feature compatible - it will be able to penetrate everywhere. If users see it as feature compatible and its free and works across all platforms - there is no switchover cost.

Switchover costs is what has prevented Open Office and Google drive from supplanting MS Office.
 
iWork is a strange one for Apple. It seems as if one hand they want to compete with Microsoft but then if they create a full-on Office alternative Microsoft could pull the plug in the Mac version.

Although Microsoft is slowly crumbling, Office remains a very significant tool in the real world.

Microsoft is not crumbling. It has had some difficulty in the device space - but it has a strong presence in the enterprise and in a lot of homes. Their cloud base applications are very good - in fact I like outlook.com better than gmail - but I have everything in GMAIL that it would be a pain in the ass to move. If they could improve their online maps and get more of an App ecosystem - they will do well. Windows 8 has gotten a bit of a bad rap because it was a large departure from traditional Windows - but the interface does transition from the desktop environment to the mobile/tablet environment.

MS still has a lot of software like Azure, SQL server and Windows server that takes a good slice of the market. While I have been supporting Apple's moves in this thread - I am by no means writing MS off of the world of the living. You cannot count on Ballmer to bollocks it up from here on out.
 
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