Some Power Users Are Unhappy With Lost Features in the New iWork

[Snowy_River]

I'm not following your logic. Speaking for myself, I am a Day One user of the iWork apps, so by definition that makes me an early adopter. The point being, I've had six years to develop a workflow on Pages. Apple has just blown it to smithereens. Maybe someday they will rectify this mistake, but from the standpoint of a user of these apps for years, it is a painful and unpardonable mistake.

My logic: after eight years, the user base for an application doesn't really qualify as "early adopters". By now, the user base is reasonably mature. Yes, there are people who were early adopters, like you and me, but people who bought into the software three or four years after it was introduced (iWork '09?) would still have been using the software for years now, and couldn't really be considered to be early adopters.

... it demolishes the work flow of EVERY Page Layout user... not just a majority.

And this is why I'm not going to touch it for now. Probably 90% of what I do in Pages is page layout. For the word-processing tasks I have, I could almost get by with just TextEdit (though I do use Pages for them, too, because it's quite a nice word processor).

Go to the Wikipedia page for iMovie and look at the section covering the "upgrade" from iMovie HD 6 to iMovie '08. I used iMovie HD 6 and it was a great program, particularly the timeline which gave you an immense amount of control over the sound tracks, effects, etc...

While I will freely grant that you have more experience with video editing than I do, you are overlooking the primary reason that iMovie was rewritten: it was buggy as H***. I've built a number of projects in iMovie, both before and after the rewrite. I do know what you mean about the timeline, and how nice it was. It was a great UI. But, and this is a bit but, I can't tell you how many times I had to rebuild a project, sometimes starting from a backup, sometimes starting from scratch, losing hours or even days of work, because iMovie 6 had corrupted the entire project file. And my experience was far from unique. Apple knew that iMovie was a problem.

I believe, if I recall, the story was that one of the engineers on the iMovie team decided to see what he could do while he was in vacation because he was sick and tired of trying to track down the bugs in the code. So, he wrote a whole new program, and presented it to his supervisor when he got back from vacation. That ended up being the code base for the new iMovie.

The one problem with this argument is that opinions on UI differ from person to person. I've known people who thought that the new interface was much better than the old. Personally, I think that I'd be more inclined to agree with you. But my point is that the UI is an aspect that different people can argue about, whereas the overall stability of the software and its file handling methods are quite a bit less subjective, and in that area, the new iMovie platform outshines the old by quite a bit.

...If full iOS editability is the rule, then iWork will never be as powerful as it can be on the Mac for two simple reasons:

1. From a usability perspective, iOS devices will not be able to do as much as iWork could do on a Mac.
2. From a market perspective, iOS users will not demand the features Mac users do.

This can be a slippery slope for all software Apple decides to stop seeing as professional.

Myself, I don't care so much about full iOS editability. But I do care about full iOS compatibility. Let me do some editing on my iPad without wrecking the document that I created on my computer. And, if there were a desire to implement full iOS editability, then the proper approach would be to let the desktop platform drive the features, and the goal for the iOS platform would simply be to develop a UI methodology that made sense.

 

[cgsnipinva]

I am not so sure iOS will not be powerful enough going forward. We all were asking questions why one of the key updates to the iPhone 5S was the new A7 chip (64 bit). I think Apple is preparing for future enhancements to iOS that makes it more powerful and assumes some capabilities of OS X.

That additional processing and memory power and some updates to iOS could make the iPad a real productivity machine. Maybe that is why we have the rumors of a 12 inch iPad?

 

[Wild-Bill]

But regarding your previous comment, it appears that plugin support is still there so it seems the error here was behind the keyboard, as is so often the case.

I see the preference you are talking about. And that only allows for AU's to be placed on the "Master" track. You cannot create a software instrument and then change its generator to EzDrummer. You cannot create a new blank audio track and add any AUs whatsoever so bye bye Amplitube as well.

 

[Aluminum213]

If Apple is not careful enough they'll see more and more users migrate back or to MS Office 2011 (or whatever newer version debuts if more features and less restrictions are added). Not to mention if Office for iOS debuts with iCloud backup and sync ... then yes more and more Apple Mac Mini's, iMac's, MBP's/MBA's will be accepted in the office - but at what cost to Apple's software divisions?

I use MS 2011 still, and still blows away iWork, and it's not even close

 

[C42D]

Horrible!!!

It's a joke and a slap in the face for Pro users. Check out the star ratings for the new Keynote, Numbers and Pages in the app store. 2 out of the 3 have more 1 star ratings than 5 star ratings.

pathetic. I am going back to PPT!!!

Apple - you just lost me, and I considered myself un-loseable up until 7 days ago.

 

[waldobushman]

That's why they call in rumors

For the first time I used the new Pages on both the laptop and the iPad on same document.

I haven't checked all the supposed functions of the old Pages that are missing in the new, but so far, many of the supposed non-functions still work and work better.

Seems like many commenters on the site are simply stupid.

 

[danielsutton]

Hard to do since Filemaker decided to whack Bento (the dumbed down version FileMaker).

Apple doesn't need Bento anymore, they have FileMaker, which is much more capable. Apple owns FileMaker, Inc., the developer of the software, so it would be easy for them to build it into both iWork (for desktop and portable Mac systems), as well as iWork for iCloud (for cross-platform operation -- Mac, Linux, UNIX, Windows, etc.).

 

[Snowy_River]

Is anyone compiling a list of all of the features that have gone missing from the iWork apps? I'd love to see such a, more or less, complete list...

Here's the answer to my own question, at least for Pages. Similar threads exist for Numbers and Keynote.

Apple doesn't need Bento anymore, they have FileMaker, which is much more capable. Apple owns FileMaker, Inc., the developer of the software, so it would be easy for them to build it into both iWork (for desktop and portable Mac systems), as well as iWork for iCloud (for cross-platform operation -- Mac, Linux, UNIX, Windows, etc.).

Uh... Are you aware of how much FileMaker sells for? I highly doubt they would include a full seat of FileMaker as a free app, the way they are now doing with the iWork apps. Pulling a version of Bento over, reskinning it to make it fit better, and probably renaming it something like "Data" would be a much more likely step for them to take.

 

[oplix]

1 Step backward is 2 steps forward for Apple in the Tim Cook era.

 

[iTxuser]

Stupid is as...

For the first time I used the new Pages on both the laptop and the iPad on same document.

I haven't checked all the supposed functions of the old Pages that are missing in the new, but so far, many of the supposed non-functions still work and work better.

Seems like many commenters on the site are simply stupid.

Seems like many commenters on the site simply use a different set of features than you do. Please show me how to link text boxes, show a vertical ruler, set up persistent alignment guides (that aren't linked to a single moving object and disappear when it stops moving), export to .rtf, cleanly export to .doc, reorder pages within a document, insert an image within a text block, search and replace for text including a tab or carriage return, and select and modify noncontiguous text, just for example. Those aren't "power user" functions. They are minimal page layout functions, most of which I have been using on Macs since 1985.

I suppose you can show me where to find those features, since I am stupid and you are not.

 

[ncaissie]

I knew this was going to be the case when I heard they were offering in app purchases.
Ridiculous is what it is.

 

[Firelock]

While I will freely grant that you have more experience with video editing than I do, you are overlooking the primary reason that iMovie was rewritten: it was buggy as H***. I've built a number of projects in iMovie, both before and after the rewrite. I do know what you mean about the timeline, and how nice it was. It was a great UI. But, and this is a bit but, I can't tell you how many times I had to rebuild a project, sometimes starting from a backup, sometimes starting from scratch, losing hours or even days of work, because iMovie 6 had corrupted the entire project file. And my experience was far from unique. Apple knew that iMovie was a problem.

I agree that it was crash prone. And I don't mind the fact they rewrote it, but why get rid of some of the best features in the process? Also I definitely not mean to imply I am an experienced editor. I did run video production at a job I held a few years back, mainly meaning I helped arrange logistics, rent equipment, help set up the sound and lighting, coordinate animators and editors, etc. As for the actual editing, I left that to the people who knew what they were doing. But I did stand over their shoulders while they did their thing in FCP and give suggestions. My hands-on experience is in still photography and retouching.

 

[saha-med]

Just used it for the first time after i got mavericks.Using pages for simple reports, its awesome as its so soo smooth compared to word.

But wheres my automatic captioning? wheres the automatic heading numbering?

Went to back to Word quickly. Although it was a smooth experience using pages

 

[IJ Reilly]

My logic: after eight years, the user base for an application doesn't really qualify as "early adopters". By now, the user base is reasonably mature. Yes, there are people who were early adopters, like you and me, but people who bought into the software three or four years after it was introduced (iWork '09?) would still have been using the software for years now, and couldn't really be considered to be early adopters.

This is just semantics really. Anyone who started with the previous versions and became accustomed to their features is being taken backwards, and the longer we've spent with it, the more disruptive this regression will be. As much as I dislike Word (and Microsoft's approach to just about everything) I have to give them credit for creating some continuity. This is what's been lacking in Apple's approach lately. I don't know how they plan on building a user base for their productively software when it's becoming so obvious that they might well yank the rug out at any time.

 

[haruhiko]

To me "power user" and "iWork" in the same sentence sounds interesting.

 

[iMat77]

Feedback

I provided the feedback to Apple.

What is absolutely a dealbraker, is the disappearance of the page miniatures in Numbers (now the pages are in the top row), and the amount of wasted space in the full screen layout that would allow you to have the page miniatures.
Also, the "print layout" view is no longer there, which was one of the most interesting features of numbers compared to excel. These are just two out of many... But are the absolute worst in my opinion.

The third being that it is now much harder to discern the "table" part of the page from the "layout" part of it. One of the reasons I chose to use Numbers was because the layout concept of a page was so much more intuitive than excel. If the features now are on par, well... Then I'll have to go for the software who allows for the most formulas and has the best "logic formula support" and allows me to input them in english without changing the language of the OS.

The software I am talking about, was developed originally for the Mac by a small company based in Redmont... Some years ago.

This software, not the whole suite of softwares that grew around it making it bloated, is still one of the best and most useful softwares written in the history of computers.

 

[Todd B.]

Hold on, let me get the tiny violin for the "power users".

Never before have I seen a group of people that make up 1% of the userbase cry and moan as if they were the 99% of the userbase.

 

[ScottNWDW]

Okay, I've read through many of these posts. before the update people were complaining that iWork had not been updated for years and that the programs were inadequate so much so that if you were a "power user" you were already using MS Office. I heard the complaints that Numbers' features and functions could not compare to Excel, it couldn't handle the complex things that Excel could do. Same types of remarks regarding Pages/Word and Keynote/PowerPoint.

I used the old ClarisWorks/AppleWorks whatever it was called in the mid nineties. Back then my Mac died on me and at the time could not afford a new Mac since they were several thousands of dollars. I bought a Windows machine. I used MS Office at work and liked Excel and was able to get a decent price on MS Office. The the rest of the nineties and all the way through to 2011 I used Windows PC's and MS Office. With the iPhone 3G I started the slow migration back to Apple. iPhone, iPad and then my Windows laptop died. I ended up getting a MacBook Pro. When I bought the MacBook, I also got a copy of iWork, because I remembered how much I liked using the old AppleWorks/ClarisWorks. After having used Excel for over 15 years, iWork was a little clunky at first, but I got used to it. I also bought MS Office for Mac and had Excel/Word there for compatibility with work. The more I used Numbers the more I liked it. Pages I already loved over Word and well I rarely, if ever, used Powerpoint and the same is true for Keynote.

Having iWork on my Mac and iOS devices was great for me. I could update my documents on the fly, didn't have to worry about even hitting "save" it did it all automagically and all was good. Having identical versions of my work on all my devices is in a word GREAT! Couldn't and still can't do that with Office. You have to use third party apps to open/edit Office documents and even then you don't get many of the functions and in some cases no graphics and the formatting is all out of whack. Microsoft needs to pull their head out of there a$$ and wakes up and put Office on at least the iPad. I would gladly subscribe to Office 365 for that functionality. They really missed out on a huge opportunity with the iPad. When you consider the three "core" Office apps were apps originally written for the Mac, it is a shame that now the Mac version of those 3 core apps are treated more as an afterthought. Had MS put out an iOS version of Office for the iPad a few years ago, I believe their subscription base would be passing a several times more than the 2 million they just reported

Now a new version of iWork is out and quite frankly I am in love with the new version. It is so much easier to use and the clunkiness is gone. And where all of a sudden did all these "Power Users" come from. Before the update they were all touting Excel and Word because they had so many more features etc, etc etc. Now al of a sudden they are crying because their small obscure feature is missing. Maybe they just can't find it and they are still probably crying because automakers don't put 8-tracks in cars anymore.

For "me" the new versions of Numbers and Pages is far better than the old version. They are so much easier to use. Since 2011 I have found myself using MS Office less and less and turning more to iWork. When the update came out I found myself even more productive because I was able to find things in Numbers and Pages where with the older version I had to hunt for. In the newer version they were right there in the context sensitive pane on the right. The usability or "experience" on both the Mac and iOS versions for me is far better since the update. For "me" I find it so much easier now to create documents on my devices regardless of the device. So much so that I have not opened any MS Office application since the update came out. Earlier in this post I said I would gladly subscribe to Office 365 if I was able to use Office on my iOS devices. The longer it takes them to do that, the more I will be using iWork instead and by the time they finally do release Office on the iPad will probably be too little, too late.

 

[mabhatter]

Hard to do since Filemaker decided to whack Bento (the dumbed down version FileMaker).

That should have been writing on the wall.because they kept dumbing down Bento so far it couldn't even talk to the other iWork apps. They never really made it a "first class" suite member.. And obviously had no plans to.

 

[RiK]

Hold on, let me get the tiny violin for the "power users".

Never before have I seen a group of people that make up 1% of the userbase cry and moan as if they were the 99% of the userbase.

I guess you're in the 'Facebook still works so I'm happy' group then.

Clearly you've not used any of the multitude of features that have just been removed, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating for those who did.

 

[Ploki]

can't please everyone

anyone

----------

Hold on, let me get the tiny violin for the "power users".

Never before have I seen a group of people that make up 1% of the userbase cry and moan as if they were the 99% of the userbase.

Whatever. Do you really think 99% of user base uses pages for two-page documents? People who actually know how to use computers use TEXTEDIT for that.

Pages was supposed to be a microsoft Word alternative, that means a full fledged structure and formatting solution, not only Pages 5 doesn't have index of figures or figure captions, its TOC doesn't even work anymore.

These aren't "POWER" features, these are BASIC FEATURES.

 

[RiK]

In a former life I was a software engineer in an industrial automation company. I was responsible for my own documentation and wrote everything from tech specs to 600+ page technical manuals. The books were produced in Framemaker, the promotional and tech spec sheets usually in InDesign. It's fair to say I'm pretty familiar with document layout applications.

I've used MS Office for as long as it's been around and yet for many years now I've been using Pages as my primary document editor. Why? Because it did everything I need and as with most Apple software it did so in a simple, elegant way that I found a pleasure to use.

I now run two businesses and I have over 900 pages documents on my Mac, everything from letters, through business stationery, internal reference documents & promotional material up to several books of 2-300 pages each. Other than the simplest of letters, the new version pages breaks nearly all of them!

Apple could so easily have done this without upsetting people. If they had been open and said they needed to fork a new base version of the apps to ensure cross-platform compatibility, given it a new file type that didn't automatically overwrite the previous version (as MS did from .doc -> .docx) then they could have avoided all this grief.

As it is, they've just upset a huge number of users all over again, and shown absolutely no regard for the damage caused and the hassle and wasted time that users are now facing.

 

[*nix-fiend]

I wouldn't consider Steve to be your savior here.

Steve Jobs Once Considered Killing Apple's Pro Products

Yeah, but he probably considered homosexuality at some point in his life - doesn't mean he actually did it.

Just saying.

 

[imanidiot]

Pages is bad enough that I was forced to reinstall Pages '09 (which I had stupidly deleted when I "Upgraded"). Thank goodness I had the iWork'09 disc. Like others, I don't understand why Apple did this.
Oh, nevermind. Yes I do.

 

[Michael Goff]

Point taken, but I didn't mean literally four years in the making. The first three was in getting around to it. May at some point Apple will signal their direction on these apps, but if history is any guide, only if the stink gets big enough to be embarrassing.

Then let's continue to raise that stink.