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Something is Coming...
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Umm
I'm very happy to see the traffic on this thread and am looking forward to something big from WWDC (more than Panther)
I wanted to clear up a misconception though. Mac OS X Server is not hardware. It is the server version of Mac OS X. Apple announcing a new version of the software does not necessarily mean new xServes are forthcoming. Hopefully they are. Both the xServes and the Power Macs need new processors (the 970) and we should get them soon.
Also, I don't believe xServes are a major sale item at the Apple Store. You may be able to walk out with one but I doubt that happens very often. In other words, the infamous boxes probably don't have xServes in them.
OK carry on!
I'm very happy to see the traffic on this thread and am looking forward to something big from WWDC (more than Panther)
I wanted to clear up a misconception though. Mac OS X Server is not hardware. It is the server version of Mac OS X. Apple announcing a new version of the software does not necessarily mean new xServes are forthcoming. Hopefully they are. Both the xServes and the Power Macs need new processors (the 970) and we should get them soon.
Also, I don't believe xServes are a major sale item at the Apple Store. You may be able to walk out with one but I doubt that happens very often. In other words, the infamous boxes probably don't have xServes in them.
OK carry on!
Given Apple's hype for Monday (even ignoring the chatter on the rumor sites), I would not be surprised if Apple did a full 970 launch for the pro line: PowerBook, PowerMac, Xserve (and Xserve RAID).
If IBM and supporting factories can get the yields up, supporting G3, G4, and 970 would be a pain and confuse the consumer. Staying with one supplier (IBM) and dumping the G4 as fast as possible makes some sense.
Apple will then tout Panther and 970 together - the first consumer 64-bit package. Cocoa, carbon, UNIX/Xwindows, Java built-in and ready to go. Obligatory demos will be given.
No one will doubt that Apple has the (1) best hardware, (2) best operating system, (3) best user environment/experience, (4) best complete consumer package (iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes,...), (5) best package for creative professionals, (6) best development environment, (7) best solution for scientific research, (8) best visionaries, (9) best trend-line for improvement, and (10) and best solution for the foreseeable future.
Just in case I'm installing extra firewalls on my computer in case the 970's don't come out so I don't burn anyone with anger or have angry Apple hatemail fill Macrumors.
If Apple releases some wimpy speed bumped 1.6ghz G4, they will pi## alot of people off.
Keep all your fingers crossed
If Apple releases some wimpy speed bumped 1.6ghz G4, they will pi## alot of people off.
Keep all your fingers crossed
oxymoron - "64-bit consumer"
This is really funny - "64-bit consumer"!
What "consumer" needs 4 GiB or more of RAM? 64-bits isn't any faster or better than 32-bits, unless you've hit the "31-bit" wall of 2GiB of memory.
I can see the specs - "the first 64-bit consumer desktop, with 256MiB of RAM standard".
ROTFLMAO, CKASF
This is really funny - "64-bit consumer"!
What "consumer" needs 4 GiB or more of RAM? 64-bits isn't any faster or better than 32-bits, unless you've hit the "31-bit" wall of 2GiB of memory.
I can see the specs - "the first 64-bit consumer desktop, with 256MiB of RAM standard".
ROTFLMAO, CKASF
what will be?
My 2 cents:
Powerbook 15" Al will show but I think only the 17" will have the 970. Apple would never put a more powerful chip inside their midrange laptop. Just like the imac if you want superdrive you must go all the way.
I think the 17" will have that low wattage 1.2-1.4 Ghz 970 the 15" might stick with the g4 or 1.2 ghz 970. I really do not see the 12" having the 970(right now). Maybe bumped up to 1 ghz g4.
Powermacs have to have 970 across the board. my guess single 1.2-1.4 ghz low
1.6-8 mid and 1.8 dual high.
Maybe top of the line will not even need to be dual. If the 970 is at least twice as fast as the g4 plus 400mhz fsb.
The others (Imac Emac Ibook) Idont see them getting updated soon. I don't think they want to put those overclocked g4s in the more heat sensitive machines. I think the next revision will give them the low wattage laptop 970s for a complete lineup
-I
My 2 cents:
Powerbook 15" Al will show but I think only the 17" will have the 970. Apple would never put a more powerful chip inside their midrange laptop. Just like the imac if you want superdrive you must go all the way.
I think the 17" will have that low wattage 1.2-1.4 Ghz 970 the 15" might stick with the g4 or 1.2 ghz 970. I really do not see the 12" having the 970(right now). Maybe bumped up to 1 ghz g4.
Powermacs have to have 970 across the board. my guess single 1.2-1.4 ghz low
1.6-8 mid and 1.8 dual high.
Maybe top of the line will not even need to be dual. If the 970 is at least twice as fast as the g4 plus 400mhz fsb.
The others (Imac Emac Ibook) Idont see them getting updated soon. I don't think they want to put those overclocked g4s in the more heat sensitive machines. I think the next revision will give them the low wattage laptop 970s for a complete lineup
-I
lol!!! sorry - i just downloaded win98crash.mov just the other day... the one where bill gates is standing there, and the presenter is talking about how when he plugs in the new device, windows 98 will automatically recognize it and start talking to it... and it bluescreens!!!
lol!!!
i highly reccomend it for any mac person out there... again... win98crash.mov... just search for it in google...
matt
17" PB is a monster
Many people look at the 17" and simply say "that's too big".
The 17" isn't a laptop, it's a portable desktop. Great if that's what you need, questionable if you're going to carry the huge beast around every day.
Apple would be smart to put the 970 in all three...
. the 17" for the willy-wavers who want the biggest
. the 12" for people who want small size more than all the features
. the 15" for everyone else who has a fat checkbook
Many people look at the 17" and simply say "that's too big".
The 17" isn't a laptop, it's a portable desktop. Great if that's what you need, questionable if you're going to carry the huge beast around every day.
Apple would be smart to put the 970 in all three...
. the 17" for the willy-wavers who want the biggest
. the 12" for people who want small size more than all the features
. the 15" for everyone else who has a fat checkbook
Re: oxymoron - "64-bit consumer"
wasn't Bill Gates that said something like "no one will need more than 640Kb of ram"
I dont se any sense in what you said, 256MiB of RAM isn't enough! not of XP not of OS X you need at least 512MiB! saying that consumers dont need 64-bit processors is exactly like what billy said! it was a stupid statement at the time and it's even more stupid now! Apple has always done this kinda thing leading the pack with new tech, everything from using colours in the iMacs & dropping floppies! well thats no really tech to FireWire superdrives QE Gigabit ethernet and hopefully 64-bit for the masses! now every other companay is following...
my point is think of the future, and don't be stupid like billy... five years from now you can enjoy your 64-bit software on your five year old mac! then 10 years after that you might be using 128-bit computers...
THANK YOU & think of the future not the present
MaT
wasn't Bill Gates that said something like "no one will need more than 640Kb of ram"
I dont se any sense in what you said, 256MiB of RAM isn't enough! not of XP not of OS X you need at least 512MiB! saying that consumers dont need 64-bit processors is exactly like what billy said! it was a stupid statement at the time and it's even more stupid now! Apple has always done this kinda thing leading the pack with new tech, everything from using colours in the iMacs & dropping floppies! well thats no really tech to FireWire superdrives QE Gigabit ethernet and hopefully 64-bit for the masses! now every other companay is following...
my point is think of the future, and don't be stupid like billy... five years from now you can enjoy your 64-bit software on your five year old mac! then 10 years after that you might be using 128-bit computers...
THANK YOU & think of the future not the present
MaT
Re: Re: oxymoron - "64-bit consumer"
Thank Gord that fad is over (and don't even mention the toilet-seat Ibooks!)!!!
Your shrill post missed the point completely - unless you're putting more than 2 GiB of RAM in a system you're going to get little or no benefit from 64-bits!! It will be laughable if Apple puts up big "64-bit" posters, and underneath them sells 256MiB or 512MiB (or even 1024MiB) systems.
64-bits is not faster than 32-bits.
If the 970 shows up it will be good for Apple - if, as the rumours say, it's a lot faster than a G4. Good because it's fast, not because it can do 64-bit.
For anyone who has 2 GiB or less of RAM, 64-bits won't be a benefit - a 32-bit CPU will be just as good.
If Apple ships a 32-bit OS X on the 970 - this will prove my point beyond a shadow of a doubt!!!
What a bunch of willy-wavers!
Thank Gord that fad is over (and don't even mention the toilet-seat Ibooks!)!!!
Your shrill post missed the point completely - unless you're putting more than 2 GiB of RAM in a system you're going to get little or no benefit from 64-bits!! It will be laughable if Apple puts up big "64-bit" posters, and underneath them sells 256MiB or 512MiB (or even 1024MiB) systems.
64-bits is not faster than 32-bits.
If the 970 shows up it will be good for Apple - if, as the rumours say, it's a lot faster than a G4. Good because it's fast, not because it can do 64-bit.
For anyone who has 2 GiB or less of RAM, 64-bits won't be a benefit - a 32-bit CPU will be just as good.
If Apple ships a 32-bit OS X on the 970 - this will prove my point beyond a shadow of a doubt!!!
What a bunch of willy-wavers!
Amateurish predictions
Remember Le Good Ole Days when it wasnt just everybody making announcement predictions? Now it seems every person who picked up an iPod and a refurbished eMac because they made a wrong turn and wandered into an Apple Store can just stumble upon a forum and start spouting predictions befitting of Ms. Cleo's precognitive associates.
I remember when people didn't just take random guesses and clearly unconnected rumors and weave together a tapestry of disillusioned expectations from groundless optimism that flies in the face of the hallmarks of true rumor-mongering tradition.
For instance, the promotional price cuts and budgets, like those extended on the laptops currently, might indicate a clearing of inventory channels. But would that mean new laptops at the first big Mac event? No, of course not! Why you could easily look at the ending date and safely assume that was around the time Apple would debut new systems. Not in the middle of a promotion that would cut into the logic defying monkey-profit that results from the insane need for the newest hardware that plagues most Mac Cultists. Just a random example.
At least last traces of this once noble art are evident in places like MacRumor's Buyer's Guide which bases purchase recommendations on something relatively tried and true as product refresh cycles, not the fact that everyone on the internet wants one, some site says their coming, I think Apple owes me this, and Gosh darnit, wouldn't it just be cool?
Wow... I remember when this used to be fun.
-Truth Hz
Remember Le Good Ole Days when it wasnt just everybody making announcement predictions? Now it seems every person who picked up an iPod and a refurbished eMac because they made a wrong turn and wandered into an Apple Store can just stumble upon a forum and start spouting predictions befitting of Ms. Cleo's precognitive associates.
I remember when people didn't just take random guesses and clearly unconnected rumors and weave together a tapestry of disillusioned expectations from groundless optimism that flies in the face of the hallmarks of true rumor-mongering tradition.
For instance, the promotional price cuts and budgets, like those extended on the laptops currently, might indicate a clearing of inventory channels. But would that mean new laptops at the first big Mac event? No, of course not! Why you could easily look at the ending date and safely assume that was around the time Apple would debut new systems. Not in the middle of a promotion that would cut into the logic defying monkey-profit that results from the insane need for the newest hardware that plagues most Mac Cultists. Just a random example.
At least last traces of this once noble art are evident in places like MacRumor's Buyer's Guide which bases purchase recommendations on something relatively tried and true as product refresh cycles, not the fact that everyone on the internet wants one, some site says their coming, I think Apple owes me this, and Gosh darnit, wouldn't it just be cool?
Wow... I remember when this used to be fun.
-Truth Hz
Yeah, I think so too. I spent all night trying to get iSync to look like that but no luck. The only thing it does bear a resemblence to is the some of the user pages on the .mac site. They have those same Logout and Preferences on some pages but nothing like that, with bookmarks and stuff. Looks like something very very new.
Re: oxymoron - "64-bit consumer"
Read this. Then get back to us, 'k?
And BTW, think a second on how being able to take advantage of a quicker FSB will help as well.
Read this. Then get back to us, 'k?
And BTW, think a second on how being able to take advantage of a quicker FSB will help as well.
Re: Why germany?
You read it here first.
Andreas
(Insert irony tags where you think they belong).
Quite simple: SJ and the the whole Apple Crew disagree with the warmongering politics of the dubbya clan. They are therefore considering to relocate to Old Europe (TM).
You read it here first.
Andreas
(Insert irony tags where you think they belong).
Re: Re: Re: oxymoron - "64-bit consumer"
You seem to sufffer from the misconception that the only benefit a 64-bit CPU brings with it is the ability to address RAM from 4GB to 18Exabytes.
There are myriad other benefits, including much more efficient bus use, larger word size, and greater accuracy in mathematical computations.
This translates into increased performance, irrespective of bus speed (as compared to similarly-clocked 32-bit CPU architectures).
Being able to address memory above the 4GB "barrier" is the very least of the 64-bit benefits. Please educate yourself.
You seem to sufffer from the misconception that the only benefit a 64-bit CPU brings with it is the ability to address RAM from 4GB to 18Exabytes.
There are myriad other benefits, including much more efficient bus use, larger word size, and greater accuracy in mathematical computations.
This translates into increased performance, irrespective of bus speed (as compared to similarly-clocked 32-bit CPU architectures).
Being able to address memory above the 4GB "barrier" is the very least of the 64-bit benefits. Please educate yourself.
Prior Hints?
When reviewing a past press release, something strikes me as odd;
"expanded labs with the latest Mac systems where developers can port and test their code and get technical assistance from the Apple engineers directly responsible for the technologies"
Why would developers need to "port" code if the OS was not 64bit? What am I missing?
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/may/08wwdc.html
When reviewing a past press release, something strikes me as odd;
"expanded labs with the latest Mac systems where developers can port and test their code and get technical assistance from the Apple engineers directly responsible for the technologies"
Why would developers need to "port" code if the OS was not 64bit? What am I missing?
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/may/08wwdc.html
new xserve and Powermac
I agree with you but my filling is that we will get both new XServe and PowerMac. I mean get real all of you, even if you do not want to trust Macbidouille.com; IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ORDER A PowerMac in France in most of the big Apple resellers, and since last week-end it is the same for the Powerbook 15. so there is definitely something going on....
I would love to be next week.....
Eric
PS: regarding the invitation of Apple Germany, the correct translation is in the forum, and indeed the main point is SPEED.
I agree with you but my filling is that we will get both new XServe and PowerMac. I mean get real all of you, even if you do not want to trust Macbidouille.com; IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ORDER A PowerMac in France in most of the big Apple resellers, and since last week-end it is the same for the Powerbook 15. so there is definitely something going on....
I would love to be next week.....
Eric
PS: regarding the invitation of Apple Germany, the correct translation is in the forum, and indeed the main point is SPEED.
Hmmmm, felt good to read that. Seems like there's only one thing left for Apple to do: Convince some more people that this is the case.
Take care
We have to take this with more care.
Remember when they introduced the new iMac. Lot's of hype all around and finally almost everybody got furious with it. No PDA, no magic lamp and no inflatable Brithney Spears G4
And also remember that there was all this hype on their web page, and at the end nothing. So take this with care.
Maybe they will only introduce the iGore, an speaking robot with limited moves that wants to be president of the USA. lol
We have to take this with more care.
Remember when they introduced the new iMac. Lot's of hype all around and finally almost everybody got furious with it. No PDA, no magic lamp and no inflatable Brithney Spears G4
And also remember that there was all this hype on their web page, and at the end nothing. So take this with care.
Maybe they will only introduce the iGore, an speaking robot with limited moves that wants to be president of the USA. lol
Re: Re: Re: Re: oxymoron - "64-bit consumer"
64 bits computing has a few drawbacks: pointers get bigger (they will take more room in the L1 and L2 caches), context switchs will require more datas to be saved (again caches will take a hit), to achieve the same results as in 32 bits mode you may have to resort to precision reduction (this would increase the code size and could lead to slowdowns).
Memory transactions granularity on the bus is related to the cache-line size (32 bytes on most PowerPCs, 128 bytes on POWER 3-5), I do not see why having 64 bits registers would mean more efficient bus use.
Only a few specific apps can take advantage of the computation range offered by 64 bits registers, more of them gobble always more and more memory.
64 bits memory addressing is the most important benefit, any 32 bits CPU could do 64 bits math, it would only require more code and execution time.
64 bits computing has a few drawbacks: pointers get bigger (they will take more room in the L1 and L2 caches), context switchs will require more datas to be saved (again caches will take a hit), to achieve the same results as in 32 bits mode you may have to resort to precision reduction (this would increase the code size and could lead to slowdowns).
Memory transactions granularity on the bus is related to the cache-line size (32 bytes on most PowerPCs, 128 bytes on POWER 3-5), I do not see why having 64 bits registers would mean more efficient bus use.
Only a few specific apps can take advantage of the computation range offered by 64 bits registers, more of them gobble always more and more memory.
Re: oxymoron - "64-bit consumer"
Yeah, sure. Think ahead, man. But then, as Bill Gates once said "64K are enough for everybody". Apple is ahead of times, that's all.
Yeah, sure. Think ahead, man. But then, as Bill Gates once said "64K are enough for everybody". Apple is ahead of times, that's all.