Sonos Complains About Apple's Restrictions on Third-Party Siri Access in Antitrust Hearing

[Andregant]

I’m filing a lawsuit against McDonalds for not allowing me to choose 3rd party buns from Wendy’s. I know McDonald’s has their own buns but I want Wendy’s buns sandwiching my McDonalds burger patties. The lack of choice is negatively impact my consumer experience.

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

So in order to support this request you feel it is reasonable to require Apple to completely re-architect Siri, port the code from their neural engine implementation and figure out how to do this in a way that maintains privacy (despite it requiring that the voice itself be processed off the device, making it potentially subject to subpoena)? Just so I understand, since Apple would never use this service itself, I presume you would be OK with them charging these devices for all their development and operations costs?

What demands would Apple put on the device that would have anything to do with these requirements?

Since you seem not to understand, they are not sold out waiting for result, they are discontinued and no longer available. They sold out quickly when it was announced they were discontinued and many people who like them bought additional units.

In other words, this restriction cannot have anything to do with HomePod sales, as there will be no more HomePod sales, and this feature was not announced until well after they were almost complete sold out.

Without the background knowledge needed on your end (internet, web services and you 101) and your assertion that it’d take a significant amount of effort to do this, I can’t really explain this to you, but good luck in either educating yourself as to why that’s a ridiculous overestimate of effort or keep pasting the same stuff, I really don’t care either way

As for the rest, you know exactly what I meant for each point and instead of taking it at face value and trying to think outside the box a little, you’re trying to be all “what could you possibly mean by” and generally just being on apple’s side 10/10 times no matter what as per usual and that’s not a very productive use of my time. Best of luck with your future purchase decisions

 

[kyleh22]

What’s preventing Sonos from creating their own Smart Home platform?

Start up cost, ROI projections, and projected adoption rate. They simply wouldn't be able to to compete with Apple's, Amazon's, and google's already established platforms. Even Microsoft with their infinitely deep pockets couldn't get a foot hold in the market.

 

[chaicka]

What’s preventing Sonos from creating their own Smart Home platform?

If Sonos cannot even get the networking basics properly implemented so that it does not cause problems in most home networking (getting more complex than they used to), I do not hold faith they can even get smart home/home automation platform right that consumers would rush to have them.

Zigbee, Z-wave and HomeKit are pretty much the 3 mainstream platforms, along with others like KNX, etc more niche or in smaller markets than internationally widely adopted.

 

[chaicka]

If true, I do think it’s pretty weird that Apple is requiring a user to buy a HomePod to get Siri to work on 3rd party products. Alexa and Google Assistant don’t have such requirements—those voice assistants appear in many 3rd party products without any such strings attached. I really hope that Apple changes this policy. As long as it can be done without compromising security, Apple should license Siri to anyone willing to comply with their security protocols.

(I don’t know anything about how Amazon and Google license their voice assistants to third parties, but one possible explanation for the discrepancy between them and Apple might be that maybe they basically give their VA’s to manufactures for free in exchange for the data they collect? I’m guessing since that data isn’t valuable to Apple, perhaps they feel they don’t wanna give Siri away for free and this want to sell more hardware to justify? I’m admittedly grasping for straws, but I can’t think of any other reason for thier clunky proposed implementation.)

I believe what it needs is a HomeKit Hub which can be Apple TV or HomePod (though officially, iPad can be set as HomeKit Hub too but practically not a good choice unless constantly powered). So, no, it is not specifically HomePod is needed. It is a 'HomeKit Hub' that's required.

 

[Lemon Olive]

So everyone hates Siri but damned if they don’t want access to it.

To that point, I'm not even sure if I would want it if it were available.

I have a Home Pod mini in the kitchen which is reachable from the Living Room, and it serves as a Siri access point, and occasional use for music or timers.

In the living room is a fully Sonos system, which has Alexa. I kinda like it being separate so there is less conflict over what device is responding.

 

[Lemon Olive]

If Sonos cannot even get the networking basics properly implemented so that it does not cause problems in most home networking (getting more complex than they used to), I do not hold faith they can even get smart home/home automation platform right that consumers would rush to have them.

Zigbee, Z-wave and HomeKit are pretty much the 3 mainstream platforms, along with others like KNX, etc more niche or in smaller markets than internationally widely adopted.

Sonos works perfectly and requires no baby sitting at all after being setup properly. That is more than I can say for HomeKit "No Response" products.

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

Sonos works perfectly and requires no baby sitting at all after being setup properly. That is more than I can say for HomeKit "No Response" products.

To be fair the vast majority of no response issues with HomeKit are a user error. Most people don’t put in any effort when setting up their network.

I have probably 30+ smart devices hooked up to HomeKit and everything works all the time without a single outage, running on a Google wifi network.

HomeKit is something apple did very very right and I continue to be blown away on a daily basis that so much of my home can be controlled from my pocket with such impressive QoS

 

[wildlywicked]

Sonos, the same company that excludes Bluetooth from its current product lineup and forces you to use its own Sonos app just to play music? Look in the mirror before you accuse Apple of doing you dirty.

 

[Websnapx2]

I tried Apple Music for the first time in forever today and I was shook that you can’t pick Echos as a device, it only showed me my the Apple TV. Reason enough I went back to Spotify. I can’t be bothered to connect via Bluetooth just to listen to music from AM

So it's not a compatibility issue, it's a "you don't want to flip a switch" issue (required on so many other devices and ecosystems) so that's their fault? The quality of the service was dependant on its compatibility with one touch to a non-optimal speaker, rather than music selection, UI, and reliability?

I think you arrived at the conclusion you set out to find.

 

[Websnapx2]

Sonos, the same company that excludes Bluetooth from its current product lineup and forces you to use its own Sonos app just to play music? Look in the mirror before you accuse Apple of doing you dirty.

I have a Sonos One, that I play audio to from my podcast app, Apple music app, youtube app — I have not found one app I could not send audio to and I have never actually used their app for sending audio. Not sure where this info you are getting is coming from.

 

[ericwn]

Sonos doesn't like Apples restrictions on Siri why don't they create their own AI?

Yeah, and if you don’t like your iPhone, just build your own!
How dare you want to integrate with as many assistants as possible!

 

[MonkeyT]

So how many Apple product lines have the ability to run a HomeKit Hub, and are designed to never be moved from the home network? Two. That would be the HomePod/HomePod mini and the AppleTV. Imagine if wanted to use Siiri to change the thermostat, but the Hub was on my wife's iPad and she was out. Bear in mind that the AppleTV has no microphone to hear commands -- I seem to recall a LOT of fears (when the original AppleTV came out) that nobody wanted an always on mic on the device that let them watch television - which is why Siri is handled through the remote and requires a button.

Sonos wants the feature, but they are demanding that Apple build and sell some other device that is NOT a smart speaker to deliver it -- which would still require ALL the characteristics and mechanical parts of a smart speaker.

 

[ericwn]

What’s preventing Apple from building a home theater platform?

The huge success of the HomePod and iPod Hi-Fi probably.

 

[Websnapx2]

Even the absolute joke that is Amazon’s software team figured out how to implement Alexa into basically everything from smart speakers to cars to cameras etc etc. But apple can’t figure out some sort of integration? Not even through MFI?

I mean I can’t blame them, HomePods have been an abysmal commercial failure and they’ve got extra stock

Don't mistake won't for can't. It isn't that Apple is incapable of implementing Siri into everything — of course, they can — it's that Apple chooses not to because they want tight control over who has access to that data. It's why they want to route the voice processing for Siri on Sonos through a Homepod. It's their hardware controlling the data.

You are right that the Homepod has been a commercial failure, but only because they chose not to start with a cheap, tin-sounding speaker. As they are a hardware manufacturer, they thought it more important to focus on quality hardware, not cheap pricepoint just to get a service they can leverage in people's hands at the cost of a low-quality product.

Apple should have started with the Homepod Mini, called it the Homepod, then released the original Homepod second. It was a very good product, it just had a higher cost of entry than its competition.

 

[RedRage]

What ungrateful jerks. You know what Sonos, go make YOUR OWN iOS that has the audience that iOS has and then you won't need them

Everyone keeps saying "go make your own iOS" - what will you do when all the apps leave and all you have left is your calendar and stocks app? lol

 

[RedRage]

The walled garden team is out in force today. Having more options for equipment should be a good thing for use in a smart home product. Why on earth do you all want every product to be controlled by one company? Sonos speakers are legit, they work great (with Airplay 2 and others), offers support for google home and Alexa. They are a competitor keeping your HomePods on alert to do a good job or else. Now you all want Sonos to become their own platform? Just so that you guarantee that you can't use them with your iPhone? This is the strangest take I've seen on here in a while.

The Walled Garden folks who can't leave their home without Apple holding their hands.

 

[Lemon Olive]

To be fair the vast majority of no response issues with HomeKit are a user error.

They absolutely are not. This is by far the most false statement ever made about HomeKit. You don't sound like someone with much HomeKit experience.

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

They absolutely are not. This is by far the most false statement ever made about HomeKit. You don't sound like someone with much HomeKit experience.

I’ve been using 30+ devices on my network with HomeKit for years and have never _ever_ gotten a single delay or outage on any of my HomeKit devices. Can’t say the same for Nest, Ring, or Google Home.

You don’t sound like someone who set up their network properly.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I had sold all my Sonos the moment they moved to unsafe paths on purpose. Therefore, Sonos opinion is simply ridiculous. You can't go down a wrong path and then whine about not getting back together with Apple.

Hi. What was the unsafe path Sonos made that you’re referring to? I’ve not been keeping up with their business endeavours or practices, in fact what their speakers fully support or don’t is vague on their site.

 

[tranceme]

So everyone hates Siri but damned if they don’t want access to it.

So true. So true.

 

[One2Grift]

What’s preventing Apple from building a home theater platform?

That market is quite occupied. Big companies do try and fail to get into mature markets. It’s hard even for the Apples Googles Microsofts Facebooks etc etc. All of these companies have stockholders they report to. Failures are not looked upon kindly. These companies usually do have good market analytics and have a fair grasp of their chances to increase revenue/profit. If those chances don’t say good then they likely take a pass(and continue to watch the analytics to see if odds turn kite favorable).

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

Why should Sonos be able to demand that Apple's software (Siri) run on Sonos' hardware?

 

[crisss1205]

Sonos, the same company that excludes Bluetooth from its current product lineup and forces you to use its own Sonos app just to play music? Look in the mirror before you accuse Apple of doing you dirty.

Both the Sonos Roam and the Sonos Move have bluetooth and AirPlay. All Sonos speakers support AirPlay and Google Cast. No need to use the Sonos app.

There are many different versions of Siri and only the version in the HomePod/HomePod Mini is designed to work without a screen. The others often respond by displaying text on the screen.

That doesn't make sense at all. Like not one bit. They can make Siri respond without a display like they do on iOS with AirPods.

 

[One2Grift]

That doesn't make sense at all. Like not one bit. They can make Siri respond without a display like they do on iOS with AirPods.

You don’t know what they “can” do unless you are on the product dev team. Regardless, what you’re actually saying is what they must do. Yet In a odd bit of business acumen, anti-Apple people taking to Apple boards to post how much Apple must change/be like their competitor is unlikely to be listened to by any Apple product dev or management team.

Apple likely passes up very considerable amounts of business to keep their engineering loop/eco the way they think is best for their users. That means very considerably less integration to the numerous third party products that the competition does frequently integrate with. So there is everybody’s choice. Yet for whatever reason, for a small slice of the competition’s user base, they just can’t live with the fairly contrasting choice in platforms. Hey, whatever gets you through the day. But at the end of that day the glee you feel because a third party files a lawsuit — then bashes Apple as an aside —is fleeting. Apple won’t be changing products or adding Siri (or anything else) because it makes you/Sonos happy.