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Sony Halting Clie PDA sales in U.S.

wrldwzrd89 said:
You make a good point - but all that means is that the primary users of PDAs have changed. Before, personal use dominated the PDA market, and corporate use was minimal. Now, corporations are using PDAs more and more, and personal use of PDAs is slowly dying off.
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I disagree about the corporate use. I've been in corporate IT for about 10 years and I've seen PDA usage hit its peak (Palm V and then first Compaq iPAQ) and now it is definetly on the decline. I see so many brand new shiny HP iPAQs sitting in the cradle while their owner is off in some meeting. It's a terrible waste of money. Most people buy them just because they can--it's the corporations money--but they don't use them at all.

PDAs have always been for gadget freaks. Most people love paper day planners and the PHONE. Most people only want to carry one device. You can not under estimate the importance of that. The world has decided that they like to carry a cell phone so the PDA is gone. Most people are fine with printing out their agenda from Outlook as long as they have their cell phone at their side.

I love PDAs, I own a Clie TJ25 and I'd love to get a TH55 but I've known for a long time that PDAs are a niche and that niche will get smaller and smaller. Smartphone/mobile communicator is the next big thing.
 
I think this is further proof that the demand for PDA's is nowhere near what it used to be due in part to a definite trend towards smart phones that incorporate PDA functionality and the increasing popularity of notebook computers. I've owned several different PDA's over the past five years - a mixture of Palm & Pocket PC's - and IMO I found them to be a nice gadget/toy, but not much more than that. I realize not all consumers have the same needs, but I just can't see the point of spending in upwards of $400-600 on a PDA when you can accomplish nearly the same thing with your cell phone, and you only have to carry around one device. The last PDA I owned was a $699 HP iPaq Pocket PC, and I ended up ebaying it, and using the proceeds to purchase an iBook. THE BEST DECISION I HAVE EVER MADE! I have since gone back to using my trusty old Palm V. Sure it lacks alot of the bells and whistles of newer PDA's on the market, but in the end I found all I ever used my PDA for was to manage my contacts, to-do lists, and schedule. Just my two cents.
 
howard said:
i think they are going about them all wrong, pda's need to simplify. they don't need digital camera's they don't even need gobs of memory to put music or videos on. they should replace the memo pad, in which what they do need is good screens, good text recognition. good organized contact and memo and draw functions.

all that other crap i doubt people use all the much and drives up the cost, and if they do sell...well theres always the more expensive ones...but don't sacrafice key software that you need on the entry level ones
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HP makes a nice line of PDAs, I have an iPAQ 5450. The whole line of iPAQs are very good, what they need is like a combination of a PDA and blackberry devices, there recently was an article in the New York Times, on May 30 about the widespread use of blackberry devices.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/30/fashion/30BLAC.html

They don't need the complexities of having a camera on a PDA, and other features that most people will not use. A blackberry that has more of an iPAQ look could be more dominant in the PDA world.
 
Swinny said:
Proof perhaps thats Jobs has been right all along that PDAs are a dying market...The closest I suspect Apple will get to releasing a PDA again is adding some basic data-entry capablilities to future iPods (and/or Bluetooth for direct linking with phones).
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Whatever. And Jobs knows every market on the planet. :rolleyes: The fact of the matter is Sony is a Multimedia company. And Sony had to shoehorn multimedia into the POS. I still remember the direct quote from Palm's CEO back at CES 2001. Something to the tone of "Users don't need or want color or sound" Ya whatever.

The only reasons why PDA sales are slipping is two fold. #1. Lack of reason to upgrade. Unlike computers that come out with a new model every 6 months and basically become obsolete after an 18-24 month timeframe (Note: Obsolete but still usable.) an original PDA from 1995 still does exactly what it did back then. Keep your PIM items. On the Pocket PC side where multimedia content is a HELL of a lot more richer I have two systems. An old first gen iPaq that came out in 2000 that still runs just about every app on the market and a HP Jornada that came out in 2002 that DOES run every app on the market. I've been looking at upgrading but really when I look at the current state of PDA's (Now that Sony has bowed out I won't consider Palm.) the only big diff I see is added BlueTooth, WIFI, slightly better screen, more memory (Something I already get through my 512MB CF card and 1GB microdrive.) and some smaller devices. Nice features to be sure but not a MAJOR incentive to upgrade. New innovative PDA types are needed. Innovation both in form factor and features. If you look at Pocket PC's that were released in 2003 and those that were released in 2004 the systems themselves are nearly identical. Same amount of RAM (typically 64MB) Same CPU. Same wireless features. There is no compelling reason for a PDA user to upgrade. PDA's aren't dieing out. Its simply that users have no reason to go out and spend anywhere from $200-$600 bucks on a nearly identical model.
With that being said. I do think we are about to see some sweat things come from the PDA market in the near future. Microsoft has released Pocket PC 2003SE to the OEMs literally weeks ago and POS cobalt is FINALLY in the hands of OEM's (Pitty the only company who can really use some of its more advanced features is leaving the fold.) The biggest change with Pocket PC 2003SE is VGA support, dynamic on the fly screen rotation, and a wide array of screen sizes and resolutions. The underlying API for 2003SE also have been tweaked to support those screen resolutions and sizes. So software developers no longer have to code for devices that are QVGA vs. VGA. The app will be aware of the rez and the screen orientation and tweak itself. VGA doesn't sound like a big deal but the one device I HAVE seen that has this implemented and the display is sexy as hell.

And before someone complains about how tiny the icons will be MS has worked that out. There is a slider bar for the system font to allow the user to select how big or small the font will be. On top of that dialog boxes and older apps use a pixel doubling method to keep your system menus, taskbar, and older apps normal size without you needing to squint.

#2 is downturn in the economy. People are still being fickle about what they spend their money on. People aren't going to go out and drop 200-600 once every 2 years. PDA upgrades are pricy and this ties in with #1 quite well.

This is a major technology that is showing up in PDA's and I can guarantee you that it WILL drive sales but OEM's can NOT remain stagnant. They must continue to give the consumer incentive to upgrade above and beyond this years model. Long term what other tech can we expect? OLED displays, fuel cell batts, 802.11G WIFI. But I think the ultimate goal for MS is going to get Windows XP in a device this small. Its too early for that right now but we ARE getting close and when that happens the PDA market isn't so much going to die as its going to morph/merge with the tablet market. When its all said and done that’s what a Palm and Pocket PC really is: A Tablet Computer. At some point these devices are going to be powerful enough to run Windows, Linux, OS X without breaking a sweat and at that point the Palm OS and Pocket PC OS (i.e. Windows CE 4.25) will die. Here is the beautiful thing. CE that OS that the Pocket PC runs on. Its API's are compatible with Windows XP embedded so MS has looked ahead far enough to possibly make some backwards compatibility possible.

This is obviously my personal opinion but I think in the future there are going to be 4 options when it comes to computers:
Desktop, Laptop, Tablet PC (In convertible and slate forms.), and ultraportable. (The grandson of the current Pocket PC/Palm)
 
Oh one other note. Keep in mind the size of Sony. The new PSP (Playstation Portable.) that is coming out is going to meet their multimedia needs better then any Clie ever could. I'm wondering if the decision came down that the PSP takes priority over the Clie.
 
For me

For me, a nicer iPod would kill any need in me for a Clie.

This is all about my iPod... that is, the theoretical iPod Apple will make just for me. Many of you might disagree. For starters, I don't really care if it becomes PDA-like. I have a cell phone that keeps all my phone numbers. There is nothing cool or impressive about a PDA. Again, this is just me. I don't consider tips or taxes to be complex mathematical structures with which this ingenious device - which remains not much larger than an ordinary calculator - will wow me in it's capabilities. Truth is, any grown human being should be able to figure out sales tax in their head faster than one can find the app for it on a Clie. A tip should be based on feelings of satisfaction and gratitude, rather than the solution to a mathematical equasion. Now if a Clie could FORECAST the weather, that would be something. That is processing power. However, being able to display the forecast is not all that impressive, and I would only need to check it once a day, on my laptop or desktop would be fine. And I'll leave my persistent need for the knowledge of the world's tides alone... at least until the day after tomorrow.

Nevertheless, I would be exited to see some PDA functions make it to the iPod. Data entry would be cool. No, I don't have forty-eight meetings a day to keep track of. I don't pencil in beer with Andy for eight and, far from my laptop, suddenly realize that I can't make it until nine, panic under the notion that the time my iPod displays will not be the time I arrive, collapse, die, and leave stipulated in my eWill that my schedule must be updated to notify me of my funeral engagement. No, I just want to be able to make playlists. A stylus/touch-screen would make this supremely easy. However, there would have to be a hardware hold button for the screen for this to be less than the most annoying feature in the world. Also, it would be nice if the screen didn't shatter fifteen times a day like all my useless Palms have. iPods have been, so far, unbelievably rugged.

A color screen would be nice. Even if it didn't really do anything at all; even if there was no advantage to it whatsoever (much like the Palm IIIC), color screens are just cooler. And we get into photos. Photos are alright. I have been known to snap a few quickies with my camera phone when something absolutely calls for it. I have a picture of a train on fire, for example. Setting that as the background to my ipod might be fun for a little while. It would be a convenient way to show the picture to my friends (who won't believe that I saw a burning train). That would work every once in a while. I have a hidden reason, though, for wanting a color screen. It isn't pictures or backgrounds or cool factor... it's album art. I want it to show up right on the display.

WiFi would be cool. A sync on range feature (only from the iPod's registered computer, of course) would be nice. And, while we are doing that and the text input thing, let's give everyone another way to check their email and browse the web, while simultaneously providing the only reasonably useful service that a Clie offers. I'm all for that, even thought it is getting to be a task to check my email on five different devices.

This 'my ipod' would certainly be welcome over my current ipod. With these advances, my ipod would certainly overshadow the two Sony Clies that were given to me last year as gifts, for which I could never find a good reason to even carry (despite their light weight and nifty design). Of course, if Sony just slapped a 20 gig drive in one of those, they just might have had something there. But they would have ruined it by not supporting MP3's.
 
Frankly PDAs have always felt to me like they're leading onto something else. Pioneering technology for another phase.

Thats increasingly becoming apparent as Smart Phones. There are 10 million PDA users worldwide I believe, whereas the amount of mobile users is 100 million at the smallest of estimates.

Most people I know use their mobile in some PDAish way, yes you do get people who just use it for calls, but most use cameras, or memos, or alarms, or mp3 players, or video players etc.

With the rise of Symbian OS, and the fact there is now a Mobile version of Pocket Windows, with a smart phone version of Palm OS 6 on the way I think this is definitely THE growth area.
 
Jobs did call it ... PDA's wouldn't be a good market to get into. So good thing Jobs didn't get pressured by a few people to make or revive the newton.

I hope the new iPod will have more PDA like features.
 
iPhone

I just bought a Sony Ericsson P900, and while it's easliy the best, coolest smart phone out there, it's not an iPhone, ya know? I would LOVE an Apple smart phone. I think millions of other gadget freaks would as well, especially in the EU. They're crazy for gadgets over there. PDAs are slowly but surely dying because, really, who wants to drag around an iPod, a phone AND a Palm Pilot? I don't have enough pockets for that crap and I don't want to have to carry a man-purse.

Apple, where's my iPhone/iPod hybrid???

mudflapper
 
It's the OS, stupid...

I'm surprised Mac users don't get it... it's the PALM OS that makes it what it is. I don't want to use a Pocket PC (clunky and unintuitive), or iPod (limited features and difficult navigation) or a Phone with PDA capabilities (again, clunky and unintuitive OS). I want the Palm OS, just as I want the Mac OS.

Now, I have no problems with Palms and cell phones converging, in fact my next Palm will probably be a Treo. But a cell phone with a few PDA features just isn't going to cut it in my book.

Handheld computers definately have a future.... Jobs and the rest of you are shortsighted if you can't see this.
 
BrianKonarsMac said:
the reason the clie's didn't sell well (IMO) are because they are so restrictive. you have to use Sony formatted files, otherwise it doesn't work, and you need to submit to their DRM which is quite restrictive.
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Sorry, but that's simply untrue. Regardless of platform, you have an option on all audio-playback capable CLIEs of using MP3s. I happen to know for a fact that 128 bit and up, with any MP3 app's DRM shut off, using either the "stereo" or "joint stereo" option will produce perfectly acceptable results.

Assuming you buy Mark|Space's Missing Sync software (which gives drivers and conduits), you also get support for iTunes, and when attached and in "Memory Stick Transfer Mode" via either the audio player or MS Export / Data Export, you can do this directly from iTunes. You can't use Apple's DRM files on a CLIE, of course.

Guess this is all a bit academic now though, isn't it?

Mike
 
PDAs are dead, long live the smartphone! (Symbian, the only one that really matters these days :D )
Macrumors said:
Sony announced that they would no longer be releasing new Clie models in the U.S. market.



Sony will reportedly continue sales in Japan at this time. Analysts suspect that the Clie division was a "money-losing business".

Rumors and speculation have long called for Apple to renter the PDA market, but with few recent leads on this popular topic.
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Why Sony?

Well Sony will be missed since they do seem to have a really good line up of PDA's. Granted most people don't need a pda, but I'm 3 months from finishing dental school and my pda is indispensable. It's great I have all my patients information on it that I just would not be able to have on a paper agenda. Again most people really don't need them though a Zire wouldn't hurt someone to be a bit more organized. As much as I love my iPod especially since I'm a HUGE music freak and I use it to relax before I start working on a patient or pump me up for a surgery, it will be left behind before my T3. Yes I have a palm, but Sony help them push things along since they were falling behind Pocket PC.
 
Macrumors said:
Sony announced that they would no longer be releasing new Clie models in the U.S. market...Rumors and speculation have long called for Apple to renter the PDA market, but with few recent leads on this popular topic.
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come on?! why on earth would apple jump into the pda market when there isn't one there, look at sony. hold the flame throwers my pda-luvin friends. if apple wants to incorporate certain features of a pda into say something like an ipod with a color screen, then that makes some sense. the pda as we know it is going away, but will be around in some form and right now that looks to be incorporated in cell phones.
 
Your company doesn't set treads!

The company I work for, all support people and others get Black Berrys. These are more like smartphones - they have PDA functionality with, some high end models - cell phone capability.

Smartphones can do any thing your palm can do or any PDA - in your list of points, and aren't more expensive that then very high end PDAs. Symbian phones - i.e, p900 can be connected to GPS devices too (via Blue Tooth)



Torajima said:
<snip>

Oh please.... PDAs are NOT dying out. Half the people at my company use them, and more are buying them every day.

I'm glad the iPod has an address book and can store simple notes, but it will never replace my Palm... even if Apple added input capability.

Most people don't seem to realize just how powerful (and how useful) PDAs are these days. My Palm has a faster processor than my G3 tower. It's no longer a simple address book and daily planner... it is my handheld "laptop replacement". With the exception of video editing and serious graphic work, I can do most anything on my Palm that you can do on a laptop.

Some things I use my Palm for:

1. Read, and more importantly, create word and excel documents.
2. Read other doc files, including plain text, html, pdf, and palmdoc.
3. Surf the web and check my email.
4. As a calculator, both for simple math and to calculate mortgages, sales tax, tips, and even for currency exchange.
5. View the weather forecast for every major city in the world.
6. Check the tides for every coastal town in North America.
7. To handle all my finances.
8. To create and store databases.
9. To store maps of my entire state.
10. To view family photos.
11. To play games
12. And of course, to store addresses and to plan my daily schedule.

You can also play videos, use it as a simple midi scratchpad, connect it to a GPS, etc.

The point is, the iPod won't be replacing the PDA anytime soon. And I'm sad to see Sony go... they added some much needed innovation to the market. I suspect someone is going to make a killing importing Clie's from Japan now...
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ccuilla said:
This article has more information: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-06-01-pda_x.htm

Has some additional comments and details from analysts. It is not just Sony...it is the market. I guess that Steve was right.
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Nope he just doesn't want to get into another market so what does someone with an ego the size of San Fran do?

The industry is irrelevant. Its a stupid industry. Its going to go belly up. And you know what? In a couple years....he will be wrong.
 
Stella said:
Your company doesn't set treads!

The company I work for, all support people and others get Black Berrys. These are more like smartphones - they have PDA functionality with, some high end models - cell phone capability.

Smartphones can do any thing your palm can do or any PDA - in your list of points, and aren't more expensive that then very high end PDAs. Symbian phones - i.e, p900 can be connected to GPS devices too (via Blue Tooth)
Click to expand...

With one big diff. You get some dinky 1"-2" screen to do that all on. Thanks but at minimum I'll take a 3"-4" screen for data input. Smartphones SUCK when it comes to data input. And I'm sorry but BB's ARE NOTHING remotely like Palm's or Pocket PC's. I could rattle off a list of various reasons but I'll leave it at this. They do PIM, mail, and phone very well and that is it.
 
If Apple ever decides to give iPods some PDA functions, it means they have completely lost the plot on the issue.

Make a phone/PDA, like the Palm-Handspring Treo 600, that happens to run a special version of Mac OS10, and I'd buy one. If it happens to double as a flash memory mp3 player, then even better, but it doesn't have to be an iPod derivative whatsoever.
 
This is where the future of PDA's is going.............

image-149758-1706.jpg
 
Voice Rec Addy Entry Good

iMan said:
And the interesting thing is voice recognition software - that automatically changes the recorded voice to an entry... this is not too far off I believe. I know that this is currently beeing tested for doctors journaling - like they just speak the diagnosis, and the system converts it to a written report (you all know how doctors write don't you :) )

THAT would be a killer!
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Right on! There are plenty of voice-rec products out now that do quite well with a limited target set. Like those wonderful phone "support" lines that say things like, "To access another annoying voice menu, say 'one' now."

0 and A ai said:
Processing power says no
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Not a problem for stuff like addresses: there's no need to do the analysis in real-time. You could record your entry (in the worst case, spelling each word out) and when you're done, the iPod chugs away in the background doing the conversion.

Even if it takes fifteen minutes, it's no biggie. You're not likely to need to call the entry back up that quickly; if you do, you listen to the audio version.

When the iPod finishes, it PINGS, and shows you the conversion for confirmation. You then use the scroll wheel to fix any typos.

Would be pretty slick (and tie in with Apple's current voice-accessibility push).
 
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