SiliconAddict said:
It only took an hour for me to figure out how to connect our Palms to our wireless network.... took months to figure out how to connect the Pocket PCs. Sounds pretty damn unintuitive to me....
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Sony Halting Clie PDA sales in U.S.
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It only took an hour for me to figure out how to connect our Palms to our wireless network.... took months to figure out how to connect the Pocket PCs. Sounds pretty damn unintuitive to me....
sigamy said:
I would disagree with this. We rely heavily on Palms at our shop. All of the financial reps in the field need Palms to sync with Siebel so they have all their contact info readily available when out on sales.
There are also a lot of us here in the IT department that use PDAs on a daily basis. It's nice to be able to sync to our enterprise scheduler so we know when and where our meetings are.
I've owned about 12 different PDAs in a search to find the perfect one for my needs. So far, none really make the cut. I just sold my Clie UX-50 and while it was a nice PDA, it had several really annoying problems. First, it's too damn proprietary. Only Sony products use memory sticks AFAIK and Sony insists on using a different sync protocol (requiring Missing Sync on the Mac), a slightly different Palm Desktop, etc. etc. Movie files needed to be named according to a certain nomenclature and placed in a certain directory in order to be viewed. So, downloading MPEGs on the web was worthless unless you either wanted to view them immediately or rename and move them later.
Right now, I'm using a Sharp SL-C760. The PIM apps are garbage and it won't sync to a Mac. But, it's very powerful, great for network troubleshooting, web browsing, email, and developing little applications.
I'm really hoping Apple comes out with a similar clamshell-type PDA with a mini-iPod HDD and firewire/USB ports. I'd hope it'd run some small version of Darwin/OSX with pocket versions of iPhoto & iMovie (for downloading digital camera and camcorder content and previewing it), iTunes (with the ability to wirelessly connect to another iTunes server), addressbook/calendar/todo, Quicktime, and a terminal app (for hacking). I would find such a device extremely useful as it would replace my PDA and iPod and provide more functioinality than both combined.
I also disagree with smartphones totally replacing the PDA. Personally, I prefer to keep the two separate and use bluetooth to connect them. That way, I can get a great phone and a great PDA and not be saddled with a mediocre smartphone. Also, I don't always need a full smartphone with me and such a device would probably have too small of a screen to be useful for playing multimedia content or web browsing... plus, where are you going to put the thumb keyboard???
dongmin
macrumors 68000
No way that you can do sophisticated voice recognition on an iPod. Even modern-day PCs with fast CPUs and hard drives have hard enough time doing it. But you guys are missing the point. The iPod doesn't need to do the processing. All it needs to do is simply store. When you go back home to your home PC and sync your iPod, the PC automatically coverts the AIFFs into text.RogerQ said:
Another possibility is to do address-swapping via Bluetooth. This is not a new idea but no one has really made it work yet. But if anyone knows how to connect devices and make them sync hassle-free it's Apple.
The last possibility is to use add-ons like a Bluetooth optical pen (example 1, example 2). You can keep the pen next to the iPod in the iPod case. When you turn on the pen, the iPod (via Bluetooth) detects the pen and goes into "pixel-write" mode. After you write your note, you hit on a button on the iPod and boom it stores it as a PICT file that later will be converted through Inkwell on your home computer.
jiggie2g
macrumors 6502
Palm is DEAD
While i'm glad to see Sony fall Victim to thier own Stupidity and incompitence. it will be sad to see Palm slowy fade away and Die , because i did like that Palm OS , however Pocket PC is gaining momentum in a big way. if any one has seen those new Dell X30's or an HP iPaq 4355 they will know what i am talking about. Pocket PC's are as of now just the better product for the Money , they are faster than many old PC's now at 624mhz and can be over clocked well prob see some OC'd at over 800mhz. and i'm sure well see a 1Ghz PDA by Next year with intergrated ATI or Invidia chips.
I believe the PDA market has still has room to grow by evolving into a sort of Mini Note Book Replacement as size is a factor this is why the Tablet PC failed miserably. the PDA will become what the Tablet PC was supposed to be.
By the Spring time next year we will have PDA's with standard VGA screens, 1 in or .85in Hard Drives in the 2 or 4 GB size maybe larger, sliding keyboards. Wi-Fi & BT and maybe even 1 mega Pix cameras. i would gladly pay $499 for something like that.
Palm= Fancy Organizer / Pocket PC= Mini NoteBook ,that how i see it.
While i'm glad to see Sony fall Victim to thier own Stupidity and incompitence. it will be sad to see Palm slowy fade away and Die , because i did like that Palm OS , however Pocket PC is gaining momentum in a big way. if any one has seen those new Dell X30's or an HP iPaq 4355 they will know what i am talking about. Pocket PC's are as of now just the better product for the Money , they are faster than many old PC's now at 624mhz and can be over clocked well prob see some OC'd at over 800mhz. and i'm sure well see a 1Ghz PDA by Next year with intergrated ATI or Invidia chips.
I believe the PDA market has still has room to grow by evolving into a sort of Mini Note Book Replacement as size is a factor this is why the Tablet PC failed miserably. the PDA will become what the Tablet PC was supposed to be.
By the Spring time next year we will have PDA's with standard VGA screens, 1 in or .85in Hard Drives in the 2 or 4 GB size maybe larger, sliding keyboards. Wi-Fi & BT and maybe even 1 mega Pix cameras. i would gladly pay $499 for something like that.
Palm= Fancy Organizer / Pocket PC= Mini NoteBook ,that how i see it.
jiggie2g said:
Those new Dells are awsome!
624mhz, built in wireless 802.11b, bluetooth, 64 mb ram/rom, the dang processor is able to scale its mhz!
all for only $350!!!
craziness!
The Digital Decade
I work for LondonDrugs in Canada we sell more and more pda each day it's now a requirement for many classes at UBC and SFU and many other schools so in no way is the PDA out, the two major competitors in the market now are Blackberries and Palm, Palm has an awesome PDA it is great for memos and everyday things, sony is doing down because they tried to make it into an entertainment device and it was just too costly the Blackberry has one major future the ability to get e-mail and act as a pager anywhere your cell can go, and now it's a cell too, but it lacks the ability Palm has to for data input, if apple were to make a PDA they would have to make two models one with a cellular technology in it to go up against the Blackberry and then one without for a people that don't need it, BUT it should be upgradable to it in a later date apple already has the os for a great PDA the screen should be as big as the tungsten T3 but no bigger.
i hope apple gets the picture that people would buy a PDA from them if they do it right 😀
I work for LondonDrugs in Canada we sell more and more pda each day it's now a requirement for many classes at UBC and SFU and many other schools so in no way is the PDA out, the two major competitors in the market now are Blackberries and Palm, Palm has an awesome PDA it is great for memos and everyday things, sony is doing down because they tried to make it into an entertainment device and it was just too costly the Blackberry has one major future the ability to get e-mail and act as a pager anywhere your cell can go, and now it's a cell too, but it lacks the ability Palm has to for data input, if apple were to make a PDA they would have to make two models one with a cellular technology in it to go up against the Blackberry and then one without for a people that don't need it, BUT it should be upgradable to it in a later date apple already has the os for a great PDA the screen should be as big as the tungsten T3 but no bigger.
i hope apple gets the picture that people would buy a PDA from them if they do it right 😀
Stella
macrumors G3
SiliconAddict said:
we will have to disagree - i find data input on a P900 is of no problem with its screen. When it comes to word processing, I wouldn't use a Palm for that either ( see Psion 5 below)..
smartphones do most thigns everything well - especially symbian - games, email, PIM, notes, music... I like the ability to only have 1 thing to carry about - instead of a phone + PDA.
i still miss my Psion 5 - a perfect PDA - with a very good keyboard. I could do word processing stuff on that thing no problem... alias.. those days are gone. Shame Psion gave up....
Converge Now or Die (in terms of marketing)
My gut feelings tell me that the PDA/Cellphone/MP3 player/Smart Phone technologies are on such a fast technological collision course that such a company as Apple will probably think/design WAY, WAY outside of the box so much so that we might end up with a very interesting product in the end...
Should be interesting, to say the least.
My gut feelings tell me that the PDA/Cellphone/MP3 player/Smart Phone technologies are on such a fast technological collision course that such a company as Apple will probably think/design WAY, WAY outside of the box so much so that we might end up with a very interesting product in the end...
Should be interesting, to say the least.
BobVB
macrumors 6502a
PDA market just doesn't understand...
... they started out so well, a way to have a data device with you at all times so you only have to enter data ONCE and have all your essential data with you. The entry method was perfect - you could write it, and you didn't have to look at the entry device once you became proficient with Grafitti.
I thought they would improve the technology, but they only left behind all the reasons it worked - the only improvement over the basic PDA would be a PDA phone, but Treo replaced Grafitti with tiny keyboards that only insure you will NEVER be able to enter data without looking at the device. Palm stop developing working Mac syncing tools (I've had to retire my Palm because their software will no longer support the serial models) and the current palms are over priced and don't have any essential features that the original models had. I don't need color, I don't need cameras, I don't need movies!
The PDA market has died because they are providing products no one wants or needs. Give us a cell phone with bluetooth and graphical data entry - That is a tool we could actually use.
Voice memos? Please! Like I'm going to transcribe voice memos when I get back to my computer... Scroll wheel entry? Why not just shove bamboo shoots under my fingernails while you're at it. 😉
... they started out so well, a way to have a data device with you at all times so you only have to enter data ONCE and have all your essential data with you. The entry method was perfect - you could write it, and you didn't have to look at the entry device once you became proficient with Grafitti.
I thought they would improve the technology, but they only left behind all the reasons it worked - the only improvement over the basic PDA would be a PDA phone, but Treo replaced Grafitti with tiny keyboards that only insure you will NEVER be able to enter data without looking at the device. Palm stop developing working Mac syncing tools (I've had to retire my Palm because their software will no longer support the serial models) and the current palms are over priced and don't have any essential features that the original models had. I don't need color, I don't need cameras, I don't need movies!
The PDA market has died because they are providing products no one wants or needs. Give us a cell phone with bluetooth and graphical data entry - That is a tool we could actually use.
Voice memos? Please! Like I'm going to transcribe voice memos when I get back to my computer... Scroll wheel entry? Why not just shove bamboo shoots under my fingernails while you're at it. 😉
The PDA is certainly not dead. As a physician, it's an absolutely essential part of my work. Vindigo (www.vindigo.com) has become a big part of my non-work life. Visiting a new city, want to know what's going on tonight, and how to get there? Check Vindigo.
Sony's getting out of the market (and Apple staying out) because there's alot of players and downward pressure on prices. And, in my opinion, because they've ignored what most people want - a smaller, simpler device with more memory & better handwriting recognition. Instead, companies have focused on cramming more devices into one. Combo devices tend to work less well than dedicated devices, and also tend to be larger. I have a clie, but never use the mp3/video features. I certainly didn't want a camera or phone to be built in. The reason phone/pda's don't work so well is that the screen size needed to make a functional PDA is too big to work as a phone. An ideal PDA maximizes height & width (to the max that will fit in a shirt pocket) while minimizing depth. An ideal phone has minimal width (& to some extent height) while requiring some depth to fit nicely in a hand.
Sony's getting out of the market (and Apple staying out) because there's alot of players and downward pressure on prices. And, in my opinion, because they've ignored what most people want - a smaller, simpler device with more memory & better handwriting recognition. Instead, companies have focused on cramming more devices into one. Combo devices tend to work less well than dedicated devices, and also tend to be larger. I have a clie, but never use the mp3/video features. I certainly didn't want a camera or phone to be built in. The reason phone/pda's don't work so well is that the screen size needed to make a functional PDA is too big to work as a phone. An ideal PDA maximizes height & width (to the max that will fit in a shirt pocket) while minimizing depth. An ideal phone has minimal width (& to some extent height) while requiring some depth to fit nicely in a hand.
Sony saw the competition
Maybe Sony knows something ELSE about the US market... maybe they saw a prototype out of Apple and decided that there was no point in competing here.
They're still selling the Clie's in Japan, for now. Considering the lagtime in getting mini iPods to overseas markets, maybe they figure they've got a year or so of sales on the Clie before the Apple competition hits.
Maybe Sony knows something ELSE about the US market... maybe they saw a prototype out of Apple and decided that there was no point in competing here.
They're still selling the Clie's in Japan, for now. Considering the lagtime in getting mini iPods to overseas markets, maybe they figure they've got a year or so of sales on the Clie before the Apple competition hits.
iChan
macrumors 6502a
the market price of palmsource dropped by a massive 17% on trading as a result of this news. I wonder if it is possible that sony planned for this to happen so they can buy Palm source?
it's not as implausible as it sounds. As Sony CEO Nobuyuki Idea stated not so long ago that sony would be interesting in purchasing Palmsource.
the interview was conducted at Alwayson.com
there is an interesting article right here...
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5078
Sony in fact owns 6% of Palm Source.
Sony needs an operating system of their own. maybe palm is the way to go?? with more funding, it could develop into a world class OS
it's not as implausible as it sounds. As Sony CEO Nobuyuki Idea stated not so long ago that sony would be interesting in purchasing Palmsource.
the interview was conducted at Alwayson.com
there is an interesting article right here...
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5078
Sony in fact owns 6% of Palm Source.
Sony needs an operating system of their own. maybe palm is the way to go?? with more funding, it could develop into a world class OS
iChan
macrumors 6502a
pimentoLoaf said:
please don't be absolutely ridiculous. how is the fact that sony is dropping all support of Cliés in the US going to benefit PalmOne or PalmSource?
Palm May dominate the PalmOS market, but the overall market for Palm is going to drop at the very least 25% and you will see a huge surge is PPC uptake. whichever way you try to spin it, losing Sony is MAJOR.
MikeTheC
Guest
A word to the wise...
For you folks who own or know people who own CLIEs, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get over to the Sony support site and D/L every thing you can for the CLIEs before, who only knows when, Sony decides not to maintain that stuff online anymore. It probably wouldn't hurt to get an extra copy of the driver CD or a copy if the unit was bought open-box, as, like I said, you never know how long the parts will be available for it.
Support Page: Sony Online Support - CLIE Handheld and Accessories
Sony World Repair & Parts Center (U.S.) #: 800-488-7669
Me, personally, I'd get a couple extra styli, extra batteries for those units with notebook-style battery modules, etc.
Of course, on the other hand, you could always dump it on eBay and get a Palm or (gaak!) a PocketPC-based unit.
Mike
For you folks who own or know people who own CLIEs, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get over to the Sony support site and D/L every thing you can for the CLIEs before, who only knows when, Sony decides not to maintain that stuff online anymore. It probably wouldn't hurt to get an extra copy of the driver CD or a copy if the unit was bought open-box, as, like I said, you never know how long the parts will be available for it.
Support Page: Sony Online Support - CLIE Handheld and Accessories
Sony World Repair & Parts Center (U.S.) #: 800-488-7669
Me, personally, I'd get a couple extra styli, extra batteries for those units with notebook-style battery modules, etc.
Of course, on the other hand, you could always dump it on eBay and get a Palm or (gaak!) a PocketPC-based unit.
Mike
Awimoway
macrumors 68000
Stella said:
I will never EVER prefer thumbtyping with dinky buttons to a stylus for data entry. Give me the stylus, the original method of data entry since time immemorial (handwriting).
And give me screen real estate. No one in their right mind would use their PDA for daily word processing needs, but it comes in very handy when you're on the go and either don't have your notebook computer or it's too much trouble to get it out. Additionally, I use the big screen for reading. My PDA has a very good dictionary and language translator on it. I can't imagine how unbearable it would be trying to use those apps on a wee phone. 🙄
Awimoway
macrumors 68000
BobVB said:
Except for the crack about color (I do like a nice, crisp hi-res color lookso I'm vain, so shoot me 😛 ) I completely agree. I don't need a built-in camera, I don't need an mp3 player (I have an iPod for that), I need a PDA smartphone that lets me enter data the way God intended: with a stick in my hand, scratching letters.
The day I see a Treo with stylus support and without the moronic thumbboard is the day I buy my next PDA.
Stella
macrumors G3
Did you ever see the Psion 5 keyboard? - unless you had large hands you could touch type very easily.. of course, if you had giants hands - which I know some people have, then yes, the keys were too small :-D
The Screen resolution was something like 640x320 too... good large screen.. the word processing app was good.. word compatible - you could insert graphics, spreadsheets etc etc.
I have yet to see better shipped software on a PDA that came with the Psion - superb.
Picture of the original Psion 5:
http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/psion/psion5_big.jpg
The Screen resolution was something like 640x320 too... good large screen.. the word processing app was good.. word compatible - you could insert graphics, spreadsheets etc etc.
I have yet to see better shipped software on a PDA that came with the Psion - superb.
Picture of the original Psion 5:
http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/psion/psion5_big.jpg
Awimoway said:
Awimoway
macrumors 68000
Stella said:
I don't want to have to type while holding something. You would have to cradle that bad boy under your fingers and type with only your thumbs. That sucker practically needs a lap to put it on (not to mention that it looks greatfor 1992).
And by the way, your loyalty to your P900 is admirable. It's a pretty nice device and very close to what I want (though because it's Symbian I assume third-party apps are scarce), but coming in at the low, low price of $800 is just not what I would call enticing.
xy14
macrumors 6502
Great!!
People, this is actually great news! Apple has been fighting against Sony for a while, with the latest being the Sony Music Store. Now that Sony is halting future sales, Apple can add some PDA functions into the iPod, or maybe even offer a Palm OS version of the iPod. Although I hate PDAs and I don't know why anyone would need one, Apple should start making PDAs and possibly gain popularity from them and people might start getting Apple products and then Apple will have the market share and hopefully some day Microsoft will go bankrupt.
People, this is actually great news! Apple has been fighting against Sony for a while, with the latest being the Sony Music Store. Now that Sony is halting future sales, Apple can add some PDA functions into the iPod, or maybe even offer a Palm OS version of the iPod. Although I hate PDAs and I don't know why anyone would need one, Apple should start making PDAs and possibly gain popularity from them and people might start getting Apple products and then Apple will have the market share and hopefully some day Microsoft will go bankrupt.
Most people are missing the point here. The main reason Sony really failed was because they offered an expensive, inferior product. Like Apple, they felt they could charge more just for the brand name. Now apple can get away with it. However, When I went to buy my Zire 71, I looked at the sony, and put it beck, mainly because it offered no more then the Zire or Tungsten E, yet the price tag had a $100 Premium. Another issue is Sony's lack of low end Zire type models. If sony had a low end and better pricing, they may have had better luck.