Source Code for Apple's Lisa Operating System to be Released for Free in 2018

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. mgauss7 macrumors regular

    mgauss7

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    Miami
    #26
    What is the difference? To me Pascal and C look so alike
     
  2. coolfactor macrumors 68040

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    Jul 29, 2002
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    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    #27
    Yes, today's computers have an immense amount of capability built into them, and built better than ever, yet people think that $1000 is expensive for a [good] computer. It's not. Today's computers are cheap for what you get with them.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 27, 2017 ---
    Ask and you shall receive. :)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Pascal_and_C
     
  3. Dimer macrumors newbie

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    Oct 21, 2014
    #28
    Not C, but Pascal...read the article.
     
  4. jerryk macrumors 68040

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    Nov 3, 2011
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    SF Bay Area
    #29
    I still fire up my 1984 mac every once in a while. It has been upgraded to a fat Mac with 512 kB of memory.
     
  5. NetMage macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    #30
    My head hurts. There are huge differences but mainly C is much closer to the hardware and allows for more efficient programming and worse errors.
     
  6. Tech198 macrumors G5

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    Australia, Perth
    #31
    lol... less problems eh...

    I'm sure today's developers could set this to good use somewhere
     
  7. Axemantitan macrumors 6502

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    #32
    --- Post Merged, Dec 27, 2017 ---
    "Only" 100,000 sold at 10k each. That's $1 billion (in 1983 dollars.)
     
  8. pppx3 macrumors member

    pppx3

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    #33
    excuse my ignorance, but surely not much of the source code would of much use to anyone, especially since most of the Lisa/Mac in the early days relied on the graphics toolbox built into the ROM, right? It want's until the Bondi Blue iMac & G3 tower came along that the expensive ROMs moved into the OS (aka ROM in RAM). I think these components would be more significant, no?
    I remember working on the Lisa (I was an Apple techo a long time ago) and I could not believe how great these machines where, even better than the first Macs. These computers where WAY ahead of anything else in that time (within the PC market) and I wish that I could say the same now. Alas, the Mac looks more like an antique compared with some of the PC offerings now...
     
  9. John Sellers macrumors newbie

    John Sellers

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    Jun 30, 2016
    #34
    Well, If the software is released a a GNU project or some such developes, it is possible it will gain some small popularity to some really good and satisfying ends. Especially for those who harken back to the days where programming was programming instead of monstrous beasts that hardly anyone has a full grasp of.

    We might see some artifacts from and earlier age when language syntax was much cleaner and simple.

    The Lisa has its roots in Pascal and Object Pascal.

    Also, it is an OS that ran well on a 5 megaHtz machine with a tiny footprint compared today's machines. How would such an OS do on a 2.5 gegaHtz machine? It would be VERY fast.

    It actually might find some useful nitches.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 28, 2017 ---
    ouch! Pascal and C are in no way similar. Pascal has a very uniform systemic, simply structured syntax of maximum symplicity, C does not.
     
  10. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

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    Nov 25, 2005
    #35
    Clascal. Pascal with classes. No C anywhere in sight.
     
  11. djcerla macrumors 68000

    djcerla

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    Italy
    #36
    5MHz Motorola 68000 CPU, 1MB of RAM

    In the same year, my ZX Spectrum (about $400) had a paltry 16kb of RAM... and a 3.5MHz CPU (8 bit thought).
     
  12. chucker23n1 macrumors 68000

    chucker23n1

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    Dec 7, 2014
    #37
    Interesting maybe, but not legal — the source will be available, but not under an open-source license.
     
  13. Geohord macrumors member

    Geohord

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    Nov 15, 2016
  14. Miss_Mac macrumors member

    Miss_Mac

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    Nov 22, 2017
    #39
    That's neat. The earliest Mac I remember seeing was when I went to University with a friend and she was working on a little Mac around 1991-1992. I was blown away by the machine (and the little smiling computer icon.)

    If I knew anything about programming, I'd look forward to this.
     
  15. M2M macrumors 6502

    M2M

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    Jan 12, 2009
    #40
    Maybe good for the current MacOS and iOS teams to Learn something about good coding ?
     
  16. sracer macrumors 604

    sracer

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    #41
    When C first hit the scene, I thought it was a step backward in terms of computer language development, primarily due to it being closer to the hardware and requiring the programmer to be (painfully) aware of and managing null termination on strings. ;)

    Having written my share of software in Assembler (360 and on personal computers), PL/I (and the rest of the language family: PL/S, PL/AS, etc.) I was excited for the ability to "step up" and develop in Pascal. Oh what we could do on a PC/AT with PC-DOS and Turbo Pascal 3.0. The compiler, editor, and linker all in a 40KB executable file.... hold on... hey you kids! get off my lawn!!!... I'm back.

    I think releasing the source code for the Lisa OS is fantastic and hopefully will give people today a peek into what personal computer software and system development was like back-in-the-day.

    Time and technology marches forward. We've gain a lot in the process.... but we've lost some stuff (some of that should've been kept) along the way.
     
  17. vkd macrumors 6502a

    vkd

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    Sep 10, 2012
    #42
    I hope we'll be able to run this on our present macs, in an emulator or something. Be fascinating to see the first commercialised GUI (outside of Xerox) functioning.

    Re: Pascal v C

    Basically Pascal is a sequential language, each line of code is numbered and to call a repeated routine you have to specify the start line of code for that function, dropping out with if/then functions. C is modular code, whereby you write self-contained modules of code that are known as functions, which you then call from either other functions or the main program routine. This makes overall programming simpler to write and enables greater diversification and complexity.
     
  18. whiteboytrash macrumors 6502

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    Jul 15, 2007
    #43
    It’s used smalltalk.
     
  19. chabig macrumors 601

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    Sep 6, 2002
    #44
    No. Just no. None of it was taken from Xerox PARC. What Apple got from visiting PARC was the concept of a GUI. The implementation on the Lisa, and then the Mac, was entirely Apple's work. It differed greatly from what they saw at Xerox.
     
  20. MC6800 macrumors 6502

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    Jun 29, 2016
    #45
    You must be thinking BASIC, not Pascal.
     
  21. jtrenthacker macrumors regular

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    Apr 12, 2012
    #46
    Kevin Costner? I have never seen this commercial before. The way he grips the mouse is painful.
     
  22. Rob_2811 macrumors 68000

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    Mar 18, 2016
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    #47
    Still runs better than the last version of the Mac Mini
     
  23. Pentad macrumors 6502a

    Pentad

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    Nov 26, 2003
    Location:
    Indiana
    #49
    LisaOS was way ahead of MacOS at the time. LisaOS could multitask and supported serialization of software to help prevent piracy. However, it used rectangle pixels (the Mac used square, the ST & Amiga round) and was half the speed of the Mac. The rectangle pixels made MacWorks (the software on Lisa to run Mac software) look distorted.

    Burrell Smith (the guy was brilliant, I always felt bad for him later) was able to make the Mac twice as fast at half the cost which sent shockwaves through Apple at the time. This caused a huge division in Apple fueled mostly by Jobs.

    You can download the Lisa here: http://lisa.sunder.net/downloads.html

    You can learn more about the early days at Apple here: https://www.folklore.org
     
  24. centauratlas macrumors 6502a

    centauratlas

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    Jan 29, 2003
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    Florida
    #50
    That is not Pascal you are describing. Maybe you are thinking of BASIC. Pascal is an imperative procedural language without line numbers.
     

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