Spain Launches Investigation Into Apple's App Store

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Install it and then

1. Using an outdated version which could potentially be bad

Or worse

2. Because it is an old version, I can no longer update it without having to go elsewhere.

So no this doesn’t work.

I shouldn’t need to go to another website to sign up for your app.

What’s good for the consumer ease of use which is the App Store.

Stop hiding behind the customer is being hurt because this has everything about the poor trying to get richer vs the rich trying to stay rich.

And that’s fine. But stop trying to Make it about the consumer when it’s not.

It IS mostly about consumers. GOV getting involved is considered the "last resort" when normal competition can't do it and very rich corporation is consolidating its power around a "company store"-type feature like this. This has happened many times before and will happen many times in the future. GOV ultimately has to step in to break such complete holds on sizable markets before it gets really out of hand. This always goes the same way and always ends the same way.

There's certainly other variables in play too but it is mostly about the consumer. If we're placing orders on strangers with "Stop": stop defending an insanely rich mega-corporation unless you work for them. They don't need your defense. I wonder if this was one of the NOT-Apple names feeling some GOV wrath- Microsoft, Google, Netflix, Samsung, Tmobile, AT&T, etc- if the "Defend the corp" crowd would be as passionate on their behalf too? That rhetorical.

As to the idea, yes, use the app until you can't anymore. And during that time, if the app has remained OUT of the primary store of iDevices (which I 100% doubt) and thus turned away all that easy added revenue that would easily come from those who will ONLY buy from that ONE store and/or have been snowed into believing that the only safe place to buy an app is from that ONE store... competitors for any given app type will have very likely added the features in pursuit of market share and one can easily switch to an app clone. I did it myself years ago going from Photoshop to Pixelmator and never looked back. It seems like any given app already has 10+ clones or very similar, almost clones.

If you are unhappy that some developers might obsolete the last version of some app sold on the store, you own a device that the maker obsoletes the most fundamental app on everyone's device... calling it "vintaging" every few years. That device mysteriously slows down over time too. Brand new features won't work on still relatively new hardware. "You have to have the brand new one to get this years __________." Etc.

No, you shouldn't need to go to another store unless that's where one has to go to get what they want... just like we have to do with countless other products sold at some places and not at others. If you only want to buy at one store, clones of whatever app has departed will likely swoop in to pursue customers like you.

Lastly, these laws don't kill the App Store, nor force anyone to buy anything from anywhere other than the App Store. That's all user choices and users can continue to shop only the App Store and buy apps only from the App Store. If some apps go or are kicked out (like Epic games) those wanting to shop only 1 store won't own those apps (as we have for years now, again like Epic games). However, others will shop around- as we likely all do for Mac apps- will have upwards of many options and get to take full advantage of more than ONE seller and thus more than ONE sellers pricing, value propositions, etc.

If you are in the EU and unhappy about this, convince many others about how terrible this is and vote OUT those who enacted this law, replacing them with others who will repeal it. What I rarely seem to see in all of these threads is many people from within the EU finding huge fault with this law. Instead, it seems to be lots of people OUTSIDE the EU faulting EU laws that can't even affect them.

If you are OUTSIDE the EU, this matter has no bearing on you at all, nothing has changed for you, there is still only one store and only one place for app makers to sell apps to you and everyone else outside the EU. Nothing is changed, business as usual, carry on and let people who actually are subject to these laws hate, love or be indifferent to them. If it proves to be a disaster for them, the test cell that is the EU will prove that out and your home country will learn from their terrible mistake and not duplicate it.

I happen to be outside the EU myself and envy the added freedoms of EU Apple people having more choices along these lines... exactly like you and I have with Mac apps... to no great negative consequence, nor doom & disaster virus/trojans/crime syndicates, etc. I own my iDevices and would enjoy Mac-like freedoms of app choices with these Apple mobile computers too. It's OK if you feel differently... my wishes should not force anything on you... AND VICE VERSA.

These laws are now in play almost 6 months now. EU people do not seem too unhappy, nor are they all devastated by criminal actions & viruses... as assured since long before these laws went into effect. They are fine. The rest of us are fine. Apple is fine and still competing for richest company in the world on any given day.

 

[bradman83]

That doesn’t mean it’s not a free market in Europe!??? Just means no other company is willing to compete with the OS as developers won’t necessarily develop. Until you look at China.

That's my point; if the barriers to entry for competition are so high that no one except the one or two players in a given market are willing or able to compete then it's not a free market. That's why monopolies and duopolies are considered negatives.

China is a whole other story and is the opposite of a free market because the Chinese government actively funds or otherwise shows preferential treatment to local tech companies to give them a leg up over foreign competitors (see: Kylin, Baidu, SMIC).

 

[citysnaps]

i thought they reported lower figure over that time frame.
maybe i should check but it was a slight downward trend in quarterly earnings... maybe it was only on some products?
anyone got a link or data on hand?

I was recalling from memory and was off a little. Indeed there was a dip in the last quarter from 46% to 42%. Here's a link:

Apple gross profit 2005-2025| Statista

As of the first quarter of 2025, Apple’s gross profit amounted to around ***** percent.

www.statista.com

 

[wbeasley]

Maybe apple should add some value to their app store so app devs don't leave. The only value they add now is "sell in our store or it won't run on iPhone " that sounds like a threat.

wow. thats a LOOOOOOOONG stretch.

it's been this way for a decade or more. it's not new.

what value would you like them to add?
besides:
- giving you free tools
- cheap annual dev fee that even small devs can afford
- reviewing code
- advertising
- payments
- refunds
- reputation
- large customer base
- reasonable 15-30% cut for distribution and store infrastructure instead of 90% in physical stores

yeah, i can see a lot of areas apple needs to add value LOL

 

[macfacts]

The

wow. thats a LOOOOOOOONG stretch.

it's been this way for a decade or more. it's not new.

what value would you like them to add?
besides:
- giving you free tools
- cheap annual dev fee that even small devs can afford
- reviewing code
- advertising
- payments
- refunds
- reputation
- large customer base
- reasonable 15-30% cut for distribution and store infrastructure instead of 90% in physical stores

yeah, i can see a lot of areas apple needs to add value LOL

There are many users afraid they will have to install another app store, so you have to ask them why they think devs will leave Apple's app store. When's the last time you installed an app because of apple promoting it?

 

[CarAnalogy]

Idc about developers getting rich. I care about consumers.

You can’t compare the two.

Apple does not have all the power but they have a lot of power. Hence why these developers are whining to the government.

Steve b screaming developers was because nobody was developing apps for windows phone. They literally had zero power. What apps they did have were terrible (you know it’s bad when android apps were better then windows phones and android apps are crap. ) and I say this all as a windows phone fangirl. So those aren’t remotely the same

Apple has a problem though in that they have to deal with big corporations and also with indie developers and somehow make it work for both. I get your point, and a lot of what Apple does has in mind the Spotifys and Facebooks, and the indies get caught between the two. They might want to be more lenient about some things but know it would be immediately abused.

I think a lot of developers for iOS don't expect to get rich exactly, they just expect to be able to earn a good living without Apple giving them unreasonable hassle. And most of the time, that's what happens. But when it doesn't, Apple's developer relations often seem to be unnecessarily hostile and/or obtuse.

 

[I7guy]

It IS mostly about consumers. GOV getting involved is considered the "last resort" when normal competition can't do it and very rich corporation is consolidating its power around a "company store"-type feature like this. This has happened many times before and will happen many times in the future. GOV ultimately has to step in to break such complete holds on sizable markets before it gets really out of hand. This always goes the same way and always ends the same way.

Hypothetically speaking sure. We can disagree on the specific cases. It doesn’t always end up the same way. Ask IBM.

There's certainly other variables in play too but it is mostly about the consumer. If we're placing orders on strangers with "Stop": stop defending an insanely rich mega-corporation unless you work for them. They don't need your defense.

Yes these insanely rich corporations need our defense if we rely on their products and we do not want government to step in and muck things up.

I wonder if this was one of the NOT-Apple names feeling some GOV wrath- Microsoft, Google, Netflix, Samsung, Tmobile, AT&T, etc- if the "Defend the corp" crowd would be as passionate on their behalf too? That rhetorical.

Defend the cornrows is pretty rich.

As to the idea, yes, use the app until you can't anymore. And during that time, if the app has remained OUT of the primary store of iDevices (which I 100% doubt) and thus turned away all that easy added revenue that would easily come from those who will ONLY buy from that ONE store and/or have been snowed into believing that the only safe place to buy an app is from that ONE store... competitors for any given app type will have very likely added the features in pursuit of market share and one can easily switch to an app clone. I did it myself years ago going from Photoshop to Pixelmator and never looked back. It seems like any given app already has 10+ clones or very similar, almost clones.

If you are unhappy that some developers might obsolete the last version of some app sold on the store, you own a device that the maker obsoletes the most fundamental app on everyone's device... calling it "vintaging" every few years. That device mysteriously slows down over time too. Brand new features won't work on still relatively new hardware. "You have to have the brand new one to get this years __________." Etc.

No, you shouldn't need to go to another store unless that's where one has to go to get what they want... just like we have to do with countless other products sold at some places and not at others. If you only want to buy at one store, clones of whatever app has departed will likely swoop in to pursue customers like you.

Lastly, these laws don't kill the App Store, nor force anyone to buy anything from anywhere other than the App Store. That's all user choices and users can continue to shop only the App Store and buy apps only from the App Store.

These laws makers for consumers not better.

If some apps go or are kicked out (like Epic games) those wanting to shop only 1 store won't own those apps (as we have for years now, again like Epic games).

Epic is a good reason why these laws are bad.

However, others will shop around- as we likely all do for Mac apps- will have upwards of many options and get to take full advantage of more than ONE seller and thus more than ONE sellers pricing, value propositions, etc.

If you are in the EU and unhappy about this, convince many others about how terrible this is and vote OUT those who enacted this law, replacing them with others who will repeal it. What I rarely seem to see in all of these threads is many people from within the EU finding huge fault with this law. Instead, it seems to be lots of people OUTSIDE the EU faulting EU laws that can't even affect them.

Lots of people on the EU ragging on American corps, so I think this goes both ways.

If you are OUTSIDE the EU, this matter has no bearing on you at all, nothing has changed for you, there is still only one store and only one place for app makers to sell apps to you and everyone else outside the EU. Nothing is changed, business as usual, carry on and let people who actually are subject to these laws hate, love or be indifferent to them. If it proves to be a disaster for them, the test cell that is the EU will prove that out and your home country will learn from their terrible mistake and not duplicate it.

Again, a fundamental right to voice an opinion here.

I happen to be outside the EU myself and envy the added freedoms of EU Apple people having more choices along these lines... exactly like you and I have with Mac apps... to no great negative consequence, nor doom & disaster virus/trojans/crime syndicates, etc. I own my iDevices and would enjoy Mac-like freedoms of app choices with these Apple mobile computers too. It's OK if you feel differently... my wishes should not force anything on you... AND VICE VERSA.

These laws are now in play almost 6 months now. EU people do not seem too unhappy, nor are they all devastated by criminal actions & viruses..

You don’t know what the masses think. Only what posters at MR think.

. as assured since long before these laws went into effect. They are fine. The rest of us are fine. Apple is fine and still competing for richest company in the world on any given day.

That is not the point.

 

[wbeasley]

The
There are many users afraid they will have to install another app store, so you have to ask them why they think devs will leave Apple's app store. When's the last time you installed an app because of apple promoting it?

actually any time i go to the app store there is always a list of apps that are new shown.

when i search for an app to do something, Apple also return a great range of similar apps.

and their list of Top 200 is worth a browse.

so yeah Apple do a LOT of marketing of apps

 

[dampfnudel]

At some point Apple just needs to allow 3rd party app stores world-wide. We know its right, Apple knows its right, the fight has been lost.

I guess it’s just a matter of time until we get it in the US. I’m not completely sure if it’s a good thing or not (time will tell), but for now I’ll say Thanks EU.

 

[iPadified]

If you are in the EU and unhappy about this, convince many others about how terrible this is and vote OUT those who enacted this law, replacing them with others who will repeal it. What I rarely seem to see in all of these threads is many people from within the EU finding huge fault with this law. Instead, it seems to be lots of people OUTSIDE the EU faulting EU laws that can't even affect them.

So true. EU guide the market so it fulfils the EU vision of a good healthy society. These visions are strongly rooted in the middle of the political scale so all in EU is complaining on EU but all (well not the far left and right of course) are also accepting the politics because it is mostly good. On the whole, in EU we feel that governments are good to ensure health, personal safety and practicalities such as common plugs for car charging and free roaming within EU. Sometimes EU do "stupid things" but so do companies like bricking 8 million computers due to poor quality control.

Applying US, Chinese, Russian Japanese political culture values on EU is an unfruitful approach and the root to the same conflicts in these types of threads. If you want to be global, adapt to the culture and laws of the respective region. Otherwise, stay at home. Would be good if people stated their nationality in these kinds of threads.

 

[Jamie0003]

A bunch of poppycock. Do you honestly believe that in “Tims AAPL” customers are so stupid and blinded they will buy anything Apple puts in front of them?

Lmao do you know what forum you’re on?

See:

Mac Pro wheels
Vision Pro
Apple Polishing Cloth
$950 monitor stand

 

[black_knight]

It’s both sad and hilarious.

They couldn’t get iMessage so they had to find something trivial.


Who’s we? I’m fine and have no complaints with iOS App Store.

Just because there are people who want to make iOS perform like android (instead of getting android) and how it works doesn’t mean you speak for all
Of us.



There said it for you.

I wish ppl would stop trying to tell people what is better for consumers. Again i(like hundreds of millions of others) were fine.

It is not better for me and many others to have to go to multiple app stores to download an app because the developer wants to make money (same as apple) by not paying the app store. There is no benefit to having multiple App Store options vs a consolidated App Store.

Agreed on all points.

 

[siddavis]

There is a famous incident from the 1980s where Ford decided it was cheaper to pay the fines and penalties in wrongful death lawsuits involving the Ford Pinto than to actually issue a recall to fix the problem.

Obviously the App Store is a far cry from life and death, but the lesson here is that if a penalty is too small for a massive company then it won't provide the proper incentive to fix the issue or stop the behavior. History is littered with other examples, especially around environmental contamination, where it was cheaper to pay the fine than to address the underlying issue.

Cynics here will claim "Waaah the evil goverment just wants poor innocent Apple's money!" but the key here is that the regulators in Spain or any other government are not expecting Apple to actually pay this fine, they're expecting the fine to be so steep that it will ensure Apple's compliance to avoid it.

I know this is Spain, but in the US, there’s a famous thing that has the 8th amendment.

 

[scorpio vega]

Apple has a problem though in that they have to deal with big corporations and also with indie developers and somehow make it work for both. I get your point, and a lot of what Apple does has in mind the Spotifys and Facebooks, and the indies get caught between the two. They might want to be more lenient about some things but know it would be immediately abused.

I think a lot of developers for iOS don't expect to get rich exactly, they just expect to be able to earn a good living without Apple giving them unreasonable hassle. And most of the time, that's what happens. But when it doesn't, Apple's developer relations often seem to be unnecessarily hostile and/or obtuse.

Except these aren’t small developers that are main ones complaining.

This is companies like epic and Spotify who are already successful apps.

 

[wbeasley]

Except these aren’t small developers that are main ones complaining.

This is companies like epic and Spotify who are already successful apps.

And Spotify pays Apple nothing... well $99 a year.

 

[scorpio vega]

It IS mostly about consumers

It is not about the consumer because the majority of consumers don’t care about third party app stores.

iOS has been made a certain way for nearly 20 years. If people were truly this upset with it it wouldn’t be the leading smartphone brand.

This is every bit about developers trying to stay rich or get rich as possible while hiding behind the excuse of caring about consumers.

If consumers were demanding these changes they would have long abandoned iOS and apple years ago lmao.

How do I know this?

Windows phones. Prime example. Yes it was a good OS option but it lacked fundamental things like popular apps. And guess what? The market spoke. They abandoned windows phones and went elsewhere.

If the consumers were demanding emulators. Demanding alternative stores they would have been dropped apple for lagdroid.

Apples market share falling in some countries isn’t because they lack these features. It’s falling because lagdroid phones are competing on price (since that’s the main reason ppl buy them is because they are cheap)

They don't need your defense. I wonder if this was one of the NOT-Apple names feeling some GOV wrath- Microsoft, Google, Netflix, Samsung, Tmobile, AT&T, etc- if the "Defend the corp" crowd would be as passionate on their behalf too? That rhetorical.

I don’t use most of the products as they are trash outside of Netflix and T-Mobile.

I’m not defending them so much as commenting on the ridiculousness of this.

store of iDevices (which I 100% doubt)

Idk why you doubt it. If they have full control over their apps distribution and they are a big enough name they will remove it.

I would. To force the user to update which means to force them to come to their App Store

competitors for any given app type will have very likely added the features in pursuit of market share and one can easily switch to an app clone.

Sorry I don’t want knockoffs. I stopped using knock off apps when I stopped using windows phone and android.

you own a device that the maker obsoletes the most fundamental app on everyone's device...

My phone works just fine both on the 11 and 15 pm

That device mysteriously slows down over time too.

iPhone 11 is running strong on the iOS 18 with no slow downs.

Brand new features won't work on still relatively new hardware. "You have to have the brand new one to get this years __________." Etc

That’s expected lol.

My iPhone 11 is like five years old and still getting updates. I don’t expect that my iPhone 11 should get every feature that my 15 pm is going to get.

The 11 is still a good phone but it isn’t capable. Now if my 15 was being treated the same I’d be offended.

At some point there is not a reason to push features to older phones because you sacrificed performance integrity.

ever, others will shop around- as we likely all do for Mac apps- will have upwards of many options and get to take full advantage of more than ONE seller and thus more than ONE sellers pricing, value propositions, etc.

Yes aka trash like the android App Store.

Instead, it seems to be lots of people OUTSIDE the EU faulting EU laws that can't even affect them.

How is that any different than ppl in other countries commenting in things in America that have little to do with them?

It’s what ppl do.

If you are OUTSIDE the EU, this matter has no bearing on you at all, nothing has changed for you, there is still only one store and only one place for app makers to sell apps to you and everyone else outside the EU

Except when it does affect me.

I find usb c terrible and I’m not in the Eu and I’m stuck using it.

exactly like you and I have with Mac apps... to no great negative consequence, nor doom & disaster virus/trojans/crime syndicates, etc.

Mac and iOS are two different platforms with two different usage/ideology.

Much like windows phone and windows 8/10 showed that ppl did not want their desktop Os to act the same as their mobile

Mac also doesn’t have any of the market share that iOS has for their to be any sort of virus 🦠 or trojans to worry about.

EU people do not seem too unhappy, nor are they all devastated by criminal actions & viruses...

Lmao because the only people who actually know about these changes are enthusiasts.

Enthusiasts are not the average consumer who knows what alt store is.

I will give you an example. From working in telecom.

Many people did not realize that Amazon fire tablets ran android lol. But then they were also equally confused when they discovered it is android but many of the same apps aren’t available.

 

[CarAnalogy]

And Spotify pays Apple nothing... well $99 a year.

But what did Apple do for Spotify that they deserve 30% of Spotify's revenue in perpetuity?

They claim it's the same thing they do for every developer for the same $99 per year.

They provided a place to download the app. Wait, I'm sorry, I meant they provided the exclusive distribution where they could distribute the app subject to Apple's many, many terms and conditions.

 

[I7guy]

But what did Apple do for Spotify that they deserve 30% of Spotify's revenue in perpetuity?

They claim it's the same thing they do for every developer for the same $99 per year.

They provided a place to download the app. Wait, I'm sorry, I meant they provided the exclusive distribution where they could distribute the app subject to Apple's many, many terms and conditions.

All the while using apples property to earn their wage.

 

[Mother Nature]

There is nothing about having 3rd party app stores that will make iOS perform like android.

You can still select to get all of your apps from the Apple app store and your phone will work just the same.

Don't see why you want to limit the freedom of others that have different needs. That view sounds narrow minded to me.

When people decided to buy Apple products THEY ALREADY KNEW what was offered. Why suddenly a lot of people (Android lovers that need to come out of the closet) want iOS to do the same that can be done in Android?

 

[nt5672]

When people decided to buy Apple products THEY ALREADY KNEW what was offered. Why suddenly a lot of people (Android lovers that need to come out of the closet) want iOS to do the same that can be done in Android?

Because Android is not iOS.

 

[jlc1978]

And Spotify pays Apple nothing... well $99 a year.

Which is why Apple should switch to a per download/hosting charges for subscription apps that are not free but pay Apple nothing; Apple has a right to make money off of its infrastructure.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

When people decided to buy Apple products THEY ALREADY KNEW what was offered. Why suddenly a lot of people (Android lovers that need to come out of the closet) want iOS to do the same that can be done in Android?

Because people want the overall benefits of iDevices- of which there are MANY beyond only where one buys apps and makes in-app purchases- AND the superior freedom to be able to shop around for apps. Shopping around for ANYTHING usually leads to lower prices of whatever is being shopped. See Apple pricing of their own things and compare to prices on Amazon, Best Buy, etc. It's exactly the same product but one can save some money by being able to shop around and finding a better/best price for it. Competition drives DOWN prices if competition is in place. A lone Company Store always exploits being the only store in town... and the owner of such a complete lock on what it can sell always gets very rich when shoppers can NOT shop around. This is a story as old as time and it's always the same story.

Closer to home: Mac. Apple runs a Mac App Store too. However, Mac is already set up with these basic freedoms for customers on a global scale. If you look in Applications and have even ONE app you got direct from the creator of that App, or from some third party store (tax software anyone?), or in one of those "10 apps for a $1" bundle offerings, etc... you've very likely taken advantage of the better value available to add 1+ apps to your Mac by NOT limiting your app shopping to only the Mac App Store. I have several great apps that I did not buy from the Mac App Store. Some came from one of those bargain priced bundles. I've never even seen one of the bundle-type offers for iDevices? Why? Because there's no such competition for a lone "Company Store" able to offer them.

The "a lot of people" doesn't even really fit. It appears that many of us passionately arguing for or against this EU law are people NOT in the EU... including myself. I can only envy their greater Mac-owner-like freedoms with their iDevices. Where I live- ironically nicknamed the "land of the free" and the "cradle of capitalism" etc- I am limited to getting my apps from only the lone company store and if "Daddy" decides to kick any apps out of that store, I can't opt to add them to this little computer I OWN (that no longer belongs to Daddy anymore after I buy it)... and should Daddy decide to up pricing across the board to ANY LEVEL, I don't have any choices if I want Apps for these Apple mobile computers I own... because that's how it ALWAYS goes with a lone "Company Store." One seller with no competition can charge any price. Consumers in that situation have 2 choices: pay up for that "any price" or say "NO" and do without. There's no other option... unlike with the vast majority of all other things for sale.

Could someone switch to Android? Sure, but that comes with losing countless other benefits that have nothing to do with store, in app purchases, etc. The fact that Android phones exist doesn't resolve this problem for people who want their Apple cake and want to eat it too... like Android owners... without having to embrace Android. Again, see Mac. With robust competition for Mac apps, the only alt choice is not to switch to Windows. All of us everywhere can have our Mac app cake and eat it too and it all works just fine.

Again, how any of us feel about this is practically moot at this point. The law is in place (nearly 6 months now). Apple is mostly complying with it... and will be moved to fully comply with both the letter and spirit of it eventually (because that's how all such scenarios always go once the might of GOVs take on this issue). All the writing in the world in threads pro or con won't put this Pandora back in the jar. All we have to do now is simply stand by and watch & learn.

Will these laws lead to the EU being destroyed by the absolutely certain virus/trojans/plagues/pestilence/doom/crime so many have slung about this for the last year+? TBD but coming up on 6 months now, I've not even seen ONE such story so far. Apparently EU criminals are very patient in executing their nefarious plans such as emptying those bank accounts.

Will Apple be destroyed by complying with law? Apple continues to regularly be competing for "richest company in the world" and will still be doing so even if the whole planet presses and enforces this kind of law.

Will all of us be doomed by EU laws if we don't live in the EU? Business as usual for the rest of the planet. One App Store for the rest of us. Daddy gets to decide what software we can and can't have and if we want any of the "can have" we pay whatever price is asked... because we can't shop even one other source for the very same app.

Will Apple friends within the EU be destroyed by these laws? TBD... but not even ONE case of any such thing so far... after nearly 6 months.

In summary: nothing to see here. Move on (much like the EU law "force" from lightning to USB-C was also a certain disaster for all turned out to be one big nothing burger too. I still have lint in my pockets. My port is not wobbly. My USB tongue is not broken. I've rarely seen any posts at all about anyone suffering with the doom of USB-C. I presume nobody bought the USB-C iPhone given the absolute certainty of how terrible that "forced" change would be for all of us. Or perhaps they are bogged down under a huge pile of broken USB-C tongues and can't report? It can't be the extinct pocket lint!

 

[wbeasley]

Because people want the overall benefits of iDevices- of which there are MANY beyond only where one buys apps and makes in-app purchases- AND the superior freedom to be able to shop around for apps. Shopping around for ANYTHING usually leads to lower prices of whatever is being shopped. See Apple pricing of their own things and compare to prices on Amazon, Best Buy, etc. It's exactly the same product but one can save some money by being able to shop around and finding a better/best price for it. Competition drives DOWN prices if competition is in place. A lone Company Store always exploits being the only store in town... and the owner of such a complete lock on what it can sell always gets very rich when shoppers can NOT shop around. This is a story as old as time and it's always the same story.

Closer to home: Mac. Apple runs a Mac App Store too. However, Mac is already set up with these basic freedoms for customers on a global scale. If you look in Applications and have even ONE app you got direct from the creator of that App, or from some third party store (tax software anyone?), or in one of those "10 apps for a $1" bundle offerings, etc... you've very likely taken advantage of the better value available to add 1+ apps to your Mac by NOT limiting your app shopping to only the Mac App Store. I have several great apps that I did not buy from the Mac App Store. Some came from one of those bargain priced bundles. I've never even seen one of the bundle-type offers for iDevices? Why? Because there's no such competition for a lone "Company Store" able to offer them.

The "a lot of people" doesn't even really fit. It appears that many of us passionately arguing for or against this EU law are people NOT in the EU... including myself. I can only envy their greater Mac-owner-like freedoms with their iDevices. Where I live- ironically nicknamed the "land of the free" and the "cradle of capitalism" etc- I am limited to getting my apps from only the lone company store and if "Daddy" decides to kick any apps out of that store, I can't opt to add them to this little computer I OWN (that no longer belongs to Daddy anymore after I buy it)... and should Daddy decide to up pricing across the board to ANY LEVEL, I don't have any choices if I want Apps for these Apple mobile computers I own... because that's how it ALWAYS goes with a lone "Company Store." One seller with no competition can charge any price. Consumers in that situation have 2 choices: pay up for that "any price" or say "NO" and do without. There's no other option... unlike with the vast majority of all other things for sale.

Could someone switch to Android? Sure, but that comes with losing countless other benefits that have nothing to do with store, in app purchases, etc. The fact that Android phones exist doesn't resolve this problem for people who want their Apple cake and want to eat it too... like Android owners... without having to embrace Android. Again, see Mac. With robust competition for Mac apps, the only alt choice is not to switch to Windows. All of us everywhere can have our Mac app cake and eat it too and it all works just fine.

Again, how any of us feel about this is practically moot at this point. The law is in place (nearly 6 months now). Apple is mostly complying with it... and will be moved to fully comply with both the letter and spirit of it eventually (because that's how all such scenarios always go once the might of GOVs take on this issue). All the writing in the world in threads pro or con won't put this Pandora back in the jar. All we have to do now is simply stand by and watch & learn.

Will these laws lead to the EU being destroyed by the absolutely certain virus/trojans/plagues/pestilence/doom/crime so many have slung about this for the last year+? TBD but coming up on 6 months now, I've not even seen ONE such story so far. Apparently EU criminals are very patient in executing their nefarious plans such as emptying those bank accounts.

Will Apple be destroyed by complying with law? Apple continues to regularly be competing for "richest company in the world" and will still be doing so even if the whole planet presses and enforces this kind of law.

Will all of us be doomed by EU laws if we don't live in the EU? Business as usual for the rest of the planet. One App Store for the rest of us. Daddy gets to decide what software we can and can't have and if we want any of the "can have" we pay whatever price is asked... because we can't shop even one other source for the very same app.

Will Apple friends within the EU be destroyed by these laws? TBD... but not even ONE case of any such thing so far... after nearly 6 months.

In summary: nothing to see here. Move on (much like the EU law "force" from lightning to USB-C was also a certain disaster for all turned out to be one big nothing burger too. I still have lint in my pockets. My port is not wobbly. My USB tongue is not broken. I've rarely seen any posts at all about anyone suffering with the doom of USB-C. I presume nobody bought the USB-C iPhone given the absolute certainty of how terrible that "forced" change would be for all of us. Or perhaps they are bogged down under a huge pile of broken USB-C tongues and can't report? It can't be the extinct pocket lint!

Why do you not get that the iOS app store and the Mac app store are totally different beasts?

Macs always allowed use installed software because Windows and Linux allowed it.

iOS was designed from the ground up to be a consumer device and build in protection so you couldnt just install anything. It's not a general purpose computer. Yes, it runs code that has a lot in common behind the scenes but it was designed to be touch first input and secure. Macs didnt have touch verification for a long time.

The EU USB-C charging was another example of little thought. It's great you can charge your phone on any charger. But the speeds can still be crippled by the charger regardless of the plug. And data exchange speed for the exact same plug has many "standards". Apple being somewhat mean in complying and still only offering USB 2.0 for lower end phones.

The rollout of AI may be slow in the EU as Apple now needs to weigh up each feature add to see if this will cause the EU to jump up and down again. So consumers lose there as well...

 

[AppliedMicro]

Which is why Apple should switch to a per download/hosting charges for subscription apps that are not free but pay Apple nothing; Apple has a right to make money off of its infrastructure.

No - if anything, they should switch to a model where hosting any commercial app is charged. Any pricing model that charges Uber something else than Spotify should be banned as unjustified differentiation.

Why do you not get that the iOS app store and the Mac app store are totally different beasts?
Macs always allowed use installed software because Windows and Linux allowed it.

Whether or not the Mac allows allowed that, they’re fundamentally the same.
The macOS App Store even carries iOS and iPadOS apps.

iOS was designed from the ground up to be a consumer device and build in protection so you couldnt just install anything.

…and yet people could install anything if only signed with an enterprise certificate.

It’s clearly not designed “from the ground up” to prohibit installation of third-party software through other channels than Apple. Apple merely impose - for monetary gain - restrictions on app installation “on top” of a system that allows for installation of apps.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Why do you not get that the iOS app store and the Mac app store are totally different beasts?

Because they are not.

Macs always allowed use installed software because Windows and Linux allowed it.

Irrelevant.

iOS was designed from the ground up to be a consumer device and build in protection so you couldnt just install anything.

Or, App Store was designed from the ground up with "maximizing profit" in mind and thus a very common opportunity- the "Company Store" model- was applied. It worked. Apple is often competing for richest company in the world.

And iOS was originally designed with no App Store at all... that all apps would have to be web apps. And then consumer demand pushed for an evolutionary CHANGE that made it possible to get true apps. Another evolutionary change is just as easy- whether Apple and some of us like it or not. Apple has already proven how easy it is by opting to COMPLY with the EU law and make it possible in relatively little time.

Unfortunately, Apple has grown so big & powerful, the option of LAST resort- GOV- had to step in to "force" that change. Why? No company store arrangement EVER wants to change on its own and introduce real competition. Competition is bad for margins. There's far too much money in having a complete lock on that arrangement.

It's not a general purpose computer. Yes, it runs code that has a lot in common behind the scenes but it was designed to be touch first input and secure. Macs didnt have touch verification for a long time.

iOS didn't have touch verification for a long time. For many early generations, one had to enter a password for access... just like we had to do with Macs.

Pandoras jar is opened already- nearly 6 months now. This matter is already over. Apple cannot stop the inevitably, just delay fully complying with both letter and spirit of the law. This always ends the same way no matter what a bunch of people write on forums such as this.

The ongoing security argument is hilarious. We're 6 months in now. Best I know, not ONE case of any security breach in the EU at all... not one virus story introduced because of this... not one bank account emptied... not one trojan... no locusts/frogs/plague... etc. How many months need to pass before we all realize that that was just one big pile of "protect the company store" spin?

I recall the same nonsense about the USB-C change... that it was a lint magnet... that the ports were fragile and would need constant, expensive repair... that the tongue would be breaking all the time and need expensive repairs... etc. Where's all those USB-C repair kiosks to deal with all that devestation? Where's all those USB tongues? I still find lint in my pockets. Perhaps my iDevice magnet is not working properly?

We can buy spin and spread it like evangelists or we can just face reality. This is done already. Once GOV takes on a company store situation, it's OVER. The question is only how long will the rich owner of that arrangement fight to try to preserve the easy money flow from total control of the market it 100% owns. History shows very clearly that ALL such arrangements fall once GOV takes action to terminate it. For instance, almost none of us are "forced" into using IE because GOV took on that one and brought competition back to the browser space. I type this through Safari right now... but my original Mac came with IE because it HAD to have IE to have much of a chance at that time. Fortunately, GOV made similar moves so that the Safaris, Chromes, etc could rise up and offer some competition.

All of the disaster & security spin won't change the reality of simply observing the massive test cell that is the EU and seeing how much devastation they suffer- in isolation- for being first to implement. All this ongoing "crying Wolf! Wolf!" only fools the villagers so many times. Eventually, they realize there was never any wolf.

Time is not on the side of anyone continuing to spin the Company lines here. Time is proving that the entire wall of security risk was only spin. Else, I seriously doubt the evil crime syndicates spun as certainly going to jump on this easy security exploitation have the patience to wait almost 6 months now to make their moves. Maybe we all wise up after 7 months? 8 months? 12 months? At some point, even the fan-iest fan has to recognize that the USB tongues didn't break... the lint didn't go extinct... and that competition for where one buys apps for these little computers is no "4 Horsemen" event at all. Deny all we want but the EU is PROVING that reality with each passing day.