Whichever side we’re on, at least we can agree that pretty much every possible point has already been made.
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Spain Launches Investigation Into Apple's App Store
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Grey market items aren't per se illegal. The manufacturer may want to limit grey market imports, and may not honor warranty claims, but generally you can legally import such items; although in the US courts are split on the issue.
Apple has a worldwide warranty on iPhones and a lot of, but not all, of its products.
I think a company that probably employs hundreds of lawyers and lobbyists should be able to figure this out quite quickly.
Grey market items are a grey area.
Not sure about accidental damage such as cracked glass.
I literally haven't read an article beginning with so much nonsense all month. And this month is pretty old already as we speak.
- "the terrible Internet experience endemic to the continent: every website has a bunch of regulatory-required pop-ups asking for permission to simply operate as normal websites"
👉 First of all, I don't believe that multiple pop-ups are even legal according to EU regulation. I'm quite certain that only one pop-up and a limited number of clicks is allowed to make those settings available to the user. "Bunches" of pop-ups would make that unreasonably hard for the users.
Second, there's an underlying reason why they have such "bunches" of settings popping up: It's not functioning as a normal web site - it's sites including unspeakable numbers of ad tracking and user data trackers in them on top of functioning as a normal web site. This creepy practice has spread from America - a place with little to no data protection laws - to Europe.
"visiting things like museums, making restaurant reservations, etc.; what stood out to me was just how much information all of these entities wanted: seemingly every entity required me to make an account, share my mailing address, often my passport information, etc., just to buy a ticket or secure a table"
👉 What kind of alternate reality is the guy living in? I just walk into places and/or give them a call and make a reservation for a table. Passport information? Nonsense.
"It felt bizarrely old-fashioned, as if services like OpenTable or Resy didn’t exist, or even niceties like “Sign In With Google”
👉 Yeah, concerns about privacy - but then touting the ease of signing in with Google - which allows them to even further expand the profile they have on you.
"There simply is no question that iOS is Apple’s intellectual property, and if they wish to charge for it, they can: for it to be otherwise would require taking their property and basically nationalizing it"
👉 The "nationalizing" part is probably something only (at least mostly) Americans can come up with. Again, utter nonsense - but somewhat understandable coming from an American that has long been conditioned to be wary of federal government. And whose concept of economic freedom and competition is limited to "companies being able to do what they want".
There's little restricting Apple from charging for its IP - they just can't do it in a way that gives unfair advantage to their own, competing services.
"demanding a specific business model that is far less profitable (and again, a worse user experience!) is once again a de facto nationalization"
👉 More hyperbole. But given how that's coming from a so-dubbed "expert" with his own Wikipedia article, I can now certainly comprehend where some of your stance about EU regulation (and "IP being given away") comes from. Price or profit caps or regulation of business conduct (and it's limited) don't nationalize things. Governments don't own Meta and they're not controlling their operations.
"German news publishers are picking up where the Belgians left off, a now not-so-proud tradition of suing Google for being included in its listings rather than choosing to opt-out. This time, the publishers want an 11% cut of Google’s revenue related to them being listed."
👉 Not for being merely listed - for Google taking snippets of their content and delivering it to users directly.
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The legality or illegality of imports is defined by acts of law and determined by government authority - not Apple.
Once they've sold their devices to me, I'm free to export and import them to other countries.
Within the limits of the law, of course. And the EU can easily make such imports legal, i.e. apply a principle of international exhaustion on parallel importation. And if Apple were to withdraw from Europe, I can absolutely see them doing it.
Furthermore, if Apple were to withdraw from a particular European Union country (e.g. Spain), they certainly must allow intra-European trade in their products. They can't restrict exporting from other EU countries - in which they've chosen to distribute iPhones - to the country (Spain).
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Politics are hard, so politicians like going after "easy" foreign targets instead. Every native local action in any country has a strong faction pro or con. Opposing or supporting it tooth and nail. So going after a foreign entity with deep pockets gets little pushback and gets the supporters a little time in the spotlight. Tariffs on Chinese products here for example. These are not organically grown legislations brought upon my citizens but manufactured. It's like the mafia going after low-hanging fruit.
Bureaucrats running moribund European economies are looking for money. They see Putin demand tribute and personally receive 50% of profits from the Russian oligarchs and they get jealous. They can't create their own products, so they look to extort from others because nationalism and fascism are real and growing.
You will be able to stick with the Apple App Store for any legit app you want. No one really wants to search 10 app stores. Legit app makers know that. If you want to download torrents and game emulators to criminally violate copyrights, or you want skeevy phishing/spyware/trojan software, then you can go to the EU app stores. Apple is smart to stay away from the criminal enterprises the EC is abetting.
You are merely repeating a pseudo-religious ideology.
Install it and then
1. Using an outdated version which could potentially be bad
Or worse
2. Because it is an old version, I can no longer update it without having to go elsewhere.
So no this doesn’t work.
I shouldn’t need to go to another website to sign up for your app.
What’s good for the consumer ease of use which is the App Store.
Stop hiding behind the customer is being hurt because this has everything about the poor trying to get richer vs the rich trying to stay rich.
And that’s fine. But stop trying to Make it about the consumer when it’s not.
Insecure ppl are the reasons of green bubble envy.
While I prefer talking to blue ppl I don’t care if it’s green and that is safe to say for most.
I mean Spotify is an EU Company isn’t it? I can think of one reason.
It’s clear that some of you view this as such. Much like iMessage.
Google and others tried to say that apple was intentionally locking ppl into iMessage. I’ve used 4 different major platforms (windows phone, android, iOS, blackberry and palm webos).
If this was 2009 with bbm exclusivity I’d say you guys were right.
It’s 2024. We have a plethora of ways to communicate and they often share feature parity so no messaging isn’t difficult. Messaging is difficult only because apple until recently didn’t want to adapt RCS when they already had iMessage.
So yes they are punishing success but now they had to walk it back and say iMessage isn’t a gate keeper.
In regards to download apps and multiple app stores, Me and like many customers literally do not care. We want the easiest way to download an app.
I’m glad apple makes it harder for crap apps to come into the store. Android is terrible for this. Apple isn’t perfect.
But now it’s going to be a hot mess because god forbid a consumer who isn’t on macrumors wants to download an app that isn’t in the App Store. They are not going to be able to easily figure out where it’s from and the average consumer isn’t going to want to go through the trouble of researching.
And I should be able to eat whatever food I want without government regulationsGovernment regulations are great and they protect the consumers. The American "free" market is not free but shaped by lobbyist and rich businesses. Just take a look at the long list of American food brands that are banned in the rest of the world. And the funny thing is most of the brands change the recipes for the EU market so it is possible to have safe food but that would reduce the profit margins. I am happy the EU is protecting us from dangerous American food.
Maybe you should try the same thing you’re telling me
Except this is a complaint from app developers not consumers.
And most consumers aren’t asking for third party app stores.
Just zealots.
Again if you want free control then gasp go android. That’s literally what android is all about.
But for some reason you guys won’t. Probably because it’s a terrible ecosystem.
But hey at least you can add whatever malware you want til your hearts content right.
Lmfao
Until they remove it.
but the point ScorpioVega was trying to make is an app dev might pull the AppStore version and only allow iton their own app store.
it's all good and well if they leave it ALSO on the Apple AppStore.
If they remove it there will be a mess of multi stores to get what you want.
Not just dodgy copyright evading apps ... and Apple now allows (some) emulators in store.
If it is a legit app, Apple will not remove it. A developer should be circumspect about removing their app from Apple's store. Getting a higher percentage isn't necessarily a good thing if you limit your sales by not taking advantage of all available channels.
Yes and this was part of my point. Apple can be the best and still not be the tyrant they have been. Am I the only one reading the at least monthly accounts of developers getting apps rejected for ridiculous reasons? By the way Google is doing this too, and this was ten years ago: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...ntrolling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/
My only point was that if they were willing to give just a little bit, they wouldn't have all this trouble. If they hadn't systematically oppressed certain groups of developers to the point that they were willing to go through all this to have their own store, just for the few categories of apps Apple won't allow, why isn't Apple responding to this in any way except digging in their heels?
We've seen them twice now approve apps for the clear purpose of taking the wind out of Altstore's sails (and sales.)
All I'm saying is that despite Apple's legitimate reasons for operating this way, there are legitimate criticisms and Apple seems determined to ignore them and address them in the most obstinate ways possible instead of just considering the possibility that maybe sometimes they are wrong. It's not helping anyone.
Makes sense.
People here don't realize extremely large fines will simply result in higher retail prices for Apple products.
Ever wonder why Apple's GPM has increased from around 36% to 46% over the last six years?
Samsung even has a proven track record of mocking Apple for removing things and then doing the same within a year.
Why wouldnt they seize an opportunity to raise prices because Apple did it?
They probably even have a lame ad mocking the increase at the ready...
I’m not talking about apple removing it. I’m talking about the developer removing it.
Because I then would be force to go their app or a third party App Store to get the newer versions.
Something similar happened with an app I downloaded with another Apple ID. I made a new one and I had to update the app. Unfortunately I couldn’t because I no longer had access to the old app.
That sucked having to delete the app and the data and reinstalled.
I don’t see them as a tyrant.
They shouldn’t need to because consumers aren’t the ones complaining. It’s developers wanting free access to App Store usage without paying the price.
I actually commend them for it. Glad they aren’t a push over.
You said you want competition. Now it’s bad that apple is using it against them.
They have their little crappy App Store. And apple decides to now allow the app in the main App Store.
That’s genius.
You own your hardware. you can already do whatever you want with it.
It just might not be as easy as you'd like but you can do it.
Just like any other hardware device you buy.
What you cant do it use a device with someone else's software they licenced you to use in certain ways.
You know that already.
But what do you want to do with your phone that you cant already?
Apple added game emulators which pretty much covered what most people wanted to load stolen ROMs.
I'd bet any function you want can be done on an Android device if you really want it.
And 99.9999% or regular phone users wouldnt ever use it.
i thought they reported lower figure over that time frame.
maybe i should check but it was a slight downward trend in quarterly earnings... maybe it was only on some products?
anyone got a link or data on hand?
Maybe apple should add some value to their app store so app devs don't leave. The only value they add now is "sell in our store or it won't run on iPhone " that sounds like a threat.
My point is not that it’s a business move, my point is that it shows that people want it and that it can be done and would be done except that Apple simply doesn’t want it.
It’s this pettiness and protectionism that developers are complaining about.
Apple is not courting developers the way they should. Apple doesn’t have all the power. There’s a reason Ballmer chanted “developers” all those years ago. They make the platform what it is.
I don’t think Apple should be a pushover either, but legitimate criticism and thoughtful response can make things better for everyone.
Idc about developers getting rich. I care about consumers.
You can’t compare the two.
Apple does not have all the power but they have a lot of power. Hence why these developers are whining to the government.
Steve b screaming developers was because nobody was developing apps for windows phone. They literally had zero power. What apps they did have were terrible (you know it’s bad when android apps were better then windows phones and android apps are crap. ) and I say this all as a windows phone fangirl. So those aren’t remotely the same
With great power comes with great responsibility. I guess this motto Never existed in the corporate world huh. Or more likely, all corporates defy it day in day out.
Besides, a corporation can act like a dictatorship without being monopoly whatsoever. Both qualities are not mutually exclusive. Yes, they made the platform, they maintain the platform, so they naturally can control it. But, just like someone owning a house can’t just decide to build an apartment on that land without any approval, Apple’s control cannot be boundless and Crush affected third parties at will without consequences. Apple effectively dictating the life of millions of developers is becoming borderline boundless.
Also, such strong fist for power and greed mimics what a dictatorship country looks like. It’s so peculiar that Apple can play well in China but almost all other US companies can’t. Strange huh? Maybe because they share similar qualities.
Anyways, my point is Apple can’t assume they have unlimited power in the tech world, can crush other players at will, and can do whatever they feel like it without any consequences. This includes the way they control the platform “They built“.
Or not others who may want to “import” iPhones.
Or you can ignore the laws and do what you want.
Sure but apple doesn’t have to support the devices.
But they don’t have to support them.