They have those. They're called HMOs. And they work for the benefit of their investors, not for the patients, or even for the medical industry. And as a result, they make big profits and the quality of care goes down the toilet.
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Split - Politics of space exploration
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They have those. They're called HMOs. And they work for the benefit of their investors, not for the patients, or even for the medical industry. And as a result, they make big profits and the quality of care goes down the toilet.
Actually, people with low to moderate incomes often go without health insurance simply because they can't afford the premiums, and if they have a less then perfect health history, they might not find an insurance company willing to offer them a policy at any price, let alone one they can afford. This process is known in the industry as "cherry picking," as anyone who's experienced the private insurance market knows. This situation only points out the massive perversity of a system that denies essential services to those who need them the most. Some of us think this system is an abomination; other's clearly think it's kind of swell, so long as they've got theirs.
Mactastic and you can start a caring-HMO that offers health care coverage to these low-to moderate income people. Couldn't you provide them with the health care coverage that you and they think they deserve? Couldn't you make a caring-HMO that works to serve its policy holders instead of its investors?
You must be working awfully hard at not getting this.
No, the market does not provide for these people, and never will. If market forces alone are allowed to determine who gets health care and who does not, a steadily growing number of people will be locked out of the health care system. Some people think this is a problem; others do not. I certainly know by now you are one who does not.
Since you are so candid about not caring, I suggest you propose this as a plank in the Republican platform. You might call it the "Let them Eat Aspirin" clause.
You are working awfully hard to justify your theft of my hard-earned money as well. Charity, I can understand. Voluntary contributions, I can understand. Theft is where I draw the line. Just because 50.1% of the people say its okay to take from the other 49.9% doesn't mean its not theft.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
This is still the 'law of the land'.
Ha-ha. Taxes are illegal then. Who'd have thunk it? I guess that means George Bush should be in jail -- he's spent $87 billion so far on invading and reconstructing Iraq, and I sure as heck didn't approve of that.
Look, why don't you just admit that you're a icy-hearted so-and-so? I mean, if you're going to be that way anyhow, why not drop the pretense and sew your withered conscience on your shoulder?
Look, why don't you just admit that you're a icy-hearted so-and-so? I mean, if you're going to be that way anyhow, why not drop the pretense and sew your withered conscience on your shoulder?
No- the government has the POWER to tax. (thanks 2j2c)
Humm...
Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution of the United States of America:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States...
and
Amendment XVI
(1913)
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census of enumeration.
Also- If you so believe in socialism or communism, i haven't dicided which i think you hold true, why is it that you live in a capitalist society?
So if the gov't has the right to tax, lets tax and use it for health care. How is that stealing any more than taxing for corporate subsidies or social security?
i am not arguing the legality of this tax. i am argiung two points:
a) a national healthcare system will in the long term harm medical care for all, and
b) nat'l HC, SS, and many other socialist systems have no place in the US. We have already proven 99% that social security is a bad idea. what makes nat'l HC any different? our population is only going to continue to grow. will our 280million person population be able to support the health needs of a 350million strong country in a century? I doubt it could.
Arguing semantics again, government has the "power" to tax, not the right. People have rights, gov't has powers.
Admittedly I still haven't taken time to do my research, IJ. Seems like a herculean task, understanding this healthcare beast of ours... I'll admit to an initial bias of mine, that if government-provided health care (Medicare, Medicaid) is supposed to be the "safety net", and it isn't working, I'll have to be convinced that more government is the answer.
But, I'll try to keep an open mind. Maybe I will be convinced. We'll see.
Admittedly I still haven't taken time to do my research, IJ. Seems like a herculean task, understanding this healthcare beast of ours... I'll admit to an initial bias of mine, that if government-provided health care (Medicare, Medicaid) is supposed to be the "safety net", and it isn't working, I'll have to be convinced that more government is the answer.
But, I'll try to keep an open mind. Maybe I will be convinced. We'll see.
no- i am asking why a person with such beliefs chooses to life in the US. i was NOT telling them to leave. other places beileve in different ways of living. why would someone choose to live in a "hostile" place?
So what rights do people have? We know life liberty pursuit of happiness and rkba. Are those the only rights people get?
Does seem like this should be a new thread about healthcare, since space exploration seems to be at the bottom of everyone's priority list 
Sure.Originally posted by 2jaded2care
Does seem like this should be a new thread about healthcare, since space exploration seems to be at the bottom of everyone's priority list
For the record, I haven't suggested any solutions. I'm just trying to find out if we can agree on a definition of the problem. Note, even asking this question make me a socialist in the eyes of some. Apparently, some questions weren't meant to be posed.
when you call anyone against nat'l HC icy hearted, it sure seems to me that you have communist tendencies.
oh- and don't take the word "communist" to mean soviet or chinese. i mean in the purest sense of the word. the ideal, utopic view of communism.
Well, if you're opposed to being an empathetic, caring human being, I'd call that "cold hearted." I certainly wouldn't call it being "capitalist."
I don't know why the word communism entered this debate at all except as a red flag buzzword that easily stereotypes, vilifies and disarms your opponent in one cheap swipe.
Mactastic says it all . look very close to what he says. HMO's are making money, they arent helping the patient, they are not helping the physician, they are a business so what do you think they have their eye on? its called the dollar. This goes double for the pharmaceutical companies. i worked in the medical field for 15yrs and my wife works in a pharmacy. Its time for National Healthcare no matter what the republicans,the lobbiest,the insurance companies,the drug companies, or HMO's tell you. Mactastic is 100% correct though it may look like the working is paying for the poor, the reality is we are paying for these corporations, big business and those millionaire CEO's.
Back to Space, get a healthcare package for all, get our butts out of Iraq, get back that surplus that George blew then lets talk about grand trips to mars. maybe by then we will have a reason and the technology to do it.
Ah yes, the topic of pharmeceuticals hasn't really been discussed yet. (At least this time around ) Drug companies would definetly like to see you with a chronic condition that requires you to take one of their drugs for the rest of your life rather than actually curing you. Not that they are all bad, there is some good innovation from their R+D, but much of it is also done at universities and other publicly funded venues, so while I am subsidizing the developement of drugs I am also required to pay a premium price for them. Plus the drug compaines do things like 'favors' for doctors ranging from free samples and dinners to things approaching illegal kickbacks for prescribing one drug over another. There are many problems wrapped up in the health care debate, which is why it isn't easily solved. Not to mention some form of reasonable tort reform to keep malpractice insurance costs down.
) Drug companies would definetly like to see you with a chronic condition that requires you to take one of their drugs for the rest of your life rather than actually curing you. Not that they are all bad, there is some good innovation from their R+D, but much of it is also done at universities and other publicly funded venues, so while I am subsidizing the developement of drugs I am also required to pay a premium price for them. Plus the drug compaines do things like 'favors' for doctors ranging from free samples and dinners to things approaching illegal kickbacks for prescribing one drug over another. There are many problems wrapped up in the health care debate, which is why it isn't easily solved. Not to mention some form of reasonable tort reform to keep malpractice insurance costs down.