Spotify and Apple in Talks to Let Siri Play Spotify Content

[Expos of 1969]

Curious. Most people’s comments reflect the opposite, so now you have got me wondering what features Spotify needs to catch up to Apple on?

I like Spotify (much better discovery and suggestions than Apple) but I reluctantly subscribe to Apple as well as they allow me to keep a much bigger library than Spotify. Spotify needs to make allowances for those users who have (and listen to) more than 1000 complete albums. We all don't just listen to playlists.

 

[Wanted797]

I don’t think Apple has any requirement to allow users to set Spotify as the default music player.

But I definitely think they should allow Siri and the HomePod to work with Spotify if the user asks for it in the command.

 

[Abazigal]

Yes. Competition is good. Having all services in the hands of a few mega corporations isn’t good for consumers. When you refer to Spotify is unsustainable business model what are you referring to? That they have an ad-supported free tier? Again apple doesn’t have to be in the ad business because they make their money selling you pricy hardware. But not everyone can be in the business of selling pricey hardware.

I am referring to Spotify still being unable to turn a profit all these years long before Apple joined the music streaming fray.

The issue here is that Spotify is unable to benefit from economies of scale because their costs scale in line with their user base growth. This is despite Spotify managing to wean the majority of their subscriber base off itunes (meaning that they really aren’t paying that much to Apple), and Apple further reducing its cut of subscription revenue to 15% (down from 30%).

Spotify did this to themselves. They started with artificially low price with the intent of attracting subscribers, but they seem to have painted themselves into a corner with no way of raising prices thanks to more intense competition than ever.

You reap what you sow.

 

[Whathappened]

Apple should tell them to drop dead.

And why is that?
Anyway, Apple won´t, because Spotify is too powerful and Apple does not make decisions as stupid as the quoted post.
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I've no doubt Apple will drag the talks out as Spotify's market share continues to decrease...

Why do you lie? Spotify is way ahead of Apple and will stay there for a long time. Apple knows that. And they react to that because they want to do business and have no time for your childish good vs bad play.

 

[Abazigal]

Why do you lie? Spotify is way ahead of Apple and will stay there for a long time. Apple knows that. And they react to that because they want to do business and have no time for your childish good vs bad play.

One has to remember that not all customers are created equal. Just as the iPhone has like 14% market share but the lion's share of profits in the smartphone market, I have reason to believe that Spotify is finding itself increasingly squeezed out in countries where the iPhone commands a sizeable market share, and these also tend to be countries where consumers enjoy higher spending power and Spotify would be in a position to charge more for its services (the US being the most notable example).

In contrast, Spotify is now finding itself having to complete in markets such as India where they are practically giving their service away for free.

So yeah, if you wish to define "victory" as having more subscribers in an absolute sense, then I will gladly concede this point every single time, because to me, market share is simply the means. Profit is and always will be, the end.

 

[whsbuss]

Apple will find a way to satisfy Spotify and more importantly the EU on this. But it will not give away the store, that’s for sure.

 

[Stig McNasty]

Apple should tell them to drop dead.

And as for Microsoft with their Word, Excel… who needs 'em? They can drop dead too. Premiere? Adobe, do one! Skype? Shyte more like! Sling yer 'ook. Google, why do you bother? Chrome, Opera, Firefox - Get off my laaaand!

 

[Abazigal]

And as for Microsoft with their Word, Excel… who needs 'em? They can drop dead too. Premiere? Adobe, do one! Skype? Shyte more like! Sling yer 'ook. Google, why do you bother? Chrome, Opera, Firefox - Get off my laaaand!

One can certainly see why Apple does so much of what they do in-house, precisely so their ecosystem will never be held hostage to any one service or app provider.

 

[iDento]

"Useless".

I use Siri all day, every day for everything ranging from operating my smart home (lights and temperature), playing music, setting reminders, adding or changing my schedule, setting timers, quick calculations, asking sports or general knowledge questions, etc etc etc.

Useless, right?

Siri understands me perfectly and is able to deliver on correct commands and find answers to my questions. It works fantastically.

For comparison, I recently added an Echo Show that was on sale and I thought would fit nicely on my bedside table. I've gotten so used to controlling my HomePod with natural language that when I added the Echo Show, its inability to understand natural language and the need to remember to say things in specific commands really threw me off. This is the most popular voice assistant?

Aside from its expandability through Skills, Alexa is nowhere close to as good as Siri where it counts. I'd put Google and Siri at about even with Google ahead on general knowledge pulled from its search engine but Alexa is way behind the pack. Siri is also expandable with Siri Shortcuts which is getting a lot of support in the year that it's been out so there goes Alexa's main advantage.

"Alexa, turn off the lights"
"Sorry, I didn't find a device named lights"

https://twitter.com/metromanto/status/1161007750543024130?s=12

This is just unacceptable in a smart home assistant.

HomePod and Siri are far better than they get credit for.

I wasn’t comparing Siri to Alexa, I don’t own an Alexa device! Imagine that.

I was comparing Siri to what Siri should be and I categorize Smart Home skills as Shortcuts too, it’s just that these shortcuts are made by the manufactures of the lights or smart locks instead of you.

For anything else, it’s almost always easier to do without Siri.

 

[ipponrg]

One can certainly see why Apple does so much of what they do in-house, precisely so their ecosystem will never be held hostage to any one service or app provider.

Uh ... they are holding you hostage with their own services. Your statement is hypocritical, don’t you think? Have you intentionally forgotten what it was like when Apple tied people’s balls to their system, and why people love multi platform apps?

 

[HacKage]

Having Spotify on HomePod would maaaaybe change my mind about them and make me get one. Until then, I will stick with the multitude of Alexa compatible devices out there.

 

[Abazigal]

Uh ... they are holding you hostage with their own services. Your statement is hypocritical, don’t you think? Have you intentionally forgotten what it was like when Apple tied people’s balls to their system, and why people love multi platform apps?

Oh I remember when google maps didn’t work right on my iPhone 4s running ios 5. Or gmail no longer supporting push notifications in the stock mail app, while the gmail app remains a steaming pile of crap (such as its refusal to allow attachments from anywhere except google drive). Google drive didn’t support split-screen for the longest time, and their apps are missing a lot of core functionality compared to their browser versions.

I do use a mix of apple’s and third-party apps and services. Dropbox, google suite, todoist, bear, overcast, 1Password, just to name a few. But I also find that over time, I am slowly losing my taste for fiddling with third-party apps.

For one, the default apps that Apple ships have gotten a lot better, and I am at a point where the reduced friction the stock apps allow is starting to cancel out the gains from any increased functionality from third party apps.

Second, as I come to accept that the stock apps can provide the core functionality I need in an app, the less I am tempted to explore an endless array of options and falling down a rabbit hole of tweaking workflows and deluding myself that it’s helping my productivity somehow.

Third, once iOS 13 rolls out, I won’t be surprised if it starts showing that certain third party apps have been playing fast and loose with permissions than they otherwise should, and I will probably be having another tough internal conversation with myself over which apps I should keep around on my ios devices and which I can afford to let go. Don’t be surprised if I find myself back to using all stock apps just because it offers the best security and privacy.

I see myself trying out the improved reminders app in iOS 13 (displacing todoist and things for the time being), maybe even dropping Dropbox and trying out iCloud Drive once again (especially now that Dropbox is raising their prices and redesigning their app). Bear has been awesome for blogging, but it doesn’t allow for inking, and splitting my notes between two apps is starting to get more than a little annoying.

The point is that I just don’t care about cross-platform apps, given I am so deeply entrenched in the Apple ecosystem as I am, and my only windows computer is a work-issued one which can’t have third party apps installed anyways.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I happily use Spotify instead of Apple Music all the time. I've become accustomed to not using Siri at all (except for the most basic of this like telling me the time or to make a call). So no biggie for me, however it works out.

It's really not that hard to play what you want with about 3 taps on the Spotify screen.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

I happily use Spotify instead of Apple Music all the time. I've become accustomed to not using Siri at all (except for the most basic of this like telling me the time or to make a call). So no biggie for me, however it works out.

It's really not that hard to play what you want with about 3 taps on the Spotify screen.

I'm on the same boat!

Buy anyway when I had the Apple Music free trial (I don't know how many years ago... maybe 3 or 4) it was quite nice to be able to just tell Siri to play the soothing sounds of Avril Lavigne and One Direction using just your voice - especially on CarPlay. Not enough to make me switch to Apple music though

 

[Razeus]

Siri is used 100x more for music playback than for shortcuts. I think the data would disagree with you.

Link to this data you claim?

 

[ipponrg]

Oh I remember when google maps didn’t work right on my iPhone 4s running ios 5. Or gmail no longer supporting push notifications in the stock mail app, while the gmail app remains a steaming pile of crap (such as its refusal to allow attachments from anywhere except google drive).

Have you ever considered the reason Google removed push was so they can stop paying Microsoft money. In addition Apple hasn't added Google's non-Microsoft push API to their archaic Mail app?

I do use a mix of apple’s and third-party apps and services. Dropbox, google suite, todoist, bear, overcast, 1Password, just to name a few. But I also find that over time, I am slowly losing my taste for fiddling with third-party apps.

For one, the default apps that Apple ships have gotten a lot better, and I am at a point where the reduced friction the stock apps allow is starting to cancel out the gains from any increased functionality from third party apps.

I'm not sure if it has gotten "a lot better" for me. It's still the same as it was before.

The weather app is complete trash. I believe they get their data from Yahoo! Weather and it's incredibly inaccurate, especially for areas where the weather changes frequently such as NYC. I use Dark Sky instead which hasn't failed me in the years I've been using.

The mail app has always been mediocre for me. I primarily use Gmail, and the integration just isnt there.

I do use the Music app only because I have stored some songs on my phone. However, I use Spotify on my PC/Macbook for various reasons.

Apple Maps has been uneventful for me in both LA and NYC.

Apple Files is atrocious compared to just using Dropbox and Google Drive.

The point is that I just don’t care about cross-platform apps, given I am so deeply entrenched in the Apple ecosystem as I am, and my only windows computer is a work-issued one which can’t have third party apps installed anyways.

Fair enough. You've tweaked your workflows to conform to Apple's. The problem for me and many others is we are not so stuck on this, as we know we have more optimized flows than what Apple is trying to encourage with using their 1st party apps.

 

[Just sayin...]

I’ve (mostly) adapted to the semi brain-dead Siri in order to use it, hands-free, while driving my car. It’s been a very frustrating experience with many, many issues. Adding the ability to control Spotify via Siri would really help improve things but, in the long run, unless things improve dramatically I see Siri going the way of Cortana and Bixby: irrelevance. Every time there’s an IOS update, I hopefully turn to Siri...and am disappointed again. I’m beginning to think Apple should just license Google Assistant or Alexa and be done with it.

 

[Abazigal]

I'm not sure if it has gotten "a lot better" for me. It's still the same as it was before.

The weather app is complete trash. I believe they get their data from Yahoo! Weather and it's incredibly inaccurate, especially for areas where the weather changes frequently such as NYC. I use Dark Sky instead which hasn't failed me in the years I've been using.

The mail app has always been mediocre for me. I primarily use Gmail, and the integration just isnt there.

I do use the Music app only because I have stored some songs on my phone. However, I use Spotify on my PC/Macbook for various reasons.

Apple Maps has been uneventful for me in both LA and NYC.

Apple Files is atrocious compared to just using Dropbox and Google Drive.

Another reason is simply compatibility across the various apple devices. For example, I love overcast for Smart speed, but it’s annoying not having access to said app on my Apple TV and iMac (and Marco Arment himself has admitted that he simply doesn’t think there is a huge enough market to justify bringing his app to these platforms).

Spotify isn’t available on the Apple TV or Apple Watch, and while I am using Soor, it seems to have become increasingly laggy of late.

The mail app supports group contacts on iCloud, something third-party mail apps like gmail and Spark don’t. The only reason why I am even using the gmail app on my iphone and ipad is because my school uses a more secure version of google services which for the longest time could only be accessed via the browser, and only just recently got supported by the gmail app (and only said app). All attempts to add the service to my mail app have failed.

I am currently using Cardhop to allow me to (effectively) use iCloud group contracts in gmail, but it only works with one group at a time. And I am hooked on mail drop, because gmail stubbornly refuses to support the files app.

Safari supports ad-blockers. I use mainly WhatsApp and telegram but do occasionally use Siri on my Apple Watch to dictate a quick message to my friends out of convenience.

The files app is weird, I concur, but I think I am finally starting to get the hang of it.

Reminders at least show up pretty reliably in my watch’s Siri watch face.

So there seems to be a common recurring theme where the overall experience to be had using stock apps (at least calendar, mail, reminders and notes) is greater than the sum of the individual apps, especially given that the stock apps are the only ones that get to enjoy deep system integration with Shortcuts, iCloud and Siri.

Maybe I am inadvertently making the case for an even stronger antitrust suit against Apple? I do not deny that if Apple were to allow us to switch default apps with no strings attached, I probably have even less of an incentive to use any of their stock apps.

 

[wigby]

Link to this data you claim?

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/12/17765390/voice-alexa-siri-assistant-amazon-echo-google-assistant

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

I understand that Spotify pays artists less than Apple does. I am not saying it is good or bad but do artists not make a choice as to whether they want to have their music available? I believe they can opt out of one or both of these streaming services if they do desire. If you feel you are not being fairly compensated at your work place would you not move on or start to lobby for better remuneration?

That is an entirely valid point, however, this isn’t a case of, “well I don’t like that, so I won’t do that.”

Frame it in this context: Walmart.

Walmart comes to town, all the local mom & pop shops die off. Wages go down. Everyone becomes enslaved to the blue devil.

If spotify keeps gaining members, then it would make sense for artists to have their music there. They’d have no choice but to accept the scraps that get thrown their way.

That’s why I’ll never even install it. I want musicians to be around 5 years from now.
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And for that, I agree with you 100%.

Thank you. I find that my argument falls on a lot of deaf ears.

 

[Expos of 1969]

That is an entirely valid point, however, this isn’t a case of, “well I don’t like that, so I won’t do that.”

Frame it in this context: Walmart.

Walmart comes to town, all the local mom & pop shops die off. Wages go down. Everyone becomes enslaved to the blue devil.

If spotify keeps gaining members, then it would make sense for artists to have their music there. They’d have no choice but to accept the scraps that get thrown their way.

That’s why I’ll never even install it. I want musicians to be around 5 years from now.
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Thank you. I find that my argument falls on a lot of deaf ears.

But do you use and support Apple Music? How much more does Apple pay musicians than Spotify?

 

[kyykesko]

Apple should finally pull their head out of their backside and realize people have different ways of using the devices. I won't be switching over to Apple Music even if it's the only platform available on iDevices. Had some bought albums in Music I listened to every now and then but had to delete them all as my MB defaulted half the time to playing those instead of continuing playing my Spotify list. Even now it shows one or the other of the song names and tries to play them even though they're not even on my phone!

Allowing everyone pick their favorite music app and have full control over it is a good thing. As long as they lock things up I have so many fewer reasons to buy Watch, Homepod, Airpods and the rest of the crap relying (too much) on Siri. Or to use Siri to begin with. In a way I'm glad Siri is as bad as it is, I don't miss having to repeat my commands half a dozen times to the phone. "Calling mom!" -"**** no, I wanted to navigate to work!".

 

[whsbuss]

Apple should finally pull their head out of their backside and realize people have different ways of using the devices. I won't be switching over to Apple Music even if it's the only platform available on iDevices. Had some bought albums in Music I listened to every now and then but had to delete them all as my MB defaulted half the time to playing those instead of continuing playing my Spotify list. Even now it shows one or the other of the song names and tries to play them even though they're not even on my phone!

Allowing everyone pick their favorite music app and have full control over it is a good thing. As long as they lock things up I have so many fewer reasons to buy Watch, Homepod, Airpods and the rest of the crap relying (too much) on Siri. Or to use Siri to begin with. In a way I'm glad Siri is as bad as it is, I don't miss having to repeat my commands half a dozen times to the phone. "Calling mom!" -"**** no, I wanted to navigate to work!".

Giving Spotify access to SiriKit won't solve your issues.

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

But do you use and support Apple Music? How much more does Apple pay musicians than Spotify?

I do use and support Apple Music.

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/12/25/streaming-music-services-pay-2019/

While anecdotal to that, when it comes to independent and smaller artists (ie, not Metallica) I make it a point to buy physical copies and merch from them. Especially independent bands in person. Directly putting gas in their tank goes a long way.

 

[dominiongamma]

Bought a HomePod and returned it when I realized it couldn't do Spotify. As soon as Spotify is back, I'll buy another one.

You should have done some research before you bought it