Spotify Blames Apple for Loss of iPhone Volume Button Control of Connected Devices

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

If you save us your "sanctimonious 💩", we can talk about it. The US does the same, and even more, in the name of "national security".

Did someone say sanctimonious?

Tim is all for other people's businesses being regulated, until people start scrutinising that sweet bag Apple take from Google.

Tim Cook warns of ‘data-industrial complex’ in call for comprehensive US privacy laws

‘Our own information is being weaponized against us with military efficiency’

www.theverge.com

 

[MacAddict1978]

So integrate it then? It’s not like there is a shortage of users requesting it.

Relative to the number of Spotify users who own HomePods, which is probably not many since the HomePod was for most of its lifetime an Apple Music centric device that only worked natively with Apple Music.

It's great Apple magically opened it up to competing music services (after dismal sales, antitrust investigations and law suits that had nothing to do with... Cupertino did that because it was what was good for customers right?). But that late move did not exactly draw in masses of people to buy HomePods.

I'd wager that IOS Spotify users that have HomePods is low single digits - south of 5%.

Spotify Connect requires a few simple lines of code that are painless for speaker brands to implement, and Spotify takes it from there with a very well built out platform for switching speakers, rooms, etc across pretty much every brand except HomePod.

It's not as easy as "use Apple's API." For one, Spotify is the only servie that has technology like this which is a whole platform they have built out. You can't just connect Appholes API to it. If someone has speakers form 4 different brands that all work with Spotify Connect, those all show because all those speakers are visible through Spotify Connect on the same wi-fi network. The Apple API is stand alone, does not play well with others like it's maker - and could even possible require a special version the Spotify App just for HomePod users. No one is doing that for a small number of users. While I'm sure they could find a way to shoehorn the Apple API in there somehow - it would be messy and require a lot of resources. Apple is surely not making it easy to integrate their speaker into a well-built cloud based ecosystem.

 

[BaldiMac]

The EU already announced they intend to regulate the music streaming market to ensure more money goes to artists and more transparency over recommendation algorithms, use of AI etc...

Okay? That doesn't change the fact that they aren't regulated under the DMA. Maybe the DMA will become a better regulation in the future. I sure hope so. But that doesn't change what it is now.

I think the DMA was aimed at more "general" service providers so that's why music streaming didn't get included, but it doesn't mean the EU is not willing to eventually regulate other kinds of providers.

How is music more or less general than video?

 

[cjsuk]

EU wants at least one tech company to show to people that they are relevant.

They still are! Hang on, err erm, err, ahh, erm, actually no Philips bought everything out and sold it to the Chinese...

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Plenty of different companies to buy your smartphone from too…

Sure, but I buy what I like. Doesn't mean I agree with everything Apple says or does. What kind of sheepish life would that be?

 

[Homme]

This is rich coming from a company which only recently prevented users from listening to music via a VPN connection outside from their region unless they have Spotify premium. It is so stupid that I deleted Spotify after having it for many years and will never have it again. Any other music streaming service will ( and hopefully) never think of having an option like this . Thank god for Amazon music

 

[MilaM]

This is rich coming from a company which only recently prevented users from listening to music via a VPN connection outside from their region unless they have Spotify premium. It is so stupid that I deleted Spotify after having it for many years and will never have it again. Any other music streaming service will ( and hopefully) never think of having an option like this . Thank god for Amazon music

The demand most likely came from the big music labes representing artists. It's highly likely more streaming services will soon have to do the same.

 

[waltman]

I don't get it. Can't the iPhone control volume controls when it connects via bluetooth to a speaker, smart tv, or car?

 

[bsolar]

Okay? That doesn't change the fact that they aren't regulated under the DMA. Maybe the DMA will become a better regulation in the future. I sure hope so. But that doesn't change what it is now.

I don't argue what it's in the DMA: I argue that there is a public position by the EU to "Spotify charges 25% of revenue on its platform for digital content, that's okay". The position of the EU is that the current status-quo is not OK.

How is music more or less general than video?

I don't know either to be honest, the EU for some reasons considers it differently than music services. Maybe there is some document in the legislative process with the rationale but I didn't look yet.

 

[BaldiMac]

I don't argue what it's in the DMA: I argue that there is a public position by the EU to "Spotify charges 25% of revenue on its platform for digital content, that's okay". The position of the EU is that the current status-quo is not OK.

Except I never claimed that was the EU's position. The quote was a restatement of the position of the poster I responded to, not the EU.

 

[steve09090]

They've experienced a catalogue of silly app rejections from Apple, i think it's understandable that they don't want to allocate engineering resource to something that will just lead to another.

You’re basing this on the comments from Spotify. Kind of feeds its own neuroticism.

Guess we are both right, your experience might be good, but that doesn't make the product any less of a dumpster fire for me!


Likewise, just because it works for you doesn't mean it magically stops being terrible for me and many other people ...

Use things the way they are intended, and they magically work.

I have a front loader washing machine, and for the life of me I cannot magically load my clothes through the top.

 

[NOATAK]

Use things the way they are intended, and they magically work.

I have a front loader washing machine, and for the life of me I cannot magically load my clothes through the top.

I guess your front loader and Apple Music are in a secret competition for how many ways they can fail expectations. Some products are just poorly designed, no need to sugarcoat the truth.

 

[mcled53]

Apple should fix this. I use Spotify to stream to a 30 year old stereo connected to a Raspberry Pi. I don't want a Homepod that is going to be obsolete in 5 years, thank you very much.

I have two original homepods that work with no issues.

 

[svish]

Bad for users. Hopefully it can make a comeback somehow.

 

[Krizoitz]

Sure, but I buy what I like. Doesn't mean I agree with everything Apple says or does. What kind of sheepish life would that be?

There’s a difference between
“I don’t like every decision Apple makes”

And
“Because I don’t like every decision Apple makes I think they should be forced to do things I want them to”

The former is rational, the latter is not.

Finally, only people who can’t back up their arguments with facts and reason have to resort to calling people “sheep”. Next time, be better.

 

[bluedoggiant]

I can’t be the only one to notice Spotify has been slow to adopt ’s latest APIs. Starting to feel sleazy.

 

[steve09090]

I guess your front loader and Apple Music are in a secret competition for how many ways they can fail expectations. Some products are just poorly designed, no need to sugarcoat the truth.

That’s true. Like an argument or ridiculous claim without substance. Apple Music works perfectly for me. I guess I know how to use it.

 

[AppliedMicro]

This is exactly Spotify not willing to use the API's provided. Why don't they want to support AirPlay2?

Because they have Spotify Connect - which offers advantages over AirPlay.

You assume that Apple changes an API just to make Spotify having to change their code?

They removed that API - likely to nudge third parties and consumers towards AirPlay. For which they‘re collecting licensing fees from device manufacturers.

Many of us predicted that the EU will eventually mandate what features a product must have and what it must look like. Developers will then be able to come to the EU and demand Apple add a feature they feel necessary. Looks like you are hoping for that to happen. Innovation through regulation?

Being able to control the volume of audio playback with volume buttons certainly is „innovative“ and benefits consumers - in the Apple iOS ecosystem that has taken it away.

I work in tech. Believe me, API turf wars are super common. I haven't seen many more clear cut examples of who's API should be used. It's like whining to Microsoft about Pages not working on a Windows machine. That would be up to Apple to make Pages compatible.

Once again, this is not Apple's fault, and it is not Apple's problem.

…unless it becomes Apple‘s Problem - such as through the Digital Markets Act.

The way it reads to me is that the same API to integrate with HomePods is used to integrate with other hardware. I don't think a HomePod is required. Anybody know differently?

Side buttons still work to control volume for AirPlay devices - and that includes third-party speakers supporting AirPlay.

The issue is that there’s no volume control for other streaming APIs (Spotify connect or Sonos).

 

[Velli]

Spotify used to support AirPlay some years ago and they can do that along with supporting devices that connect directly with Spotify API's. Your welcome to do business with Spotify only and save money, I am not trying to pull any "rank" on you. My complaints is that Spotify can do both, but chooses not to do so, as it has got manufacturers to implement their proprietary solution. If it's only about cost, why don't you make another version of speakers supporting AirPlay and sell them at a higher price?

Yes, Spotify could do both. But that wouldn’t solve the issue at hand here. Let me explain:

Spotify streams to the speakers. iPhone controls the playback. The stream never enters the phone. The main benefit to this is that music doesn’t stop if you leave the house, plus that a stream can (depending on the speaker) be initiated without even using the app.

Here’s the issue: Even if Spotify chooses to support Airplay 2, it only benefits speakers with Airplay 2. It does not fix the issue for Spotify Connect or Airplay 1 speakers. Those customers used to be able to control volume using the side buttons. Now they cannot, due to a change imposed by Apple, and Spotify CANNOT fix this issue by “implementing Apple’s API”. Because each of the speaker manufacturers would also have to do it, and in many cases this is not possible because the hardware is not capable.

This doesn’t even take into account that Spotify Connect offers certain features that Airplay doesn’t, or that Airplay 2 sounds worse. It would be great for Airplay fans if Spotify would support Airplay - sure. But it DOES NOT fix the issue at hand, so it is irrelevant. And it is poor journalism by MacRumors to suggest as much.

To be clear, I am not an engineer so I don’t know all the low level programming details. I do know the implications on cost, time to market, and not least limits on choice of SOC that supporting Airplay puts on the speaker manufacturer. Your last comment is, sorry, pretty ignorant. Do you realize the costs involved with adding an extra SKU? This is not necessarily worth the investment. And in any case, this is a decision made by the hardware manufacturer, not by Spotify. Plus, it won’t help the existing products in the market that are hardware limited. (Our speakers do support both, I am just saying that I understand why some don’t).

Look, I loathe Spotify for all sorts of reasons, and I fully understand why the auto-reply is to hate on Spotify. I do pay them, and five(!) other premium streaming services, for business reasons and because I have a specific use case where only they offer a solution (play back a playlist without access to a control device). But objectively, Spotify has no less of a right to decide which protocol their customer should use, than Apple. You can’t objectively say that it is okay for Apple to use their muscles to enforce a specific API, but not okay for Spotify to use their muscles to enforce a specific API.

I love Apple, and I mostly hate Spotify, but in this specific case, Spotify is right. Apple is trying to bully streaming services into using their inferior API.

 

[dwaite]

I think Apple not allowing them to advertise their prices directly in the Spotify app without paying Apple its fees is their main argument for not optimizing the iOS and iPadOS apps.

So they are penalizing their own paid subscribers because they don't like their contract with Apple?

Is Spotify substantially better on other platforms? It is somewhat crap on the Mac too (where they have no restrictions on advertising services in-app at people)

If its more profitable for Spotify when you use their apps outside of Apple's ecosystem or on desktop computers then obviously they're not going to make the iOS/iPadOS experience on par with those.

Thats not how a sane business works. That is cutting one's nose off to spite their face. Not liking some tech company doesn't justify penalizing your paid customers and is a good way to lose customers.

 

[dwaite]

Airplay should be boycotted if for no other reason than Apple tried to hide that Airplay2 has lower sound quality than Airplay 1.

Airplay 2 supports lossless audio.

 

[Velli]

Airplay 2 supports lossless audio.

Only if you have information I don’t.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Excited for the EU bureaucrats to start dictating to Apple how their software and hardware works again!

You want regulation to be the driver of innovator? You want politicians do design your phones?

If we're talking about enabling use of volume buttons across audio apps for controlling playback volume:
👉 Yes, I would welcome politicians and EU bureaucrats to start "dictating" Apple into designing their software for a convenient and consistent user experience (in that instance).

Because the state of things today isn't:

I open whatever app, start streaming something to my Bluetooth speaker:
I can control the volume of that audio with the volume buttons.

I open the Apple Music app, start streaming something to my AirPlay speaker:
I can control the volume of that audio with the volume buttons.

I open the Cs Music Pro app, start streaming something to my AirPlay speaker:
I can control the volume of that audio with the volume buttons.

I open the Sonos app, start streaming something to my Sonos speaker:
I can not control the volume of that audio with the volume buttons.

I open the Spotify app, start streaming something to my Sonos speaker:
I can not control the volume of that audio with the volume buttons.

👉 That doesn't make much sense. That's not a good design. That's a broken design (and probably intentionally so).

👉 And it can be fixed! Accessing volume button input to control the volume in the audio app you're currently using is neither rocket science nor a kernel-level security risk.

Apple is trying to bully streaming services into using their inferior API.

Not only them - but also speaker manufacturers to support it (though they can support both - and AirPlay arguably also has its advantages over Spotify Connect).

 

[mrochester]

If we're talking about enabling use of volume buttons across audio apps for controlling playback volume:
👉 Yes, I would welcome politicians and EU bureaucrats to start "dictating" Apple into designing their software for a convenient and consistent user experience.

Because the state of things today isn't:

I open whatever app, start streaming something to my Bluetooth speaker:
I can control the volume of that audio with the volume buttons.

I open the Apple Music app, start streaming something to my AirPlay speaker:
I can control the volume of that audio with the volume buttons.

I open the Cs Music Pro app, start streaming something to my AirPlay speaker:
I can control the volume of that audio with the volume buttons.

I open the Sonos app, start streaming something to my Sonos speaker:
I can not control the volume of that audio with the volume buttons.

I open the Spotify app, start streaming something to my Sonos speaker:
I can not control the volume of that audio with the volume buttons.

That doesn't make much sense. That's not a good design. That's a broken design (and probably intentionally so).


Not only them - but also speaker manufacturers to support it (though they can support both - and AirPlay arguably also has its advantages over Spotify Connect).

The volume buttons will only ever be able to control the volume of one audio source. Deciding what source they are controlling is the question, and you have tradeoffs no matter which way you implement.

 

[dwaite]

It's pretty wild that Apple tied this feature to their Homepod offerings. Does anyone actually buy those? I don't think I've ever heard anyone (offline) talk about them.

Sonos is also removing this functionality.

It's strange to me that people adamantly defend Apple's position here. It prevents users from having an "it just works" experience if they dare to not use Apple services. Not a good look.

That was Spotify's statement on what Apple said. They are a pretty unreliable narrator here.

What does 'supporting HomePod' mean? Many here sorta assume they _meant_ that Apple told them they had to support AirPlay 2. But what the heck does that mean? I'm assuming that Spotify doesn't actively block the ability for audio from their app to be sent to HomePod speakers - that is a system function that is effectively free, unless you have decided to explicitly block it.