Spotify Blames Apple for Loss of iPhone Volume Button Control of Connected Devices

[bsolar]

Maybe? That was my point. The arbitrariness of the DMAs definition of gatekeeper. How is Spotify not a "online intermediation service"?

(2) ‘online intermediation services’ means services which meet all of the following requirements:

(a) they constitute information society services within the meaning of point (b) of Article 1(1) of Directive (EU) 2015/1535 of the European Parliament and of the Council (12);​

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(b) they allow business users to offer goods or services to consumers, with a view to facilitating the initiating of direct transactions between those business users and consumers, irrespective of where those transactions are ultimately concluded;​

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(c) they are provided to business users on the basis of contractual relationships between the provider of those services and business users which offer goods or services to consumers;​

I don't think it qualifies but I see how it can be interpreted differently. I do agree there is a level of arbitrariness in the DMA, but that's also expected. Apple itself is leveraging different interpretations of the DMA to impose rules that others argue are a violation.

I think the DMA will need years to fully mature and that will be in part through court cases that will establish which interpretation is "correct", in part through amendments.

 

[MilaM]

Having multiple standards is better for competition.

Possibly. But I don't see them competing in a meaningful way. On Apple we are mostly stuck with AirPlay2. I don't think Android devices support Air Play. And on Android you are probably stuck with whatever they use for streaming the content.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

You seem to have forgotten your own point. You said that music didn't qualify and video did because there wasn't as much competition in the video market.

However, I pointed out that Amazon qualified despite being in a more competitive market than Spotify.

That doesn't address my point? What does Amazon qualifying have to do with anything we're discussing here?

 

[BaldiMac]

I don't think it qualifies but I see how it can be interpreted differently. I do agree there is a level of arbitrariness in the DMA, but that's also expected. Apple itself is leveraging different interpretations of the DMA to impose rules that others argue are a violation.

I think the DMA will need years to fully mature and that will be in part through court cases that will establish which interpretation is "correct", in part through amendments.

The only reason it doesn't is because the EU decided not to include music streaming services. That's it. No other reason. No problem with interpretation. It was a deliberate decision to arbitrarily target specific companies in specific industries.

 

[BaldiMac]

That doesn't address my point? What does Amazon qualifying have to do with anything we're discussing here?

Like I said, you seem to forgotten your original point. You said:

"Probably because there's legitimately no competitor in YouTube's space. Plenty of places to stream music, vanishingly few to stream user generated video in a not-social-media context."

That implies they are only regulating industries with a lack of competition. However, Amazon's industry has more competition than Spotify.

 

[MilaM]

The only reason it doesn't is because the EU decided not to include music streaming services. That's it. No other reason. No problem with interpretation. It was a deliberate decision to arbitrarily target specific companies in specific industries.

But why would they? Competition in the music streaming space is quite healthy.

 

[I7guy]

But why would they? Competition in the music streaming space is quite healthy.

As is competition in the cell phone market.

 

[MilaM]

As is competition in the cell phone market.

You're in the wrong thread. Nobody is discussing the "cell phone market".

 

[BaldiMac]

But why would they? Competition in the music streaming space is quite healthy.

Then why does Amazon qualify? Their industry is far more competitive than music streaming. And music streaming isn't much different than the browser industry when you look at market share in the EU

 

[MilaM]

Then why does Amazon qualify? Their industry is far more competitive than music streaming. And music streaming isn't much different than the browser industry when you look at market share in the EU

Because Amazon is absolutely dominating online retail in many countries. Around 60% marketshare by revenue where I live.

 

[BaldiMac]

Because Amazon is absolutely dominating online retail in many countries. Around 60% marketshare by revenue where I live.

So... similar to Spotify's 56% by your own number.

As far as Europe as a whole, Amazon is closer to 10%.

 

[surferfb]

Because Amazon is absolutely dominating online retail in many countries. Around 60% marketshare by revenue where I live.

And Spotify has 56% of the music streaming market share in the EU. So again, why is Music Streaming excluded from the DMA? If Apple is big enough at <30% of the market (or 101 million EU App Store users), certainly Spotify at 55% (or over 150 million EU users) is.

 

[chandler55]

So companies invest money into R&R, develop technology so that they can give it away for free and make it open source ?
hardware manufacturers from Eu and China can copy that technology and create their own products without investing in R&D ?
is that the ask ?

i think if you make a phone that works preferably with your own api, and it has certification costs for those speakers/tv, there is some monopolistic play there. they should have to unblock similar functionality to competition to keep being a free market

 

[MilaM]

And Spotify has 56% of the music streaming market share in the EU. So again, why is Music Streaming excluded from the DMA? If Apple is big enough at <30% of the market (or 101 million EU App Store users), certainly Spotify at 55% (or over 150 million EU users) is.

It's very easy to switch music streaming services. Maybe a matter of 10 Minutes. And you still have access to 99% of the same catalogue. Operating systems are very sticky on the other hand. You loose all your app and media purchases, some of your gadgets stop working. You have to find replacements for apps that you use. But I should not have to explain this to you if you asked that question in good faith. It's quite obvious why they are not comparable.

 

[mrochester]

It's very easy to switch music streaming services. Maybe a matter of 10 Minutes. And you still have access to 99% of the same catalogue. Operating systems are very sticky on the other hand. You loose all your app and media purchases, some of your gadgets stop working. You have to find replacements for apps that you use. But I should not have to explain this to you if you asked that question in good faith. It's quite obvious why they are not comparable.

You are looking at that from the consumer perspective, you need to look from a business perspective.

Music producers have no choice but to deal with Spotify. You have to be on Spotify (the same way we hear people say that app developers have to be on the App Store). That gives Spotify a huge amount of power and control over the businesses that make and sell music catalogues to impose unfair terms and control the music production and distribution markets.

Remedies might be to force gatekeeper music streaming services to allow for easy transfer of music catalogues and playlists to competing services, elimination of tying other content to the music streaming service (such as podcasts or video content) and equal terms for all music producers/distributers (direct payment for a stream). Probably a lot more access to data around what is streamed, for how long, etc etc.

 

[MilaM]

Music producers have no choice but to deal with Spotify. You have to be on Spotify (the same way we hear people say that app developers have to be on the App Store). That gives Spotify a huge amount of power and control over the businesses that make and sell music catalogues to impose unfair terms and control the music production and distribution markets.

What about the big music labels? I think they have much more power than Spotify. They are the ones who actually dictate what Artists are being paid. I'm talking about Universal, Warner and Sony by the way.

 

[BaldiMac]

It's very easy to switch music streaming services. Maybe a matter of 10 Minutes. And you still have access to 99% of the same catalogue. Operating systems are very sticky on the other hand. You loose all your app and media purchases, some of your gadgets stop working. You have to find replacements for apps that you use. But I should not have to explain this to you if you asked that question in good faith. It's quite obvious why they are not comparable.

You’re cherry picking examples from the gatekeepers. It's very easy to switch switch browsers or search engines or online marketplaces as well. They still qualify.

 

[mrochester]

What about the big music labels? I think they have much more power than Spotify. They are the ones who actually dictate what Artists are being paid. I'm talking about Universal, Warner and Sony by the way.

The EU would have to expand the DMA to cover that market then. In the music streaming market Spotify has a huge amount of power and control over the music producers/distributers.

 

[I7guy]

As is competition in the cell phone market.

I was making a comparison, which was an apt one.

 

[surferfb]

And to be clear, the EU has every right to protect Spotify. You could make a strong argument it is the EU's responsibility to look out for their major corporations when competing against US tech. But just save us the sanctimonious 💩 about the EU only caring about competition and leveling the playing field. It's clearly designed to knee-cap American "big tech" because the EU is upset their regulatory regime stifles innovation and rather than relax the rules to let Europe compete in the open market, they want to make it harder for everyone else to do business so their companies can "catch up."

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

The AAPL brigade get very twitchy whenever the regulators are mentioned don't they.

Europe is just beginning

 

[chandler55]

No one is keeping Spotify at a disadvantage. They're just being lazy and want everything handed to them. Literally, just do it. That's all it takes.

if they implement the solution itill only work on airplay devices

 

[Krizoitz]

Probably because there's legitimately no competitor in YouTube's space. Plenty of places to stream music, vanishingly few to stream user generated video in a not-social-media context.

Plenty of different companies to buy your smartphone from too…

 

[Krizoitz]

The only reason it doesn't is because the EU decided not to include music streaming services. That's it. No other reason. No problem with interpretation. It was a deliberate decision to arbitrarily target specific companies in specific industries.

You forgot the key part: from specific countries, specifically not EU countries.

It’s straight up protectionism poorly disguised as “helping customers”

 

[MilaM]

But just save us the sanctimonious 💩 about the EU only caring about competition and leveling the playing field.

If you save us your "sanctimonious 💩", we can talk about it. The US does the same, and even more, in the name of "national security".