Spotify Calls Apple's App Store Restrictions 'An Abusive Power Grab'

[ArPe]

Spotify are being disingenuous like Epic. You can sign up for these and other services on the Mac or Windows web browser and Apple can’t take a cut of their money through the mobile app.

 

[fncd]

Yet.

Disney+ started out a a streaming service, but has since moved on to transactional video on demand with titles like Mulan and Raya.

Because it’s not difficult to see these services potentially becoming App Store replacements one day, it’s understandable that Apple be more cautious with them in the short term. Especially considering how App Store vitality and viability is important to both Apple and its users (more on that below).

To me at least, it makes more sense for Apple to be more cautious upfront (and then loosen up later on once things like revenue share agreements have been ironed out). Rather than let them flood the App Store like no tomorrow, and then trying to manage them afterwards...

This is the sort of behavior that can be seen as anti-competitive though, and I feel like that is what is going to come back to bite them. Very well written post though. Cheers.

 

[Abazigal]

This is the sort of behavior that can be seen as anti-competitive though, and I feel like that is what is going to come back to bite them. Very well written post though. Cheers.

Thank you. I don’t think this behaviour is anticompetitive, not least because Apple doesn’t have a monopoly share in smartphones. But this is a decision that will ultimately be fought in the courts, and not online message boards.

 

[duffman9000]

Directly competing services, like music streaming, absolutely want & need to be price competitive. You're too caught up in defending Apple to be capable of seeing the problem.

You're caught up in thinking pricing is the only way to compete. Tidal doesn't try to compete with Apple Music on price.

And this isn't a defense of Apple (your bias is showing), but my thinking is somewhat like Apple's. Don't let the other guy dictate what your app does and your pricing model. Look at iPhone and Macs. Competitive pricing doesn't drive Apple.

 

[Darth.Titan]

Spotify is the number 1 app to stream music.

Apple has the biggest music library but it literally has the WORST playlists and makes it harder to find content, I know everyone hates satellite radio, believe me I know, but after my fighting with Sirius XM to cancel their service I found myself switching between Apple Music, spotify, pandora, tidal, then I realized that the Sirius XM app is incredible better than their satellite counterpart because it features HQ audio.

Add the fact it has a ton of exclusive channels, it was a no brainer. Then I use Shazaam to find the songs which automatically adds it to my apple music library.

With that said I am not going to lie, apple really has made it difficult for outside platforms to work with their system.

I know Spotify has the most marketshare. That's common knowledge. But the fact is their most popular (by far) option is their free tier. That makes it very difficult for them to actually make money. I've read several articles stating that they consistently operate in the red.

That is what I was referring to, not market position or whose service is "better".

 

[bobenhaus]

New Laws are coming !

It's just a matter of time !

Yup. Apple cant dictate how other services make money .

 

[kmann1983]

My opinion on the Apple Store changed when they got petty with Amazon and nerfed the Kindle app so it didn't have the "same smooth experience on Android and iOS". Steve got upset and changed policies.

Now? I'm 100% for either a.) mandated allowance of third-party stores or b.) side-loading binaries without a Mac / XCode / limitations.

Apple could still control, ish, by still signing and just banning developer accounts specifically for abuse.

But the excuse of "but it'll make the system worse" -- are only from people who have never used more than the AppStore on their Macs and never installed third party anything in the history of ever... but still use Facebook.

 

[duffman9000]

My opinion on the Apple Store changed when they got petty with Amazon and nerfed the Kindle app so it didn't have the "same smooth experience on Android and iOS". Steve got upset and changed policies.

Now? I'm 100% for either a.) mandated allowance of third-party stores or b.) side-loading binaries without a Mac / XCode / limitations.

Apple could still control, ish, by still signing and just banning developer accounts specifically for abuse.

But the excuse of "but it'll make the system worse" -- are only from people who have never used more than the AppStore on their Macs and never installed third party anything in the history of ever... but still use Facebook.

I doubt we will see anything like a mandated allowance of third-party stores. There will fierce opposition from Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo. *A* is probably not going anywhere.

 

[Vagabond TV]

At an App Store antitrust hearing that took place today, Spotify and Match Group (the company behind Tinder) accused Apple of abusing its App Store powers to to disadvantage rival services, reports Bloomberg. Spotify chief Legal Officer Horacio Gutierrez said that Apple's rules are "nothing more than an abusive power grab."

Spotify has had an ongoing feud with Apple since the debut of Apple Music. Apple Music is priced at $9.99, a price point that Spotify is unable to match due to the 30 percent cut that Apple takes, as it does not leave enough margin for Spotify to make money. Spotify has complained that it has no choice but to charge more on iOS devices and no alternative as Apple does not allow it to offer alternative signup or payment options in its app.

Match, meanwhile, complained that it had wanted to add ID verification rules to boost the app's safety in Taiwan, but Apple would not allow it to do so. Match contacted an Apple executive, who allegedly told the company that it should be glad Apple was not taking all of its revenue. "You owe us every dime you've made," the Apple executive reportedly said.

The "Antitrust Applied: Examining Competition in App Stores" hearing is examining App Stores and mobile competition, and is focused on Apple and Google. Apple's Chief Compliance Officer Kyle Andeer was in attendance to defend Apple.

Andeer stuck to Apple's standard talking points about how the App Store revolutionized software distribution and made it easier for developers to reach new users. Andeer said that Apple's strict App Store rules are designed to meet privacy, safety, and performance standards.

Apple's App Store rules are also facing a U.S. Department of Justice antitrust investigation, and Apple is currently gearing up for a showdown over its App Store policies with Epic Games.

Article Link: Spotify Calls Apple's App Store Restrictions 'An Abusive Power Grab'

I am appalled at some of the comments here which defend Apple’s suspect restrictions and dismiss the anti-trust suit against it as if it’s anti-capitalism. First of all, capitalism doesn’t mean that corporations are excused from abiding by regulations intended to protect the market and actually uphold capitalism. Second, you don’t tell a seller of handcrafted products to build its own mall if the only mall available to contain this seller’s products and sell it to the buyers prevented that seller to sell those goods in the mall. The next logical step for that seller in this analogy is to question the legality of its restriction because a mall should be expected to offer a space for the seller’s goods, or there shoulder be another mall available to sell them.

This is the reality: Apple is a big tech company that keeps tight reins on applications distributed by their monopolistic App Store. They are, by default, prohibitive of applications due to cryptic and stringent App Store standards, which aren’t fully defined or imposed equally by Apple across all the apps. It intentionally restricts standard app features necessary for an app’s availability in the iOS market, like what happened to Spotify. If not an outright violation, there is, at least, a point of contention in this situation: one that should be clarified by a legal decision.

I am all for reviewing the compliance of Apple’s policies with anti-trust regulations. Spotify’s dilemma is likely only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[hanske68]

The only thing important is an equal playing field. Apple should use the same store for its own products, following the same rules. Right now Apple "privileges" itself, which is not fair play.

One day Apple should separate the AppStore as an separate legal entity. If they do not do that voluntarily, they should be forced to. Next, Apple should offer their products (Safari, Finder, tools etc) to the App Store just like everybody has to. No different treatment, backdoors or private API's for Apple.

 

[bobenhaus]

If anyone cared to look up the definition of "monopoly" they'd see right there that the App Store is one. And by the way- monopolies are illegal

Fanboi's arguments are based on emotions and not logic. Not going to be able to convince them. " Apple devices and Operating Systems are so beautiful and flawless, nothing can be better in life".

 

[Ethosik]

Yep. Let’s get Netflix, Hulu, Prime, etc to do that too then eh?

Games are highly interactive apps. I know Netflix has some, but typically movies and TV shows have 0 user interaction.

 

[kingtj1971]

You know, 25 years ago, Apple was about to self-destruct. Now they're the most valuable company on Earth. Perhaps if these little whiners like Tile, Epic, and Spotify innovated more and complained less, they might be able to compete, survive, and thrive.

This isn't flag football, this is capitalism. Stop your complaining and MAKE something.

To be fair, I'm not sure what else you'd want someone like Spotify to "make" to solve their issue here? I agree there's a lot of whining going on. But at the end of the day? Spotify happens to have a business streaming music, just like Apple pretty much pioneered with iTunes and Apple Music. It does suck for them that they're unable to charge the same price Apple does while trying to distribute their app over their network ... but it is what it is. Apple isn't blocking Spotify from running on its devices or even blocking it from existing on their App Store, so that seems to me like it proves they're not being "anti competitive". Spotify will just have to charge more for their subscriptions for iOS devices, IMO. And the "fix" for that being a problem for them would probably involve adding some extra features you only get on the iOS platform?

 

[Ethosik]

Well, I don’t remember the last time the Spotify app sent me a random notification to subscribe or try a new album like Apple Music does, so I’ll go out on a limb and say they aren’t allowed to do that.

Last time I used Netflix I got notifications related to new content.

 

[tangfish]

It’s not really a ‘power grab’ if said power emanates from something the accused party natively created out of nothing. That is like Danny DeVito complaining that Shaq is hogging all the height... while perched atop his shoulders with the best view in the house.

 

[Ethosik]

I didn’t say Spotify invented music streaming, I said they created a streaming service. Innovation means something better? well to me Apple Music is not better than Spotify. They are both the same. I don’t see innovation, they both provide music.

Apple just wishes they had come up with Apple Music and Apple TV+ much earlier so they could block Netflix and Spotify the way they are blocking Microsoft’s xCloud now that they have Apple Arcade. They would say some ******** of having to approve Netflix content in the AppStore.

I didn’t realize Apple Arcade is the ONLY place to get games on your iPhone. Have you looked at the App Store? Look, there are games you can buy that are NOT part of Apple Arcade.

 

[Ethosik]

Except if you want a hamburger you have limitless restaurants. If you want an iOS app, you have one store.

If I want a McDonalds hamburger, I can’t go to Burger King. The market is Smartphone Apps. NOT iOS apps. Smartphone apps includes Android.

 

[fncd]

Games are highly interactive apps. I know Netflix has some, but typically movies and TV shows have 0 user interaction.

So now you are grading streaming based on the amount of interactivity? The goalposts are always being moved to benefit apple by users of this forum.

It honestly seems like half of the people posting here are just apple employees paid to defend them to the death.

 

[fncd]

If I want a McDonalds hamburger, I can’t go to Burger King. The market is Smartphone Apps. NOT iOS apps. Smartphone apps includes Android.

if the term is “smartphone app” then there are two players. Apple and Google. You can get a “hamburger” anywhere. Brand affiliation be damned.

 

[fncd]

How in the world did all of the apple apologists get so brainwashed into thinking that giving a consumer a choice is a bad idea?

 

[Ethosik]

And even if you say that the iOS App Store has not been very effective in weeding out scams, why then is the solution then to dissolve the App Store model altogether? Isn’t this like calling for the local police force to be disbanded just because crime still exists in your city? Wouldn’t a better way be for Apple to further step up their policing of the App Store, perhaps with an impartial third party observer if necessary?

This. 100x this. I wonder what some of these people would say about laws. People still drink and drive. There is a law to prevent this but people still do. Does that mean we should just toss the law out?

There will ALWAYS be crime. Both in real world and IT. Nothing..... nothing is 100%. But people think that just because iOS App Store has some bad apps, demolishing it will solve everything? Without apple’s review process, malware will increase significantly. The only solution to get closer to 100% secure, is to have the App Review process take weeks or months. Devs will go crazy. So it’sa no win situation.

 

[fncd]

This. 100x this. I wonder what some of these people would say about laws. People still drink and drive. There is a law to prevent this but people still do. Does that mean we should just toss the law out?

There will ALWAYS be crime. Both in real world and IT. Nothing..... nothing is 100%. But people think that just because iOS App Store has some bad apps, demolishing it will solve everything? Without apple’s review process, malware will increase significantly. The only solution to get closer to 100% secure, is to have the App Review process take weeks or months. Devs will go crazy. So it’sa no win situation.

Here’s an idea. . . .lock the store down entirely, remove all apps that aren’t made by apple. That way most of the people here defending this can rest easy in their private walled garden with barb wire and armed guards.

 

[I7guy]

Here’s an idea. . . .lock the store down entirely, remove all apps that aren’t made by apple. That way most of the people here defending this can rest easy in their private walled garden with barb wire and armed guards.

Or, alternatively understand that multiple app stores and side-loading on the ios platform would result in a race to the bottom. It's a lose-lose except for the ne'er-do-wells.

 

[Ethosik]

So now you are grading streaming based on the amount of interactivity? The goalposts are always being moved to benefit apple by users of this forum.

It honestly seems like half of the people posting here are just apple employees paid to defend them to the death.

.... this has always been my stance since day ONE. I have not moved any goal posts. Just think for ONE SECOND HERE. What is the difference between movies/TV and games?

Movies/tv: typically 1-3 hours of static entertainment. I hit play and that is it for the duration of the movie or tv episode. If I need a quick break, I hit pause. That’s all the interaction.

Games: user interaction to 60 times a second. Most games these days are with others online. Games also require user input. HIGHLY interactive. There are APPS.

Therefore, I can agree with Apple’s stance here. Unless you are fine with dapple playing favorites. What’s stopping Joe Somebody from creating their own game streaming service, and a malicious game gets on the platform a month or two later? What’s to stop ALL companies from using this model to NOT put their apps on the App Store?

If our internet infrastructure improves to the point where latency is so low games at 60fps are great, what’s to stop Adobe from pulling Photoshop out and offer the Adobe Streaming Service? Work on your photoshop files with a massive computer on the other side!

 

[fncd]

Or, alternatively understand that multiple app stores and side-loading on the ios platform would result in a race to the bottom. It's a lose-lose except for the ne'er-do-wells.

The app store already has that. Adding the CHOICE of other stores doesn't mean that EVERYONE has to use them. Choice!