Spotify Calls Apple's App Store Restrictions 'An Abusive Power Grab'

[J___o___h___n]

Correct me if I’m wrong, if I signed up to Spotify on the web and install the freely hosted app from the Apple App Store then Apple don’t get a penny of the money. They host and support a free app and taken nothing...?
They only take a cut if an Apple App Store customers using their payment system to sign up...

Stop moaning $potify.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Maybe the resolution they are looking for is to open a payment window in the app. Or a link to where customers can sign up on the web.

Current App Store rules prohibit external direct links... but maybe that could be a solution.

But like with Netflix... they don't have a link... but I guess they think people will find the website on their own.

Spotify is big enough and has been around long enough... it shouldn't be too challenging for people to stumble over to spotify.com

I have seen a whole lot of complaining and not a lot of suggesting viable remedies.

Exactly

 

[KidAKidB]

If you believe that Match executive, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Why would it not be true? Just because you love Apple doesn't mean they're perfect. They're a huge corporation and definitely not your friend.

 

[jecowa]

Says the company who pays SFA to artists. The nerve.

What's SFA? I've been searching for this, but couldn't find it.

 

[KidAKidB]

And with this, malware is going on the rise. We don’t want our iOS to become Android.

Edit- Although macOS you can download apps off the web, at least there is xProtect and most of them are Apple notarized. However on Android, I don't think there is an equivalent(Don't quote me, I'm no android guy!)

There's lots of malware on the App Store. That's what makes Apple's 30% cut even more insulting.

 

[KidAKidB]

Instead of selling songs at $.99 a pop, Spotify created a streaming service of unlimited music. Tile created a product to find missing items. They MADE something. Apple is the one that didn’t innovate and decided to copy them. But now Spotify and Tile obviously can’t compete with Apple.

Finally someone with sense! Apple rips off their ideas and then gives itself an unfair advantage. I hate when people say that Spotify should make their own phone, as if that's realistic.

 

[obamtl]

Apple's app store power is disproportionate. Take public safety COVID-19 apps for instance. Apple won't let the UK allow users to VOLUNTARILY share data about where they've checked in. This means users have to go to a separate service to manually enter that data, or read it out one at a time to a public health worker on the phone, and this creates a delay in identifying COVID outbreaks. It's preposterous that a private company has this much power.

 

[theotherphil]

Apple's app store power is disproportionate. Take public safety COVID-19 apps for instance. Apple won't let the UK allow users to VOLUNTARILY share data about where they've checked in. This means users have to go to a separate service to manually enter that data, or read it out one at a time to a public health worker on the phone, and this creates a delay in identifying COVID outbreaks. It's preposterous that a private company has this much power.

They are using Apple/ Google contact tracing API’s in their app. The user agreement calls for “anonymous“ collection of data and “anonymous” contact notification. They breeched that agreement….you know - you can use these API’s for free if you agree not to collect user data. Otherwise known as a contract.

If you want to do contact tracing without using the Apple/ Google API’s you can - the Australian government do this and collect user data directly. Their app is available directly on the respective app stores.

 

[mrochester]

What's SFA? I've been searching for this, but couldn't find it.

I assume ‘sweet **** all’.

 

[MJaP]

Perhaps the thing you should be asking yourself is if Apple was the company it used to be 20 years ago and didn't have a mobile ecosystem and phones, and Microsoft owned the dominant mobile app store, and Apple released Apple Music on it and then Microsoft brought out the cheaper Microsoft Music and also took a 30% cut of all Apple Music's profits, would that feel fair to you?

Sometimes we're too caught up in the "we're OK with that because it's Apple doing it and we like Apple" without really thinking how we would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

If you would be OK with Microsoft doing that to Apple, then support Apple now, if it seems a bit unfair then don't.

 

[Apleeseed84]

Pretty sure Spotify hasn't turned a profit since they opened their business. Not sure how they're keeping the lights on.

Spotify is the number 1 app to stream music.

Apple has the biggest music library but it literally has the WORST playlists and makes it harder to find content, I know everyone hates satellite radio, believe me I know, but after my fighting with Sirius XM to cancel their service I found myself switching between Apple Music, spotify, pandora, tidal, then I realized that the Sirius XM app is incredible better than their satellite counterpart because it features HQ audio.

Add the fact it has a ton of exclusive channels, it was a no brainer. Then I use Shazaam to find the songs which automatically adds it to my apple music library.

With that said I am not going to lie, apple really has made it difficult for outside platforms to work with their system.

 

[@Brett]

Who is calling for Apple to be broken up? Companies are just asking to be treated just like Apple's apps on the platform.

But they are not are they? Tile for instance complained based on rumours of AirTags. Apple opened up the Find My Network. But Tile want access to Apples UWB. Spotify wants to make more money and use an ecosystem and devices created by someone else and not have to pay for it. Both companies whole business model is predicated on devices or systems created by others. If both were serious about open competition they would welcome this instead they go whining to congress. Spotify has bigger market share and brags about more users. Do where is Apple's monopoly? Apple does not have a major share of the PC or the phone market. These 2 companies agreed to terms as they saw a benefit. Now they want to make more money without innovating. Their poor business model is their fault and no one else's.

 

[@Brett]

Spotify is the number 1 app to stream music.

Apple has the biggest music library but it literally has the WORST playlists and makes it harder to find content, I know everyone hates satellite radio, believe me I know, but after my fighting with Sirius XM to cancel their service I found myself switching between Apple Music, spotify, pandora, tidal, then I realized that the Sirius XM app is incredible better than their satellite counterpart because it features HQ audio.

Add the fact it has a ton of exclusive channels, it was a no brainer. Then I use Shazaam to find the songs which automatically adds it to my apple music library.

With that said I am not going to lie, apple really has made it difficult for outside platforms to work with their system.

How has it made it more difficult? They have guidelines in place and these companies choose to go wit them. Fact is these companies cannot innovate and want the government to help them out. They do not welcome competition because in their fields they are the current monopolies. Fact is I could choose to use Tile or Spotify but I choose not to as I do not want to. I made informed decisions. Which by them complaining they are effectively calling consumers stupid for not being able to either make decisions or choose their services.

 

[mrochester]

But they are not are they? Tile for instance complained based on rumours of AirTags. Apple opened up the Find My Network. But Tile want access to Apples UWB. Spotify wants to make more money and use an ecosystem and devices created by someone else and not have to pay for it. Both companies whole business model is predicated on devices or systems created by others. If both were serious about open competition they would welcome this instead they go whining to congress. Spotify has bigger market share and brags about more users. Do where is Apple's monopoly? Apple does not have a major share of the PC or the phone market. These 2 companies agreed to terms as they saw a benefit. Now they want to make more money without innovating. Their poor business model is their fault and no one else's.

This is why companies need to be as vertically integrated as possible. Control your own destiny, don’t leave it in the hands of a competitor or partner.

 

[Abazigal]

Perhaps the thing you should be asking yourself is if Apple was the company it used to be 20 years ago and didn't have a mobile ecosystem and phones, and Microsoft owned the dominant mobile app store, and Apple released Apple Music on it and then Microsoft brought out the cheaper Microsoft Music and also took a 30% cut of all Apple Music's profits, would that feel fair to you?

Sometimes we're too caught up in the "we're OK with that because it's Apple doing it and we like Apple" without really thinking how we would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

If you would be OK with Microsoft doing that to Apple, then support Apple now, if it seems a bit unfair then don't.

What I feel is that “feelings” have nothing to do with it.

US antitrust law looks at whether harm has been done to the consumer. Hey, Tile, Spotify, Epic, none of them are Apple consumers. They are developers using Apple’s platform to sell to Apple’s user base. Living in Asia, I admit I don’t know enough about US laws to determine whether there is another set of laws specifically covering such a situation, but as it stands, I feel that these companies are barking up the wrong tree.

Right or wrong has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Maybe this makes me a terrible person, but I find I really can’t seem to muster any sort of emotion other than sheer and utter contempt for these companies. Perhaps it’s because they are all already huge and successful businesses. I don’t believe for one moment that any of them are doing this to benefit or empower developers. Who appointed them as spokespeople for all iOS developers anyways?

This isn’t about fairness. It’s about these companies wanting more power than what they currently have, and they not above burning down the App Store model to the ground and comprising its vitality and viability, just to sell a couple more subscriptions (in the case of Hey), or earning more money from IAPs (in the case of Epic) or crummy Bluetooth trackers (that don’t even work all that well on ios) in the process.

And even if you say that the iOS App Store has not been very effective in weeding out scams, why then is the solution then to dissolve the App Store model altogether? Isn’t this like calling for the local police force to be disbanded just because crime still exists in your city? Wouldn’t a better way be for Apple to further step up their policing of the App Store, perhaps with an impartial third party observer if necessary?

Lastly, this hearing is a waste of time, and will probably go nowhere. Heck, if they were so concerned, why not poll or survey some Apple users, or even invite them to take the stand? Perhaps it’s because they are afraid of the revelation that most people (gasp) don’t actually dislike walled gardens and closed ecosystems, and risk revealing themselves for the hypocrites that they are?

 

[obamtl]

They are using Apple/ Google contact tracing API’s in their app. The user agreement calls for “anonymous“ collection of data and “anonymous” contact notification. They breeched that agreement….you know - you can use these API’s for free if you agree not to collect user data. Otherwise known as a contract.

If you want to do contact tracing without using the Apple/ Google API’s you can - the Australian government do this and collect user data directly. Their app is available directly on the respective app stores.

Apple obstructs bluetooth contract tracing without the app. Last time I checked, it works less than 10% of the time on iOS when you don't use the API, and you need to have the app actively open on the foreground of the phone, otherwise it stops working, so you can't do contact tracing effectively without the API. The only alternative is to have separate COVID-19 apps for bluetooth contact tracing and location check-ins even though logically, the data is completely separate, and you can block centralised collection of location data.

The point remains Apple and Google have the power to dictate to COUNTRIES on what they can and cannot do, and as someone who believes in democracy, I believe this is wrong. It's Google and Apple who should play by the rules set by democratic governments.

 

[iapplelove]

If they aren't making a profit, ad revenue isn't helping them keep the lights on. The only way a company stays in business while losing money is to get additional investors. Eventually they either start turning a profit or the investors dry up and they fold. If Spotify can't make money as a service, then it can (and should) fail. Its not essential.

‘They profit

 

[Glideslope]

Apple obstructs bluetooth contract tracing without the app. Last time I checked, it works less than 10% of the time on iOS when you don't use the API, and you need to have the app actively open on the foreground of the phone, otherwise it stops working, so you can't do contact tracing effectively without the API. The only alternative is to have separate COVID-19 apps for bluetooth contact tracing and location check-ins even though logically, the data is completely separate, and you can block centralised collection of location data.

The point remains Apple and Google have the power to dictate to COUNTRIES on what they can and cannot do, and as someone who believes in democracy, I believe this is wrong. It's Google and Apple who should play by the rules set by democratic governments.

Just leave the US out of this comment. We are not a Democracy. The US is a Federated Republic attempting the grand experiment of Democracy. Safe to say it’s been a failure, and no change is in sight.

Those with the money and power will continue to make the rules. This entire Antitrust foreplay is nothing but a made for TV event.

Consumers outside of these forums obviously don’t give a s*** as Apple‘s sales and revenue continue to demonstrate quarter after quarter.

Nothing but a 21st Century Horse and Pony show.

 

[Abazigal]

Just leave the US out of this comment. We are not a Democracy. The US is a Federated Republic attempting the grand experiment of Democracy. Safe to say it’s been a failure, and no change is in sight.

Those with the money and power will continue to make the rules. This entire Antitrust foreplay is nothing but a made for TV event.

Consumers outside of these forums obviously don’t give a s*** as Apple‘s sales and revenue continue to demonstrate quarter after quarter.

Nothing but a 21st Century Horse and Pony show.

I am not sure how my government did it, but Singapore seems to have worked around it just fine with their tracetogether app.

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[theotherphil]

Apple obstructs bluetooth contract tracing without the app. Last time I checked, it works less than 10% of the time on iOS when you don't use the API, and you need to have the app actively open on the foreground of the phone, otherwise it stops working, so you can't do contact tracing effectively without the API. The only alternative is to have separate COVID-19 apps for bluetooth contact tracing and location check-ins even though logically, the data is completely separate, and you can block centralised collection of location data.

The point remains Apple and Google have the power to dictate to COUNTRIES on what they can and cannot do, and as someone who believes in democracy, I believe this is wrong. It's Google and Apple who should play by the rules set by democratic governments.

Apple turns off Bluetooth to background processes to save battery power and reduce potentially malicious apps from tracking users in the background….but lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

[I7guy]

There's lots of malware on the App Store. That's what makes Apple's 30% cut even more insulting.

Why do you care what the fees are? Ever buy sour milk at Target? We pay law enforcement to keep our highways safe, yet there are many speed related accidents.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Still LOVE Spotify for my music service.
Tried Apple. Doesn't work at all for me.
No folders, organization is very difficult.
Took over my entire computer and after the trial ALL my very own previously burned CD's were gone.
Called Apple twice, first phone call was 4.5 hrs, second - next day - was 3 hrs.
Finally they admitted they're aware of the issue and offerred me a FREE CD BURNER so I can re-burn all my CD's. Golly....I have over 1800 CDs. All of whom were on my computer before this. Documented, organized, correct titles and all.
NEVER again. Don't like them at all for music.

So Apple came to your house and broke all your CDs when you signed up for Apple Music?

 

[Kierkegaarden]

That's my question as well. What exactly are they looking for? What outcome do they want from these anti-trust investigations?

If Spotify is upset about the 30% cut... they can already let people sign up on their website and avoid the 30% cut. Other companies are doing it. Example: Netflix

Hell... Spotify themselves told people to do that in 2015:

Spotify urges iPhone customers to stop paying through Apple’s App Store

The Apple Music rival sends out an anti-iTunes PSA

www.theverge.com

Of course Apple won't allow a window to pop up inside the Spotify app to give your credit card number to Spotify.

But... the Safari browser is literally a couple taps away... with no restrictions. Seriously... it's the freakin' open web.

This seems like a solved problem. I wonder how many more investigations need to happen.

Their users probably prefer using the app over web, and this will probably only increase.

Oh, and their business model doesn’t factor in profit. So they bit the hand that feeds them.

 

[jamcgahey]

Instead of selling songs at $.99 a pop, Spotify created a streaming service of unlimited music. Tile created a product to find missing items. They MADE something. Apple is the one that didn’t innovate and decided to copy them. But now Spotify and Tile obviously can’t compete with Apple.

You are not wrong, but an argument can be made that these companies wouldn't have been able to create something like that without the OS that Apple/Google created. I agree that 30%/15% is high, but its Apple's house so it's Apples rules. If I have a house party (too old for it now) and wanted to have a cover charge of $30 for entry its my house/house party so its my rules. Lets just pretend I'm super cool and this house party is vitally important for people to show up. Well although it is a SUPER popular-must-go-to party, its optional. If you don't want to pay the fee start your own party or don't party at all. I am not arguing that the options presented aren't crap but no one is making Spotify or Tile stay on iOS. It would be catastrophic to their company if they weren't which sucks, but still...its optional to be on iOS. If they don't like the rules then do be apart of it.

 

[obamtl]

Apple turns off Bluetooth to background processes to save battery power and reduce potentially malicious apps from tracking users in the background….but lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story.

And no one faults that. However if you say the only way you'll allow countries to enable bluetooth contact tracing is through the API and concurrently block them from allowing citizens to quickly share their check-in details without even offering an alternative, then you're crossing the line. Point remains Apple and Google should not be in a position to dictate to democratically elected governments, that's too much power for a private company. I love Apple products. I love organisations driven by privacy, but companies can't trump democracy.