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Not only is the 30% fee that Apple charge all developers far too much, but there is another issue that needs to come to the mainstream media's attention:

I've never thought about it but 30% does seem high, how much do competitors / other platforms charge usually?

Whenever Apple feature apps for free on the App Store, they don't pay the developers. In other words, this is exactly the same as Apple expecting the musicians to offer their music at no cost for the three month Apple Music trial.

Don't they even ask the developers if they want to take part in the "Free App" promotion (that also gives the app quite the spotlight)?

No wonder Apple has obscene profits. We need another open letter from Taylor Swift.

How does Apple make obscene profits on an app that they give away for free?
 
Apple music is just a mess. Drake came on stage to talk about features of Connect and a great tool for artists. Here we are a week later and HE hasn't even posted anything to it.

So yes, this is yet another botched release.
 
Yeah, so stupid.

Maybe you can start sending 30% of what you make to Apple? It should make you feel really smart....
Dunno why you're being condescending. I would, at the very least, notify my users why the price is the way it is instead of hiding behind the veil of Apple Tax.

BTW, subscribing to services like Netflix or Spotify from iTunes is just stupid, since it takes funds from the companies which provide a service that you presumably like (if you subscribe to it). Less money to them means less content and services they can offer, so both you and they lose.
Technically streaming services are "just stupid" because the artists barely make anything from them.
 
Which disaster are you referring to? So far things seem to be on track and headed in the right direction for Apple.
For one thing, there are lots of technical issues. If you go e.g. to the relevant section in this forum or the Apple support forum , you'll find numerous bug reports including corruption of users' existing iTunes libraries. Most of them seem to stem from the convoluted way Apple Music is merged with the iTunes library. This was supposed to be a standout feature, but has created a lot of confusion and frustration so far.
 
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This is an excellent move by Spotify.

The whole issue of Apple's 30% fee is now in the public spotlight. Apple need to reduce In-App Purchases to a much lower fee—perhaps 5 or 10%. I'm sure many companies have been put off selling services through the App Store because of this extortionate cost.


Spotify was charging this not Apple. It's not a policy Apple does. I was a premium Spotify customer that used subscribing thru app store it was still $9.99.
 
lol, seriously, on some real **** ... if I were Apple I would remove Spotify from the App Store for this ********. Spotify is essentially saying, "yes, we want to use your platform to distribute our product and gain more customers / revenue. Yes, we want to use your servers to do this. But we'd rather just cut you out of the picture and not pay you anything."

wtf?

That's serious ground for Apple to say, "okay, you can choose to not cover the burden you incur with your 60 million users. We just won't carry your burden. Cool? Cool. *boots*" -- But because Apple Music is under scrutiny for the anti-competitive accusations, they probably can't remove Spotify. Even though Spotify is clearly trying to circumvent the system and defame the very system that they are using to capitalize / profit from, and get exposure with. They're tip-toeing on lawsuit grounds ... that's balls. I think the flux of members deactivating their subscription, which caused Spotify to shut down the page which allows people to close their accounts ... caused Spotify to panic so much, that they have gone stupid. Fear does funny things.

But man-o-man that would've been perfect for Apple to give them the boot.
 
How do Spotify have the email addresses of these subscribers? I'm not suggesting anything odd, I just didn't think Apple turned over user information, even for subscriptions.

When you sign up for Spotify you provide an email address.

Just keep reaching...
 
lol, seriously, on some real **** ... if I were Apple I would remove Spotify from the App Store for this ********. Spotify is essentially saying, "yes, we want to use your platform to distribute our product and gain more customers / revenue. Yes, we want to use your servers to do this. But we'd rather just cut you out of the picture and not pay you anything."

wtf?
 
For one thing, there are lots of technical issues. If you go e.g. to the relevant section in this forum or the Apple support forum , you'll find numerous bug reports including corruption of users' existing iTunes libraries. Most of them seem to stem from the convoluted way Apple Music is merged with the iTunes library. This was supposed to be a standout feature, but has created a lot of confusion and frustration so far.

I DuckG Spotify and found also numerous bugs.. Complain.. Etc etc... Tried also their forum.. The same thing...

And so... Whats the point?... Still... Spotify is working find...
 
Dunno why you're being condescending. I would, at the very least, notify my users why the price is the way it is instead of hiding behind the veil of Apple Tax.


Technically streaming services are "just stupid" because the artists barely make anything from them.

Spotify was charging this not Apple. It's not a policy Apple does. I was a premium Spotify customer that used subscribing thru app store it was still $9.99.

lol, seriously, on some real **** ... if I were Apple I would remove Spotify from the App Store for this ********. Spotify is essentially saying, "yes, we want to use your platform to distribute our product and gain more customers / revenue. Yes, we want to use your servers to do this. But we'd rather just cut you out of the picture and not pay you anything."

wtf?

That's serious ground for Apple to say, "okay, you can choose to not cover the burden you incur with your 60 million users. We just won't carry your burden. Cool? Cool. *boots*" -- But because Apple Music is under scrutiny for the anti-competitive accusations, they probably can't remove Spotify. Even though Spotify is clearly trying to circumvent the system and defame the very system that they are using to capitalize / profit from, and get exposure with. They're tip-toeing on lawsuit grounds ... that's balls. I think the flux of members deactivating their subscription, which caused Spotify to shut down the page which allows people to close their accounts ... caused Spotify to panic so much, that they have gone stupid. Fear does funny things.

But man-o-man that would've been perfect for Apple to give them the boot.

Let me make this super clear; Apple adds a 30% tax onto everything in the App Store. This is to cover the cost of their reviewal process and costs to run the App Store. 30% is extremely high and more than enough to cover these costs. Apple does not provide servers for Spotify. Apple could literally charge 1% and still make a profit.

When you buy an app, you are always paying an extra 30% because of Apple.
 
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Yeah, so stupid.

Maybe you can start sending 30% of what you make to Apple? It should make you feel really smart....

Apple charges 30% to have your app or service advertised on their App Store because you will gain a substantial amount of new customers that route. However whatever you decide to charge for your app or service and what people think it's actually worth is a different story.
 
I DuckG Spotify and found also numerous bugs.. Complain.. Etc etc... Tried also their forum.. The same thing...
Sure. But there is a difference in severity. Destroying people's music libraries (which are often carefully managed and built up over years) is not acceptable. This service was clearly rushed and not properly tested.
 
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Apple charges 30% to have your app or service advertised on their App Store because you will gain a substantial amount of new customers that route. However whatever you decide to charge for your app or service and what people think it's actually worth is a different story.
Apple charges 30% for the privilege to put your app on iOS. Like there is another non-Apple App Store just lying around (without jailbreaking). I guess they could allow web downloads with signed developers but "security" right?
 
Isn't it against Apple's In App Subscription rules to charge more through the App Store?
It is. This is going to be fun.
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Let me make this super clear; Apple adds a 30% tax onto everything in the App Store. This is to cover the cost of their reviewal process and costs to run the App Store. 30% is extremely high and more than enough to cover these costs. Apple does not provide servers for Spotify. Apple could literally charge 1% and still make a profit.

When you buy an app, you are always paying an extra 30% because of Apple.
I'm aware of the Apple Tax. I do agree that it's a bit high.
 
Then learn to read. A few popular blogs have the issues documented. I've posted screenshots of the issues. Get out more. Get some sun.

Seems to me your a little tightly wound. You might have a talk with your MD. I've seen no such evidence you claim. I've had zero issues.

Yes you have—the poster you replied to.

A random forum poster. Wow LOL.
 
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Why is it sad? I don't know spotify's profit margin but it would be safe to say it's less than 30%. Would you expect them to operate at a loss instead?

I'm not going to keep posting the same thing over and over. Please go read my other posts after this as to why this is sad.
 
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Apple greedy? Straw man much?

Apple invented the app store. Not just their App Store, but the app store. They provided the developer tools, provided the banking/financial tools, provided support and tutorials, built out the infrastructure, promoted, and provided the very bed of an OS for the apps to run on. For millions of developers the 30% fee is perfectly fine, because they don't have to build out their own e-commerce site, or promote their own applications, or develop their own programming code.

Spotify was perfectly fine with in app subscription until Apple started offering a competing product (a better competing product, IMO) for less money. Now Spotify is using whatever means they can to try to gain back some of the competitive ground they've lost. Good for them. But this is not about Apple's greed. This is about corporate competition. Spotify is a startup who used Apple to get themselves going, and now they're one of the big players in the field. If they want to have it be "fair" as you say, perhaps they should develop their own hardware and OS to run their program on.

And if you want to talk about being "greedy" do the math on the 70/30 split. If you buy Spotify through the In App subscription they're paying $3.89 to Apple. Why aren't they giving their subscribers a $3.89 discount for the hassle of using their website to subscribe?
 
Apple is doing nothing for Spotify other than processing a credit card transaction. That's it. Spotify and other subscription services like Netflix do EVERYTHING else. The Apple App Store is just ONE avenue for them.

Apple did NOT offer a product for less money. They both charge $9.99 for single users. Spotify has to cover the LOSS they take from Apple for in app purchase and charge.....wait for it.....30% more. You go to Spotifys website like other people that don't have Apple products you get charged $9.99. So there's your savings of $3.98.

Spotify didn't use Apple, Apple was just one of many different ways for them to do what they have.

Apple Music will do well, this I know but Apple isn't the roses and daisys that some make them out to be.
 
Let me make this super clear; Apple adds a 30% tax onto everything in the App Store. This is to cover the cost of their reviewal process and costs to run the App Store. 30% is extremely high and more than enough to cover these costs. Apple does not provide servers for Spotify. Apple could literally charge 1% and still make a profit.

When you buy an app, you are always paying an extra 30% because of Apple.

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

First, 30% is deducted from the price you set. Whether you set the price of the app to 99 cents, $1.29, $10, $99 (or whatever price you come up with) Apple takes 30% from that price. They do not tack on an additional 30% to that price, nor is it the purchaser's responsibility to cover that 30%. You don't get billed by the developer and then Apple charges you an extra 30%, lol. They take their cut from the developer directly. Some developers therefore add an extra cost, to cover that 30% ... which is what Spotify did. But it's not Apple charging you that extra 30%, Spotify itself is charging that extra 30% to cover the cut Apple takes from them, not you.

Let's put it in other terms.

A store owner sells fruit ($1.10). The store owner must buy the fruit ($0.10), and sell it with an additional cost in order to turn a profit ($1.00). You can easily say, that if the store owner wasn't being charged ($0.10) ... then you would be paying less ($1.00). And because the store owner is being charged, and passing on that charge ($0.10) to you ... the supplier is the one that's indirectly charging you ($0.10). That's how your mind creates the situation, but you're not realizing this structure exists in every buying situation unless the person is selling at a loss (thus selling for less than their purchase price). However, maybe your logic is that Apple's 30% is unreasonable. So let's go to your second delusion.

-----

Second, the developer / company is responsible for the data transmissions necessary to use the app, but the developer does not distribute the app itself. Therefore, every user that downloads the app is doing so from an Apple server. Although not everyone will download Spotify's update, at least 50% of their 60 million users will do so (or 50% of whatever their number of users that are on iOS devices would be Apple's minimum burden). That is a very large burden, and it does not even factor in the users with multiple iOS devices. There are many burdens that Spotify incurs aside the staff burden required to review the app, and there are many benefits Spotify gains (such as exposure, accessibility, etc).

You've painted this fantasy in your mind that has no grip on the reality of the situation. I wouldn't be surprised if you think Spotify teleports the app to your phone. But in your imaginary situation of Spotify distributing the app to users directly, if Apple's servers aren't at the very least checking the fingerprint of an app before it installs ... then the developer would be able to change the codebase at will. And there are a lot of developers that would do something malicious if they had such freedom (jailbreaking would be unnecessary, because exploits would be easy). An alternative approach to exclude Apple's servers might be, every iOS device could have an internal digital fingerprint / checksum database to verify the downloaded app against. This means the device needs to have the fingerprint of the app before the app is installed (if it's not accessing a server to grab the fingerprint). Considering that iOS updates are less frequent than new apps are created, how does this internal fingerprint database get updated without using Apple's servers? lol. And if the devices are only grabbing the new fingerprints from Apple's servers, how many new apps and app updates are pushed to Apple's servers every hour? So how many iOS devices would be hammering Apple's servers to get those fingerprint updates every hour? Okay, let's say that somehow magically the fingerprint database inside each phone gets updated without ever accessing Apple's servers ... what is to stop me from hacking the codebase in a manner that produces the exact same fingerprint since I'm distributing the app directly? I assure you, it can be done.

The only secure situation is if Apple stores the verified codebase themselves, and distributes it themselves. Hence Apple handles the distribution, and the developer pays Apple for that distribution. Then the developer handles the data transmissions required to use the App themselves, that is, if the app does not internally do it (for example you can create an app which accesses other's servers, but never your own, which in that case you'll have no direct server costs of your own). Let's say, of the 60 million Spotify users, only half of them are iOS users. That still means, Apple must distribute to 15 million users within a short amount of space, and few more million users that delay updating. What is the fair price for that if 30% is too much? What about the other burdens Spotify incurs? Even accessing Spotify's app page uses Apple's server resources. So what about the people that check the app just to see the reviews but they don't even download the app itself, because they instead liked how Tidal looked?

Apple should just say "we got this, don't even worry about it!" *waves to Spotify to keep their money in their pocket that they acquired from the App store, as if covering the bill at a restaurant* "We've got this."

lol.

Thank you for amusing me.
 
Its been reported that Spotify operates at a loss at the $9.99 rate... Why would they take an even bigger hit because of the 30% Apple tax?

If your company is operating at a loss at the normal premium price without the 30% Apple charges. Then your company shouldn't be running at all. It doesn't make sense to charge $10 for a service knowing its at a loss.
 
Wow, great ad Spotify. I have a better idea, save all your money and go to a torrent site. The music is essentially stolen on Spotify anyway. Spotify became successful by using legal loopholes to stream music and pay artists nothing. They made billions by stealing other people's hard work. The fact that the founder of Spotify was CEO of uTorrent really says it all.

If you want to use a better service, with better playlists, and know that you are supporting artists, then go for Apple music. Otherwise, save your money and head for a torrent site instead of Spotify. Use that money to go to your favorite artist's show or buy some merch. At least your money won't be supporting thieves.

As an artist, there is one thing I hate more than people stealing my work, it's people stealing it then reselling it to unsuspecting buyers. Spotify is too similar to makers of bootleg CDs or t-shirts.

I hope that Apple removes Spotify from the App Store as it now doubles an existing iOS feature.

This isn't just my opinion, but it reflects the feelings of many recoding artists all over the world.
 
For one thing, there are lots of technical issues. If you go e.g. to the relevant section in this forum or the Apple support forum , you'll find numerous bug reports including corruption of users' existing iTunes libraries. Most of them seem to stem from the convoluted way Apple Music is merged with the iTunes library. This was supposed to be a standout feature, but has created a lot of confusion and frustration so far.

With any product service launch complications are to be expected but for the most part and for most people the service is working very well and with minor hiccups. Also a lot of users aren't tech savvy and do not know how to do basic trouble shooting that could get things working smooth. Things are looking good and Apple music is headed in the right direction.
 
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As I mentioned before, Spotify did not offer in-app subscriptions until about a year ago. Before that you could only sign up for the premium service through their web-site. They hardly "withered" during that time. They simply did a cost-benefit analysis and came to the conclusion that this additional option would be beneficial for them.
You seem very concerned for Apple. I'm more concerned that there remains a healthy competition in this field. Before Spotify came along, Apple had a near-monopoly in digital music distribution. Without Spotify, there wouldn't be $10 music subscription services and there wouldn't be Apple Music either.
65% market share is not a near monopoly.
 
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