Spotify Has Twice as Many Paid Subscribers as Apple Music

[MH01]

For some reason you are very but hurt regarding this topic. I personally don't use any streaming music service.

Keep it clean mate.

Am I disappointed , yes, I really wanted to make AW my steaming service , I was excited about Beats 1 launching etc. I really gave it a go when it launched , the UI was awful.....Beats 1 was catering to just one category of music....and my own collection of music was a mess under AW.

Yeah it's shocking that I try to explain how spotifys slow growth over the last 10 years had something to do with starting from nothing to 30m users. While Apple joined the fray with its app being pre installed on around billion devices ..... Different starting point. I'm more impressed with the imaginary numbers people are making up

 

[Michael Scrip]

You are putting in my place, by changing the focus of the debate , the irony.

So numbers like how many devices come pre-installed with Apple Music are irrelevant , or numbers how many people apple markerting has access to is also irrelevant when discussing growth of a service ? Hmm

In case you missed the debate, I was replying to apple apologists that were gloating how well apple has done in one year and how they would take over Spotify next year (made up numbers), and how Spotify only got to 30'million in 10 years.

So how about you give these guys a dose of reality of where streaming was and is today, and ask them to stop making numbers up, I at least quoted numbers supplied by apple. Since you seem aware of how streaming is the problem as a paid service, and explain why it took Spotify 10 years to get to 30 million.

All you are doing now is adding another parameter to the debate, is streaming the problem, further making this debate all over the place to try to explain why apple even with its huge user base has had such a small uptake....excuses.

So let's draw a dotted line here, instead of making this more of a dogs breakfast, as too many things are now being debated. And focus on one.

What would you like to debate? The current 68 you brought to the table? Sure, what was the world wide subscriber base before Apple Music launched, of that what percentage was Spotify users ....from there we can do some analytics ....

I just wanna know why you've referenced Apple and their "1 billion active devices" no less than five times in this thread.

That's what caught my eye.

You really seem focused on that.

Yes... there are 1 billion active Apple devices on Earth... and Apple Music has 15 million paying customers.

Now what?

You obviously think that there aren't enough Apple Music subscribers... since you keep mentioning it.

I asked earlier "How many Apple Music subscribers should there be?" I never got an answer from you.

You did use the word "fail" in relation to Apple Music subscribers and Apple's userbase.

Is it really a fail though? I don't think so. Yet you keep going on and on about it.

If anything is a "fail" it's Google Play Music. There are 3 billion active Android devices out there... and there's no way there are 15 million Google Play Music subscribers.

So maybe cut Apple some slack.

 

[thekeyring]

Great stuff, but they're still loosing money, at an increasing rate. Is Apple Music a loss leader, or have Apple figured out a better way of paying the record labels?

 

[marmiteturkey]

It's growing... until the labels take out their music from there...



That's no how it works.



15 million = all captive iOS users???



Don't think so, if AM keeps getting better and better, while Spotify keeps being the same, and musicians attacking it.



If you have 1 consumer and now you have 2 costumers, yes, it's a 100% growth rate. What's the problem?



What exactly AM is not!


!

Yes, quoting growth rates without the context of absolutes is meaningless or worse, potentially misleading. A 100% growth rate on a tiny base is easier and not as impressive as a 50% growth rate on a much larger one. That's EXACTLY how it works. If you don't think so, you've clearly never managed a business or even a part of one.

Not all Apple Music's 15 million users are ex Spotify switchers - but a good chunk of them will be, and there is likely to be a spike of them at the beginning of AM's lifecycle. A great many captive iOS users will hit the 'free trial' button soon after it becomes available - especially as Apple is pushing it hard in the music app on its devices - again, there will be a spike early on, as Apple 'pushes' its product on people already using its service. How many AM users don't own a single iOS or macOS device? Close to none, I would bet. There are some solid reasons why AM's growth rate will likely slow, not accelerate.

You can tell me that AM is not buggy, ugly or non-differentiated if you like. My experience is different. 'Buggy' for me is beyond dispute though, as it appears to be for a lot of people here. Will Apple continue to make it better? Yes (though in iOS10, the music app is so visually inconsistent and jarring, they have a lot of work to do before the final release). But why would Spotify not continue to make things better at the same or better rate? They have a famously excellent engineering culture and have done more to pioneer in this space than Apple have, so far at least.

I don't use Spotify because I have a library of purchased, offline music of over 30,000 songs in iTunes which I would rather have integrated with my streaming service - Spotify's integration is not neat enough. But AM needs to be a great deal better if it is going to catch Spotify in terms of subscriber numbers (which may or may not be Apple's goal - profitability is more important than population to Apple, and rightly so).

 

[MH01]

I just wanna know why you've referenced Apple and their "1 billion active devices" no less than five times in this thread.

That's what caught my eye.

You really seem focused on that.

Yes... there are 1 billion active Apple devices on Earth... and Apple Music has 15 million paying customers.

Now what?

You obviously think that there aren't enough Apple Music subscribers... since you keep mentioning it.

I asked earlier "How many Apple Music subscribers should there be?" I never got an answer from you.

You did use the word "fail" in relation to Apple Music subscribers and Apple's userbase.

Is it really a fail though? I don't think so. Yet you keep going on and on about it.

If anything is a "fail" it's Google Play Music. There are 3 billion active Android devices out there... and there's no way there are 15 million Google Play Music subscribers.

So maybe cut Apple some slack.

Can you pick one topic you wish to debate?

To quote you, "you are all over the place"

Choose one and happy to share opinions. Just one though.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Can you pick one topic you wish to debate?

To quote you, "you are all over the place"

Choose one and happy to share opinions. Just one though.

I did pick one topic.

You said no less than five times that Apple has 1 billion active devices and only 15 million paying Apple Music subscribers.

Question: Do you really think that it is a "fail" ?

 

[MH01]

I did pick one topic.

You said no less than five times that Apple has 1 billion active devices and only 15 million paying Apple subscribers.

Question: Do you really think that it is a "fail" ?

Excellent . Let's stick to 1 billion active devices and sucess of Apple Music.

My opinion is as follows .

1. Given people in this thread are quoting made up numbers, I can quote 1 billion 10 or 20 more times, irrelevant how many times I quote it. 15 million has been quoted adhoc.

2. 1 billion active devices is misleading, as users can have multiple devices to the same Appleid , as Apple does not share user numbers, it's the closest stat we have from them.

3. In my opinion having Apple Music installed on those 1 billion devices, and being marketed to those people actively, 15m in a year is poor. 6.5 at start. Not the fault of the customer !

4. Apple continues to give away 3 month trial, so users are trying it out but not continuing. The one billion devices grows faster than subscribers .

5. Let's focus on my opinion. AW is poor UI, buggy, horrible navigation, and very un Apple in its implementation, which should be simplicity , and Beats 1 turns me off at the type of music Apple Music is promoting , including exclusives . So yeah a fail in my opinion .

6. Reading MR, my opinion is not that far off many here that do not use AW.

7. Many on MR are interested in AW, including myself, once the issues in 5 are corrected.

So yeah in summary, I think it's a fail, and when corrected , numbers should grow very fast, due to the numbers (1 billion devices)in the ecosystem, I'm also not making up excuses on why people are not interested in streaming etc etc, streaming is not doing well cause Spotify is not great, and AW is not much better. When Apple fixes AW it will grow fast. People hoped apple would take to a new level, it's launch offering was poor.

I'm impressed how people here will debate and make up all types upexcuses why steaming as an offering is the problem etc while they ignore the huge elephant in the room and that is , AW launched as a poor solution , and at present be Spotify or AW , there is no clear winner.

Apple watch all over again. Apple launches something replicating what is in the markert currently and all the excuses roll out, while many wanted a product that redefined what a smart watch was. So let's blame the public for not liking smart watches and streaming music....

 

[anthorumor]

Personally I use Google Music, because of YouTube Red. I think Spotify is the best one at the moment for its remote capabilities and integration with devices such as HiFi systems, but I'm sure Apple will catch up in this area soon (AirPlay).

 

[0098386]

Not bad for a service that has only been around a year. Spotify has been out what... 5 years now or more?

I find it very interesting. The first time I open the music app on my iPhone after an OS update I get presented with another Apple Music advert. On top of that I have to disable it in the settings so I can just view music I own. Apple are being quite pushy with it which is why I find it interesting that Apple Music has much less subscriptions. I've never seen a Spotify advert, for example.

 

[Shaunie1973]

If this is true then Spotify is in trouble. Apple Music now has half the number of paying subscribers that Spotify has.....in just 12 months.

 

[Michael Scrip]

In my opinion having Apple Music installed on those 1 billion devices, and being marketed to those people actively, 15m in a year is poor. 6.5 at start. Not the fault of the customer !

And how many devices is Google Play Music installed on? Yet I'd be shocked if there were even 5 million paying GPM subscribers... let alone 15 million.

Bigger fail, right?

Not really... because not everyone wants to subscribe to a music streaming service. It's an optional service.

Maybe people have their own music libraries. Or they don't listen to music at all. Just because something is installed on your device... it doesn't mean you'll pay for an extra subscription.

And that's been my issue with your "1 billion active devices" argument this whole time. You're saying because there are so many Apple devices out there... that there should be more paid Apple Music subscribers.

But I don't see the connection there. Again... it's an optional service. And a paid service at that.

Think of all the Smart TVs that have Netflix installed... or all the computers with Microsoft Office 365 installed. That doesn't mean people will pay extra for those services.

Even if you see the icon every day... being actively marketed to... that doesn't mean you're gonna spend money. You don't have to buy it... and the company shouldn't be punished if you don't buy it.

Amazon gets 175 million visitors a month in the US alone. Kindle sales should be through the roof since nearly every visitor sees it on the front page!

But even if people see a Kindle every time they visit the site... there's no expectation that people will buy one.

People are allowed to say "no thanks"


Question 2... If 15 million paid Apple Music subscribers is a "fail"... what number would make it not a "fail"?

 

[Sital]

I was going to try Apple Music, but then I saw the Spotify family plan. Both my daughters are paid Spotify subscribers, love it, and have no desire to switch to AM. So I signed up for the family plan, added my daughters to it, and now for the same monthly cost we all have premium accounts. So far I have no complaints.

 

[OllyW]

The first time I open the music app on my iPhone after an OS update I get presented with another Apple Music advert. On top of that I have to disable it in the settings so I can just view music I own.

That always gets on my nerves.

 

[bushido]

Why? When do you not have your phone with you?
[doublepost=1466490652][/doublepost]I'm with apple music for one main reason. Smart Playlists.

data is valuable in Germany and I don't have WiFi at work

 

[MH01]

And how many devices is Google Play Music installed on? Yet I'd be shocked if there were even 5 million paying GPM subscribers... let alone 15 million.

Bigger fail, right?

Not really... because not everyone wants to subscribe to a music streaming service. It's an optional service.

Maybe people have their own music libraries. Or they don't listen to music at all. Just because something is installed on your device... it doesn't mean you'll pay for an extra subscription.

And that's been my issue with your "1 billion active devices" argument this whole time. You're saying because there are so many Apple devices out there... that there should be more paid Apple Music subscribers.

But I don't see the connection there. Again... it's an optional service. And a paid service at that.

Think of all the Smart TVs that have Netflix installed... or all the computers with Microsoft Office 365 installed. That doesn't mean people will pay extra for those services.

Even if you see the icon every day... being actively marketed to... that doesn't mean you're gonna spend money. You don't have to buy it... and the company shouldn't be punished if you don't buy it.

Amazon gets 175 million visitors a month in the US alone. Kindle sales should be through the roof since nearly every visitor sees it on the front page!

But even if people see a Kindle every time they visit the site... there's no expectation that people will buy one.

People are allowed to say "no thanks"


Question 2... If 15 million paid Apple Music subscribers is a "fail"... what number would make it not a "fail"?

You are all over the place, you asked me why I think think Apple Music is a fail. I gave you the reason, the reason is not 1 billion active devices, that is supporting fact, and I clearly explained to you why I think it's a fail.

You actually ignored my main point, cherry picked a paragraph out of context of my reply and started carrying on about Google, Amazon and Netflix....diversion mate.

How MANY more times do I have to state the reason I believe it's a fail, is cause it launched as a mess?? See you refuse to acknowledge the fundamental problem with the service and attack steaming music as the issue and customers not wanting it.

How about you reply to my main point, that AW launched as a mess of buggy software , bad UI , which turned many off it, as as a result Spotify gained .

Your second question. What number should not make it a fail? Ha ha ha are you serious ? you have missed my point entirely , the fail is not about the actual number, it's about launching a service that many view as equal or inferior to what is out there. A fail in my books is Spotify growing as a result of AW launching , where success would see AW grow steadily while Spotify loose subscribers .....

So shall we discuss the issue raised here by many, that AW has some serious usability and bugs issues that hold it back.....and even though apple pushes Apple Music actively to 1 billion active devices , it's competitor Spotify is actually growing , without pushing its service to the same user base. Simple advertising / markerting 101 advantage here.

or would you like to keep telling us 15 million out of 68 is about 22% of the share and it's amazing success ? And the problem is that people don't want to pay for music.

Look I get your point , and I do agree, most do not want to pay for streaming, that is common sense, though you would have to fail at usability to tell me Apple Music is designed well, has good UI, good navigation and does not suffer from bugs. If you honestly believe this, I will understand why my point is lost on you. And understand why you think the user is the problem.

So let's conclude this. You believe Apple Music is fine, and the populace jsut does not want paid steaming ? I believe Apple Music is a mess, even with an awesome advertising platform of a billion active devices it will not grow cause in a service category that is average at best at the moment, with Spotify and AW not offering anything special for people to commit $10 a month. I also believe AW will grow very fast once they sort it out, I like many have our music in iTunes, but are not jumping on AW until apple sorts it out (implementation is holding us back, and not $10 a month)

 

[CaTOAGU]

And yet Spotify says this: "Since Apple Music started we've been growing quicker and adding more users than before."

Correlation is not causation. Since the number of people interested in streaming had been growing anyway, it stands to reason Spotify would be growing at a faster rate since Apple Musics arrival. Apple Music's actual existence may or may not have anything to do with it, there's not enough data to support a conclusion. Once Apple Music has been going for a few years we'll have a better idea.

 

[kentsydney]

most used app on my iPhone and so easy to use.

AM doesnt even have a browser interface. Therefore impossible to consider for listening to music at work

Same here- I love Apple Music- for the price it's a no brainer and the new design looks an improvement but I get on ok with it as it as. Tried Spotify a few years ago but it just didn't grab me

 

[ipedro]

Yikes! Apple sure did compel this iTunes purchaser to the streaming model. I tried out Google Play Music and so far it's everything I ever wanted iTunes / iTunes Match to turn into. It just works. It's in my browser. It's on my phone. The only thing I can gripe about is that the audio quality isn't as good as my ALAC rips. This is coming from someone who typically avoids Google's services outside of web search.

Also, Firefox, Chrome and Opera can't compete on iOS because they are not allowed to.

I didn't say that every iTunes purchaser would move to a streaming service but many are. I'm one of them. I've always believed in paying artists for music so I was an early iTunes user and have a large *paid* library.
Apple Music convinced me that it's the best way to discover new music without the consideration of whether it's worth spending money on. Not having to manage a library and just thinking of a song and have it play seconds later with no friction in between is absolutely the future of music.
The niche market of buying music collections should revert back to physical albums. I think that vinyl is the best candidate.
Most people just want to listen to music, the latest hits in addition to their favourite classics. iTunes provided the best legal alternative but streaming is showing a better way forward that is both a better deal for the listener and a more sustainable model for artists. While some will not move to streaming, I believe that the majority will be sold on the idea that for about the price of an album per month, you get open access to virtually all the music in the world.

 

[DevNull0]

Despite rising users and revenues, Spotify continues to operate at a loss due to expensive royalties and revenue sharing with music label partners. The report claims Spotify's losses rose by 10 percent to $195.7 million (173 million euros) last year, prompting some investors to question the viability of its business model.

I'd love to know what Apple's margins are on the $1.8 billion in revenue they get from Apple Music.

 

[Ries]

I just wanna know why you've referenced Apple and their "1 billion active devices" no less than five times in this thread.

That's what caught my eye.

You really seem focused on that.

Yes... there are 1 billion active Apple devices on Earth... and Apple Music has 15 million paying customers.

Now what?

You obviously think that there aren't enough Apple Music subscribers... since you keep mentioning it.

I asked earlier "How many Apple Music subscribers should there be?" I never got an answer from you.

You did use the word "fail" in relation to Apple Music subscribers and Apple's userbase.

Is it really a fail though? I don't think so. Yet you keep going on and on about it.

If anything is a "fail" it's Google Play Music. There are 3 billion active Android devices out there... and there's no way there are 15 million Google Play Music subscribers.

So maybe cut Apple some slack.

5% is considered a good conversion rate for ads. 2% is standard, average, nothing impressive.

Lets say 80% updated and received the nagging screen for free Apple Music, 15mio/800mio =1.875%. So not a complete failure, but nothing to brag about either.

 

[jonnyb098]

Not sure why so many people say you cant share playlists......If I make a playlist I can share it with anyone of my friends who use Apple Music using the little share icon. What moron started this myth?

I think the proper statement is Apple doesn't allow us to search user created playlists. But if I make one, I can easily message it to a friend.

 

[ktecac]

Nope, music is not a category that works with SiriKit.

Damn well thanks for letting me know. Think it is done intentionally by Apple to keep Music/iTunes as the only 'natural' music player on the iPhone?

Not a huge loss because Siri can't understand anything I'm saying anyway.

 

[Michael Goff]

Damn well thanks for letting me know. Think it is done intentionally by Apple to keep Music/iTunes as the only 'natural' music player on the iPhone?

Not a huge loss because Siri can't understand anything I'm saying anyway.

I think it's done because Apple is slow when it come to anything Siri. It has 6 thing it can hook into. Ride Booking, Messaging, Payments, Photo Search, VoIP, and Workouts are all SiriKit can do.

 

[bushido]

I think it's done because Apple is slow when it come to anything Siri. It has 6 thing it can hook into. Ride Booking, Messaging, Payments, Photo Search, VoIP, and Workouts are all SiriKit can do.

nah they just want to push AM

 

[Michael Goff]

nah they just want to push AM

And it won't play podcasts from third parties to push their own podcast app. Audiobook from audible? I'm guessing they're pushing iBooks. How about streaming video? What are they protecting there?