Spotify Pens Joint Letter Calling Apple 'Harmful' and 'Anti-Competitive,' Claims App Store Ruins Business

[Abazigal]

So, does that mean you feel Apple is indeed being "harmful" to app developers and marketers by its restrictions on alternative app stores, payment systems, sideloading, etc.?

It depends on what exactly they feel harmed by.

For example, iTunes makes it easy for me to terminate an app subscription without having to interact with the app itself (which could be useful if I had previously deleted the app already). If app developers want to get around this so they can earn more by making it harder for users to cancel their subscriptions, then that's a move which really isn't in the best interests of the consumer.

I feel that's one aspect of the conversation that hasn't gotten enough attention - that what's beneficial to developers may not be good for consumers (and to be fair, vice versa). And it's not surprising that companies like Epic and Spotify aren't drawing attention to the less consumer-friendly aspects of their business.

 

[I7guy]

So, does that mean you feel Apple is indeed being "harmful" to app developers and marketers by its restrictions on alternative app stores, payment systems, sideloading, etc.?

No. Apple though should provide a more or less fair platform. That doesn’t mean throw the baby out with the bath water. Apple shouldn’t be required to allow apps to use its infrastructure for free, which is essentially what these new regulations are designed to do, in the same way a bank should not be required to provide 0% loans.

 

[Smartass]

Hey Spotify (who I subscribe to), how about you upgrade your library to hires that youve talked about for so long?

It's getting to the point where while I love your interface (not so much the in car version though), I'm tempted to subscribe to Apple Music or an alternative who will send me higher bit rate files.

Oh boy are you in for a surprise when it comes to interface and apple music(spoiler: It's terrible)

 

[deevey]

I think that many people here don't understand that the 15-30% fees that Apple charges to APP developers and platforms cause the products to cost more to end users.

Reality is... if the fees were mandated to come down. or dare I say it... the walled garden is opened by regulators so people who buy phones can install what they want without Apple surcharge or censorship... well iPhone and iPad owners would be able to get lots more things done and cheaper.

Personally I think a fair price for the developer license would be around 10% of the app price. And no app store placement.

Exactly.

You cannot sign up for Spotify Premium inside the app. You must go to their website. Therefore Spotify is not losing 30% to Apple for the majority of iPhone users.

Now we could argue that Apple's rules saying that a developer can't put a link to their website is wrong... and I tend to agree.

Spotify has figured out how to not pay the 30% to Apple. And they're doing it. Every dollar Spotify receives from their website is theirs. It bypasses Apple and the App Store entirely.


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IMHO Spotify's "real" complaint is that their marketing costs too much without the IAP's, and there's no workaround.

 

[I7guy]

Oh boy are you in for a surprise when it comes to interface and apple music(spoiler: It's terrible)

What’s the issue with the apple Music interface?

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

The fact that they still refuse to integrate with HomePod while crying about the playing field not being level on iOS is baffling

By all means, Apple Music still has the home advantage on many things but if you don’t do everything in your power to offer a good experience to your customers and then claim it’s the platforms fault the experience is sub par you kinda look like a clown

All Spotify cares is the fact that they can’t charge you straight thru the app I suspect.
If Apple were to lift this rule from the developer agreement I suspect Spotify would suddenly be ok with not being able to be a source for music in other apps and other things restricted to Apple Music

 

[MTShipp]

...
As such, I wish Apple would stop waiting to be forced into something and find a way to satisfy the ever-growing call to open the iPhone, while maintaining the option for the users who want Apple’s security.

They could open up web downloads, like on the Mac, and fight this with advertising the benefits of the App Store. They could make this optional with a toggle in the settings App.

I agree. I have not thoroughly thought this through, but I'd like to perhaps see two options when you first power up your iPhone; Apple Ecosystem or Other. And by selecting Other, you lose all software support for problems arising (hardware warranty only) and lose some benefits (perhaps iCloud, etc.) but still get security patches. And if you decide you don't like it and want to come back to Apple, you have to reset/wipe your phone and select the Apple option and set up as new. Of course, there would be some that would cry foul when they brick their iOS or get their data hacked/stolen. I am sure there is fault in my logic here.

But actions have consequences and Apple should make us be 'adult' and make a decision and we would have to live with it or come back to our senses.

 

[OneBar]

Again, Spotify isn't paying the 30% except on a few legacy subscriptions. They stopped allowing IAP several years ago. They aren't paying Apple a significant amount of money.

If that's the case, and I've not personally seen evidence that it is, then they have no argument. If they're not paying the 30% Apple Tax then there's no "harm" being done to customers who have to go to their site to sign up for Premium.

 

[jlc1978]

I feel that's one aspect of the conversation that hasn't gotten enough attention - that what's beneficial to developers may not be good for consumers (and to be fair, vice versa). And it's not surprising that companies like Epic and Spotify aren't drawing attention to the less consumer-friendly aspects of their business.

I suspect that it is even more complex - what will be good for big developers will hurt smaller ones. If allowing sideloading, for example, is required, a small developer who charges a fixed price may see piracy go way up. Spotify can afford to charge zero for the app because it is a subscription service; a small developer may not be able to do the same and so is forced to give away the app and have an IAP fee to limit piracy. Of course, if Apple decides to change pricing structure so that free apps pay for hosting and d/ling, the small developer is faced with upfront costs in order to access Apple's customer base or try to go it alone and create their own store. Spotify, OTOH, can afford those costs while a small developer may not be able to and thus is out of business.

 

[jlc1978]

If that's the case, and I've not personally seen evidence that it is, then they have no argument. If they're not paying the 30% Apple Tax then there's no "harm" being done to customers who have to go to their site to sign up for Premium.

Apple's markup is no more harmful than a B&M store marking up products to make a profit. The whole Apple Tax" argument is an attempt to cloud the issue by making it seem Apple somehow is screwing consumers. There is no good evidence prices would drop ~30% if Apple let developers sell and distribute through an alternative channel and forgo the App Store.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Yeah you are picking the biggest paid artists that would do insane numbers regardless of the platform they are on in comparison to everyone else. Those same numbers you posted would be almost 3x that with Apple Music heck even almost 4x with Tidal. Now of course this isn't taking into account the fan base on either different platform.
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Yeah music royalties aren't paid on a per stream basis so these numbers = useless.

 

[deevey]

What’s the issue with the apple Music interface?

Spotify does, in my opinion, have not only a far better interface. But its algorithm is leaps and bounds above Apple in terms of relevant music discovery - just a shame the audio quality is completely hit and miss.

Crate digging is near impossible on Apple Music!

My music collection is 99% House & Techno, and some Underground Disco and Rock thrown in. Yet I get zero suggestions in any of the same genres? Instead, korean boy bands, Miley Cyrus, Sam Smith etc... I really don't get it.

Spotify had all my like and dislikes down in a week to the point where my playlists are busting at the seams with relevant stuff I actually want to play.

Coverflow was the redeeming feature back in iTunes days - it was incredible to be able flick through your record collection on a touch device.

 

[OneBar]

Apple's markup is no more harmful than a B&M store marking up products to make a profit. The whole Apple Tax" argument is an attempt to cloud the issue by making it seem Apple somehow is screwing consumers. There is no good evidence prices would drop ~30% if Apple let developers sell and distribute through an alternative channel and forgo the App Store.

Indeed they couldn't. All that cost would be put forward for their own infrastructure that they'd have to purchase, man, and maintain. Essentially they don't like being told what to do but want to tell others what to do.

 

[Abazigal]

So Spotify is next to lay off their workforce.

Spotify to trim 6% of workforce in latest tech layoffs

Spotify Technology SA said on Monday it plans to cut 6% of its workforce and would take a related charge of up to nearly $50 million, adding to the massive layoffs in the technology sector in preparation for a possible recession.

www.reuters.com

Looks like they all over-extended themselves during the pandemic by betting on a sales boost that was never sustainable to begin with.