Spotify Pens Joint Letter Calling Apple 'Harmful' and 'Anti-Competitive,' Claims App Store Ruins Business

[Rantipole]

I guess they spend more resources complaining about fairness than being competitive.

And losing competitiveness by wasting gazilions on their crappy podcast product, and podcast "exclusives".

They are only complaining now because they need a way to increase their profits.

And if they succeed, they will share this increase with the musical artists. Riiiiiiiggght.

 

[MrDerby01]

Might be a stretch.. But.. I think if Apple would open up to the Linux community that would take a lot of heat of their back. Seriously.

 

[McTaste]

This is more a general thought than a defense of Apple, but:

It doesn't make sense to me for the word "monopoly" to apply to something one company creates. Of course they control it, they created it.

They also aren't the only popular mobile OS or app store, so if you hit Apple, you should need to hit Google too.

 

[coredev]

Honestly Spotify is completely superior to Apple Music in every way and is dominating it worldwide,I don’t think they need to worry about Apple too much.

Perfect, then they have no case complaining that Apple is ruining their business ;-)

 

[bruinsrme]

But lots of these companies actually do that. Taking just the example of Spotify, they do run their own infrastructure, credit card processing, marketing, advertising, sales tax, websites, CDN, etc. The issue really is that Apple forces you to use their infrastructure. What if all of those companies would be more than happy to bear the burden of those costs, but they literally can't do so because, in order to reach millions of people on iOS, they have to use and pay for the Apple infrastructure? Or, more precisely, what if they already do bear the burden of those costs, and now they have to pay a 30% or 15% royalty for services they really don't need, which becomes a redundant expense? What if, instead of paying 30% or 15% of your revenue, you just paid Apple a fair price to be listed on the App Store and to cover server/infrastructure costs?

You could simply say "ok, screw Apple and their customers" but given the market share of iOS, you're basically cutting off your arm to save your face at that point. If you want to actually get your product in front of all those Apple users, you are forced to use Apple's systems, and pay for them accordingly. It's probably a fair statement that there are few apps or services that would actually cause an iOS user to abandon the Apple platform entirely. Therefore it's also reasonable to say that it is a monopoly for those specific customers.

Imagine if, to distribute an album on CD back in the 2000s, you had to pay Philips 30% of your album sales revenue, because come on, what about all that R&D to develop the CD? Even if you were willing to build your own CD pressing plant, do your own advertising and marketing and distribution, etc. you still had to pay 30% to Philips? And if you didn't want to do that, you'd be unable to sell your album to the millions of people using CD players. Ok, maybe 30% isn't a fair comparison, but assume even 10%. I could actually be completely wrong, but I don't think that CD manufacturers were required to pay royalties based on sales revenue. Maybe there would be a flat rate per disc, but Apple isn't doing a flat rate per download or per purchase, they're doing a percentage.

The music industry was a lot worse back in the days of their media. Music stores made less than 20% on each sale, stores like Walmart could absorb taking a loss through selling other items, hence why music stores started peddling other high mark up merchandise which of course the labels also got a cut on their client related merchandise sales.
Back in the days of music land and Sam goody, a new release would yield about a 10% take for the store the rest went to the label. The cost of a cd was less than $3 for the label to get it to the store.
So yeah the labels were taking a lot more than apple takes.

Phillips royalties actually fetched 1.8¢ for a cd. On top of that they manufactured cds.

But again, the label was getting far more than a 30% cut.

Spotify hasn’t been able to turn a profit yet. But yet they’re constantly growing and increasing revenues. Last year I the tune of nearly $13 billion. Perhaps Spotify needs to start looking within instead of blaming others.

 

[iBluetooth]

I will put my hands up and say I was a very happy Spotify user until I got an Apple Watch about 5 years ago, which only really worked with Apple Music. Same with the HomePod I got later.

If Apple allowed me to use Spotify in the way that Apple Music works with these devices, I would still be a loyal Spotify user. I miss all my friends mixes etc. but I need to be able to use Siri with my devices, leave the house with my watch only and known I'll be able to stream…

It's up to Spotify to make the watch and Homepod apps. They complained they didn't have access before, but now they have the access, but don't want to support it

 

[Patriot24]

Honestly Spotify is completely superior to Apple Music in every way and is dominating it worldwide,I don’t think they need to worry about Apple too much.

Apple Music is likely beginning to eat into Spotify's marketshare in a significant way (Apple Music has ~80M subscribers at last count. A good percentage of them were likely Spotify customers before, or would be in absence of Apple Music), thus the push by Spotify. Growth is all companies care about, and when it starts to wane, litigation and other tactics become the focus.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Spotify has destroyed the ability of many musicians and artists to make a living.

How is that? These artists seemed to do very well on Spotify in 2021:

1. Drake with $199,101,196
2. Bad Bunny with $175,102,764
3. Ed Sheeran with $151,212,693
4. The Weeknd with $137,393,637
5. Justin Bieber with $128,793,928
6. Taylor Swift with $128,432,368
7. Ariana Grande with $128,380,013
8. Eminem with $120,764,069
9. Post Malone with $118,488,889
10. BTS with $112,878,940

I could definitely live on that.

 

[sorgo †]

Honestly I’m all for competition but at this point I hope Netflix and Spotify go the way of the dodo

 

[sorgo †]

How is that? These artists seemed to do very well on Spotify in 2021:

1. Drake with $199,101,196
2. Bad Bunny with $175,102,764
3. Ed Sheeran with $151,212,693
4. The Weeknd with $137,393,637
5. Justin Bieber with $128,793,928
6. Taylor Swift with $128,432,368
7. Ariana Grande with $128,380,013
8. Eminem with $120,764,069
9. Post Malone with $118,488,889
10. BTS with $112,878,940

I could definitely live on that.

Now do independent artists

 

[coredev]

If a developer wants to sell me a product outside of the App Store and I'm happy to buy it using their own payment systems and download it from their website, why should Apple get a cut of that?

They don't.
For example, there is the Kindle app that's free on iOS, with purchases only possible on other devices, so Apple does not get a cut of any revenue Amazon is making on the books. Spotify (and Epic alike) is free to go the same route, not offer products and make the app a free download, like others do.
But what they try here is to get the benefits of a marketplace without playing by it's rules.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Now do independent artists

Right, so independents that practically no one has heard of or has a only a small following is supposed to make a living on 10,000 streams because they're "independent" and if they don't "shame on Spotify" for not paying them enough?

Go to any fast food joint and talk to the workers about not making enough to live on.

 

[AAP8]

They don't.
For example, there is the Kindle app that's free on iOS, with purchases only possible on other devices, so Apple does not get a cut of any revenue Amazon is making on the books. Spotify (and Epic alike) is free to go the same route, not offer products and make the app a free download, like others do.
But what they try here is to get the benefits of a marketplace without playing by it's rules.

I agree - Spotify could take the approach that NetFlix, Disney, and many others have taken - only allow sign ups on computers - basically its a great way for those companies to save the commission - its interesting that a company like Spotify hasn't just done that? Many apps do not allow for purchase in app - so its not that tough.

 

[cthompson94]

How is that? These artists seemed to do very well on Spotify in 2021:

1. Drake with $199,101,196
2. Bad Bunny with $175,102,764
3. Ed Sheeran with $151,212,693
4. The Weeknd with $137,393,637
5. Justin Bieber with $128,793,928
6. Taylor Swift with $128,432,368
7. Ariana Grande with $128,380,013
8. Eminem with $120,764,069
9. Post Malone with $118,488,889
10. BTS with $112,878,940

I could definitely live on that

Yeah you are picking the biggest paid artists that would do insane numbers regardless of the platform they are on in comparison to everyone else. Those same numbers you posted would be almost 3x that with Apple Music heck even almost 4x with Tidal. Now of course this isn't taking into account the fan base on either different platform.

 

[duffman9000]

It's gonna be funny when Apple is forced to change their ways... and these developers get everything they think they want... yet companies like Spotify STILL lose money because streaming music is simply a terrible business to be in.

Then they can no longer blame Apple for their problems.

But wait... didn't Spotify try to get their users to stop paying through the App Store years ago? Here's a story from 2015:

Spotify urges iPhone customers to stop paying through Apple’s App Store

The Apple Music rival sends out an anti-iTunes PSA

www.theverge.com

That was over 7 years ago. So by now the majority of Spotify's customers aren't involved in the 30% cut anyway. In other words... most of their customers are paying Spotify directly from the web... bypassing the App Store entirely.

And Spotify is still the largest music streaming service... by far. Which is contradictory to their claim that Apple makes it difficult for them to grow.

So what are they complaining about?

🤔

They will argue that going to the web to subscribe is too many steps (therefore difficult) and they should be allowed to do it from the AppStore (lol).

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

If Spotify wants to argue Apple is stifling their growth, how about Spotify actually bring new features to their app like Apple Music, namely Hi-res music and the ability to match my own music collection and put it in their cloud so I can access MY MUSIC anywhere? The latter is the main reason I gave up Spotify and switched to AM.

 

[HMI]

If the App Store “ruins business,” then why do they want to be in it?

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Yeah you are picking the biggest paid artists that would do insane numbers regardless of the platform they are on in comparison to everyone else. Those same numbers you posted would be almost 3x that with Apple Music heck even almost 4x with Tidal. Now of course this isn't taking into account the fan base on either different platform.

Doesn't Spotify have a much higher user base than Apple Music or the others? I don't know for sure, but if so, the volume of streams on Spotify would naturally be higher just based on the fact they have a much higher user base..

 

[SpotOnT]

I am still waiting for companies to demand that Sony and Microsoft open up the Playstation and Xbox to sideloading.

 

[JM]

It's gonna be funny when Apple is forced to change their ways... and these developers get everything they think they want... yet companies like Spotify STILL lose money because streaming music is simply a terrible business to be in.

Then they can no longer blame Apple for their problems.

But wait... didn't Spotify try to get their users to stop paying through the App Store years ago? Here's a story from 2015:

Spotify urges iPhone customers to stop paying through Apple’s App Store

The Apple Music rival sends out an anti-iTunes PSA

www.theverge.com

That was over 7 years ago. So by now the majority of Spotify's customers aren't involved in the 30% cut anyway. In other words... most of their customers are paying Spotify directly from the web... bypassing the App Store entirely.

And Spotify is still the largest music streaming service... by far. Which is contradictory to their claim that Apple makes it difficult for them to grow.

So what are they complaining about?

🤔

But, you see, you can’t just point out hypocrisy and short memories and expect anyone to care, you see?

Apple is just evil! Don’t you know? Spotify is angelic.

😏

 

[NEPOBABY]

Judging from the CEO’s activity online he most probably wants to push tokenised scams on Spotify users and that really looks like his unspoken agenda here.

 

[duffman9000]

Honestly Spotify is completely superior to Apple Music in every way and is dominating it worldwide,I don’t think they need to worry about Apple too much.

I agree with that. Despite their superiority Spotify wants to price itself the same as Apple Music. Hence the monetary competitive disadvantage. If Spotify is a superior product why doesn’t it adjust its pricing? Nope, that would require work on their part. They’d rather set a bargain basement and cry about it.

 

[deebinem]

If Spotify wants to argue Apple is stifling their growth, how about Spotify actually bring new features to their app like Apple Music, namely Hi-res music and the ability to match my own music collection and put it in their cloud so I can access MY MUSIC anywhere? The latter is the main reason I gave up Spotify and switched to AM.

You know you can rip your own music and carry it with you so that you can access YOUR MUSIC anywhere, right?

 

[diskrisk]

I am never going to take Spotify seriously about their routinary Apple bashing until they start paying artists at least the same amount Apple does.

 

[duffman9000]

Also, as for user data, I’m glad Apple has guidelines. If not for Apple, Spotify would ask for and require more user data. The only data I want to give companies such as this is “im a paying user”. Don’t use me for ads. If I’m paying for your products then why are you using me for ads?