There are other reasons to use SSD's other than performance. Power draw and durability are two good ones. As for performance I can tell the system boots / shuts down and opens things faster. But, IMO, these are things which don't happen often and don't consume a whole lot of time to begin with. IMO, without a specific reason otherwise, one should not expend a great deal of effort / money to improve these things. With that said SATA SSDs are coming down in price and low capacity versions can be had for a reasonable price. The problem is the iBooks aren't SATA based.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
SSD upgrade for iBook G4
- Thread starter jrsx
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
There are other reasons to use SSD's other than performance. Power draw and durability are two good ones. As for performance I can tell the system boots / shuts down and opens things faster. But, IMO, these are things which don't happen often and don't consume a whole lot of time to begin with. IMO, without a specific reason otherwise, one should not expend a great deal of effort / money to improve these things. With that said SATA SSDs are coming down in price and low capacity versions can be had for a reasonable price. The problem is the iBooks aren't SATA based.
I have a spare SSD here that I tried, but I'd rather have the capacity on my boot drive over the slightly better speeds.
It's the exact opposite for me. The only reason I bought an SSD over a bigger HDD, was the fact that it would be much much faster, and I wouldn't need the extra space since I hardly use any at all.
Last edited:
When you upgrade a G4 in hope of getting noticeable performance improvement you can't fix the main problem: G4.
I had SSD in my Macbook Pro 2008 and I think the biggest difference was that it was silent. If I remember correctly that MBP also had Sata I which crippled performance. I now have it on my PC laptop with Penryn class processor, still I don't know if it makes that much difference, other than being silent. That PC has Sata II so no crippling for that drive. My PC which I donated to my parents had Phenom II X4 965 and 8GB of RAM, with that machine my SSD would probably be in correct class of hardware.
I had SSD in my Macbook Pro 2008 and I think the biggest difference was that it was silent. If I remember correctly that MBP also had Sata I which crippled performance. I now have it on my PC laptop with Penryn class processor, still I don't know if it makes that much difference, other than being silent. That PC has Sata II so no crippling for that drive. My PC which I donated to my parents had Phenom II X4 965 and 8GB of RAM, with that machine my SSD would probably be in correct class of hardware.
Yeah. Guys. I get that speeds will be somewhat bottlenecked, ok?? I don't need to hear it for the 50 billionth time, lol. Until you can see for yourself the difference it makes in a 9 year old machine....
The point being it won't make any tangible difference. If you want to do it you don't need my permission. But then I didn't tell you not to do it.
It did make a tangible difference on my PowerBook. Extracting the same source code tarball for my OS took much less time, as does booting and starting large applications like Gimp.
It depends on what you're doing. If you perform a lot of disk intensive tasks, especially if it involves random I/O, one can see a significant benefit from an SSD. Even on a system with a slow bus. Even a modern traditional hard disk utilizes only a small fraction of bandwidth capability of an Ultra ATA/100 bus when it comes to random disk I/O.
Furthermore your gains may have been the result of replacing a bad hard disk with a new disk. It's possible replacing it with a new, traditional hard disk may have yielded noticeable gains.
In the end you need to do what works best for you. Given the iBooks shipped with, relatively speaking today, small hard disks even the most economical SSD doesn't involve the capacity / speed tradeoff that newer systems face. Likewise prices are dropping all the time thus making higher capacity drives more attractive.
When compared to the stock OEM or nearly any 2.5" PATA drive, any 3.5" SATA drive is faster. Because of this speed difference, there's less gain when using a SSD in a G5 than a Powerbook. The difference between a HDD and SSD on a Powerbook is very noticeable. Even when coming from a top of the line 7200rpm HDD to a low end PATA SSD. There's a big difference in startup, launching apps, swap use, and general file manipulation.
All this assumes the rest of the computer is sufficiently fast. iBooks are considerably old technology. Thus the corresponding benefit is going to be impeded since the SSD is connected to a slow system.
Again: I'm not saying there's no benefit. I'm saying the money is likely better spent on a newer system.
Have you ever personally used a Powerbook or iBook with an SSD? From your statements it doesn't seem like it. They benefit greatly and I would highly suggest your try it.
Someone on my side!
This is the exact point I am trying to make people understand. There are dozens of videos on SSDs in PPC notebooks, Goftrey on his The PowerPC Hub channel for example has a video with benchmarks on a Kingspec IDE SSD vs. the stock 80 GB HDD. You can see the difference even in a video. The benefits of an SSD far outweigh those of a conventional HDD in any computer.
No, I haven't. I saw no reason to buy an SSD to experience marginal gains in performance for such an obsolete system.
----------
Someone on my side!
This is the exact point I am trying to make people understand. There are dozens of videos on SSDs in PPC notebooks, Goftrey on his The PowerPC Hub channel for example has a video with benchmarks on a Kingspec IDE SSD vs. the stock 80 GB HDD. You can see the difference even in a video. The benefits of an SSD far outweigh those of a conventional HDD in any computer.
Benchmarks are essentially useless as they typically do not represent real world usage patterns. The reality is your average user doesn't do a lot of disk intensive tasks and those tasks, such as booting / shutting down the system and loading applications are done infrequently or don't take a whole lot of time to start off with that spending time and money optimizing them typically isn't worth the effort.
Someone on my side!
This is the exact point I am trying to make people understand. There are dozens of videos on SSDs in PPC notebooks, Goftrey on his The PowerPC Hub channel for example has a video with benchmarks on a Kingspec IDE SSD vs. the stock 80 GB HDD. You can see the difference even in a video. The benefits of an SSD far outweigh those of a conventional HDD in any computer.
The only thing that matters here is that you are content with the parts that you ordered and the performance they give you over the original parts. It doesn't matter scientifically as long as you are happy. I do not see such a jump, but maybe that is because I already had a 7200 RPM drive in my PowerBook. Now my MBP on the other hand, that was like night and day difference.
Then why are you stating that there are so little gains? Your opinion in this thread carriers little weight behind it because of your lack of experience in using a SSD in a Powerbook or iBook.
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm stating the gains typically aren't worth it. While I don't have direct experience using an SSD in an iBook I do have significant experience with them on older systems.
Last edited by a moderator:
No it isn't. G5's use desktop hard drives and have a SATA interface. Pentiums and other x86 machines are x86 and not the same as a PowerPC machine, no matter the argument. However, older x86 machines do benefit from a SSD just as much as an iBook or Powerbook. PowerMacs use desktop hard drives and in some cases a SATA drive.
Last edited by a moderator:
What does this mean:
"Pentiums and other x86 machines are x86 and not the same as a PowerPC machine, no matter the argument. However, older x86 machines do benefit from a SSD just as much as an iBook or Powerbook."
So "x86 machines are x86 and not the same as a PowerPC machine no matter the argument" yet "older x86 machines do benefit from a SSD just as much as an iBook or Powerbook"?
So which is it? Is it they're "x86 machines and are not the same as a PowerPC machine, no matter the argument"? Or "x86 machines do benefit from a SSD just as much as an iBook or Powerbook"? Because the latter seems like a "or what the argument" that you said doesn't matter.
And if it's the latter than why is my experience with these older x86 machines not relevant to the discussion? Wow...my head is spinning trying to follow your train of thought.
Last edited by a moderator:
Now your using my words against me without understanding them. My statement outlines that older x86 machines do benefit from using an SSD. Just like Powerbooks and iBooks. However older x86 machines' gains are have a much broader spectrum of gains, because of their more wider range of possible parts, than the narrow spectrum of gains a Powerbook or iBook does. With an older circa 2004 x86 laptop, you may see an (example) gain of 5% or it could be an (example) gain of 40%. With a 2004 iBook or Powerbook, you're very like to reach the same (example) gain of 35% as everyone else, due to the more narrow spectrum of gain. Your experience with this is irrelevant because you've never used a SSD is a machine that has the same internal makeup as an iBook or Powerbook.
Wow, you guys took what I mentioned about that YouTube video on a level that is way too serious. The platform doesnt matter. I said that to make a point.
PATA max speeds: 133MB/sec
Old hard drives are slow in the single digits often for read/write.
A new pata SSD will make MUCH better use of the bandwidth the old pata lanes can provide.
Even a new faster rpm drive can make a big noticeable difference.
It wont make the computer any more powerful if some of you complaining think thats what was meant. Absolutely NOT. All it does is maximize how fast the computer can read and write to files, making the OS "Snappy"
That video I mentioned above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjbrOYybNkk
Keep in mind this is even a super cheap "Kingspec" brand ssd. Hell of a difference even for a cheapo.
This speed difference with how the OS runs "snappier" doesn't matter if its on a mac or a pc or even linux. It all comes down to a slow old tired hard drive verses a ssd that can make the most of the pata lane its connected to. Dont over complicate it, jeez! Lighten up!
I plan to put one of these in my iBook clamshell whenever it arrives :3
Old computer or not, in the end were comparing an hard drive to an SSD. If your saying there will be no noticeable difference, then your basically saying an SSD is not any faster then an old tired hard drive...
PATA max speeds: 133MB/sec
Old hard drives are slow in the single digits often for read/write.
A new pata SSD will make MUCH better use of the bandwidth the old pata lanes can provide.
Even a new faster rpm drive can make a big noticeable difference.
It wont make the computer any more powerful if some of you complaining think thats what was meant. Absolutely NOT. All it does is maximize how fast the computer can read and write to files, making the OS "Snappy"
That video I mentioned above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjbrOYybNkk
Keep in mind this is even a super cheap "Kingspec" brand ssd. Hell of a difference even for a cheapo.
This speed difference with how the OS runs "snappier" doesn't matter if its on a mac or a pc or even linux. It all comes down to a slow old tired hard drive verses a ssd that can make the most of the pata lane its connected to. Dont over complicate it, jeez! Lighten up!
I plan to put one of these in my iBook clamshell whenever it arrives :3
Old computer or not, in the end were comparing an hard drive to an SSD. If your saying there will be no noticeable difference, then your basically saying an SSD is not any faster then an old tired hard drive...
Last edited:
An SSD in a G5 won't be as noticable as it would be in a G4, as he already explained. For instance, if you mow your lawn with a push-mower (the G4), and don't ever empty the grass bag, eventually you will notice a difference in weight. Over time, it will become very heavy to push. Whereas, in a drivable lawn mower (as the G5) even if the grass bag becomes somewhat full, you won't notice a difference because it has more drive power than the push-mower. Just like in a G5, if you have a HDD in it vs. a SSD in it, you won't really notice that much of a difference. In a G4 however, you will notice more of a difference when the bag is empty, because you will drive faster. You may be seeing your experience with an SSD in a G5, and assuming that it will be the same in a G4.
Last edited by a moderator:
Of course the platform doesn't matter. Unfortunately there are those who are attempting to argue otherwise. As for saying an SSD is not any faster than an old tired (that's a key word here) hard drive I want to be clear I have made no such claim. I have merely said the performance gain is, IME, not worth it for the average user. A better solution is to take the money and buy a faster system.Wow, you guys took what I mentioned about that YouTube video on a level that is way too serious. The platform doesnt matter. I said that to make a point.
PATA max speeds: 133MB/sec
Old hard drives are slow in the single digits often for read/write.
A new pata SSD will make MUCH better use of the bandwidth the old pata lanes can provide.
Even a new faster rpm drive can make a big noticeable difference.
It wont make the computer any more powerful if some of you complaining think thats what was meant. Absolutely NOT. All it does is maximize how fast the computer can read and write to files, making the OS "Snappy"
That video I mentioned above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjbrOYybNkk
Keep in mind this is even a super cheap "Kingspec" brand ssd. Hell of a difference even for a cheapo.
This speed difference with how the OS runs "snappier" doesn't matter if its on a mac or a pc or even linux. It all comes down to a slow old tired hard drive verses a ssd that can make the most of the pata lane its connected to. Dont over complicate it, jeez! Lighten up!
I plan to put one of these in my iBook clamshell whenever it arrives :3
Old computer or not, in the end were comparing an hard drive to an SSD. If your saying there will be no noticeable difference, then your basically saying an SSD is not any faster then an old tired hard drive...
Last edited by a moderator:
I have three older Macs that I've put SSDs into:
- The last PowerMac G5 (dual 2.5GHz) with a SATA SSD running Mac OS X 10.5.8
- The last PowerBook G4 (1.67GHz) with an IDE SSD running Mac OS X 10.5.8
- The last Mac OS 9 PowerBook G4 (1GHz Titanium) with an IDE SSD running Mac OS 9.2.2
The older the machine, the worse the physical drive that was there.
Is it worth putting an SSD in, in my opinion? It depends on your goal.
If you want to continue trying to use a PPC Mac in the modern era, with TenFourFox or Linux or whatnot, I don't think it is worth it.
If you want a "retro" piece, to run old software on, old games, old content, etc. then the quality of life improvement was very nice.
I have my laptops (the two and a Late 2011 MBP with an SSD) stacked close together. It's nice to know the lack of spinning drive is a minor on-paper temperature saver.
If either drive fails (it's been a few years in with no problems 24/7 running clamshell mode) I myself would look at the mSATA adapter path - not many companies will make IDE SSDs (mine are from OWC) forever.
I'm not using my machines for day-to-day business or life. I don't think I could handle the slow speeds. But for old stuff, the SSD makes me happier than the HDD.
Hope the helps.
- The last PowerMac G5 (dual 2.5GHz) with a SATA SSD running Mac OS X 10.5.8
- The last PowerBook G4 (1.67GHz) with an IDE SSD running Mac OS X 10.5.8
- The last Mac OS 9 PowerBook G4 (1GHz Titanium) with an IDE SSD running Mac OS 9.2.2
The older the machine, the worse the physical drive that was there.
Is it worth putting an SSD in, in my opinion? It depends on your goal.
If you want to continue trying to use a PPC Mac in the modern era, with TenFourFox or Linux or whatnot, I don't think it is worth it.
If you want a "retro" piece, to run old software on, old games, old content, etc. then the quality of life improvement was very nice.
I have my laptops (the two and a Late 2011 MBP with an SSD) stacked close together. It's nice to know the lack of spinning drive is a minor on-paper temperature saver.
If either drive fails (it's been a few years in with no problems 24/7 running clamshell mode) I myself would look at the mSATA adapter path - not many companies will make IDE SSDs (mine are from OWC) forever.
I'm not using my machines for day-to-day business or life. I don't think I could handle the slow speeds. But for old stuff, the SSD makes me happier than the HDD.
Hope the helps.
- Status