Standard iPhone 15 Models to Lack ProMotion and Always-On Display Features

[steve09090]

Never had pro-motion, don't know what I'm missing. I'll probably buy the cheapest iPhone 16 to replace my cheapest iPhone 11 when it comes out next year.

My partner, on the other hand, uses his phone much more than me to watch videos, and always buys the pro phones. I do envy the better camera he has on his phone, but as I'm not a professional photographer and just take (good, I think!) holiday photos to show family and friends, my phone's camera is good enough.

I used to have an SLR (Canon) so I do know what a better camera can do, I just don't need it and prefer to spend my money elsewhere. Well, actually I don't, I simply work less than most people instead and happily live on less money.

Apple makes pro and non-pro phones and both are popular to differing degrees. It seems they know what they're doing as I've been buying iPhones for over 10 years. iPhone 3GS, iPhone 5S, iPhone 6S (as I got a very good trade-in for a semi-broken 5S!), iPhone 11. Oh, and a 1st gen iPad mini only because the 3GS couldn't do video calling.

Good points.
Also video is watched at about 30 fps so promotion won’t help.
It’s only good for gaming and some people claim they can notice it whilst scrolling. Awesome huh? /sarcasm

I was photographing a waterfall last week. I used my iPhone which was amazing using the live photo>motion blur. Super cool. But it still couldn’t match my Canon DSLR.

 

[Smartass]

Why do people expect Pro features on the non-Pro model. How else can Apple differentiate their different models?

Always on display is no "pro" feature. Its an old and so common tech, that should've been in all iphones already.

 

[Anaron]

We'll have to wait and see. I hope Apple, at the very least, adds support for 90 Hz refresh rate and always-on display to the non-Pro models.

 

[kiranmk2]

“Last year's iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max models used updated low-power display backlighting that supports ProMotion refresh rates that range from 1Hz to 120Hz.”

Im confused, so iPhone 14 pro 120hz is different than 13 pro?

Yes - the iPhone 13 didn't go down to 1 Hz. I think it on'y went down to 10 Hz so always on display would still take too much power in an 13 Pro.

 

[kiranmk2]

Oh, so is it 90Ghz or 120 Ghz? You’ve just moved the goal post. How is the Pixel 7 a mid range phone! It’s just under the Pixel 7 Pro and it doesn’t have 120 GHz.

You've just mentioned the 3 leaders (and you’re wrong in at least one of them), but you said "nearly every mid range phone". So basically, you've just agreed that it’s not a standard.

It’s not embarrassing for me that you can’t prove your own point.

There is a list of phones with 90 Hz screens here: https://gadgetstouse.com/blog/2023/...y/#best_phones_with_90hz_display_refresh_rate

 

[steve09090]

Always on display is no "pro" feature. Its an old and so common tech, that should've been in all iphones already.

It's clearly about battery management and Apple is very clever with how they manage batteries. Streaks above the rest. But sure, it'd be nice. I turned mine off on my watch, where you would think it would be useful.

It is a non-issue for the majority of iPhone users.

What people FAIL to understand (or refuse to admit or acknowledge) is that there is a distinction between Apple's iPhone Pro lineup and the lower models. Simple, if you want those features, pay for it, instead of demanding something for free.

There is a list of phones with 90 Hz screens here: https://gadgetstouse.com/blog/2023/...y/#best_phones_with_90hz_display_refresh_rate

I have 60Hz on my 12 Pro and 120Hz on my iPad Pro. I simply couldn't care less if I had pro-motion on my iPhone. I'd likely turn it off.

I just don't get why it makes so much difference to people. I don't expect you to change your stance.

 

[SmugMaverick]

It's clearly about battery management and Apple is very clever with how they manage batteries. Streaks above the rest. But sure, it'd be nice. I turned mine off on my watch, where you would think it would be useful.

It is a non-issue for the majority of iPhone users.

What people FAIL to understand (or refuse to admit or acknowledge) is that there is a distinction between Apple's iPhone Pro lineup and the lower models. Simple, if you want those features, pay for it, instead of demanding something for free.


I have 60Hz on my 12 Pro and 120Hz on my iPad Pro. I simply couldn't care less if I had pro-motion on my iPhone. I'd likely turn it off.

I just don't get why it makes so much difference to people. I don't expect you to change your stance.

So you've failed with your point and been proven wrong but because you don't care then Apple is fine to rip people off.

iPhone 14 is not a high end phone, it's just priced high end with mid range specs.

iPhone 14/15 should have AoD and 90hz as a minimum at the price Apple charge for that junk.

Time to take off the Apple tinted glasses buddy.

 

[webkit]

And yet, Apple still charges significantly more for phones with less features, even with massive economies of scale on their side. You can’t have it both ways. Apple charges more for less hardware, period. I’m not saying that’s anything new. But with smartphones beyond maturity and the excitement long gone in the smartphone market, people are less and less inclined to settle for less hardware for more money.

That may be true but doesn't seem to be affecting Apple right now. According to Counterpoint, iPhone's annual smartphone market share has been on the rise since 2019. Time will tell where things go from here but any customers who are that dissatisfied with Apple's pricing or model configurations and features should stop buying iPhones and go with an Android instead if they feel it offers a better overall package/value.

 

[Apple_Robert]

This is how you slowly keep eroding your customers’ goodwill, bit by bit.
“Surprise and delight” has turned into “Always underdeliver just a little“.

What Apple is doing is no different than automakers offering different models with different specs. Some people want more perk features than others. What Apple is doing makes sense.

 

[JuicyGoomba]

Pro-motion will always be a Pro only feature, because Apple already put the Pro branding right there. If Apple put Pro motion on a non-pro iPhone, that betrays their own branding and marketing prowess.

The same on iPads and Macbooks, Pro-motion is only on the Pro models. This is quite simple.

The only possibility to get around this is if Apple would use 90Hz instead of 120Hz, and call it Super smooth Retina XDR or something, differentiating the naming from Pro-motion.

The biggest issue is that actual consumers don't care about screen refresh rates. If they did, then there's no way Apple would get away with releasing 60hz devices in 2023, but they will, and they'll sell by the truckload.

Your average consumer isn't going to notice the difference between 90hz and 120hz, so no chance of that either as they'd be cannabalising their own market. Heck, most people I've shown seem to think that a 90hz phone compared to their 60hz is just faster, because they don't really know what they're looking at. It's in the same way that for consumers, bass heavy speakers are seen as being better as they're louder and more powerful, and bigger TVs/cars are better because, well, they're bigger.

I noticed the difference going from 165hz on my monitor to 280hz, it's barely perceptible but it is there. The same difference was seen from 90hz on my Pixel 5 to 120hz on a 13 Pro. The biggest benefit is responsiveness.

Far too many Apple apologists on here claim that high refresh rate is pointless outside of gaming, but that couldn't be further from the truth. The increase in smoothness is purely aesthetics, I get that, but the increase in responsiveness from your general interaction with the OS cannot be dismissed.

And to the contrary, I'm happy to play games at 60hz if I have to, however using a touch screen device at 60hz is disgusting after you've gone higher. It's like dragging your fingers through mud.

 

[school computer user]

Apple being half-a--'d again. Man, for the sake of your fans at least 90hz please.

I honestly don't get it, 11PM = 60hz. Even most flagship androids at the time had 120hz.

What's going on Apple?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It's clearly about battery management and Apple is very clever with how they manage batteries. Streaks above the rest. But sure, it'd be nice. I turned mine off on my watch, where you would think it would be useful.

It is a non-issue for the majority of iPhone users.

What people FAIL to understand (or refuse to admit or acknowledge) is that there is a distinction between Apple's iPhone Pro lineup and the lower models. Simple, if you want those features, pay for it, instead of demanding something for free.


I have 60Hz on my 12 Pro and 120Hz on my iPad Pro. I simply couldn't care less if I had pro-motion on my iPhone. I'd likely turn it off.

I just don't get why it makes so much difference to people. I don't expect you to change your stance.

What you care about and what you use on an iPhone is largely irrelevant. Most iPhone users only use a minor percentage of the features each iPhone carries but this does not mean the product should be lacking a large number of industry standard features because some don’t care if they have them or not. A 60hz display is very low in this day and age and most phones at the higher price points now offer 90-120hz. Apple is known for withholding features to differentiate between their flagship models but consumers are becoming more aware of what to expect from these sorts of products. There’s only so many years Apple can offer lower specs like LCD’s, low refresh rate OLEDs and dual camera systems.

 

[saltukkos]

They’re only standards in top tier phones. For example, the Pixel Pro has 120GHz display, the Pixel 7 does NOT.

Can you provide examples, that show a 'standard' where what you say is true? Because I refute your comment as either mistaken or simply "false commentary".


It's hard to argue a point when what you’re saying is blatantly, and obviously false.


As above, they are NOT standards on cheap Android phones. The Pixel 7 (not cheap) doesn’t have it when the Pixel 7 Pro does!


What features would you NOT include on a non pro (cheaper phone)?

If people are going to make claims and say things like "Standard" and "Cheap Android have these", at least back it up with examples of phones, showing it as a standard, otherwise it is just sour grapes hating on Apple for petty reasons.

Why did you ignore AOD in your post? Every cheap Android phone (even $200 Xiaomi) has AOD and can provide you with 1.5 - 2+ days of battery life (no need for 1Hz to achieve it). Why does apple force you to buy "Pro" to get the same?

 

[seek3r]

“Last year's iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max models used updated low-power display backlighting that supports ProMotion refresh rates that range from 1Hz to 120Hz.”

Im confused, so iPhone 14 pro 120hz is different than 13 pro?

I believe the difference is the bottom floor, with the 14 pro able to go down to 1Hz to make the always-on-display feature work well. I think the 13 pro only ranges from 60hz to 120hz, but I could be mistaken

 

[steve09090]

So you've failed with your point and been proven wrong but because you don't care then Apple is fine to rip people off.

iPhone 14 is not a high end phone, it's just priced high end with mid range specs.

iPhone 14/15 should have AoD and 90hz as a minimum at the price Apple charge for that junk.

Time to take off the Apple tinted glasses buddy.

That's just your opinion and I am not going to argue with someone who can't have an open mind about things. I completely acknowledge that 90Hz is better than 60Hz, but 60Hz is fine for the vast majority of users. I can't even fathom why you refuse to even acknowledge that. Not everyone is a tech snob, buddy.

As far as ripping off? I guess you fail to understand that the people who buy iPhones are happy to buy them, so they are clearly not getting ripped off. They have choices to make, and they can choose to not buy them if they want. Calling iPhones junk is just a ridiculous and uneducated thing to say.

 

[steve09090]

Why did you ignore AOD in your post? Every cheap Android phone (even $200 Xiaomi) has AOD and can provide you with 1.5 - 2+ days of battery life (no need for 1Hz to achieve it). Why does apple force you to buy "Pro" to get the same?

I wasn't trying to ignore it. Sorry. I'll explain in more detail. You may not agree, and that's fine, it's just my opinion that you asked for. I did explain part of my views in an earlier post.

As I said, Always on Display seems awesome for many people but I even turned it off on my watch and I certainly don't want it on my phone. It was even one feature I was looking forward to when I upgraded to the Watch Series 8. Personally, I couldn't care less about it. But that's no reason not to have it, I know. (And I do have it if I want it)

My actual view as to why not, is because Apple have a history as long as history (as every company does) that differentiate models by removing features. Sometimes it's hardware costs, other times it's just to try and get people to buy a higher version (marketing). A good Apple example is the new Apple TV. The base model doesn't have either ethernet or Home Hub. I love my previous version of AppleTV having Home Hub, and I can't see why they would remove it. Marketing would be the answer though. But I am certain that research shows that most people getting an Apple TV for the first time, will connect via wifi and wouldn't use Home Kit. Those who want those will pay the extra $20.

Same with the iPhone. I believe Apple Research shows that people will buy the iPhone <insert base model> and those who want the extra features (Cameras, AoD, Lidar, 120Hz, etc) not included are prepared to pay more. Again, marketing.

Apple is not alone here. Apple stopped including the wired AirPods, then the power brick. Most other major companies have followed them. This is not only an Apple thing. Google failed to upgrade cameras on the Pixel 7 versus the 7 Pro, they have less ram, they have a worse battery, a 90Hz display, a lower res display, etc. It's just a matter of what they choose to leave that changes.

I hope that answers your question. I wasn't ignoring it, and I bet you're sorry you asked 😂

Edit: If AoD is what you want, feel free to buy Xiaomi. I note that the latest Xiaomi 13 Lite (2023) will only run an Android 12, not 13. Interesting. I wonder why they did that. Could it be the hardware or marketing?

 

[saltukkos]

I bet you're sorry you asked

Sorry for what? I just basically said that "it's marketing" and apple just force everyone to spend more and you have to pay if you want regular features, because they artificially "differentiate models by removing features". And it's exactly what everybody is trying to say. It's considered as anti-consumer practices.

 

[steve09090]

Sorry for what? I just basically said that "it's marketing" and apple just force everyone to spend more and you have to pay if you want regular features, because they artificially "differentiate models by removing features". And it's exactly what everybody is trying to say. It's considered as anti-consumer practices.

Sorry that my reply was so long.

I never said it wasn’t marketing. And to suggest it’s anti-consumer practices is just ridiculous. They do it with cars, they do it with TV's, they do it with jewellery ffs. Every phone manufacturer does it, and they pick and choose which features they want to put in or take out. I’d very strongly suggest Apple know what they are doing more than the others because they can have 25% of the market or whatever it is and it’s still 52% of revenue on their $2.4 Trillion value.

The consumer will decide, and they have. Not a crowd of tech heads who don't Actually understand that.

Buy the latest mid range Xiaomi with AOD for $580 that gets released later this month, and keep using the last years Operating system because they stopped you from having the current one.

 

[saltukkos]

Sorry that my reply was so long.

I never said it wasn’t marketing. And to suggest it’s anti-consumer practices is just ridiculous. They do it with cars, they do it with TV's, they do it with jewellery ffs. Every phone manufacturer does it, and they pick and choose which features they want to put in or take out. I’d very strongly suggest Apple know what they are doing more than the others because they can have 25% of the market or whatever it is and it’s still 52% of revenue on their $2.4 Trillion value.

The consumer will decide, and they have. Not a crowd of tech heads who don't Actually understand that.

Buy the latest mid range Xiaomi with AOD for $580 that gets released later this month, and keep using the last years Operating system because they stopped you from having the current one.

Okay, I see your point, but I just don't share same beliefs. For me it looks like Apple has monopoly over the market (because of ecosystem, it's really hard for me as a Mac user to go for android because of iCloud, a lot of synchronization etc.) and they just abuse customers to maximise profit.

Revenue is not always indicates that company does everything right. Will you say that it's ok to violate user's privacy, if company gets revenue growth by selling users data? In case user can't move to another platform (because they already invested in ecosystem) corporation can abuse them and it's what I see with apple.

 

[steve09090]

Okay, I see your point, but I just don't share same beliefs. For me it looks like Apple has monopoly over the market (because of ecosystem, it's really hard for me as a Mac user to go for android because of iCloud, a lot of synchronization etc.) and they just abuse customers to maximise profit.

Revenue is not always indicates that company does everything right. Will you say that it's ok to violate user's privacy, if company gets revenue growth by selling users data? In case user can't move to another platform (because they already invested in ecosystem) corporation can abuse them and it's what I see with apple.

I don’t know that it’s a monopoly. I’m not sure if it was on this thread or another but a poster said that the majority of iPhone users, use a windows machine. I assume that’s true?? I guess Adobe do the same thing where it’s virtually impossible for me to take my Lightroom Library somewhere else, like Capture one. It cannot be exported/imported, so I’m locked in there and would love to change.

You’re right about revenue is not always a good indicator, and clearly market share isn’t. Apple do tend to have great results in Customer Satisfaction (with Samsung only 3% behind). But they’re all high.

I think it’s wrong to get revenue growth by selling user data. Are you suggesting Apple do it? Because I don’t see it, and I’d love to see something that shows this Google & Facebook obviously do. Google openly say they search every gmail email as well. But we allow them to, due to the terms of use! As far as transitioning, both Google & Apple make it easy to move data to the other. I don’t think anyone is forced to stay in an eco system, short of having to purchase new apps, but that goes both ways. If I wanted to change, it’d be easy.

I really don't see the abuse you’re talking about, and I don’t think you’ve demonstrated it? I think it’s more about the walled garden and being restricted on what people can do on their devices because of it. That’s the advantage of Android but with that, you lose many of the good things Apple provide.

To put a line under this from my end, I think we have different perspectives. Apple is not an evil company more than any other. Neither are Samsung, Xiaomi, or even the manufacturing/ operating system arms of Google. (Advertising is though). We’re coming from different view points and I’m happy to end this here. 👍. Good discussion though.

 

[saltukkos]

I think it’s wrong to get revenue growth by selling user data. Are you suggesting Apple do it?

Of course no, I just provide the ridiculous example to argue about revenue as an indicator of "correct".

both Google & Apple make it easy to move data to the other. I don’t think anyone is forced to stay in an eco system, short of having to purchase new apps, but that goes both ways. If I wanted to change, it’d be easy.

For me it's more about features as "Continuity camera", ease of hotspot sharing, password synchronisation, notifications and focus mode synchronisation, tab groups, "continue on Mac", etc. It will be incredibly painful for me to use android. Or even the fact that half of services I sign up last time were with "continue with apple", and it just doesn't work seamlessly outside of ecosystem.

Maybe I don't represent the majority, but people like me are really wired to the ecosystem. I would like to buy an Android phone (for example i'd like to try foldables), but I don't believe it will work for me.

BTW, Thank you for the discussion!

 

[LacrosseChic]

I'm confused as to what exactly will differentiate the base 14(which I'm assuming will still be on sale after the 15 launches) and the new SE that might be coming out in 2024? Other than price of course

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Sorry that my reply was so long.

I never said it wasn’t marketing. And to suggest it’s anti-consumer practices is just ridiculous. They do it with cars, they do it with TV's, they do it with jewellery ffs. Every phone manufacturer does it, and they pick and choose which features they want to put in or take out. I’d very strongly suggest Apple know what they are doing more than the others because they can have 25% of the market or whatever it is and it’s still 52% of revenue on their $2.4 Trillion value.

The consumer will decide, and they have. Not a crowd of tech heads who don't Actually understand that.

Buy the latest mid range Xiaomi with AOD for $580 that gets released later this month, and keep using the last years Operating system because they stopped you from having the current one.

It’s up to manufacturers to listen to consumers though. We can talk about profits all we want but every manufacturer is seeing a decrease in sales. Apple are still making huge profits because the price of the devices has increased to cover any shortfalls, for now. The market trends are suggesting mobile phone upgrades are down as the regularity of people changing devices is much longer than a few years ago. Upgrades would be much more frequent if the price was competitive and the mid tier devices Apple offer were stifled in terms of hardware features. The fact these devices are even referred to as ‘mid tier’ when they carry prices of over €1k is quite ridiculous in itself. More and more of my friends and associates have moved across to Android in the last couple of years and although anecdotal, we can’t deny it’s a competitive market and Apple often aren’t offering the best deals.

 

[Smartass]

It's clearly about battery management and Apple is very clever with how they manage batteries. Streaks above the rest. But sure, it'd be nice. I turned mine off on my watch, where you would think it would be useful.

It is a non-issue for the majority of iPhone users.

What people FAIL to understand (or refuse to admit or acknowledge) is that there is a distinction between Apple's iPhone Pro lineup and the lower models. Simple, if you want those features, pay for it, instead of demanding something for free.

Yeah, but not sticking alwayson display into all of the lineup, when this has become more or less industry standard, is basically like car manufacturers demanding that people pay extra for AC in their cars.

and yes, i know we used to have to pay extra for AC, but that was long time ago - much like invention of always on display

 

[steve09090]

Yeah, but not sticking alwayson display into all of the lineup, when this has become more or less industry standard, is basically like car manufacturers demanding that people pay extra for AC in their cars.

and yes, i know we used to have to pay extra for AC, but that was long time ago - much like invention of always on display

Their research and subsequently their sales suggest you are wrong. I don’t want always on display. The Apple Watch, where you would consider AOD almost necessary, is turned off on my wrist. I certainly wouldn’t have it on my phone.

You would think having updated software on the phone more of a necessity, but try getting that done on Android. Xiaomi are releasing a mid tier ($600) phone this month that has the old version of Android! They even warn you of this on their website.

It’s up to manufacturers to listen to consumers though. We can talk about profits all we want but every manufacturer is seeing a decrease in sales. Apple are still making huge profits because the price of the devices has increased to cover any shortfalls, for now. The market trends are suggesting mobile phone upgrades are down as the regularity of people changing devices is much longer than a few years ago. Upgrades would be much more frequent if the price was competitive and the mid tier devices Apple offer were stifled in terms of hardware features. The fact these devices are even referred to as ‘mid tier’ when they carry prices of over €1k is quite ridiculous in itself. More and more of my friends and associates have moved across to Android in the last couple of years and although anecdotal, we can’t deny it’s a competitive market and Apple often aren’t offering the best deals.

That’s not true though is it? Apples prices on their devices haven’t increased to cover shortfalls. The
latest Mac Mini is even $100 (almost 20%) cheaper than the same level, that was last released. The AppleTV's are cheaper. And given supply constraints and shipping costs, that’d not bad, eh?

I will give you though, that people aren’t upgrading as often now. Part of that is price, but also that most phones, regardless of brand are only incremental upgrades and don’t require it. That’s why they are pushing the camera as the biggest reason so often, as it tends to be the only feature getting big bumps. However there is probably a better case to upgrade an android phone, just to get the latest operating system. Not a problem on iPhone tbh. I have the iPhone 12 Pro, I can’t see me upgrading until at least the iPhone 17.