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Steve Jobs amongst America's Best Leaders
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Yvan256 said:All the illegal and immoral parts of their history...
What big organization is this not a true statement about?
hmmmmm ... let me think... this ia a hard one.
How 'bout the U.S govt.... no... no thats no good.
hmmm ... how 'bout the Catholic Church.... nope not them either.
Let me think about this and get back with an answer
Steve, without a doubt, deserves this honor. He has an amazing past to him, many memories that changed the computer world, has had a fabulous success with the iPod and the Mac is doing great as well. I definitely consider him an inspirational role model.
DavidLeblond said:
Uhm, Apple didn't take Xerox's ideas, they licensed them. BIG difference buddy. So your analogy here doesn't work.
Still, I agree that it's not necessarily fair to call MS and Bill criminals per-se, but I would say that he's a bit ruthless and shady in how he's conducted business over the years.
Yvan256 said:All the illegal and immoral parts of their history...
Not all of their history is bad, but most of it is.
What and you think Jobs is squeeky clean? Just look at how Jobs got his start. He recognised that he knew very little about how computers and technology worked so he latched on to the smartest guy he knew "Steve Wosniak".
He then proceded to negociate for Woz and lied to Woz about the money he was getting for Woz's ideas. It was suppose to be 50-50 but Jobs lied to Woz and ended up with the lions share of the split.
This was how Steve Jobs started, "Do you think the stories are any less ruthless now?" Many, many former Apple design engineers and techs talk about what an "A**hole" Jobs is to work for.
He could care less about what an employee's personal situtation is and more about the "Bottom Line", "What can you do for me to make me money?"
SharksFan22 said:Isn't that what the United States Internal Revenue Service does every year?
*rimshot*
good one!
Hooray for Steve!
Steve may be "tenacious" in business and a tough CEO, but with the Apple successful track record, it seems to work.
I sure wish we saw LOTS more of him - speeches, events, etc. I'm sure he's insanely busy with Apple, but his personal genius and social influence seems to be lost in relative isolation. I'd hate being around press and hordes of fans all the time too, but it'd be nice for us to see the "human" side of Steve more.
As for other people on the list. Kudos to Oprah for her quality accomplishments - a worthwhile talk show that she frequently uses a forum social issues. Not to mention her personal contributions to charity, etc.
Colin Powell. Of course. He is an epitome of a leader in so many ways. I've met him and heard him speak, and I was in awe. I was sorry to see him decline political offices. Condi is also very impressive from what I've seen of her. And Lt. Gen Petraeus... HOOYAH! I'm sorry to see that Tommy Franks didn't make the list though.
See, think of how much more inspiration, motivation, innovation that Steve could generate if he was even a fraction as publicly vocal/visible as Oprah and Powell. And think of how much Apple's market share and recognition would grow. The thought of the possible ripple effects is astounding!
Congrats, Steve.
Steve may be "tenacious" in business and a tough CEO, but with the Apple successful track record, it seems to work.
I sure wish we saw LOTS more of him - speeches, events, etc. I'm sure he's insanely busy with Apple, but his personal genius and social influence seems to be lost in relative isolation. I'd hate being around press and hordes of fans all the time too, but it'd be nice for us to see the "human" side of Steve more.
As for other people on the list. Kudos to Oprah for her quality accomplishments - a worthwhile talk show that she frequently uses a forum social issues. Not to mention her personal contributions to charity, etc.
Colin Powell. Of course. He is an epitome of a leader in so many ways. I've met him and heard him speak, and I was in awe. I was sorry to see him decline political offices. Condi is also very impressive from what I've seen of her. And Lt. Gen Petraeus... HOOYAH! I'm sorry to see that Tommy Franks didn't make the list though.
See, think of how much more inspiration, motivation, innovation that Steve could generate if he was even a fraction as publicly vocal/visible as Oprah and Powell. And think of how much Apple's market share and recognition would grow. The thought of the possible ripple effects is astounding!
Congrats, Steve.
DavidLeblond said:
If you think there's only Microsoft-Apple-Xerox in Microsoft's history, you're missing a huge part of the picture.
Also, the only reason a company can be brought to court for being a monopoly is when they're doing illegal things with it. Yes, Microsoft are criminals (illegal monopoly), and it's not an opinion, that's a fact (use Google if you need to refresh your memory). Not all criminals are rapists or drug dealers, by the way.
And we're not even talking about the earlier days of MS-DOS here, which aren't any better for Microsoft's PR.
digitalbiker said:
I do know Steve Jobs isn't a technical person and that Apple started with him and Steve Wozniak, but I didn't know Jobs lied to Woz. What happened exactly, I don't know.
digitalbiker said:
Except that last time I checked, being an ******* and a perfectionnist weren't crimes. And yes I did hear about those stories. I also heard about people always complaining, and Steve's view on "doing more than just what's necessary", and that's one of his strength and what makes OS X what it is today. "Think different" isn't always positive for the people around you, especially if they're used to their comfy "minimum work and thinking" positions.
nagromme said:Condoleezza Rice.... and the CEO of Fox News
Scary, huh? I have no idea why they made the list - only in America!
w00master said:
Yeah, but you shouldn't get to be a philanthropist by stealing and cheating. The plain fact is he got his wealth by creating the windows monopoly and violating anti-trust laws to grow it into the empire it is today. So, that kinda negates a lot of the good work he does now. While I'm glad he does do the good work he does, it would be nice if he didn't get the $$ by stealing it.
Yvan256 said:
I am pretty sure being an ******* is also not one of the qualities of the top 25 leaders.
w00master said:
I would be very surprised if it were based on his philanthropy, laudable though it is. I think it is his leadership of Microsoft that put him there.
pubwvj said:
You can't seriously mean what you said there. I worry about the level of intelligence of some people here when they post things like this. Likening the practices of one of the world's most philanthropic people to those who rape, pillage and murder. Seriously, have a word with yourself!
DavidLeblond said:
Sure, but only under coercion from Microsoft. Y'see, MS was one of the first application developers for the new Mac back in '84-'85. Apple knew it had to have apps run on it to sell the machine, and MS wanted to break into applications, since all their previous attempts to do so were flops. (up until that point they only wrote programming languages and DOS, which the also stole) So MS starts making apps for the Mac and then at the last minute Bill threatened not to ship the products unless Apple licensed some of the codebase of the GUI to MS. Apple reluctantly agreed to this (unfortunately), which made their case in court later against MS when they started BLATANTLY ripping off the Mac, impossible to win, because they had agreed to license some portion of the code in the past. Billy boy used a loophole get away with theft, pure and simple.
Look, make no mistake about it- most if not nearly everything that MS has done has been by copying others. They rarely do original work, unless you count Microsoft Bob. Now THERES a classic example of Microsoft innovation at work
Very cool to read this news.
I never had known that Bill Gates ran a foundation, what is pretty human and cool. For what i could understand, and I don't know if it's entirely true, he and his wife are very focused in helping people, and this is very important.
If a lot of others big players in the global economic games start acting like Gates, we will share a better world.
It is cool either to read aobut north americans most important leaders, and the kind of leader considered in the article. I'm sure that a brazilian magazine would put a completely different rank about local leaders... Other values, other votes.
Hugs.
I never had known that Bill Gates ran a foundation, what is pretty human and cool. For what i could understand, and I don't know if it's entirely true, he and his wife are very focused in helping people, and this is very important.
If a lot of others big players in the global economic games start acting like Gates, we will share a better world.
It is cool either to read aobut north americans most important leaders, and the kind of leader considered in the article. I'm sure that a brazilian magazine would put a completely different rank about local leaders... Other values, other votes.
Hugs.
This is a list compiled by a business publication of people who displayed the skills necessary to lead a large organization. Both Jobs and Gates have certainly shown the capacity to take bold steps on behalf of their respective companies.
Neither man is the next Mother Teresa. That's not what this is about.
Please tell that to the US Department of Justice, which charged Microsoft with violating the Sherman Antitrust Act, and the US District Court for the District of Columbia, which found Microsoft guilty.
And do be sure to mention that to the US Court of Appeals, which continues to oversee the settlement of the above charges to this day.
Neither man is the next Mother Teresa. That's not what this is about.
DavidLeblond said:
Please tell that to the US Department of Justice, which charged Microsoft with violating the Sherman Antitrust Act, and the US District Court for the District of Columbia, which found Microsoft guilty.
And do be sure to mention that to the US Court of Appeals, which continues to oversee the settlement of the above charges to this day.