Steve Jobs at Apple Town Hall Meeting, Google, Adobe, Next iPhone, 2010 Macs and More

[Wolfpup]

Seeing how buggy and slow Flash is only on OS X it really is "can't".

What happened to Adobe fixing that? Hasn't it happened yet? The Windows one is better than ever-the current version even has GPU accelerated video playback on Nvidia GPUs, with non-video GPU acceleration coming later.

I know back maybe 8 years ago I'd have stability issues with anything fancy on OS X. Ironically couldn't play this really funny OS X comic on OS X.

Of course that was long before Adobe bought Macromedia too, so between that and Adobe talking about bringing about parity I'd think it would be better by now (?)

 

[xgman]

Like it or not, Flash is widely used on mainstream web sites. I think it is incredible that Apple has decided they don't like it so we can't get it. It is very arrogant on their part.

 

[SpinThis!]

Without Flash, we would still be watching Web video - somehow...

How quickly we forget the early days of the web. In order to put video up, developers would put up competing formats of the same video... eg Windows Media, QuickTime, and Real were popular. The better sites let the user choose which they wanted but that also created confusion since most users didn't know what codec(s) they had. And all were embedded with non-standard markup. Flash changed this and essentially helped standardize on 1 (albeit proprietary) format.

Wouldn't HTML evolve much more quickly if we didn't have Flash as a crutch? I'd wager yes.

No. Flash was born out of a necessity. The problem was HTML wasn't evolving fast enough. The w3c standards committees took years to formalize and decide what's best for the web; Flash allowed designers to do things that wasn't possible a the time. Flash video actually helped sites like YouTube and Hulu to succeed.

 

[cliveren13]

Apple

It seems if steve jobs were to **** in a cup and give alot of u guys u would eat it, dont forget apple failed once before and if they keep locking out others because it suits them they will be back to where they were before i love my apple products but i want openness and is as closed as it can be. flash works great on my mac, iwatch hulu and any flash enabled website that i want

 

[cmaier]

No. Flash was born out of a necessity. The problem was HTML wasn't evolving fast enough. The w3c standards committees took years to formalize and decide what's best for the web; Flash allowed designers to do things that wasn't possible. Flash video actually helped sites like YouTube and Hulu to succeed.

The stagnation of HTML had everything to do with the lack of browser competition, which is no longer a problem.

 

[Wolfpup]

I think it's pretty obvious that most of us don't particularly love flash, but that at the same time it's a necessity if you actually want full access to the web.

 

[Xian Zhu Xuande]

Does anyone see why the investors booted him out of his own company the first time?

No kidding. Apple is clearly going under. Just look at those terrible sales numbers...

Bringing Jobs back was they worst thing they've ever done.

[/sarcasm]

 

[DakotaGuy]

Well the next step would be to remove flash support from OS X. How? No clue, but as you all are saying gotta move forward with everyone kicking and screaming. They did it with USB.

If Apple wants to change the industry and they have the guts to do it they need to completely remove flash support from the next release of OSX.

 

[Wolfpup]

If Apple wants to change the industry and they have the guts to do it they need to completely remove flash support from the next release of OSX.

Can't do it unless they close regular OS X too...something at this point I wouldn't doubt they'd LIKE to do :-/

 

[igorleandro]

See the problem there is not Blu-Ray, it is Samsung, they can't make a player to save themselves, their DVD players were crap, and their Blu-Ray players are crap.

And don't compare one companies player implementation to Apple, Apple would have to write their own software, so Steve saying the software is messy, is just saying that Apple can't work out how to do it, ie it competes with what we are doing, and beats us as well.



Again, a Samsung issue



The piracy protection was pushed by two companies Fox, and Disney, hmm Disney...



How do you get a 40GB movie on a 8GB disc without compressing the hell out of it?

Hey jfanning!

I didn't post that just based on my experiences. Five of my friends also complain about those things, even though they have Sony / Phillips / JVC players.

Maybe it is the implementation of those discs, maybe it is the quality of the media, maybe a lot of variables, but in the end, the user experience is bad. And as far as I know Apple, that is their main focus, or not? =)

 

[WilliamLondon]

Which way did you vote?

Ouch, polls like this have got to hurt. I can see why apple fanboys are putting great efforts into backing up the iPad, just look at the poll:

I suggest we get these 27K people to sign their names and vow *never* to buy this great product without undergoing some humiliating and public act of demanding our forgiveness for being so incredibly stubborn in their misunderstanding of a true glimpse into the future.

This merely shows that the 27K most upset people in the world went onto this website to vent their frustrations and demonstrate their narrow mindedness, and the other nearly 7 billion other people in the world that would find this useful wouldn't waste their time answering such a stupid question, along the line of "would water in a desert be something you would find of value?"

 

[ikir]

Indeed bluerays are just a new "old" tech. I can live without it, anyway i could buy one in the empty optical sot on my MacPro.
About Flash, Jobs is right, it sucks on everyplatform and it is atumor for niche platforms too. I hope that all will implement HTML5 or just Adobe star coding better or open source flash completely.

 

[nextdimension]

What is Apple's HTML5 IDE anyway? Is the animation package feature competitive with Flash CS4? If not, how long will it take? Less than 2 years?

 

[Wolfpup]

Hey jfanning!

I didn't post that just based on my experiences. Five of my friends also complain about those things, even though they have Sony / Phillips / JVC players.

Maybe it is the implementation of those discs, maybe it is the quality of the media, maybe a lot of variables, but in the end, the user experience is bad. And as far as I know Apple, that is their main focus, or not? =)

Zero issues with Blu Ray on either my Sony stand-alone player or my Playstation. Almost no issue on my PC (except PowerDVD 9 has screwed up on a few extras on Star Trek Season 2 discs. Not sure why, but at least the main stuff works fine.)

 

[jfanning]

Hey jfanning!

I didn't post that just based on my experiences. Five of my friends also complain about those things, even though they have Sony / Phillips / JVC players.

Maybe it is the implementation of those discs, maybe it is the quality of the media, maybe a lot of variables, but in the end, the user experience is bad. And as far as I know Apple, that is their main focus, or not? =)

I have two Sony blu-ray players, both work fine, loading time is around 20 seconds or so, nothing to write home about. As far as user experience, you put the disc in your player, you wait, up comes the movie, pretty good experience. The only thing new is firmware updates, and I don't think that is a bad thing, I wish I could have got firmware updates for my Samsung DVD player, that thing is so buggy In fact the bad experience someone will get with Blu-Ray and Apple, is finding out they can't use lossless audio with Apples current crippled hardware.

 

[Wolfpup]

I have two Sony blu-ray players, both work fine, loading time is around 20 seconds or so, nothing to write home about. As far as user experience, you put the disc in your player, you wait, up comes the movie, pretty good experience. The only thing new is firmware updates, and I don't think that is a bad thing, I wish I could have got firmware updates for my Samsung DVD player, that thing is so buggy In fact the bad experience someone will get with Blu-Ray and Apple, is finding out they can't use lossless audio with Apples current crippled hardware.

Come to think of it, my second gen Toshiba DVD player isn't compatible with every DVD...so so far my Sony Blu Ray player is actually doing better.

Crazy about the firmware updates. My TV I bought a year ago even had firmware updates! It's honestly not much to think refrigerators may soon :-/

 

[SpinThis!]

What is Apple's HTML5 IDE anyway? Is the animation package feature competitive with Flash CS4? If not, how long will it take? Less than 2 years?

The only "IDE" Apple has is XCode. That's actually part of the problem... Apple doesn't have any good tools for doing <canvas> animation in HTML5 graphically, neither does Adobe. You have to do it procedurally via code. You would think there would be at least a rudimentary <canvas> export option in Motion but there's not. Believe it or not, Adobe Flash CS5 looks promising in this respect.

<canvas> is actually an Apple designed extension they proposed to the w3c but until Microsoft supports it in Internet Explorer, it's a non starter. As soon as that happens, you'll see more sites start making tools for it as well. It's a big chicken and the egg problem right now. Same with HTML5's <video> element.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Steve Jobs is acting like an old school Bill Gates.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Steve Jobs is acting like an old school Bill Gates.

No he isn't. I never once liked any of Microsoft's products. Microsoft is successful because they became a "must have", rather than a "want to have" product company. I *want* to have Apple products, I *have* to have Microsoft products. Two men, two philosophies, nothing alike.

 

[ViViDboarder]

If Apple wants to change the industry and they have the guts to do it they need to completely remove flash support from the next release of OSX.

The thing is that Flash is here and it's widely integrated... If they don't like Adobe's version then they need to write their own player or come up with some easy way for website to make the jump to HTML5. The thing is, without incentive, no company is going to take the time to convert their entire environment over.

No he isn't. I never once liked any of Microsoft's products. Microsoft is successful because they became a "must have", rather than a "want to have" product company. I *want* to have Apple products, I *have* to have Microsoft products. Two men, two philosophies, nothing alike.

To you... Just because you don't *want* Microsoft products doesn't mean others don't. In fact, lots of people rather like Microsoft products. I will give you that they are pretty much a "must have" product company, but I think you should realize that many people, even given the choice, still choose Windows.

 

[LagunaSol]

In fact, lots of people rather like Microsoft products.

I'd wager vastly more tolerate Microsoft products than like them.

I will give you that they are pretty much a "must have" product company, but I think you should realize that many people, even given the choice, still choose Windows.

True. Also true is the fact that most people who choose Windows are ignorant of any other choices available to them.

 

[Nym]

If Apple wants to change the industry and they have the guts to do it they need to completely remove flash support from the next release of OSX.

I strongly doubt Apple would ever pull something like that off; but if they do it that will be the day I'll be switching back to Windows.

No matter how many Macs, iPods or iPhones I've had throughout the years (and precisely for that fact) I put Apple in the highest of standards and I have no problem with criticizing their decisions or eventually abandoning the platform(s) that they built I in case there is a better alternative.

I would love an iPad, but there's just no way it would be usable in my household without Flash in the browser.

The devices I use are tools, nothing more, nothing less. And if a tool doesn't fit the job...

 

[WilliamLondon]

To you... Just because you don't *want* Microsoft products doesn't mean others don't. In fact, lots of people rather like Microsoft products. I will give you that they are pretty much a "must have" product company, but I think you should realize that many people, even given the choice, still choose Windows.

We are talking about the men and the statement was that Steve Jobs is acting like Bill Gates. They are nothing like one another. These two men have run their companies entirely differently and approached product development entirely differently. They are nothing like one another. Nothing.

You're arguing Pepsi vs. Coke. I'm saying the philosophy behind these products is entirely different, and the two men behind Microsoft and Apple are entirely different, approach products differently, and deliver to the market different experiences in products. They are not the same.

I would go so far as to say that without the *must have* elements associated with Microsoft products, this company would be nothing compared to what it is today.

 

[SpinThis!]

In fact, lots of people rather like Microsoft products.... many people, even given the choice, still choose Windows.

I would imagine the quote "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't" rings true for a lot of people subconsciously though... People know Windows, they're guaranteed to know someone who they turn for help, and they don't feel like relearning a brand new OS so their choice is essentially made up for them whether they know it or not. Heh, and Windows fanboys call Apple fanboys "sheep"...

 

[Wolfpup]

No he isn't. I never once liked any of Microsoft's products. Microsoft is successful because they became a "must have", rather than a "want to have" product company. I *want* to have Apple products, I *have* to have Microsoft products. Two men, two philosophies, nothing alike.

There are a *LOT* of people that like Microsoft's products. Windows is my preferred OS. Office my preferred suit (except 2007 is worse than 2003 IMO, and not clear cut better than OpenOffice anymore...though 2003 still is :-/ ).

While I used to drool over Apple's products, they're just too limited for me to really get excited about anymore. And I really dislike the direction they took their hardware, and how controlling they are with software.